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Jarmam
Denmark140 Posts
On September 02 2010 05:53 Pepe- wrote: This data was took by the ingame help >.< The data is wrong according to any source I can find. If Carriers had 2,5 times the DPS of a fully charged voidray against any units without armor, then, no matter how Starcraft works, they would be seen more than every 50th game. | ||
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terranghost
United States980 Posts
On September 02 2010 05:56 Grummler wrote: So, you have read my last sentence. Awesome. Or maybe you read the rest too, but dont want to discuss about it, cause trolling is so much easier. This. While you are correct in this reasoning (and believe most people here realize that) dps information is still good to have. Zerglings with adrenal glands may be able to kill shit fast but who cares if one storm anhilates the whole bunch and you lose all of your dps instantly? There are still a variety of things one can take out of this information. (Btw your opponent is not always going to have templar ready for the immediate storm) The statement I am about to make could be made without this fancy chart but I will make it anyway. It is common knowledge the the immortal is very good versus armored targets. But my opponent is going all broodlords. Even though they are armored it does me no good since immortals cannot attack air. But say I notice he is going very heavy with lings so my gateway/warpgates are going to be pumping out primarily zealots. Well a ranged unit would be good to throw in here as I could shoot over my zealots and add additional dps (kill shit faster). What can I add? Stalkers? No than I have less zealots. What about an immortal? Well to make it simple look at the chart the immortal is exactly double that of a stalker as far as gas and minerals go so I am just going to look at the first dps column and the immortals dps vs light targets is also exactly double that of the stalker. So in short the immortal is the cost and damage of 2 stalkers. (this for the time being excludes that they have about 3x the health and their special shield.) The immortal does not clog my my gateways and I can get ranged support it just as fast. Against heavy zealot numbers an obvious transition for my zerg buddy would be roaches but you already have the immortals to help take care of said roaches. He decides to go air you have all the gateways for stalkers already and your immortals can just sit back for a bit. Yes there are a million and one factors that go into a strategy game to decide who wins you mentioned a few of them. Cost splash harassment the list goes on. The idea of a dps list not to get too drawn into it and take out of it what information you can. What be relevant for whatever situation you are up against. | ||
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MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
On September 02 2010 05:45 Buddhist wrote: Adrenal should increase dps by 20%. I think it's bugged or something though, according to some post on TL. Negatory. Adrenal decreases attack time by 20%, which is not the same as increasing damage by 20%. | ||
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terranghost
United States980 Posts
On September 02 2010 07:03 Jarmam wrote: The data is wrong according to any source I can find. If Carriers had 2,5 times the DPS of a fully charged voidray against any units without armor, then, no matter how Starcraft works, they would be seen more than every 50th game. Think about it. What other factors could go into this? Possibly the build time of the carrier vs that of the voidray. The larger income neccacery to produce said carriers. Possibly because vikings and corruptors do very well against carriers. Making voids a better investment in more situations. (and before anyone says this yes I do realize both of these units can combat voids to a degree however, the corruptors and vikings are both better vs carriers) Also supply might have something to do with it as remember towards endgame supply is the resource that limits you the most and if I feel I can do more damage to my opponent with 6 supply worth of voids then a carrier well. | ||
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HardcoreBilly
United States222 Posts
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Jarmam
Denmark140 Posts
On September 02 2010 07:17 terranghost wrote: Think about it. What other factors could go into this? Possibly the build time of the carrier vs that of the voidray. The larger income neccacery to produce said carriers. Possibly because vikings and corruptors do very well against carriers. Making voids a better investment in more situations. (and before anyone says this yes I do realize both of these units can combat voids to a degree however, the corruptors and vikings are both better vs carriers) Also supply might have something to do with it as remember towards endgame supply is the resource that limits you the most and if I feel I can do more damage to my opponent with 6 supply worth of voids then a carrier well. A Corrupter has 200 health and 2 armor, meaning the Carrier suffers a 40% damage penalty assuming equal upgrades. At the stated 80 dps in-game-time (which is 106,6 dps real-time), Carriers would do roughly 64 damage per second real-time to a Corrupter, killing it in ~3 seconds. Corrupters would deal roughly 14 DPS real-time to a Carrier, meaning that 3 of them would require 8,3 seconds to kill a Carrier *if* the Carrier had no armor (it has 2). Carriers would, in other words, deal perfectly well with Corrupters both cost-to-cost and food-to-food. With 106,6 dps, a Carrier would kill one Viking per roughly 1,17 seconds (which is what a Carrier does to the first Viking it targets if it has the catapult-upgrade) with no upgrade difference between +dmg and +armor. In other words, Carriers would *demolish* Vikings without the slightest concievable fight. There is no way 3 Vikings can kill a Carrier in ~3,4 seconds even if none of them died. Hell, even 5 Vikings would probably lose to a single Carrier that doesnt even have upgrades (which Carriers scale with very well percentagewise). The data provided in the OP has to be wrong on the Carrier to some extent. I dont know about the Spinecrawlers. I'd be happy to discuss Carrier strategy elsewhere than here - my beef is with the stated dps-value alone. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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figq
12519 Posts
On September 02 2010 06:29 danl9rm wrote: 0.5, as quoted.nothing ever has 0 dps. dmg is minimized at 1. On September 02 2010 06:40 Pepe- wrote: The main limiting factor is the speed at which you gather the resource, and there is precise calculation for it, as quoted. Also, as Zerg you don't depend on Nx buildings to increase the production speed, and as any race at some point this is fixed, and you mainly count the unit cost itself.Nah, it doesnt... buildings cost far more minerals than gas. It would just be more than 2 if you are producing mass archons or anything like that. If you are massing Zealots it would get below 1 and if you are producing mass reapers it would maybe go up to 2. | ||
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TSL-Lore
United States412 Posts
On September 02 2010 07:38 Jarmam wrote: A Corrupter has 200 health and 2 armor, meaning the Carrier suffers a 40% damage penalty assuming equal upgrades. At the stated 80 dps in-game-time (which is 106,6 dps real-time), Carriers would do roughly 64 damage per second real-time to a Corrupter, killing it in ~3 seconds. Corrupters would deal roughly 14 DPS real-time to a Carrier, meaning that 3 of them would require 8,3 seconds to kill a Carrier *if* the Carrier had no armor (it has 2). Carriers would, in other words, deal perfectly well with Corrupters both cost-to-cost and food-to-food. With 106,6 dps, a Carrier would kill one Viking per roughly 1,17 seconds (which is what a Carrier does to the first Viking it targets if it has the catapult-upgrade) with no upgrade difference between +dmg and +armor. In other words, Carriers would *demolish* Vikings without the slightest concievable fight. There is no way 3 Vikings can kill a Carrier in ~3,4 seconds even if none of them died. Hell, even 5 Vikings would probably lose to a single Carrier that doesnt even have upgrades (which Carriers scale with very well percentagewise). The data provided in the OP has to be wrong on the Carrier to some extent. I dont know about the Spinecrawlers. I'd be happy to discuss Carrier strategy elsewhere than here - my beef is with the stated dps-value alone. Keep in mind that the way a carrier deals damage is through small, 5 damage attacks. Meaning, if the target had 1 armor, the total damage dealt by the carrier would be reduced by 20%. If it had 2 armor (like buildings) it would be reduced by 40%. Corruptors have 2 armor i believe, reducing carrier damage significantly. | ||
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ALARM
Germany63 Posts
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
Useless statistics are useless. | ||
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Buddhist
United States658 Posts
On September 02 2010 07:08 MangoTango wrote: Negatory. Adrenal decreases attack time by 20%, which is not the same as increasing damage by 20%. Oh, then just: .7*.8 = .56 .7 / .56 = 1.25 25% more dps. I think it's actually bugged to be .59 delay with adrenal, though. Not sure. That would be only about 19% increase in dps. On September 02 2010 08:09 ZlaSHeR wrote: Terran also has the lowest hp per food units, and has the slowest production time overall in a long macro game. Useless statistics are useless. That's a pretty sensationalist statement. | ||
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KillerPlague
United States1386 Posts
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Pepe-
Germany87 Posts
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SwaY-
Dominican Republic463 Posts
On September 02 2010 05:35 Buddhist wrote: holy shit @ carriers twice the dps of fully charged void rays against armored targets, and they do that much damage vs. any target, AND they can kite every ground unit in the game, and they do 60% more dps with 3 weapon upgrades. At 3 weapon ups, it's 128 dps for carrier vs. about 52 dps for charged VR on armored target. Like, wow. I need to start making some viable into-carriers builds. Yep I've recently started to incorporate them into PvT earlier than before and I've had great success, def recommend you tinkering around it. I strongly believe its the units that will change PvT meta game in the coming months/years. | ||
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Pepe-
Germany87 Posts
Their armor or life? | ||
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RoarMan
Canada745 Posts
And wow that Rocket Turret has a lot of DPS rofl, no wonder my Mutas are getting melted  On September 02 2010 08:09 ZlaSHeR wrote: Terran also has the lowest hp per food units, and has the slowest production time overall in a long macro game. Useless statistics are useless. Yea I'd really like to see where this statement is coming from please, I think someone's shocked that the Terran DPS is so high. But what's really surprising is Zerglings with Adrenaline Glands having only 1 more point of DPS, that's not even like a 20% increase in DPS. | ||
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Grond
599 Posts
On September 02 2010 08:31 Pepe- wrote: Updated it... but I think Spinecrawler is fine :O Nice :-) Now keep going, I'm curious how things look at gas = 2.5 minerals. | ||
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MaiBoA38
United States108 Posts
2. Am i reading this right , and does an 8 interceptor carrier do less dps than a 4 interceptor carrier? 3. Holy crap turrets are dirty... | ||
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whateversclever
United States197 Posts
No Archons!? | ||
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