After Patch 1.3 hit, I found the BC speed buff to be an INCREDIBLE buff to the once "useless" capital ship. I've been working on a project for a bit, collecting games from my Mass Air playstyle against Protoss and compiled the best replays which feature good usage of Battlecruisers. I play at a 3300-3500 Masters level as a side note.
I hope you guys will take away from this how good BCs are, especially with upgrades, Yamato, and a sizable air fleet behind them. Please leave any feedback, comments or questions you guys may have here! Please enjoy watching them as much as I did playing them!
Contents: Eight(8) replays where at least 4 Battlecruisers were used to help me win games. Games consist of NA ladder play and against practice partners.
Nice job with the replay pack. I as well have thought about BCs vs protoss as I'm struggling vs them. What I'm afraid of is like a 8-gate mass blink stalker. Someone who is very good with them could dominate BCs even with the speed. Or maybe I'm wrong. Could you talk more about your mass air strat and how its done vs toss? Thanks
Sure! Check out the link at the bottom of the OP for a more in-depth look at the guide itself if you have any other questions.
Mass Air is extremely powerful against Protoss because of how well the Banshee does against the Stalker, Protoss' main AA. It takes 2 Stalkers to kill a Banshee, so I figured a strong strategy would be one that can get a lot of Banshees out quickly hold Air superiority. The build is based off of a fast expansion into 4 Starports. The FE allows extra gas income for enough to support 4 Starports, and with that many production facilities, we can get crank out a large amount of aerial units quickly.
There is no "hard counter" to this build or style of play, and gives you an easy transition into Battlecruisers which are the nail in the coffin for Protoss. I firmly believe this style of play will eventually become standard in TvP. Check out the thread!
On April 05 2011 20:29 rmAmnesiac wrote: how do phoenixes do vs battlecruisers? if they respond to your 4 ports by throwing up stargates how do you transition?
Phoenix do terribly against BCs. They specialize in killing light air units and the armored, massive BC is just not that. Phoenix do 5x2 damage per shot on the BC, however the BC has 3 base armor. That means a Phoenix does 4 damage a shot to Battlecruisers. Very, very bad against them.
Against Stargate play, I use my own Starports and pump vikings out. With 4 Starports, I can pump out either Banshees or Vikings in the midgame to deal with the current situation, and later transition into BC with either Banshee or Viking support depending on how Protoss responds to my Air play. 4 Starports can get you a lot of units very quickly.
The best i can offer for anyone insterested in checking Battlecruiser usage after patch 1.3 at the highest levels are these two examples from two distinct series: one held at MLG Dallas 2011 the other one from last week Black Dragon League.
The best i can offer for anyone insterested in checking Battlecruiser usage after patch 1.3 at the highest levels are these two examples from two distinct series: one held at MLG Dallas 2011 the other one from last week Black Dragon League.
On April 05 2011 21:07 Escapist wrote: Dont mean to hijack anything and im sorry if thats the case. I can delete the post if you prefer no worries and sorry for disturbing
Doesn't bother me at all. Actually, I recommend you post the second replay in this thread. It's a discussion about the viability of BCs in TvP and I think this makes a great case
From a Protoss point of view once BCs got out on the field it was hard to stop even before 1.3 but then you could just not engage the army head on and go for the bases; until the Terran turned around and caught up the damage was already done. I think Voidrays (bonus damage to armored) and HT for feedback would be the best choice since with a BC and viking composition this means it will be less likely to have Ghosts out emp-ing the field. Downside(s): it would be extremely gas intensive to keep this up, hard to get both tech trees going, will need also some ground to keep the HTs from being sniped, not too mobile since an army can only move as fast as it's slowest unit and a lot of micro to pull off a win and that's a lot of "if"s. Phoenixes are out of the question but stalkers may still be a viable option with blink (again very micro intensive though). It will make matches a lot more interesting if terrans will incorporate BCs more that's for sure, I guess I will have to start thinking how exactly I can respond to this if faced with in a match.
On April 05 2011 21:20 Morilla wrote: From a Protoss point of view once BCs got out on the field it was hard to stop even before 1.3 but then you could just not engage the army head on and go for the bases; until the Terran turned around and caught up the damage was already done. I think Voidrays (bonus damage to armored) and HT for feedback would be the best choice since with a BC and viking composition this means it will be less likely to have Ghosts out emp-ing the field. Downside(s): it would be extremely gas intensive to keep this up, hard to get both tech trees going, will need also some ground to keep the HTs from being sniped, not too mobile since an army can only move as fast as it's slowest unit and a lot of micro to pull off a win and that's a lot of "if"s. Phoenixes are out of the question but stalkers may still be a viable option with blink (again very micro intensive though). It will make matches a lot more interesting if terrans will incorporate BCs more that's for sure, I guess I will have to start thinking how exactly I can respond to this if faced with in a match.
Tried a bunch of Voidrays, it failed misserably :/ I've tried Voidrays enough to realize how terrible they are against Battle Cruisers.
Let me rephrase that, I've used them enough against BC's to know they completely fall apart to the units supporting the BC's.
Without Speedrays, Viking/Marine/Ghost just RIP your voidrays, you have to be 100% sure that you know what you are doing when you engage because there is no running back, you will easily lose 80% of your Voidrays if you try run away after engaging poorly.
I've yet to see anyone use Voidrays against BC's and win, I have just stopped now, the losses are too painful. If someone can show me where they have won against BC/Marine/Ghost/Viking with a Voidray centric or even a Voidray support type unit composition, then I'd love to see it, but right now I've given up that road.
I think a better route is just Stalker/Archon/Templar/Colossus/Pray. Usually go for a quick bust when I see Terran starts making BC's, Protoss doesn't really have an answer for BC/Ghost/Viking lategame (when it starts getting into 8+ BC's, when its like 4-5 BC's then its manageable)
On April 05 2011 13:08 Synystyr wrote: ALL REPLAYS ARE POST PATCH 1.3
After Patch 1.3 hit, I found the BC speed buff to be an INCREDIBLE buff to the once "useless" capital ship. I've been working on a project for a bit, collecting games from my Mass Air playstyle against Protoss and compiled the best replays which feature good usage of Battlecruisers. I play at a 3300-3500 Masters level as a side note.
I hope you guys will take away from this how good BCs are, especially with upgrades, Yamato, and a sizable air fleet behind them. Please leave any feedback, comments or questions you guys may have here! Please enjoy watching them as much as I did playing them!
Contents: Eight(8) replays where at least 4 Battlecruisers were used to help me win games. Games consist of NA ladder play and against practice partners.
On April 05 2011 13:08 Synystyr wrote: ALL REPLAYS ARE POST PATCH 1.3
After Patch 1.3 hit, I found the BC speed buff to be an INCREDIBLE buff to the once "useless" capital ship. I've been working on a project for a bit, collecting games from my Mass Air playstyle against Protoss and compiled the best replays which feature good usage of Battlecruisers. I play at a 3300-3500 Masters level as a side note.
I hope you guys will take away from this how good BCs are, especially with upgrades, Yamato, and a sizable air fleet behind them. Please leave any feedback, comments or questions you guys may have here! Please enjoy watching them as much as I did playing them!
Contents: Eight(8) replays where at least 4 Battlecruisers were used to help me win games. Games consist of NA ladder play and against practice partners.
I think the only unit you haven't really explored in the history of this style is the incorporation of ghosts.
Ehehehe =]
Very true...I actually have very limited Ghost play experience in general. Every time I look at them, I just think "Too gas heavy, cannot afford". However, the more and more I think about it, I can just add 1-3 of them in early to help with early game defense and build up energy much like my Raven and get a couple EMPs off to deal with HTs/Stalker shields. I guess I know what I'm gonna be toying around with for a bit xD.
On April 05 2011 13:08 Synystyr wrote: ALL REPLAYS ARE POST PATCH 1.3
After Patch 1.3 hit, I found the BC speed buff to be an INCREDIBLE buff to the once "useless" capital ship. I've been working on a project for a bit, collecting games from my Mass Air playstyle against Protoss and compiled the best replays which feature good usage of Battlecruisers. I play at a 3300-3500 Masters level as a side note.
I hope you guys will take away from this how good BCs are, especially with upgrades, Yamato, and a sizable air fleet behind them. Please leave any feedback, comments or questions you guys may have here! Please enjoy watching them as much as I did playing them!
Contents: Eight(8) replays where at least 4 Battlecruisers were used to help me win games. Games consist of NA ladder play and against practice partners.
I think the only unit you haven't really explored in the history of this style is the incorporation of ghosts.
Ehehehe =]
Very true...I actually have very limited Ghost play experience in general. Every time I look at them, I just think "Too gas heavy, cannot afford". However, the more and more I think about it, I can just add 1-3 of them in early to help with early game defense and build up energy much like my Raven and get a couple EMPs off to deal with HTs/Stalker shields. I guess I know what I'm gonna be toying around with for a bit xD.
Have any replays of anyone having some remote success with Voidrays?
On April 05 2011 22:15 Arkanor wrote: Would it be possible to zip these so those of us without the premium service don't have to repeat the procedure 8 times?
Looking forward to watching these, I always wanted to be able to actually use the BC.
So any feedback? What do you guys think so far? The aim for these replays is to show that Battlecruisers are indeed a viable transition in the lategame and by far the strongest in my opinion. Thoughts?
The new BC's with support cannot be stopped by anything Protoss has once you reach a decent number of them. 4 or 5 BC's are still in the manageable range. Once this hits 8-10 or more there's simply nothing the Protoss can do. As I mentioned in your guide thread, the power of the new BC's is not just because of the movement speed increase. It's compounded by the removal of the Khydarian Amulet for HT's. Without on-demand Psi-Storms, your Marine mineral dumps become significantly stronger because heavy Starport play already forces Protoss to move away from Robotech and Colossi.
Other thoughts:
-Because of air-stacking, if you keep a decent number of Banshees alive from the midgame to pair with your BC's in the late-game, it significantly reduces the threat of Stalkers. A stack of 8-10 Banshees along with BC's simply owns Stalkers in huge numbers as evidenced in most of your replays. In the one game on Typhon peaks I think the Stalkers even had huge upgrade advantages over your air units but still got owned.
-To those trying this, DO NOT FORGET RAVENS. Not only do they let you snipe Observers which keeps the Protoss in the dark and make your Cloak Banshees even more powerful, but PDD's allow you to protect your first few BC's from Blink Stalker snipes so that you can build up towards critical mass.
-Mass marines owns all Stargate units while Terran Starport >>> Robotech. This forces the Protoss to rely on a primarily Gateway army whose best response against BC's is HT-Feedback with Blink Stalker. However your support units such as Banshees, mass marines, and Ravens will severely limit the effectiveness of these units and allow your BC's to roll them. The last resort would be Feedback along with Archons and Zealots but this can be solved by simply making Blue Flame Helions as your mineral dump.
Bottomline is that Sky Terran deathball >>> Protoss deathball. =D
EPT
