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[D] Applying Musical Learning Ideas to SC2

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-18 20:02:20
February 13 2011 20:17 GMT
#1
I picked up guitar as a leisurely hobby and really became obsessed with it. As it turns out, my tenacity won't allow me to do something without being really really good at it. I think its a trait many of us, the more hardcore gamers, have. Like all lazy Americans though, 'I asked myself how do I get better at this the fastest and with the least amount of work?' Everywhere I turned, the answer was "start off playing slow with a metronome".

Recently, I've been thinking alot about possible applications of music learning theory to Starcraft 2. Start off slow and practice with a metronome...

Note: The Zerg Soundtrack in the second half of the post is something I want to test out to see if it works. The first section regarding the metronome actually does work and will make you a better gamer overall, even outside of SC.

For the non-musical people... This is from the most official source in the entire world, wikipedia. I lost my MLA handbook so I didn't cite it... sue me.
"A metronome is any device that produces regular, metrical ticks (beats, clicks) — settable in beats per minute. These ticks represent a fixed, regular aural pulse; some metronomes also include synchronized visual motion (e.g. pendulum-swing). The metronome dates from the early 19th century, where it was patented by Johann Maelzel in 1815 as a tool for musicians, under the title "Instrument/Machine for the Improvement of all Musical Performance, called Metronome"

The basic purpose of the metronome is to improve your internal timing... your body's sense for how long things take. It does so by dividing everything up neatly for you with perfect intervals that, when heard enough, sort of become ingrained in you. With an instrument you will play along with the metronome in practice sort of as training wheels. When you remove the training wheels the effects of good rhythm and timing are still there. The tool is also used to break down complicated rhythms, but since SC2 changes so much, I dont think the device can be used for anything other than just reminding you to do something every so often and increasing accuracy.

Start Off Slow to Develop Accuracy and Speed
This is more geared to players who find themselves missing hotkeys when they select the worker they want to build with, mess up their splits at the start of the game, high APM people who are terribly inaccurate, or those who are trying to master a new hotkey setup.

Poorly trained muscle memory is the culprit here and the solution is practicing with a metronome. To do this I recommend playing against AI to eliminate the decision making needed in a game against a human oppoent.

Follow these steps:

+ Show Spoiler +
1.) Open this website in a browser window: http://www.metronomeonline.com/
2.) Set the device to 40-60 BPM for a start and leave it running in the background. This will seem annoying at first, but you will almost not notice it after a while.
3.) Select an opener that takes no more than 5 or 6 minutes to complete (this will make it much less overwhelming at first).
4.) When you load the map, execute that build order, with the catch being, you have to do exactly ONE action on each click of the metronome. No more or no less. You don't have to count the unit you selected as an action (though i recommend you do), but if you grab a probe for instance and hit "b" for build, wait until the next click to put the building down. How you separate the actions out is not relevand as long as it is consistent.
5.) Once the build order is complete, leave the game. If you made any mistakes, any missclicks, including missplaced a building, repeats steps 1-4.
6.) If you did not make any mistakes, increase the amount set to the metronome by 5 or 10 and repeat steps 4-5.


It SHOULD feel painfully slow at first, but as such you should not make ANY mistakes. No missclicks of any kind. Eventually you will get to a speed where you will be making mistakes here and there, but when you get there, dont even think about increasing it. The only time you should increase speed is when it is not at the expense of accuracy because, like any musician can tell you, accuracy is the key to speed. Additionally, no one wants to hear someone play shitty music fast for the sake of playing fast.

It will feel tedious. Look at it like a mini-game if you can, but really its an investment. If you care about really playing well, you have to find some way to improve the muscle memory that leads to speed and accuracy.

Changing Gears and an Experiment

I'm a protoss player, but I think this experiment applies mostly to zergs. Honestly, watching my replays and seeing how poorly zergs are with their spits ~2700+ masters got me thinking about it, so this is my contribution to a race that gives me alot of trouble!

My theory, which may already belong to someone else in some other field, is that you can use audial reminders to build up an internal sense of timing for ANY interval of time.

I made a sound file... It is just me playing an open D chord through some recording software with a little bit of gain attached to make it pop harder than one of Josh Grobin's girls. I ran a replay on "Faster" and timed a queen larva inject. When the queen injected I played the D chord quickly, then played it once again roughly 1-1.5 seconds after the larva popped. The extra time there is to account for your brains natural delay from hearing the sound and the time it takes to spit. If I had not left that buffer it would fall out of synch unless you were ALREADY A ROBOT.

My goal assumes you are not yet a robot, but that you are interested in becoming one. If you play with this Zerg Soundtrack for some time, it is my hope that your brain will learn the exact duration of a spit so that when you take the training wheels off, you will be spitting better than ever and almost never delay your spits. I off-raced several games as zerg against some friends (I never ever play zerg) and with this method I was able to hit my spits perfectly in time for most of the games ~12-15 minute games. I started to find myself checking the hatcheries about 1 second before the spit comes up perfectly each time and not a moment sooner than I needed to. I also did a couple games where i never looked at the base at all... where I just spit with the minimap. When i went to go back and check the replay it was nearly perfect.

I wanted to offer this to anyone that wants to try it out to see if it helps build up your internal clock for spitting. It may or may not be ethical to use this on the ladder.

Here is what you do:

+ Show Spoiler +
1.) Download this sound file: http://rapidshare.com/files/448660408/Zerg_Soundtrack.mp3
2.) Open it in media player and stop it at zero seconds.
3.) Queue up or join a custom game or play a game against the AI as zerg. When you are ready to do your first spit. You spit, immediately alt-tab, and play the file. The buffer I put into the sound file accounts for this, but you want it to happen fairly quickly... no more than a second or so. Its really not a problem and I have only had one issue loading it up and it was because i had a ton of stuff open in the background. If you make it so the media player is what pops up when you alt-tab, it will be fine.
4) If you did it correctly you will be sync'd up from this sound loop (yes you want to have this on repeat). Every time you hear the D chord, check your hatcheries. You should either see the larva flying out when you look at the hatch or it should be near complete. There's nothing wrong with checking early.
5) Whatever you are doing at that moment doesnt matter. Your priority has to be queens and spitting every time you hear the sound. If theres a huge battle, look at away and spit, there is NOTHING more important than injecting larva as far as this project is concerned. Spit quickly, if you are having trouble spitting on multiple hatcheries in a a second i think you should look into your method. I'm a non-zerg player, but im able to spit on several hatcheries per real time second (Ask in the thread if you want my method, but there are many good ways to do it).


Here are some things to note:
+ Show Spoiler +
- When you add your other hatches and queens, its better to wait for the cycle to come back around and get them all in sync. This could mean waiting several seconds to spit. That is the lesser of two evils. If you want, you can try to spit the later hatches on a different timer and just focus on the main hatchery for the sound file. In one of my test games I tried this and I was surprised to find that my internal timing was so much weaker on the second hatchery that eventually it ended up syncing up with my main hatchery.
- If your queens die or you are low on energy due to a creep tumor or something like that, you can always stop the sound file and resync it again, or just turn it off and play out the game without it.
- For the above reason, I think maybe just using it during macro practice against AI's would be another use for it. I was using it in real games and finding that my main hatches queen was never really above 26 or 27 energy for a 12 minute or so span (until I lost it during an attack). Syncing up the secondary hatches could lead to slightly more energy on your other queens, but again, its the internal timing we want to work on so its better to delay a spit for synchronization purposes.
-I am sure some of you will find situations pop up where you dont much use out of this audial reminder. A couple of the games I tried I botched something so bad that I had to turn it off and just play the game out without it. If thats the case just load it up next game. This is a tool for improving your timing, not intended to just play the game for you so realize I did the best I could to come up with an idea for ingraining that inject larva interval into your brain.
- It would be ideal if some super awesome map maker made a map with a sound file telling you to inject that you could use to just practice perfect macro with.


Try it out, see if it works for you. I know its been very helpful for me since making it while off-racing zerg. I can spit like a pro and I'm not a rapper and I don't play zerg.

If there's demand for it I can make additional tracks to fit your mood. I'm already working on an "Its raining men" for artosis to practice with
FrostOtter
Profile Joined September 2010
United States537 Posts
February 13 2011 20:23 GMT
#2
Interestingly, I've done a similar sort of experiment through the philosophy of keyboarding (although as a pianist I like your music method)-- I set my hotkey set up to grid. Since I am an accomplished typist, that means that really I have to only think of what key to hit (based on the grid) to accomplish whatever task I have in mind-- and after months of play, it becomes muscle memory.
Musketeer
Profile Joined August 2010
142 Posts
February 13 2011 20:34 GMT
#3
The problem with this is exactly the same as the problem with practicing with a metronome; people who use the metronome excessively have trouble when playing in front of an audience, develop frequent memory blackouts and have trouble adapting their play to an ensemble setting. That's why metronomes are usually reserved for working through the most difficult passages.

In a game of Starcraft, you can get great (ie high on ladder, for what it's worth) by cheesing every game. You used a 'shortcut' to get ladder points, but will suffer profoundly if you ever have to play well in a macro game. The metronome is like that. If you're a beginning instrumentalist who aims to be able to play respectable repertoire as quickly as possible, starting slow and with a metronome is great. However, if you aim to be concert performer, you'll find that metronomes are rarely used. In Starcraft, I presume for most of us that the goal IS to become the equivalent of a 'concert performer'. and thereby cultivating reliance on an external source (ie your audio file) will only cause problems when one is forced to learn to macro in a tournament setting without the cues.

However, I do think your general premise is great. Learning an instrument is one of the most meticulous and difficult things one can learn to do; that's why it takes 20+ years to become a master at any instrument. It is, therefore, indeed a great idea to draw from the techniques of musical learning and apply them to Starcraft. Especially for mechanics, there are some very interesting gems of wisdom from my performing experience that I've used to VASTLY enhance my SC2 skills.
Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
February 13 2011 20:39 GMT
#4
On February 14 2011 05:34 Musketeer wrote:
The problem with this is exactly the same as the problem with practicing with a metronome; people who use the metronome excessively have trouble when playing in front of an audience, develop frequent memory blackouts and have trouble adapting their play to an ensemble setting. That's why metronomes are usually reserved for working through the most difficult passages.

In a game of Starcraft, you can get great (ie high on ladder, for what it's worth) by cheesing every game. You used a 'shortcut' to get ladder points, but will suffer profoundly if you ever have to play well in a macro game. The metronome is like that. If you're a beginning instrumentalist who aims to be able to play respectable repertoire as quickly as possible, starting slow and with a metronome is great. However, if you aim to be concert performer, you'll find that metronomes are rarely used. In Starcraft, I presume for most of us that the goal IS to become the equivalent of a 'concert performer'. and thereby cultivating reliance on an external source (ie your audio file) will only cause problems when one is forced to learn to macro in a tournament setting without the cues.

However, I do think your general premise is great. Learning an instrument is one of the most meticulous and difficult things one can learn to do; that's why it takes 20+ years to become a master at any instrument. It is, therefore, indeed a great idea to draw from the techniques of musical learning and apply them to Starcraft. Especially for mechanics, there are some very interesting gems of wisdom from my performing experience that I've used to VASTLY enhance my SC2 skills.

Yea, I agree with your points for sure and its definitely different when those other factors or distractions are involved. I guess I just figure that since starcraft 2 is alot less precise and alot easier than learning an instrument, building an internal timing to have you take a look at your hatches every 30 seconds would be more effecitve than just constantly checking your base out of habit even when not needed.
imyzhang
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada809 Posts
February 13 2011 20:47 GMT
#5
On February 14 2011 05:34 Musketeer wrote:
The problem with this is exactly the same as the problem with practicing with a metronome; people who use the metronome excessively have trouble when playing in front of an audience, develop frequent memory blackouts and have trouble adapting their play to an ensemble setting. That's why metronomes are usually reserved for working through the most difficult passages.

In a game of Starcraft, you can get great (ie high on ladder, for what it's worth) by cheesing every game. You used a 'shortcut' to get ladder points, but will suffer profoundly if you ever have to play well in a macro game. The metronome is like that. If you're a beginning instrumentalist who aims to be able to play respectable repertoire as quickly as possible, starting slow and with a metronome is great. However, if you aim to be concert performer, you'll find that metronomes are rarely used. In Starcraft, I presume for most of us that the goal IS to become the equivalent of a 'concert performer'. and thereby cultivating reliance on an external source (ie your audio file) will only cause problems when one is forced to learn to macro in a tournament setting without the cues.

However, I do think your general premise is great. Learning an instrument is one of the most meticulous and difficult things one can learn to do; that's why it takes 20+ years to become a master at any instrument. It is, therefore, indeed a great idea to draw from the techniques of musical learning and apply them to Starcraft. Especially for mechanics, there are some very interesting gems of wisdom from my performing experience that I've used to VASTLY enhance my SC2 skills.


agreed. you can also see the apm/day[9] (or whatever it's called) coaching application as an equivalent to the metronome.
bleh
karma227
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada15 Posts
February 13 2011 20:52 GMT
#6
Musketeer,
Although I definitely agree, having done piano for 12 years, that playing with a metronome can affect the way that a person plays a piece in concert, and no doubt that the goal for any serious SC2 player is to become the equivalent of a "concert performer" but as I think back to when I was just starting out on my first piece my teacher would harp on me night and day to use the metronome to get the timings down. As I progressed I phased it out because the skills I needed to play the more complex pieces were there. I don't think Jayrod is preposing players use his "metronome" as an aid while playing but more so as a tool for those just starting out and those needing help and once the skill has been aquired, not unlike how any fresh piano student would progress, they phase out the metronome and eventually do away with it completely, allowing for the more advanced learning to take place. I think that if people were to follow that and understand that what Jayrod is supplying is a tool not a crutch then it can be used to great effect, but if not then you are completely right. I like to believe that the general person is intelligent and I would hope that they do not attempt the latter of the two options.
First comes smiles, then lies, last is gunfire.
SlyinZ
Profile Joined August 2010
France199 Posts
February 13 2011 20:53 GMT
#7
This is from the most official source in the entire world, wikipedia.

>duuuuude, what?

(sry for my engrish)

Well
What i will say is maybe off topic but i'll say it :
When i play with music with lyrics ( rap rock etc ) i tend to be un-focused on the game and the important things.
When i play with no lyrics-music with high bpm ( drum and bass ) i tend to get more apm ( usefull apm, not freeclick) , I spread my creep better and i barely never miss a injection etc.
I think you may have a good point OP and i will try dat metronome macro.
zylog
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada943 Posts
February 13 2011 21:54 GMT
#8
My more serious music teachers never told me to use a metronome in practice - instead, they would advise me to use the metronome to find the right tempo, then count out loud as I practiced to get the feel for the beat.

The benefit here is that the rhythm is internally generated rather than relying on an outside source. I actually did practice a while back using counting - going 5x8 = 40 game seconds between injects, and having certain tasks like spreading creep and building units into the routine. That being said, I moved away from this purely rhythmic style because while good in theory, it can be easily thrown off by the play of my opponent.

Instead, I've switched into a more visual style where I recognize what tasks need to be done on my screen, then building triggers so that as I do one action, I know what I need to check on next. Rhythm is still useful, as I need to get a feel for the time it takes to execute a task or how much free time I have between one task and another, but overall this system is more flexible.

So while I've moved away from a purely rhythm oriented approach, the principles of focused practice from musical learning are always valid and applicable. Learning any skilled activity follows the same general procedure, and music is a discipline that has had hundreds of years of refinement in terms of learning methods.
BGrael
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany229 Posts
February 13 2011 22:09 GMT
#9
This is such a fantastic idea that i have to try it right now, even though its late and i should be working on this article. Thank you !
Musketeer
Profile Joined August 2010
142 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-13 22:23:08
February 13 2011 22:19 GMT
#10
On February 14 2011 05:52 karma227 wrote:
Musketeer,
Although I definitely agree, having done piano for 12 years, that playing with a metronome can affect the way that a person plays a piece in concert, and no doubt that the goal for any serious SC2 player is to become the equivalent of a "concert performer" but as I think back to when I was just starting out on my first piece my teacher would harp on me night and day to use the metronome to get the timings down. As I progressed I phased it out because the skills I needed to play the more complex pieces were there. I don't think Jayrod is preposing players use his "metronome" as an aid while playing but more so as a tool for those just starting out and those needing help and once the skill has been aquired, not unlike how any fresh piano student would progress, they phase out the metronome and eventually do away with it completely, allowing for the more advanced learning to take place. I think that if people were to follow that and understand that what Jayrod is supplying is a tool not a crutch then it can be used to great effect, but if not then you are completely right. I like to believe that the general person is intelligent and I would hope that they do not attempt the latter of the two options.

That's fair. I suppose it can be used as tool to establish the eternal pulse, but it is very easy to become too reliant on it. It would probably be better advice then, to suggest that if people choose to use this 'metronome', they do it sparingly and are careful to not become reliant on it; it should be used as a way of establishing the internal "beat" of larva injection rather than functioning as the beat itself.

I would argue that a metronome is not ideal even for beginner pianists, but that's a matter of debate so I won't claim it to be necessarily true.

Yea, I agree with your points for sure and its definitely different when those other factors or distractions are involved. I guess I just figure that since starcraft 2 is alot less precise and alot easier than learning an instrument, building an internal timing to have you take a look at your hatches every 30 seconds would be more effecitve than just constantly checking your base out of habit even when not needed.

I definitely wouldn't recommend checking randomly (and indeed, one should get out of that habit), but by trying to do it as close to 30 seconds as possible (without a queue) and making a conscious note of how close you were each (whether early or late) time you check. Eventually (hopefully), you should just get an internal sense of the timings.

Alternatively, if you like to have each queen (or hatch) hot-keyed separately, you can try to use Day 9's "tapping" method; you don't have to look away from the battle to check how close you are to needing another injection.
Parsistamon
Profile Joined July 2010
United States390 Posts
February 13 2011 22:19 GMT
#11
I think your general idea is good, but rather misguided given the changing tempo of a starcraft game.

I too have played piano for 10+ years, and my recommendation is this: make sure that you press every key correctly. Do this no matter how slow you have to go to ensure no misclicks. Once you feel proficient at a certain speed, raise the tempo incrementally until you play at what you find to be a satisfactory speed. This will build the required muscle memory and sidesteps the issue of adapting metronomes to starcraft. In fact, I rarely use metronomes in my piano practice, but I always begin learning a piece by playing slowly. You need not be robotic; playing slowly is, at least in the beginning, more important than playing exactly even.

One potential adaptation of the metronome, however, is in timing (as you have written). It's definitely possible to condition oneself to inject larva every 4 clicks of a metronome (arbitrary number).
Schnullerbacke13
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1199 Posts
February 13 2011 22:23 GMT
#12
i played some build orders on slow to eliminate any timing errors (wanted to figure out how the build can be when played perfectly) .. somehow my execution on "faster" s
improved therafter ..
21 is half the truth
Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
February 13 2011 22:32 GMT
#13
On February 14 2011 07:19 Parsistamon wrote:
I think your general idea is good, but rather misguided given the changing tempo of a starcraft game.

I too have played piano for 10+ years, and my recommendation is this: make sure that you press every key correctly. Do this no matter how slow you have to go to ensure no misclicks. Once you feel proficient at a certain speed, raise the tempo incrementally until you play at what you find to be a satisfactory speed. This will build the required muscle memory and sidesteps the issue of adapting metronomes to starcraft. In fact, I rarely use metronomes in my piano practice, but I always begin learning a piece by playing slowly. You need not be robotic; playing slowly is, at least in the beginning, more important than playing exactly even.

One potential adaptation of the metronome, however, is in timing (as you have written). It's definitely possible to condition oneself to inject larva every 4 clicks of a metronome (arbitrary number).


Section one was for getting accuracy and speed up and section two is kind of experimental. I just felt that for section one, the metronome functions as a gauge for how fast you can play something accurately. In other words, if you're spamming all these useless clicks (like right clicking 15 times when you want to send a unit somewhere, rather than clicking once or twice) its probably because you're actually not that fast at all. I know sometimes you will have more required actions to do than your speed will allow for (such as in an important battle)... during these times you will certainly lose accuracy. My argument is that you can build your speed up incrementally by using the outlined approach to be able to click accuraretly at faster speeds.

As far as the "zerg soundtrack" thats just something kind of experimental intended to develop that internal sense.

I didnt mean to imply that you should play your normal games at exactly one tempo with even clicks or actions because thats obviously not realistic. I feel as a tool for improving accuracy and control though, the metronome is the way to pace yourself and see if you can play at a certain speed with no mistakes, much like learning a riff on a guitar. The general rule of thumb if you're learning some riff someone else wrote is that you should be able to play through it 5 times flawlessly before increasing the speed until you can finally play it.

Just kind of throwing the this thought out there, but i think it would be incredibly cool if some gamer only listened to songs in 4/4 time and trained himself to larva spit perfectly based on that tempo. Probably far-fetched but I want to say its possible.
Firereaver
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
India1701 Posts
February 16 2011 01:05 GMT
#14
Can you please update the download link to the sound file. I wanna try this soooo bad!
"They drone drone drone , me win" - JangMinChul(Iron/oGsMC)
Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
February 18 2011 20:00 GMT
#15
Updated the link. I guess it caps it at 10 downloads I had no idea im sorry. PM me please if its not working or you want me to repost it.
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