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On April 04 2011 22:57 MrSexington wrote:
Another thought: What I'm about to say... is based on a realistic improvement for the immediate future (Columbus). It would be great to say, "Next time make everything perfect! Spend twice as much money if you have to!" But here's a simple, easy to implement idea and it's basically free:
One of the biggest surprises spectating this event was to find out that I followed almost as many games through Twitter as I did through the official stream. Why not integrate twitter on the spectator page? Get a couple bodies on the ground following the games that aren't casted. Make them official MLG Twitter feeds. Get the embed code from the Twitter site and integrate that feed next to the streaming window. This way, as a spectator, the stream would be in it's usual box, maybe farther off to the side and right next to it would be a pair of official MLG Twitter feeds updating the games that aren't casted as they happen.
There would be no more need spamming the TL threads with Twitter posts from multiple sources (TL, EG, iNcontroL's girlfriend, etc.). Many of the spectators were dual following the stream and all of the feeds anyway. Why not make it official?
Just to add on to this:
Why not just collaborate with Team Liquid and use their Twitter embed code to do this? iNcontroL's girlfriend is already employed by MLG, correct? Why not use her as the 2nd Twitter. This way it would literally be free and is a realistic improvement in time for Columbus.
TL;DR - On the MLG stream page, display 3 things:
1) The Stream Window
2) TL's Twitter Feed
3) iNcontroL's Girlfriend's Twitter Feed
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On April 04 2011 23:22 MrSexington wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2011 22:57 MrSexington wrote:
Another thought: What I'm about to say... is based on a realistic improvement for the immediate future (Columbus). It would be great to say, "Next time make everything perfect! Spend twice as much money if you have to!" But here's a simple, easy to implement idea and it's basically free:
One of the biggest surprises spectating this event was to find out that I followed almost as many games through Twitter as I did through the official stream. Why not integrate twitter on the spectator page? Get a couple bodies on the ground following the games that aren't casted. Make them official MLG Twitter feeds. Get the embed code from the Twitter site and integrate that feed next to the streaming window. This way, as a spectator, the stream would be in it's usual box, maybe farther off to the side and right next to it would be a pair of official MLG Twitter feeds updating the games that aren't casted as they happen.
There would be no more need spamming the TL threads with Twitter posts from multiple sources (TL, EG, iNcontroL's girlfriend, etc.). Many of the spectators were dual following the stream and all of the feeds anyway. Why not make it official? Just to add on to this: Why not just collaborate with Team Liquid and use their Twitter embed code to do this? iNcontroL's girlfriend is already employed by MLG, correct? Why not use her as the 2nd Twitter. This way it would literally be free and is a realistic improvement in time for Columbus. TL;DR - On the MLG stream page, display 3 things: 1) The Stream Window 2) TL's Twitter Feed 3) iNcontroL's Girlfriend's Twitter Feed
Surely this is what the MLG live blog should be doing? I'm not saying that they shouldn't replace the live blog with a live twitter feed, which might well be better. But they do already have a mechanism in place for text updates about games in progress. Maybe they could integrate the live blog to also include updates from some twitter feeds?
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On April 04 2011 23:34 Silkath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2011 23:22 MrSexington wrote:On April 04 2011 22:57 MrSexington wrote:
Another thought: What I'm about to say... is based on a realistic improvement for the immediate future (Columbus). It would be great to say, "Next time make everything perfect! Spend twice as much money if you have to!" But here's a simple, easy to implement idea and it's basically free:
One of the biggest surprises spectating this event was to find out that I followed almost as many games through Twitter as I did through the official stream. Why not integrate twitter on the spectator page? Get a couple bodies on the ground following the games that aren't casted. Make them official MLG Twitter feeds. Get the embed code from the Twitter site and integrate that feed next to the streaming window. This way, as a spectator, the stream would be in it's usual box, maybe farther off to the side and right next to it would be a pair of official MLG Twitter feeds updating the games that aren't casted as they happen.
There would be no more need spamming the TL threads with Twitter posts from multiple sources (TL, EG, iNcontroL's girlfriend, etc.). Many of the spectators were dual following the stream and all of the feeds anyway. Why not make it official? Just to add on to this: Why not just collaborate with Team Liquid and use their Twitter embed code to do this? iNcontroL's girlfriend is already employed by MLG, correct? Why not use her as the 2nd Twitter. This way it would literally be free and is a realistic improvement in time for Columbus. TL;DR - On the MLG stream page, display 3 things: 1) The Stream Window 2) TL's Twitter Feed 3) iNcontroL's Girlfriend's Twitter Feed Surely this is what the MLG live blog should be doing? I'm not saying that they shouldn't replace the live blog with a live twitter feed, which might well be better. But they do already have a mechanism in place for text updates about games in progress. Maybe they could integrate the live blog to also include updates from some twitter feeds?
It's funny you mention the live blog. I completely for got about it... that's how much of an impression it made on me. Let's just say it was lacking. But yeah, whatever gets the job done. It's just silly that I get an equal amount of information from the MLG stream versus the TL Twitter.
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All this stuff about Twitter and keeping up to date with results...
Hey, remember when MLG bought GotFrag? Remember when GotFrag was the biggest English-language esports coverage site in the world? (not sure about compared to TL now, but TL is basically a huge forum) Seems like maybe not gutting their budget completely and then abandoning the site for dead might have been a good idea...
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it will be interesting to see how the NASL will do
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On April 04 2011 11:19 Brad wrote:
The spectators also couldn't hear the casters. That's pretty bad on it's own.
THIS. OMG THIS.
WTF, the only people who could *not* hear Day9 and DJWheat livecast the games were the people who shelled out money and traveled to be there.
I was one of said people. Seriously? like 70% of the reason I was there was to hear day9 shoutcast games and you take that away from me? I can watch the games w/o on replay later *by myself*. I came (and PAID) to hear the casters livecast the games with likeminded people around me.
They should have put the casters in front of the audience and had the players in the back with cameras on them instead of vice versa. geez.
That's a simple, extremely cost effective fix.
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I was thinking of planning a trip to MLG Columbus, but the lack of commentary seems really odd. It's almost like you get a better viewing experience at home on your couch without having to drive 6 hours.
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@OP
1. I like the first idea of OP, but all that hustle and bustle could distract the two players while they're playing, unless the next set of players are doing their 'setup" between sets. That said you could set up while a match is going on IF THERE WERE BOOTHS.
Solution? Get booths.
3. They did have the player cams down at the bottom right, but I agree, instead of cutting solely to the casters after a match, maybe a split between casters/players.
Whoever was running the TL Twitter did a better job updating than anyone at MLG.
Mine:
1. Don't blame DFW area network issues on the lack of your infrastructure. There was no lag in Dallas. Sundance is quick to point the blame. The short story is that was a massive amount of failure that could have been prevented. MLG through all the tribulations previous had the opportunity to start the year off right and the ball was dropped. GSL and Dreamhack had ways to work with no LAN, crying about not having lan isn't a solution.
2. It's obvious SC2, with the right about of care, is going to be the big cash cow for MLG. Halo is cool for a small pool of population for the states, but just glancing at TL you see people outside of the united states staying up till 3am just to get "we're having technical difficulties". Now what does that have to do with it? It's easy to compare the money invested in, while the 3 share the main stage there is an obvious level of care that goes into Halo, the "main stream" had it most of the time (except a very short/rare glimpse of geoff), the prize, the screens on stage etc...
Ya know what, it doesn't even matter any more. It just doesn't, Sundance doesn't care. The only thing related to SC2 that he cares about is expanding into a foreign market outside of the US and he will never do that with CoD:BO and Halo alone. That's fine, i'll just watch NASL/GSL and a half dozen other leagues who can properly put on a show.
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There were a whole lot of bad and wrong going on. I'll just list a few that bothered me personally the most:
The casters were "casting" twitter updates to us about the amazing games going on here. Offensive doesn't even begin describing it.
The waiting times were absolutely horrible. I'm stunned at the lack of planning/competence.
Bring in a good looking girl to apologize and then disappear? Tactless and spineless to say the least.
That combined with a lot of other bad stuff actually made this the worst tournament production and quality wise I've ever seen. The casters were good but without any games to cast what can you actually do? Why not load a replay and cast that? Argh I'm so sad and so mad.
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On April 04 2011 16:46 KawaiiRice wrote:
I shouldn't have to wake up and not know I play in an hour
or go to the last day of the event with nothing and be told I have consolation matches
les go MLG !
Lol yeah. Day 2, I got thereat 10:00AM thinking I would be playing. Game didn't start until 12:00...WHAT?
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You know, I usually don't comment on stuff like this, but I agree almost whole heartedly with the OP. I think he did have some really great ideas on ways to fill time. Going to interview snip-its before a match, maybe talk about their tournament thus far, highlight key wins/losses in earlier brackets, maybe show highlights of said games.
Now, all that would require probably one or two guys dedicated to pulling replays and feeding information to the casters, but I think for the quality that you would get out of it, it would be more than worth it. Hell, I'll even volunteer to be part of that team, just foot my bill to get there and I'll do it for free haha.
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Coming from someone who played, there were quite a few problems obviously. They never resolved my mouse driver issue. It was fun trying to play with a foreign feel to my mouse. The lag issue where games had to be paused mid game 3-4 times each game was fantastic as well.
For the first two days (I didn't go day3 because of MLG failures) the amount of games that were seen on the main stage was so low it was more worthwhile to just watch games from behind players.
It's complete bullshit that the spectators who drove up there and payed $20 to come watch didn't even get to hear commentary. After like 8 hours of nothing they finally started putting up replays on the main screen, I guess that's good MLG.
Oh and get some real food there. $8.00 reheated microwaved pizza as the only option at the venue was pretty lame. Is it that hard for them to find a business that wants to cater decent food and make a killing.
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On April 04 2011 10:35 dacthehork wrote:
1. Put two extra computers on the main stage and have the next players prepare on them.
3. Immediately cut to players faces after the match.
4. Replays inbetween matches. Instead of downtime fast forward through a non televised game, giving a quick recap of a game the stream missed.
5. Be able to cut into other games if mainstage game is over and there is dead time.
Here is a quick overview of some goals you might want to adopt:
Show games whenever possible
Utilize replays / interviews / cuts to players instead of day9/djwheat talking about tekken to fill time.
Cutting out the useless insults that hurt your position much more than they help, and we're actually left with some good advice.
Reduce downtime by having more than one game the casters can join into, or even have a setup where the casters can cut to another screen (with a dedicated "joiner") with their computer. Hell, if Khaldor manages to follow two different games on his own, switching screens when appropriate, so can MLG. Having replays on hand the casters can quickly go through instead of filling time through talking is also a suitable solution.
Capture the emotions of the players. Good job on having the player's faces on screen when big battles happen, but why oh why is MLG cutting away to the casters when the gg happens? There's a camera pointed towards the players anyway, cut to that instead!
Obviously, these changes are only relevant for the last day, which did not have as much of the technical issues that plagued the first two (where the highest priority isn't any of the above stuff, but "get things working" instead). But I think these changes would make for a much smoother and more engaging viewer experience.
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What is the fallout for such a lame event? I won't be buying another HQ pass for sure but I wonder what level of repercussion they feel for putting out such a lame product. Are they aware of how the SC2 community feels?
I personally feel that MLG is doing us a disservice by involving itself with SC2 and I wish another organization (NASL, TSL, IGN) would become the torch bearer for SC2 in NA. Given an off-season and a big pile of money to get it right, MLG had their shot and failed. They don't appear competent enough to pull it off. Further, when watching TSL or GSL, I get the feeling that the people behind the event 'get it' and have a genuine connection with the community and how we want things done. When watching MLG I don't get this same vibe. If we assume Sundance is running the show and his familiarity with SC2 and it's community extends to 'liking the marines' the best (see SOTG Sundance interview) then I think we will see more of the same from MLG.
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1) Stream stability was bad, we know this
2) The set behind the casters looked like something I could do with a quick trip to home depot - the whole player and caster surroundings looked amateurish
3) The dead air with the casters scrambling to fill time while we miss the entire TLO vs incontrol series was unacceptable - its ok you can join the series at game 2, we don't mind!!!
4) Booths would be awesome, but I don't believe its a deal breaker. Too many different crowds watching different games to really use the noise as an advantage
5) Show the players reactions immediately following every match
6) Interviews/ceremonies seemed to be non-existent and/or very short
I don't know what kind of budget they have to work with, but the whole experience just seemed amateurish. Here hoping for massive improvement next MLG!
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On April 05 2011 01:26 RevRich wrote:
4) Booths would be awesome, but I don't believe its a deal breaker. Too many different crowds watching different games to really use the noise as an advantage
I believe the booth issue stems from the fact they had to cut the commentary audio to the audience because the players could hear the casters as well.
It also affected commentary during the pauses where Day [9] woudl begin to analyze the game and then realize he had to stop because the players could hear him again (since they turned the audio back on tot he audience during the delay).
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I think booths (real soundproof ones) would solve some of the bigger concerns people are having, with the no live cast due to players hearing the commentators business....
I really can't be that much of an expense can it?
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What can I say. Everything's been said already. If anything, I'd like to post my opinion on:
In the past few days nearly everybody wrote:
We need LAN and better venues/infrastructure or another solution.
We don't need LAN. Dreamhack was fine without LAN. Blizzcon was fine without LAN. The various cups each and every day of the week do fine without LAN.
Being better prepared for the possibility of a fuckup is what we (as players, spectators, producers and hosts) need. MLG Dallas was worse than what some would call amateur. It was a hideous waste of time. I sincerely hope the organizers have the balls to realize it.
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I agree with all you said, but props to Day9 and djwheat for being able to delay and entertain for so long. It must've been hard for them, and it's not their fault because it's not like they had the authority to just jump into games and cast (I'm sure they would've liked to). But this MLG was disappointing
Edit: Agree with the soundproof booths. I'm sure MLG makes enough to afford them, and they would help the experience IMMENSELY.
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On April 05 2011 01:37 N3rV[Green] wrote:
I think booths (real soundproof ones) would solve some of the bigger concerns people are having, with the no live cast due to players hearing the commentators business....
I really can't be that much of an expense can it?
The problem would be how much space the booths use on the trucks they use to travel with their equipment to the event sites. The space for equipment was their reasoning for not providing seating for the SC2 spectator area in last year events.
Naniwa looked like he used in-ear headphones plus construction site ear protectors for the noise. That would be the cheapest solution. Make sure to notify every competitor that they should be prepared to use in-ear headphones for when they have to play on stage.
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EPT
