Was the Protoss in the right to complain about the Terran winning? Please don't vote until you watch the replay, but the gist of what happened is that it was a pretty close game, and then he started to lag and said that I should leave the game because I don't deserve the win. After the game he continued to PM me while I was watching the replay, and when I told him to go watch the replay he put me on ignore, and then continue to PM me...
I'll admit that I was not in the best position to win the game, but I was fairly calm and comfortable with my position and pretty optimistic about winning. Here is what I was thinking at that point in the game: Economy He never got a 3rd base up and running, so at this point he is 100% all-in, right now or he loses. His natural expansion has ~500 minerals left in it, and mine has ~8k minerals left being mined by 30+ scvs (not to mention 2 OCs for muling, 3 mules just landed as he left
Army He has ~12stalkers and ~2colossus ~5zealots, and if he waits for his probes to mine out his natural he can get 4-5 more gateway units or 1 colossus (long build time even chronoboosted, and time is a big issue here for him) I have 12 marauders with more on the way out of 6 barracks, 3 vikings and more on the way out of 2 starports (1reactored) and 8 medivacs
Positioning My army is together in my base with the exception of a medivac about to drop 4 marauders in his main/snipe any expansion he tries to put up, another reason he must all in me now, or lose later. My structures are going to be pumping reinforcements directly to my defensive position at my natural. His army is spread out across the map, which will allow me time to reinforce my army. He has no proxy pylon, and about to have ZERO income anyway...
Upgrades He has 1/1 ups... vs my 3/2 ups
So, watch the replay, consider what I've posted, and vote and please give some feedback about how you think the game would have turned out. Personally I felt his comments were pretty arrogant. I mean look at the post game graph, just looking at the graph would you say either player was in an advantage?
Also, I'd gladly take some constructive criticisms about my play, it was a pretty sloppy game, but I had a plan to get a 3rd and keep him on 2 bases and I think it worked out alright, so if you have some suggestions I'll take em. But if you're just going to be rude about how bad I am, keep it to yourself please.
Poll: Who would have won the game?
Clearly the Protoss (146)
75%
Clearly the Terran (20)
10%
Too close to call (14)
7%
Probably the Protoss (7)
4%
Probably the Terran (7)
4%
194 total votes
Your vote: Who would have won the game?
(Vote): Clearly the Protoss (Vote): Clearly the Terran (Vote): Probably the Protoss (Vote): Probably the Terran (Vote): Too close to call
A Protoss complaining about the Terran winning? Well first off, go watch the results from MLG Dallas, and i'm guessing he is not past 3k masters, just me.
On April 08 2011 06:22 BitterStriFe wrote: A Protoss complaining about the Terran winning? Well first off, go watch the results from MLG Dallas, and i'm guessing he is not past 3k masters, just me.
I can't download the replay by the way.
Did you even read the post? The protoss was complaining about lag.
Can you guys just shut up and watch the replay? If you can't download the replay, then just say so (and shut up).
On April 08 2011 06:32 MrGingerKid wrote: I feel like telling people to shut up in your thread is on the best way to convince others to watch the replay...just sayin.
idk, I see a lot of voting and very few comments suggesting they have actually watched the replay. I've already accepted that the poll isn't going to be accurate, but people tend to read threads that have pictures, replays, and polls... so why not.
On April 08 2011 06:32 MrGingerKid wrote: I feel like telling people to shut up in your thread is on the best way to convince others to watch the replay...just sayin.
Guy being bad mannered was not the OP, just similar looking name.
On April 08 2011 06:32 MrGingerKid wrote: I feel like telling people to shut up in your thread is on the best way to convince others to watch the replay...just sayin.
Guy being bad mannered was not the OP, just similar looking name.
Ah, my fault. I apologize.
I did just watch the replay though and I am sorry to say that toss had the upper hand at the end. While his natural was running low his army composition was much stronger than yours. Even though he was about to run out of money I can almost assure you he was about to attack your front which would've ended the game right away. You had 11 marauders 4 of which were on the other side of the map, 2 more marauders and a viking in production.
The colossus, zealots, and stalkers would've cleaned up the marauders in no time so the vikings wouldn't even have been able to kill one colossus. If you pulled all your scvs you may have barely held, but then ironically he would have more income than you.
Sorry but I'm going to have to go with toss.
EDIT: Just looked at the upgrade situation and the battle may have been closer than I thought, but I still think the colossus would've cleaned up nicely. 2nd EDIT (lol): he had a colossus and enough resources to warp in 5 or so more units.
On April 08 2011 06:22 BitterStriFe wrote: A Protoss complaining about the Terran winning? Well first off, go watch the results from MLG Dallas, and i'm guessing he is not past 3k masters, just me.
I can't download the replay by the way.
Did you even read the post? The protoss was complaining about lag.
Can you guys just shut up and watch the replay? If you can't download the replay, then just say so (and shut up).
1) You say in the replay description that he is BM and complains how he should have won. I don't see any BM coming from him whatsoever, and he was more than rightfully aggrieved because of what happened.
2) I'm not sure you've even watched the replay yourself, he literally only has to A move to the back of your base and it's over. I have no idea why you've posted this on here, it's not even close.
3) For the life of me I can't understand why you couldn't have worked out for yourself that you had CLEARLY lost this game, and the poll will only make you look ridiculous.
4) On the other hand, I don't know too many people that would just leave when they know they have a chance at a disconnect win. Very few, but if you actually watch the replay and don't get caught up in the 'amount of mining bases' and 'upgrade advantage', you can clearly see it's more than over at that point, and therefore must be able to see why he's pissed off.
5) He's not nearly as pissed off as others would be, you've made him out to be the bad guy when he's clearly not.
On April 08 2011 06:32 MrGingerKid wrote: I feel like telling people to shut up in your thread is on the best way to convince others to watch the replay...just sayin.
Guy being bad mannered was not the OP, just similar looking name.
Ah, my fault. I apologize.
I did just watch the replay though and I am sorry to say that toss had the upper hand at the end. While his natural was running low his army composition was much stronger than yours. Even though he was about to run out of money I can almost assure you he was about to attack your front which would've ended the game right away. You had 11 marauders 4 of which were on the other side of the map, 2 more marauders and a viking in production.
The colossus, zealots, and stalkers would've cleaned up the marauders in no time so the vikings wouldn't even have been able to kill one colossus. If you pulled all your scvs you may have barely held, but then ironically he would have more income than you.
Sorry but I'm going to have to go with toss.
EDIT: Just looked at the upgrade situation and the battle may have been closer than I thought, but I still think the colossus would've cleaned up nicely. 2nd EDIT (lol): he had a colossus and enough resources to warp in 5 or so more units.
Well thank you for watching the replay, now I know at least one of the votes is legitimate!
However, I don't think you're giving enough credit for 3/2marauders with a personal medivac each and their ability to shoot kite gateway units, especially when they just come streaming in one at a time. Now if he took the time to group up and attack, yes his army probably would have beat mine, but that time spent preparing for the attack would have allowed me to produce more units. And again if he did wait for the 3rd colossus and a round of warp-ins, and then walking them over to my base, I'm pretty sure my ability to produce units at that point in the game was handedly ahead of his.
I watched it. Though it was still close to even I voted Clearly the Protoss for a few reasons:
- It was 25 minutes into the game (favoring the Toss) - his army was stronger - he was ahead in supply and 16 of your supply was medivacs, meaning not going to be terribly helpful when the fight happens - Your drop wouldn't have done much, it was just going to be an a-click big battle ending and the toss would have won.
On April 08 2011 07:05 nuMi22 wrote: 2) I'm not sure you've even watched the replay yourself, he literally only has to A move to the back of your base and it's over. I have no idea why you've posted this on here, it's not even close.
If he A moves to my base the way his army is set up, I will 1shot each unit as it comes streaming in lol... easily.
It was 16 stalkers, 5 zealots, and 2 colossus vs 6 marauders at your base. You would have lost... No doubt about it... He doesn't even need anymore econ, you can't hold any more by pulling scvs like you've done all game and after you inevitably lose your natural, you will have no income at all just like him except he has a standing army and map control. In the inevitable battle at your natural, if your marauders even kill 2 zealots ill be very surprised indeed. The vikings won't kill anything because you have nothing to tank the stalkers for them...
Did you guys honestly watch the replay? The Protoss was not that much bigger than the Terran. If the Terran pulled his scv's he would have just barely won the battle with those medivacs.
On April 08 2011 07:13 KevinIX wrote: Did you guys honestly watch the replay? The Protoss was not that much bigger than the Terran. If the Terran pulled his scv's he would have just barely won the battle with those medivacs.
He had a big enough army to roll straight into the T's main. His economy being trashed was irrelevant.
Sorry, when someone says "literally BLANK" I usually take them literally.
You're taking it for me meaning that I expect him not to group his units together first? I'm sorry but you know exactly what I meant and you're just being a total troll. Read over the thread, everyone is telling you how over the game was and by a long way. You're just clutching at straws, why don't you just accept that he would easily have won? It was a ladder game, do you honestly have that much pride?
Is this some sort of ban trap for the mods to see who actually watches the replays? It's pretty clear protoss is going to win. Terran has 11 maras, 8 medivacs, 3 vikings as his effective fighting force vs protoss with 5 zeals, 2 collosi, 16 stalkers. Zeals will tank mara shots while stalkers and collosi proceed to roll your army. Medivacs can't heal things that are being 1-shot. And about that post-game graph, you have so much of your army value tied up in those medivacs, a full 800/800 and they're going to be nigh on useless.
Your armor is what really matters here, because your attack upgrades won't matter a big deal vs the zealot shield wall up front. And taking 3 damage from stalkers and collosi won't be that big a deal (it will be a big deal vs the zealots but they're not going to be doing the damage)
Don't come in here asking for opinions from people and then immediately refute what they say with oh but upgrades. Your upgrades meant nothing against that army comp. If it was an all stalker army I'd say you have a good chance. Unfortunately, b/c of the zealot wall, your lack of marines and vikings, and overabundance of army value in medivacs, you will 100% lose this. Were this a TSL match the refs would 100% give the win to the protoss player.
lol He was just about to win. You were BM to not just gg. You had like 11 mauraders. Who cares if theyre upped, zeals are going to just tank and win. This was so clearly one sided.
The protoss definitely looked like he was going to take it, but it's not 100% certain, for a number of reasons. First of all, you were obviously both pretty terrible, so anything could have happened. Second, the upgrades.
Anyway, he had a huge advantage, but it was not 100% clear who would win. Perfectly played, his 2-colossi stalker-zealot mix would eat through your army no prob.
On April 08 2011 07:25 StallingHard wrote: Is this some sort of ban trap for the mods to see who actually watches the replays? It's pretty clear protoss is going to win. Terran has 11 maras, 8 medivacs, 3 vikings as his effective fighting force vs protoss with 5 zeals, 2 collosi, 16 stalkers. Zeals will tank mara shots while stalkers and collosi proceed to roll your army. Medivacs can't heal things that are being 1-shot. And about that post-game graph, you have so much of your army value tied up in those medivacs, a full 800/800 and they're going to be nigh on useless.
Your armor is what really matters here, because your attack upgrades won't matter a big deal vs the zealot shield wall up front. And taking 3 damage from stalkers and collosi won't be that big a deal (it will be a big deal vs the zealots but they're not going to be doing the damage)
Don't come in here asking for opinions from people and then immediately refute what they say with oh but upgrades. Your upgrades meant nothing against that army comp. If it was an all stalker army I'd say you have a good chance. Unfortunately, b/c of the zealot wall, your lack of marines and vikings, and overabundance of army value in medivacs, you will 100% lose this. Were this a TSL match the refs would 100% give the win to the protoss player.
This is exactly what I'm talking about though, the zealots are nowhere near my base and zealots are not exactly fast units.
Everyone keeps saying "oh if the zealots tank the damage while the nicely grouped and formed stalker/colossus army rolls in behind them, your army is gonna get raped." While this is a true statement, in order for it to occur would have taken time, time with which I could have reinforced pretty quickly.
I'm only trying to argue that this was not a clear victory for the protoss, that's all, and I'm glad you're not a TSL match ref.
On April 08 2011 07:25 StallingHard wrote: Is this some sort of ban trap for the mods to see who actually watches the replays? It's pretty clear protoss is going to win. Terran has 11 maras, 8 medivacs, 3 vikings as his effective fighting force vs protoss with 5 zeals, 2 collosi, 16 stalkers. Zeals will tank mara shots while stalkers and collosi proceed to roll your army. Medivacs can't heal things that are being 1-shot. And about that post-game graph, you have so much of your army value tied up in those medivacs, a full 800/800 and they're going to be nigh on useless.
Your armor is what really matters here, because your attack upgrades won't matter a big deal vs the zealot shield wall up front. And taking 3 damage from stalkers and collosi won't be that big a deal (it will be a big deal vs the zealots but they're not going to be doing the damage)
Don't come in here asking for opinions from people and then immediately refute what they say with oh but upgrades. Your upgrades meant nothing against that army comp. If it was an all stalker army I'd say you have a good chance. Unfortunately, b/c of the zealot wall, your lack of marines and vikings, and overabundance of army value in medivacs, you will 100% lose this. Were this a TSL match the refs would 100% give the win to the protoss player.
This is exactly what I'm talking about though, the zealots are nowhere near my base and zealots are not exactly fast units.
Everyone keeps saying "oh if the zealots tank the damage while the nicely grouped and formed stalker/colossus army rolls in behind them, your army is gonna get raped." While this is a true statement, in order for it to occur would have taken time, time with which I could have reinforced pretty quickly.
I'm only trying to argue that this was not a clear victory for the protoss, that's all, and I'm glad you're not a TSL match ref.
Even if he didn't have the zealots or colossus, it would have been a clear victory. That's really how much you are overestimating marauders :/
On April 08 2011 07:25 StallingHard wrote: Is this some sort of ban trap for the mods to see who actually watches the replays? It's pretty clear protoss is going to win. Terran has 11 maras, 8 medivacs, 3 vikings as his effective fighting force vs protoss with 5 zeals, 2 collosi, 16 stalkers. Zeals will tank mara shots while stalkers and collosi proceed to roll your army. Medivacs can't heal things that are being 1-shot. And about that post-game graph, you have so much of your army value tied up in those medivacs, a full 800/800 and they're going to be nigh on useless.
Your armor is what really matters here, because your attack upgrades won't matter a big deal vs the zealot shield wall up front. And taking 3 damage from stalkers and collosi won't be that big a deal (it will be a big deal vs the zealots but they're not going to be doing the damage)
Don't come in here asking for opinions from people and then immediately refute what they say with oh but upgrades. Your upgrades meant nothing against that army comp. If it was an all stalker army I'd say you have a good chance. Unfortunately, b/c of the zealot wall, your lack of marines and vikings, and overabundance of army value in medivacs, you will 100% lose this. Were this a TSL match the refs would 100% give the win to the protoss player.
This is exactly what I'm talking about though, the zealots are nowhere near my base and zealots are not exactly fast units.
Everyone keeps saying "oh if the zealots tank the damage while the nicely grouped and formed stalker/colossus army rolls in behind them, your army is gonna get raped." While this is a true statement, in order for it to occur would have taken time, time with which I could have reinforced pretty quickly.
I'm only trying to argue that this was not a clear victory for the protoss, that's all, and I'm glad you're not a TSL match ref.
Even if he didn't have the zealots or colossus, it would have been a clear victory. That's really how much you are overestimating marauders :/
No it wouldn't have, lol. The scv-marauder mix would have done really well if not for the zealots and colossi.
I mean, the zealots are going to have trouble getting through the scvs -- assuming he pulls them.
1) Why would you even post this, who really cares who would of won? If it's so important for you to know who is better, challenge him to a custom game and duke it out, rather than trying to make him look like an idiot, which obviously failed, towards the liquid community. 2) You ask for feedback, yet when you get feedback you seem to feel.. attacked. When you ask for someones opinion, and they give their opinion, you are not in your right to turn around and say 'your opinion is false, for I had upgrades!'. 3) Quit the trolling, and that goes to spbelky more than anyone.
I think he was going to realize he was going dry on his natural without any other bases, warp in 5 sentries and then converge on your natural and win. He's in a commanding lead, I can't see how he would have lost the game.
On April 08 2011 07:25 StallingHard wrote: Is this some sort of ban trap for the mods to see who actually watches the replays? It's pretty clear protoss is going to win. Terran has 11 maras, 8 medivacs, 3 vikings as his effective fighting force vs protoss with 5 zeals, 2 collosi, 16 stalkers. Zeals will tank mara shots while stalkers and collosi proceed to roll your army. Medivacs can't heal things that are being 1-shot. And about that post-game graph, you have so much of your army value tied up in those medivacs, a full 800/800 and they're going to be nigh on useless.
Your armor is what really matters here, because your attack upgrades won't matter a big deal vs the zealot shield wall up front. And taking 3 damage from stalkers and collosi won't be that big a deal (it will be a big deal vs the zealots but they're not going to be doing the damage)
Don't come in here asking for opinions from people and then immediately refute what they say with oh but upgrades. Your upgrades meant nothing against that army comp. If it was an all stalker army I'd say you have a good chance. Unfortunately, b/c of the zealot wall, your lack of marines and vikings, and overabundance of army value in medivacs, you will 100% lose this. Were this a TSL match the refs would 100% give the win to the protoss player.
This is exactly what I'm talking about though, the zealots are nowhere near my base and zealots are not exactly fast units.
Everyone keeps saying "oh if the zealots tank the damage while the nicely grouped and formed stalker/colossus army rolls in behind them, your army is gonna get raped." While this is a true statement, in order for it to occur would have taken time, time with which I could have reinforced pretty quickly.
I'm only trying to argue that this was not a clear victory for the protoss, that's all, and I'm glad you're not a TSL match ref.
I agree with you, only because in the entire game he never had his zealots in front. The fact is he should probably have won in at least two different spots, at the very beginning when he had 2 stalkers and a zealot outside your base and just sat there, and his first real attack. He lost both of those battles because of poor micro, or lack any attack for the first. It seems possible that the same would happen in this final battle as well and that you did have a decent chance of winning, had you pulled all of your SCVs.
My favourite part was the protoss's 84 harvesters on two bases. Seriously, he was so awful that anything could have happened. I'm not sure anyone can foresee how this game would have ended.
11 marauders with 8 medivacs, 3 rines, and 3 vikings...ish....right? Against 16 stalkers, 2 colossi, and a handful of zealots+maybe sentries if he warps them in. Terran in the lead in upgrades. If Toss does it right I think it'd break you on the next attack, but it didn't look to me like he was organized at all when the lag hit. If toss loses that attack Terran wins the game...
Voted too close to call, but I'd probably lean Protoss if I had to choose.
On April 08 2011 07:25 StallingHard wrote: Is this some sort of ban trap for the mods to see who actually watches the replays? It's pretty clear protoss is going to win. Terran has 11 maras, 8 medivacs, 3 vikings as his effective fighting force vs protoss with 5 zeals, 2 collosi, 16 stalkers. Zeals will tank mara shots while stalkers and collosi proceed to roll your army. Medivacs can't heal things that are being 1-shot. And about that post-game graph, you have so much of your army value tied up in those medivacs, a full 800/800 and they're going to be nigh on useless.
Your armor is what really matters here, because your attack upgrades won't matter a big deal vs the zealot shield wall up front. And taking 3 damage from stalkers and collosi won't be that big a deal (it will be a big deal vs the zealots but they're not going to be doing the damage)
Don't come in here asking for opinions from people and then immediately refute what they say with oh but upgrades. Your upgrades meant nothing against that army comp. If it was an all stalker army I'd say you have a good chance. Unfortunately, b/c of the zealot wall, your lack of marines and vikings, and overabundance of army value in medivacs, you will 100% lose this. Were this a TSL match the refs would 100% give the win to the protoss player.
This is exactly what I'm talking about though, the zealots are nowhere near my base and zealots are not exactly fast units.
Everyone keeps saying "oh if the zealots tank the damage while the nicely grouped and formed stalker/colossus army rolls in behind them, your army is gonna get raped." While this is a true statement, in order for it to occur would have taken time, time with which I could have reinforced pretty quickly.
I'm only trying to argue that this was not a clear victory for the protoss, that's all, and I'm glad you're not a TSL match ref.
I'm looking at the replay as we speak, do I need to go make a whole custom map just to prove my point? Again, what is the point of coming in and asking a question if you're just going to shoot down every differing opinion by saying the same thing over and over again.
You have ONE marauder on the way and ONE viking. Assuming it takes those zealots a mighty thirty seconds to reach the battle, that also means he's going to be getting a THIRD collosi joining the battle before he pushes.
So you're getting 1 marauder and 1 viking in the time it takes him to get 1 collosi. I'm still going with protoss 100% And TSL would be lucky to have me as a ref.
Edit: I'd also like to point out that the TSL refs assume the players aren't mentally handicapped, as you seem to be assuming the protoss player was. So my argument would hold up in a TSL decision as well.
On April 08 2011 07:37 Marksel wrote: 1) Why would you even post this, who really cares who would of won? If it's so important for you to know who is better, challenge him to a custom game and duke it out, rather than trying to make him look like an idiot, which obviously failed, towards the liquid community. 2) You ask for feedback, yet when you get feedback you seem to feel.. attacked. When you ask for someones opinion, and they give their opinion, you are not in your right to turn around and say 'your opinion is false, for I had upgrades!'. 3) Quit the trolling, and that goes to spbelky more than anyone.
1)I can't challenge him to another game, he PM'd me after the game basically saying grats on the free win you didn't deserve, and then put me on ignore. I'm not trying to make anyone look like an idiot. 2)I didn't make a single reply about upgrades other than the original post... what? 3)Facepalm
You keep saying his army is all spread out and zealots are nowhere near your base... it takes a few seconds to move across the map. In that time even IF those 2 maruaders you were building finished, his army still smashes yours.
On April 08 2011 07:25 StallingHard wrote: Is this some sort of ban trap for the mods to see who actually watches the replays? It's pretty clear protoss is going to win. Terran has 11 maras, 8 medivacs, 3 vikings as his effective fighting force vs protoss with 5 zeals, 2 collosi, 16 stalkers. Zeals will tank mara shots while stalkers and collosi proceed to roll your army. Medivacs can't heal things that are being 1-shot. And about that post-game graph, you have so much of your army value tied up in those medivacs, a full 800/800 and they're going to be nigh on useless.
Your armor is what really matters here, because your attack upgrades won't matter a big deal vs the zealot shield wall up front. And taking 3 damage from stalkers and collosi won't be that big a deal (it will be a big deal vs the zealots but they're not going to be doing the damage)
Don't come in here asking for opinions from people and then immediately refute what they say with oh but upgrades. Your upgrades meant nothing against that army comp. If it was an all stalker army I'd say you have a good chance. Unfortunately, b/c of the zealot wall, your lack of marines and vikings, and overabundance of army value in medivacs, you will 100% lose this. Were this a TSL match the refs would 100% give the win to the protoss player.
This is exactly what I'm talking about though, the zealots are nowhere near my base and zealots are not exactly fast units.
Everyone keeps saying "oh if the zealots tank the damage while the nicely grouped and formed stalker/colossus army rolls in behind them, your army is gonna get raped." While this is a true statement, in order for it to occur would have taken time, time with which I could have reinforced pretty quickly.
I'm only trying to argue that this was not a clear victory for the protoss, that's all, and I'm glad you're not a TSL match ref.
I'm looking at the replay as we speak, do I need to go make a whole custom map just to prove my point? Again, what is the point of coming in and asking a question if you're just going to shoot down every differing opinion by saying the same thing over and over again.
I'm only pointing out the flaws in their logic. If anyone wants to counter my responses feel free.
You have ONE marauder on the way and ONE viking. Assuming it takes those zealots a mighty thirty seconds to reach the battle, that also means he's going to be getting a THIRD collosi joining the battle before he pushes.
I was literally in the process of spamming my barracks structures for more units as the game ended, so the idea that I would only be reinforces with one marauder and one viking is pretty short sighted, similar to your overall perception it seems.
So you're getting 1 marauder and 1 viking in the time it takes him to get 1 collosi. I'm still going with protoss 100% And TSL would be lucky to have me as a ref.
Again, shortsighted, and I guess if TSL wants shortsighted refs you should be first on their list
Edit: I'd also like to point out that the TSL refs assume the players aren't mentally handicapped, as you seem to be assuming the protoss player was. So my argument would hold up in a TSL decision as well.
I never assume any sort of mental handicap, I only take the information as it is presented to me and react appropriately. If you watch the Protosses playstyle throughout the game, it's not like he was about to suddenly make really good decisions and micro me to death. This is a thread about what would have happened if he hadn't dropped, NOT what would happen if you were playing for the protoss, with all this knowledge AFTER THE FACT.
I'm sure he has had a few wins from people d/cing etc... I would just move one and forget about this match. Your putting to much mental energy into his BM
Dude...even if the stalkers and zealots did nothing but stand there and tank marauder shots and dont' even attack the dps of the two colossi are more than enough to rip through your 8 marauders. Additionally, 3 vikings aren't gonna do crap. The have no chance to take out even one of the colossi before they wipe your ground army. The game was pretty clearly won by Protoss. Not to mention that if he really wanted to he could've distance mined while containing you and still would've been able to win that way.
It wasn't close at all. The only way you would've won is if the moved his entire army into your base. If you're really skeptical then just make a custom game with those exact units and a-move them into one another. I can guarantee you that Protoss would win.
I can tell you that the protoss was not the best. You were pretty much ahead of him the whole time. When he went for the second push and failed, that is when you should have applied more pressure.
First off, your scv production was horrendous. Sorry to say, but if you look at the 14 minute mark, he was 25 probes ahead of you. From 10-14 you had no gas at all. And look at your energy count for your orbital commands. Seriously the MULE is the gamebreaker for terrans. At the 15 minute mark, you had 150 energy on both orbitals. That is 6 mules.... Since each mules "cost" 320 minerals I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, but 320 x 6 = 1920 minerals. That makes a huge difference. In addition, you got supply
Also, why did you choose to build your bunker then cancel it? First, you should be placing it near the ramp. It was actually your fault there when you moved out to see what was going on which let the protoss see what you had. If you had not done that, and made a bunker near the ramp in the first place, you would have held it easily considering you can repair it, and he had no sentries.
You also overmade medivacs. For such a small army you had in the late game, you should have spent more of your income into making more units, not medivacs.
As well, use your scans if you're not going to use your mules. Seriously, if you scanned his base, you would have seen colossi. However, because you did not, you didn't see the robo facility. Therefore, you couldn't make any vikings. Colossi will destroy an MMM ball without vikings in it.
Around the 15 minute mark as well, you were oversaturated in your main. Oversaturation means scvs not doing anything. You should have transferred to your 3rd.
On April 08 2011 07:48 aike wrote: You keep saying his army is all spread out and zealots are nowhere near your base... it takes a few seconds to move across the map. In that time even IF those 2 maruaders you were building finished, his army still smashes yours.
As I said earlier, I was in the process of building more marauders and 3 mules were about to ram in to my OC, so I probably would have queued up a total of 5 marauders and another viking or two, and maybe 2 marines (which is perfect considering my 5techrax and 1reactorrax).
So let's take your inaccurate scenario and put some facts in to it. Marauders take 30 seconds to build. It takes a zealot more than 30 seconds to run from where he was to my base. He would have needed to take atleast a few seconds to group up properly, unless he wanted to stream in his zealots one at a time.
On April 08 2011 08:06 Axel.Bowex wrote: I can tell you that the protoss was not the best. You were pretty much ahead of him the whole time. When he went for the second push and failed, that is when you should have applied more pressure.
First off, your scv production was horrendous. Sorry to say, but if you look at the 14 minute mark, he was 25 probes ahead of you. From 10-14 you had no gas at all. And look at your energy count for your orbital commands. Seriously the MULE is the gamebreaker for terrans. At the 15 minute mark, you had 150 energy on both orbitals. That is 6 mules.... Since each mules "cost" 320 minerals I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, but 320 x 6 = 1920 minerals. That makes a huge difference. In addition, you got supply
Also, why did you choose to build your bunker then cancel it? First, you should be placing it near the ramp. It was actually your fault there when you moved out to see what was going on which let the protoss see what you had. If you had not done that, and made a bunker near the ramp in the first place, you would have held it easily considering you can repair it, and he had no sentries.
You also overmade medivacs. For such a small army you had in the late game, you should have spent more of your income into making more units, not medivacs.
As well, use your scans if you're not going to use your mules. Seriously, if you scanned his base, you would have seen colossi. However, because you did not, you didn't see the robo facility. Therefore, you couldn't make any vikings. Colossi will destroy an MMM ball without vikings in it.
Around the 15 minute mark as well, you were oversaturated in your main. Oversaturation means scvs not doing anything. You should have transferred to your 3rd.
I think Protoss was ahead. He needed to push soon though. If he had pulled his whole army back to defend the drop, for example, Terra would have been in a much better position. One cannot say who would have won (unless it is like 5 base vs 1 base), only, who had the advantage. If Toss attacks with his whole army, he likely wins. If Terra can somehow delay the push for a couple of minutes, or kite perfectly, terra would be favored.
You seem pretty adamant about the game, so I went back and took another look. It doesn't look like the terran is going to have much time. The protoss player selected all his units and is rallying them to the northeastern ramp of the lower gold. Terran has 2 Marauders and 1 Viking just started, and had money for 2 marines or 1 marauder. With 4 marauders across the map in a medivac, I don't see how terran holds the attack that was coming in the next 20-30 seconds, including the supplemental 3 marauders+1 viking. As long as the protoss gets his units into a ball, as he was doing, he wins.
edit: This assumes the protoss cleans up your drop with his popping 3rd colo and a zealot or stalker warped in.
It wasn't close at all. The only way you would've won is if the moved his entire army into your base. If you're really skeptical then just make a custom game with those exact units and a-move them into one another. I can guarantee you that Protoss would win.
Yes, if I make a custom game and throw 7 marauders and 7 medivacs vs 16 stalkers 5 zealots and 2 colossus, I'm not a fucking idiot, I know which army is going to win.
However, people like you that fail to acknowledge that moving your units around the map takes TIME.
On April 08 2011 08:12 pwncakery wrote: You seem pretty adamant about the game, so I went back and took another look. It doesn't look like the terran is going to have much time. The protoss player selected all his units and is rallying them to the northeastern ramp of the lower gold. Terran has 2 Marauders and 1 Viking just started, and had money for 2 marines or 1 marauder. With 4 marauders across the map in a medivac, I don't see how terran holds the attack that was coming in the next 20-30 seconds, including the supplemental 3 marauders+1 viking. As long as the protoss gets his units into a ball, as he was doing, he wins.
Getting his army in to a ball would have taken well over 30 seconds, by which time I would have had 5+marauders finished.
The clip you just posted showed us nicely that it would take about 25 seconds for the furthest zealot at the time the replay ended to reach the point where red was rallying his army. At that point he can attack into blue's natural, which would take about 8-12 seconds to hit, depending on where blue was keeping his army. So we would have 7+5 reinforcing marauders, and 3+1 reinforcing vikings against 16/5/2 stalk/zeal/colo. I'm actually a zerg player. While it was pretty obvious that 16/5/2 >7/3, are they still > 12/4?
On April 08 2011 08:23 pwncakery wrote: The clip you just posted showed us nicely that it would take about 25 seconds for the furthest zealot at the time the replay ended to reach the point where red was rallying his army. At that point he can attack into blue's natural, which would take about 8-12 seconds to hit, depending on where blue was keeping his army. So we would have 7+5 reinforcing marauders, and 3+1 reinforcing vikings against 16/5/2 stalk/zeal/colo. I'm actually a zerg player. While it was pretty obvious that 16/5/2 >7/3, are they still > 12/4?
5:50 - time zealot reaches natural B - 5:16 - time zealot starts moving A 0:34 - time it takes zealot to run from point A to point B
also its 12/4/7/3 Mara/Vikin/Medi/Marine (3:2) and possibly 31scvs (0:2) vs 16/5/2 Stalker/Zealot/Colossus (1:1)
On April 08 2011 08:29 Retgery wrote: Wait what happened? I watched the replay and it goes from T`s 3rd getting destroyed and then some rage and a blank screen?
BNet has been shitting out all day and people have been dropping from games, which is why I'm not laddering right now and browsing TL instead.
On April 08 2011 08:23 pwncakery wrote: The clip you just posted showed us nicely that it would take about 25 seconds for the furthest zealot at the time the replay ended to reach the point where red was rallying his army. At that point he can attack into blue's natural, which would take about 8-12 seconds to hit, depending on where blue was keeping his army. So we would have 7+5 reinforcing marauders, and 3+1 reinforcing vikings against 16/5/2 stalk/zeal/colo. I'm actually a zerg player. While it was pretty obvious that 16/5/2 >7/3, are they still > 12/4?
Yes, mainly because zealots and stalkers can tank a lot of damage, the colossi would end up cleaning up (3 colossi as well from what I understand of the situation), and there's not enough vikings to drop the colossi fast.
On April 08 2011 08:23 pwncakery wrote: The clip you just posted showed us nicely that it would take about 25 seconds for the furthest zealot at the time the replay ended to reach the point where red was rallying his army. At that point he can attack into blue's natural, which would take about 8-12 seconds to hit, depending on where blue was keeping his army. So we would have 7+5 reinforcing marauders, and 3+1 reinforcing vikings against 16/5/2 stalk/zeal/colo. I'm actually a zerg player. While it was pretty obvious that 16/5/2 >7/3, are they still > 12/4?
5:50 - time zealot reaches natural B - 5:16 - time zealot starts moving A 0:34 - time it takes zealot to run from point A to point B
also its 12/4/7/3 Mara/Vikin/Medi/Marine (3:2) and possibly 31scvs (0:2) vs 16/5/2 Stalker/Zealot/Colossus (1:1)
Right. I knocked 10 seconds off because red was rallying to the northeast ramp of the gold expo, then said another 8-12 seconds to hit the nat (depending on blue army location). Given the upgrades and those numbers, who wins?
On April 08 2011 08:23 pwncakery wrote: The clip you just posted showed us nicely that it would take about 25 seconds for the furthest zealot at the time the replay ended to reach the point where red was rallying his army. At that point he can attack into blue's natural, which would take about 8-12 seconds to hit, depending on where blue was keeping his army. So we would have 7+5 reinforcing marauders, and 3+1 reinforcing vikings against 16/5/2 stalk/zeal/colo. I'm actually a zerg player. While it was pretty obvious that 16/5/2 >7/3, are they still > 12/4?
Yes, mainly because zealots and stalkers can tank a lot of damage, the colossi would end up cleaning up (3 colossi as well from what I understand of the situation), and there's not enough vikings to drop the colossi fast.
If he waits for the 3rd colossus, I'm gonna have an entire extra cycle of units.
On April 08 2011 08:23 pwncakery wrote: The clip you just posted showed us nicely that it would take about 25 seconds for the furthest zealot at the time the replay ended to reach the point where red was rallying his army. At that point he can attack into blue's natural, which would take about 8-12 seconds to hit, depending on where blue was keeping his army. So we would have 7+5 reinforcing marauders, and 3+1 reinforcing vikings against 16/5/2 stalk/zeal/colo. I'm actually a zerg player. While it was pretty obvious that 16/5/2 >7/3, are they still > 12/4?
5:50 - time zealot reaches natural B - 5:16 - time zealot starts moving A 0:34 - time it takes zealot to run from point A to point B
also its 12/4/7/3 Mara/Vikin/Medi/Marine (3:2) and possibly 31scvs (0:2) vs 16/5/2 Stalker/Zealot/Colossus (1:1)
Right. I knocked 10 seconds off because red was rallying to the northeast ramp of the gold expo, then said another 8-12 seconds to hit the nat (depending on blue army location). Given the upgrades and those numbers, who wins?
its 12+ seconds (zealots are only 2.25 speed) and who wins? that's a good question =\
On April 08 2011 08:23 pwncakery wrote: The clip you just posted showed us nicely that it would take about 25 seconds for the furthest zealot at the time the replay ended to reach the point where red was rallying his army. At that point he can attack into blue's natural, which would take about 8-12 seconds to hit, depending on where blue was keeping his army. So we would have 7+5 reinforcing marauders, and 3+1 reinforcing vikings against 16/5/2 stalk/zeal/colo. I'm actually a zerg player. While it was pretty obvious that 16/5/2 >7/3, are they still > 12/4?
5:50 - time zealot reaches natural B - 5:16 - time zealot starts moving A 0:34 - time it takes zealot to run from point A to point B
also its 12/4/7/3 Mara/Vikin/Medi/Marine (3:2) and possibly 31scvs (0:2) vs 16/5/2 Stalker/Zealot/Colossus (1:1)
Somehow you have 5 more marauders then you really have but the toss doesn't have the colossus 25 secs away from finishing or another few gateway units warped in? Even in that situation where the toss apparently sits around waiting for his zealot, the toss army still wins in the unit tester, even if the some of the stalkers are shooting at medivacs due to complete a-move.
You could have came back if you stablized your dominance in bases(his natural almost mined out, yours not) But 1. He was confident in his army size 2. His army was an assload bigger than yours. If he decided to attack(and again he's confident he could crush you) he would own you. Sorry, Terran would have lost. 11 marauders with medivacs do not beat 16 stalkers, 2cols, and 5zealots
On April 08 2011 08:23 pwncakery wrote: The clip you just posted showed us nicely that it would take about 25 seconds for the furthest zealot at the time the replay ended to reach the point where red was rallying his army. At that point he can attack into blue's natural, which would take about 8-12 seconds to hit, depending on where blue was keeping his army. So we would have 7+5 reinforcing marauders, and 3+1 reinforcing vikings against 16/5/2 stalk/zeal/colo. I'm actually a zerg player. While it was pretty obvious that 16/5/2 >7/3, are they still > 12/4?
Yes, mainly because zealots and stalkers can tank a lot of damage, the colossi would end up cleaning up (3 colossi as well from what I understand of the situation), and there's not enough vikings to drop the colossi fast.
If he waits for the 3rd colossus, I'm gonna have an entire extra cycle of units.
Even if you had 20 marauders with 8 medivacs and 4 vikings, his army of 16 stalkers, 5 zealots and 3 colossi is still way stronger than yours because of the colossus count, superior upgrades or not. You might have survived had you pulled all your probes, but he could have pulled every single probe he had since he knew he was mined out (which I would have done) and just ended you.
And I'm not even counting in any other warp gate units he could have warped in. Just that +1 colossi vs 9! additional marauders of yours, he still would have won.
Edit: And in a worker w worker battle. His workers would tank a shitton of marauder shots whereas the colossi would melt all of yours in a couple of rounds. Win goes to him.
Everyone seems to be convinced that he could just group his shit together and kill me, I challenge anyone here to play me in a unit test game and do: 2Colossus 16 Stalker 5 Zealot (1:1) vs my 12 Marauder 3 Marine 7 Medivac 31 SCV (3:2)
I used the unit tester, and the Terran wins with almost everything left over except the marines and most SCVs die. Yes, it was both just A-moving with zeals in front and a stim, so it's not very accurate, so I'd like someone to help me test this please. But I'm pretty sure I'm right... and if I'm not right, it would be a damn close fight, that my 2nd wave of reinforcements could possibly clean up.
If you want to argue that he could have waited for the Colossus and pulled his Probes, you're right, he could have but, if you watched the replay, my feel of it was he would have attacked with the force he had.
SPBelky.782
Aside from testing that unit comp in game and then maybe posting a video of it, I'm done trying to defend myself on these forums. On a typical day I think I'm a pretty nice guy, but right now I'm being a dick to pretty much everyone who responds to this and I don't want to do it anymore. However, if anyone wants to post constructive stuff like Axel did, that'd be great.
Wow, this is pretty funny, my friend told me about this thread and I read almost the entire thing and couldn't stop laughing, I mean was it really that big of a deal you needed to make a thread on tl about this dude? I mean it was annoying because this is what happened, yesterday the servers were shutting down on the NA server, and it gave updates like "20 minutes before server shut down" "10 minutes, 5 minutes etc" when our game was going on, so at the very end, I knew the servers were gonna shut down soon so I was about to attack him, I mean I probably would have attacked him anyway even if the servers weren't shutting down, but I thought he was just being a dick and not leaving the game when it was clearly over so he could maybe get a free win from me if I disconnected, and I did disconnect and thats why I said those things, I mean I didn't really care all that much...it was just annoying knowing I was JUST ABOUT to win and then the server shut down haha, I was just kinda like "whatever thats lame, but its not that big of a deal" I mean it was just a ladder game, not the TSL or something. I just find it hilarious you actually made a thread about this, it seems like you cared WAYYYY more than I did haha, and I like how you make it seem like you werent bm to me after the game, I am not one for "starcraft drama" I could care less about you, or that game. You're just making a fool out of yourself with this thread, which is just priceless.
On April 09 2011 05:53 YueY. wrote: Wow, this is pretty funny, my friend told me about this thread and I read almost the entire thing and couldn't stop laughing, I mean was it really that big of a deal you needed to make a thread on tl about this dude? I mean it was annoying because this is what happened, yesterday the servers were shutting down on the NA server, and it gave updates like "20 minutes before server shut down" "10 minutes, 5 minutes etc" when our game was going on, so at the very end, I knew the servers were gonna shut down soon so I was about to attack him, I mean I probably would have attacked him anyway even if the servers weren't shutting down, but I thought he was just being a dick and not leaving the game when it was clearly over so he could maybe get a free win from me if I disconnected, and I did disconnect and thats why I said those things, I mean I didn't really care all that much...it was just annoying knowing I was JUST ABOUT to win and then the server shut down haha, I was just kinda like "whatever thats lame, but its not that big of a deal" I mean it was just a ladder game, not the TSL or something. I just find it hilarious you actually made a thread about this, it seems like you cared WAYYYY more than I did haha, and I like how you make it seem like you werent bm to me after the game, I am not one for "starcraft drama" I could care less about you, or that game. You're just making a fool out of yourself with this thread, which is just priceless.
is quite a bit different from op's version, who is telling the truth?
By build order. Clearly terran has an advantage in economy build order but 1rax is hard to defend against 3 gates. =>it likes zvt. If zerg goes for hatch be4 pool, terran can't kill zerg. Zerg will has huge advantage and win game easily in mid game.
If you played this perfectly, as in professional caliber, you may have a chance to win. However, you are not at that level. The other way that you could have won, would have been if your opponent completely mismicro'd.
On April 08 2011 07:08 spbelky wrote: If he A moves to my base the way his army is set up, I will 1shot each unit as it comes streaming in lol... easily.
Basically, all he had to do was gather his troops, and he would have won the fight.
cant watch the replay can anyone sum up why the protoss shouldve won? if the terran won, what is there to argue? a game is a game, lag and things happen.
On April 09 2011 05:53 YueY. wrote: Wow, this is pretty funny, my friend told me about this thread and I read almost the entire thing and couldn't stop laughing, I mean was it really that big of a deal you needed to make a thread on tl about this dude? I mean it was annoying because this is what happened, yesterday the servers were shutting down on the NA server, and it gave updates like "20 minutes before server shut down" "10 minutes, 5 minutes etc" when our game was going on, so at the very end, I knew the servers were gonna shut down soon so I was about to attack him, I mean I probably would have attacked him anyway even if the servers weren't shutting down, but I thought he was just being a dick and not leaving the game when it was clearly over so he could maybe get a free win from me if I disconnected, and I did disconnect and thats why I said those things, I mean I didn't really care all that much...it was just annoying knowing I was JUST ABOUT to win and then the server shut down haha, I was just kinda like "whatever thats lame, but its not that big of a deal" I mean it was just a ladder game, not the TSL or something. I just find it hilarious you actually made a thread about this, it seems like you cared WAYYYY more than I did haha, and I like how you make it seem like you werent bm to me after the game, I am not one for "starcraft drama" I could care less about you, or that game. You're just making a fool out of yourself with this thread, which is just priceless.
lol, it was hardly clearly over from his perspective, coz you are awful. He probably didn't even know what kind of army you had, much less what you were gonna do next.
This thread is interesting, but at the end of the day, the protoss did not deserve the win any more than the terran. You both played like shit, and the game could have gone either way in the end, because you both are awful. A game isn't over just coz you had arguably a better army when the server shut down. You definitely hadn't won yet, and I'm not confident you even could have managed to pull out a win. This isn't BM; this is the truth.
So the OP is kinda fun to talk about, but neither of you won the game. Obviously, haha.
If players continued to play at the level they had been playing at I'm confident P would have won this game (though he could have won so much earlier so many times). Just ball up and attack, his repeated strat that almost lost him the game in one engagement. I'd give the Terran at best 30% odds.
I'm going to disregard the fact tht ur mechanics were god awful and you absolutely deserved to lose this match.
There's no doubt he could've just grouped up and 1a and killed you. You had the better economy (which is a shame becuz your scv production was poor) but it really didn't matter as he was about to kill you.
However, considering to time to get to your base and if u pulled all your scvs, depending on his micro, there is some chance you may have barely held losing most of your scvs and having very little army. U say he was all-in but considering the losses u would've needed to hold the attack, he probably could've stabilised and get his 3rd up.
The protoss didn't play particularly well but he was most likely going to win the match. Was there a 100% chance he would've won it at tht particular time? No. But i don't like how you're calling his comments arrogant when you're the one trying to defend urself with a game tht you clearly were very likely to lose. Just take your win, as lucky as it was, and improve your general gameplay.
On April 08 2011 06:22 BitterStriFe wrote: A Protoss complaining about the Terran winning? Well first off, go watch the results from MLG Dallas, and i'm guessing he is not past 3k masters, just me.
I can't download the replay by the way.
Yes because if a player wins something he has no merit. It's the race he plays that has the merit,
The protoss could basically just box his army and attack you and win right there, and there would be nothing you could do to stop him. He also had a lot of extra probes, so even if you did manage to hold the attack, which would cost you your eco for sure, he could just long distance from the gold to get enough for a nexus basically, (That is assuming he's mined out). I really don't see how you could have won that without the DC
He never got a 3rd base up and running, so at this point he is 100% all-in, right now or he loses. His natural expansion has ~500 minerals left in it, and mine has ~8k minerals left being mined by 30+ scvs (not to mention 2 OCs for muling, 3 mules just landed as he left
What are you talking about? He had a 3rd and was mining from it. Yes you harassed it a bit and eventually even destroyed it when he attacked you, but he did mine like 1600 minerals from it. So what you said is simply not true.
You know the entire time you keep telling people they are wrong and you're right, you could just go play more ladder games or do something else more enjoyable. This just feels like a waste of time.
I voted propably protoss, but it was extremely close to the too close to call. If he groups up quickly and attacks he could most likely take you out, but good/bad micro might change the outcome of that battle, ton of medivacs you have help a lot here, and even if you end up losing all your SCVs you can just call mules and have somewhat of an economy to start replenishing your army. If toss takes too long to group up I'd recon you would be able to get enough army to hold the attack, but micro would play a big part in the battle again.
The stratergy forum has a great thread made by Plexa on how to watch your own replays, reading that and given some level of competency, it is fairly easy to gauge whether or not you were in a good position by the end.
I don't understand why you need to poll people for their approval, this just seems like a lazy way of getting people to do your work for you whilst avoiding the new strategy forums strict rules on the creation of threads, i'm surprised these threads are allowed to exist..since the Stratergy forum doubles as a place to get help, criticism and analysis on your play
terran wins becouse of upgrades medivacs and having nat with minerals while protoss had like 200 min left on his nat , protoss had just 1-1 no charge no blink and just 2 colosus u send all scvs with your marauders and u won that.