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I hope your standard Diamond/low level Masters League player isn't thinking about going pro. It's a hard life. Think about the thousands your competing against.
...But if you play SC2 to entertain people - that seems like a more achievable goal for most. It doesn't just have to be Youtube casting (which I think there's no more space for new casters - unless you're more entertaining and outgoing) but being a good coach.
There's a certain player streaming on TL that has even bronze league players giving him $20/hour.
You can also make money off of advertisements from streaming - hell, I think I remember one person receiving a $100 donation for streaming the Korean version of the GSL.
But in reality, get a 9-5 job. It's safer.
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
On February 02 2011 07:55 TT1 wrote:
casters make like 10x more money than top gamers
yeah but u cant have fun while casting but playing yes :D
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On February 02 2011 08:01 Stevelisk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 07:55 TT1 wrote:
casters make like 10x more money than top gamers Pretty much this. With the amount of money Youtube gives out for moderate traffic videos, casters like Husky could easily make up to $100k/yr. Not a bad deal considering that's about 5-10 hours of work per week.
I would imagine that Husky spends more than 5-10 hours a week doing the things you think are work, plus whatever additional time he spends doing SC2/PR/etc. Of course, it's not really comparable to a 9-5 job, since a large part of that time is doing things he would do anyway.
Similarly, iNcontroL seems to have a pretty stable gaming career, making money as a player, coaching lots of people, and could probably make some money casting if he isn't already. It's also impossible to compare the work he does to a 9-5 job, though. He probably spends far more than 40 hours a week doing SC2 related things than most spend doing things related to their jobs, but I doubt he'd call most of it "work."
I think if you really commit to making money in e-sports it's not that hard to do. The difficult part is actually committing yourself (probably less income than similar talent at anything traditional + many people wouldn't understand your decision) and having the passion for it to begin with. It's definitely an easier path for most people to just play SC2 as a hobby while pursuing other things, and you can still be good enough to be on a good team, take games from top players, etc.
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On February 02 2011 07:40 mindspike wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 06:51 Holcan wrote:
There is no financial stability, unless you do something like gosu coaching, which will go down in price as the market realizes what the coaches gives arent worth such a steep price and there are plenty of quality players out there to give advice for free, or you practice so much that you are essentially earning slave labour wages to earn a salary from one of the larger teams.
99% of people in esports give more money to esports than they will ever get out, its not economically viable, unless you are literally ripping people off of their money, you will not make money enough money in esports to actually note. So you think there is a bubble in e-sports? If anything, I think the market is spot on in terms of how much it values e-sports and that over time, the value of the sector will go UP. Like all other sports, the relative value of the sport depends on the number of eyeballs that the sport attracts which again relates to the popularity of the sport itself. Take something like Poker for example. Poker was a small, niche market back in early 2000. There wasn't a lot of interest from the mainstream and it wasn't really on TV much. However, in 2004, something happened. Interest shot up as a result of the "Moneymaker effect". (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneymaker_Effect)In conjunction with the advent of online poker, the popularity of poker rose and attracted both players and fans alike. Today, poker is on many major cable networks and you could say that poker has its own self sustaining economy. The same thing, I believe, could happen to e-sports in general. Its just a matter of the right things coming together.
Comparing poker to esports isnt fair, considering anyone with intelligence in esports, moves onto poker after their careers in esports are over, tr1p and tillerman are just two examples of people who were making top dollar in their respective games at the time, who moved over to poker and made much more money.
eSports will never become socially accepted, at least not in my life, itll always be something that college kids do in their spare time because they cannot compete in sports anymore, as long as its not socially acceptable, itll be hard to get sponsors outside of our niche market. Poker has been socially acceptable for a hundred years as a way of generating competition, they don't have the same problem of fighting each other over the same small sponsors, since there are hundreds of corporations not associated with poker willing to advertise through them. Not to mention that playing poker, even casually, costs people money, playing esports, especially casually, costs nothing.
Once again, I've hung around during the gotfrag vent party days, and heard a lot of top tier managers talking about their contributions to esports, and all of them sacrificed much more than they've gained, me saying that 99% of the people in esports will never see a profit isnt me just making it up, its a fact of the current esports market will give much, much more to esports than they will ever get back. The founders of culture never benefit, a good example if DJ Kool Herc, one of the god fathers of hip hop, recently needed to campaign for donations to pay medical bills since he was broke.
here is tr1ps poker table
http://www.pokertableratings.com/overview/grandmaces
http://www.pokertableratings.com/overview/trizip
he has made over 300k playing poker, he would be lucky to even grace that much over his long cs 1.6 career that spanned close to 10 years.
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I only consider someone a progamer if playing is their full-time profession and primary source of income from salary or prize earnings.
For example, Draco and Mondragon were some of the best players of their era, but only Draco was a progamer because he played for OGN Sparkyz whereas Mondragon played while going to school.
Fast-forward to today: the lack of pro licenses and more developed foreigner scene make the difference between pro and not-pro less clear in SC2 than in BW. However it is clear that someone like IdrA, who gets a salary and plays full-time in the game's biggest league, is a progamer.
Simply put, if you have to do school or work outside playing to support yourself financially (this includes casting or teaching) you are not a progamer.
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reminds me of Jazz musicians... or really any musician outside of the popular music circuit.. You make 95% of your money from teaching.. and the rest of the money comes from the very small pay you get from shows (relate to tournaments)..
Great, my two biggest passions gets me no money in life. haha.
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It's very top heavy. Salaries from some teams can be huge. Grubby and Moon are examples of players who have made 6 figures from just salaries.
I am sure that some of the people doing lessons are making good money too. I am sure incontrol would be living very comfortably off of lessons alone.
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Different game and all, but I know for a fact that some wow pve people actually could make a decent living of raiding and leading the guild. I assume If they can, sc2 people should defiantly be able to. Requires more skill and way more entertainment value. Tho not sure about exposure vs the back then most well know guild for example. It all depends on sponsors who are backing you up.
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On February 02 2011 07:58 Tenks wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 07:55 TT1 wrote:
casters make like 10x more money than top gamers Which seems pretty ass backwards, tbh.
Of course it is backwards, but casters control the main money making venues (tournaments, Youtube, etc). On a logical level this sucks because casters wouldn't have a business if top players weren't willing to play. But the situation wont change unless players organized themselves into some kind of union. And even that is likely to fail because there are a million other people willing to play...
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The only way financial stability would ever come would be to Organize the game as a legitimate sport with media deals, including networks, sponsors, etc. Without viewers and good ratings on Television, there is no financial stability.
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iNcontroL has 1081 hours of coaching listed on gosucoaching, assuming 800 lessons at his old rate of 30, 200 at his rate of 50, and now 81 at his rate of 70, that is at least 40,000 dollars in the last year or less that gosucoaching has really been up. Also he's booked until March 4th at 70$ an hour. This seems financially stable to me, the incredibly difficult part is getting there, for example: inKa 502 hours @ 30 an hour is only $15,000 in lets assume roughly a year: you just have to keep in mind that coaching is a job high in supply and middlish in demand, leading to generally low prices. If you were entering into the field of coaching now, as an unestablished name you could really only charge 10 bucks an hour or so because you are not popular, imagine how much Huk could charge for lessons. Lessons are a nice way to make income but you really have to work the community if you want to live off of it: i.e. iNcontroL.
Next you must consider what the team's payout is, it seems to me that a team like root-gaming doesn't have very much money to throw towards player salary, but I get the feeling that to these guys, a little means better than nothing. The fact of the matter is that there are no large companies sponsoring SC2, as there is not enough publicity to warrant it; therefore if you want to make money as a pro gamer HELP E-SPORTS GROW!! The moment there are 100,000 people watching GOM at 3am, is the moment that it will be taken seriously for sponsorship. But it seems to me that teams probably pay there players roughly 5-15 thousand dollars a year, as that is slightly less then the minimum wage annually on a 40 hour work week. Obviously it must be worked out in a team that someone like Idra gets more money than Machine as he wins more tournaments this way. In summary, I expect it to be less then minimum wage on a 40 hour work week, but with coaching and tournament wins approximately = to minimum wage; and entering into a more comfortable 30,000+ salary depending on the players popularity and coaching.
TL;DR: probably 5-15 grand a year, more with tournament results, and into the 30+ range with popularity and coaching
Edit: all speculation
As for caster's, they probably make a little above minimum wage annually due to the fact that they are sort of "sponsored" by youtube or the specific tournament wanting them to cast it. Caster's bring notoriety to a tournament, Day9 casting Dreamhack and IEM was a major reason to watch it, and a major way people knew where to find it/ how to watch it. While casting does not take as much skill as playing, it is still difficult to be good at, just watch any stream (including mine) where the person tries to cast, it takes a very specific personality to be entertaining and informative and not just one or the other. I cannot speculate on exact amounts given to casters as I have no frame of reference, but it is probably within 5-10 thousand dollars of the players annually.
I think the key to it all is GOMtv's ticket sales, if they can sell a huge number of tickets then they can attract NA sponsors (if their PR team is any good) and help it take off stateside
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On February 02 2011 08:36 [Atomic]Peace wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 07:58 Tenks wrote:On February 02 2011 07:55 TT1 wrote:
casters make like 10x more money than top gamers Which seems pretty ass backwards, tbh. Of course it is backwards, but casters control the main money making venues (tournaments, Youtube, etc). On a logical level this sucks because casters wouldn't have a business if top players weren't willing to play. But the situation wont change unless players organized themselves into some kind of union. And even that is likely to fail because there are a million other people willing to play...
It's not backwards at all. Players would have no prize money if there was nobody watching. And being a good caster takes talent and work just like being a player.
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I'd like to throw in that a lot of pro or top gamers in NA already have or are getting a 4-year college degree. Its amazing that they can keep the talent that they have while in school + part time jobs, etc etc.
I think the only way to make "consistent" money is to train, a lot... But then even still it might not even be that great. I also agree that getting a legit salary job is more important.
I think only the top 0.01% can truly make it a living for a few years. Then you have situations like fatal1ty who have made it a lifetime career by owning a company.
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On February 02 2011 08:35 Mithriel wrote:
I know for a fact that some wow pve people actually could make a decent living of raiding and leading the guild.
Those few are a handful out of many thousands of players who devote their entire lives to the game in a way many SC2 players would find blindingly mind-numbing, but yes it's possible.
As for whether coaching is worth the money, it's all relative. I'd say anyone with a decent job could certainly afford an hour every week or two with a coach, and to be honest it probably would be worth doing just to help support a committed top-level player. The main thing I'd expect such a coach to be able to provide is prioritizing what to work on next, like "ok your macro's good enough, but you repeatedly do this or that really stupid thing that you need to correct."
I personally haven't pursued it because I'd rather come into that situation being sure I've done my level best to make the most of the resources I have available on my own, and I don't know that I can say that yet.
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coaching is where the money is at. Tournaments are too infrequent/inconsistent - prizes are paid too late (I still havn't been paid for NYC IEM in october which is around $1500) as well as the fact that if you don't win you basically get shafted in terms of money earned.
Coaching + youtube partnership + streaming ad revenue. If you just want to play and make enough money to survive gl - the scene isn't really there yet.
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On February 02 2011 07:57 Tenks wrote:
ThisIsJimmy is probably the most well off progamer because he works a normal 9-5 as a software developer and also plays SC2.
Haha with the amount I make from SC2 I would not even consider myself a "progamer". The only players making a decent (more then full time minimum wage) amount of money in NA would be players who coach A LOT and players who are winning the biggest tournaments.
Right now, you just don't play SC2 for the money at all... you need to be doing something else in addition or you will be screwed. For Brood War players, this is nothing new 
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This is what my father said about SC2 and boxer
"So this Boxer guy just got a contract for 170K USD a year, and that might be one of the highest salary. There are 25000ish medical students in the US each year, and each one of them, once graduate residency, will earn at least 150K, and more depend on speciality"
I am glad I picked my path, and it wasn't progaming. It takes intelligence to game well, intelligence that can be used to do other things.
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I don't think making SC2 your job is a good idea. Instead, treat it as a hobby. Let the hobby develop, and if you find yourself doing good, try out a few tournaments. If you do well in those, go to larger tournaments, etc, devote more time.
I think you have to realize, the majority of pros probably maintain a 2nd income of sorts. You really have to be the cream of the crop to rely solely on SC2
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On February 02 2011 08:41 Bosu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 08:36 [Atomic]Peace wrote:On February 02 2011 07:58 Tenks wrote:On February 02 2011 07:55 TT1 wrote:
casters make like 10x more money than top gamers Which seems pretty ass backwards, tbh. Of course it is backwards, but casters control the main money making venues (tournaments, Youtube, etc). On a logical level this sucks because casters wouldn't have a business if top players weren't willing to play. But the situation wont change unless players organized themselves into some kind of union. And even that is likely to fail because there are a million other people willing to play... It's not backwards at all. Players would have no prize money if there was nobody watching. And being a good caster takes talent and work just like being a player.
I'm not saying casters shouldn't make money. I know it takes work. In fact, clearly it's harder than being a progamer because there are many excellent players but very few good casters. But when a caster casts an amazing replay by two top players, the players get no share of the ad revenue. Doesn't seem right to me.
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On February 02 2011 08:13 2GRe-Play- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 07:55 TT1 wrote:
casters make like 10x more money than top gamers yeah but u cant have fun while casting but playing yes :D
idiot
User was warned for this post
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EPT
