How do I teach a new player - Page 3

Telcontar

United Kingdom16710 Posts

August 25 2010 07:48 GMT

#41

i guess in general you can break it down to 2 things. learning the game mechanics and the strategies. you cant be a good player without both but if i were you i'd start with the former. teach him about hotkeys, control groups and the basic interfaces. when he's more competent in that area, you can start teaching some basic build orders and have him practice on getting it right. it'll be hard but as long as he wants to improve and puts the time and effort in, he will get better.

jeebuzzx

Canada365 Posts

August 25 2010 07:50 GMT

#42

build order concept is a good start i think

Bhaalgorn

Slovenia214 Posts

August 25 2010 08:54 GMT

#43

He should do the beginner challenges to know what unit is good against what and play against easy AI for a few days to get the feeling of the game.

MasterFischer

Denmark836 Posts

August 25 2010 09:25 GMT

#44

Has he even done the challeges in singleplayer?

If not, then make him do those, maybe on gold first... they really help out.. they even helped me somewhat, although not that much..

then tell him to watch replays, casts like day[9] AND your personal experience..

ASk if how much he wants to invest into SC2, time, engagement and so forth.. theres really no use trying to be good if the game doesnt get your attention in the long run.

maybenexttime

Poland5906 Posts

August 25 2010 09:34 GMT

#45

xzidez

Sweden147 Posts

August 25 2010 10:02 GMT

#46

I think you guys are thinking way ahead. I teached my friend from bronze right into platinum without any counter units or scouting... : p

What I did is first I told him not to scout or anything else than just constant worker production. Dont listen to all ideas of counters and strategies that you hear. only macro. Once he got that I explained why its better to have 10 zealots than 100 minerals in the bank.

Now he pretty much mass stalkers down anyone below platinum without any problems...

I recently introduced him to scouting.. Explaining that he should scout when he knows what he is looking for, if he only scouts because people say that he should scout it doesn't help a shit. It only worsen his macro. So now he now only scout vs zerg and randoms.

(Because that stalkers doesnt cut it if zerg decides to zergling, if not, he can go with his usual build)

What I'm trying to say is; take it in small steps!
At lower level macro beats everything. It doesn't matter what units they have when you can just overwhelm them with tons of more units, so id suggest you start here.

Edit: (It might be worth to mention that I have his screen on TV while he plays, so I can relax and still help him out with basic stuffs..)

MarsAttacks

20 Posts

August 25 2010 13:20 GMT

#47

play Co-op against IA (raise the level over time)

split the jobs : have him focus on 1 thing on each games :
-have him manage your bases correctly
-while you are at the battle xD (you may want to build the right structure and his just is to spend all the money, with time, just say "i need AA, i need dps support" then "colossus spotted, need counter" and let him guess which building is should focus on production

then reverse role : you provide units, and he just have to move&attak what you send him (as you will have the easy task, you may want to scout also and hint him with good timing)

Seraph.yongweihua

Canada224 Posts

August 25 2010 17:10 GMT

#48

I just told my friend to build stuff, just always be building stuff. On our first game together, I saw him building 3 barracks right off with a healthy group of marines already and I told him he was already better than 50% of players for having done that.

He actually almost took that game from me cause I was playing extremely slow and he actually attacked instead of staying inside his base all day.

Chriamon

United States886 Posts

August 25 2010 17:19 GMT

#49

I think the #1 thing to do is hotkeys. If your friend is a mouse only player, It wont matter how good his strategies are, he will always suck. SO, focus on learning all of the hotkeys, and using the keyboard as much as possible. Then, once hes got that down (doesnt have to check hotkeys anymore, just knows what builds what) teach him an easy build, like 4 gate for example, have him practice that build and focus on constant workers, and executing the build. Then he can refine the build, make sure he doesn't get supply capped and such, then practice multitasking, and at this point he should be able to teach himself.

Hider

Denmark9448 Posts

August 25 2010 17:29 GMT

#50

I remember when I started playing my first rts somewhat seriosuly (wc3), I started by playing a little against the computer. Then I read a standard BO, on what heroes to get, and how I should creep just when my hero came out. From then on I should build unit A, and if I saw my opp. doing strategy X I could build Unit B.

The above was very simple and easy to remember, though still took a little practice to be good at. But tell him to do a standard bo/strat every game. Like mass zealots/stalkers. Nothing else. Let him do it like 10-20 times, so he learns to micro. From then on you can teach him how to change his strat based on a little scouting and so on. IMO just need a standard bo, when you start the game, because you have no idea what do when you just started out. So if you dont have to worry about strategy/BO you can focus on macro/micro. You cant focus on all 3 things when your new.

Phayze

Canada2029 Posts

August 25 2010 18:09 GMT

#51

show him the thoughthammer.

Konsume

Canada466 Posts

August 25 2010 19:44 GMT

#52

Tell him to play terran.... PROBLEM SOLVED! :D hahaha j/k j/k don't ban me

but yah... the best way to help a new commer would be to start him by the basics (aka learning the shortkeys... anyone remember when they 1st saw a keybord?? ouch).

Than it would be the build orders...

and finaly micro and all the things that separate a silver player to a diamond one.

Reason.SC2

Canada1047 Posts

August 25 2010 19:52 GMT

#53

I would set him up with a solid/generic build for each MU and have him practice *only those builds*.

TBH I wouldn't recommend a lot of ladder play since bronze through platinum tends to be extremely cheesy and it will lead to ridiculous builds based on cheese paranoia. My friend who is also trying to learn (by laddering) almost always goes 1 base all-in and cuts workers at the start to get certain key defenses out (but does not attack) just to be safe from other 1 base all-ins and cheeses. Obviously this is very very bad lol.

Just do customs and hit him with a variety of commonly done strats and give advice as required. Once he's good enough to not get crushed by pretty much anything you do have him hop on the ladder and mass game. Make sure that he reviews replays in which he loses to determine what went wrong (Trump does this very effectively). If he loses and he doesn't know why, have him send over the rep and go over it with him.

bnanaPEEL

Canada138 Posts

August 25 2010 20:02 GMT

#54

I went over to my friend's house and we took turns each playing 1vs1s. He was able to see how I played and we had the opportunity to discuss what units are best in each situation (we both played the same race at the time).

With a bit of coaching my technique made him jump from copper to gold (in the beta).

deadjon

United States83 Posts

August 25 2010 20:06 GMT

#55

On August 25 2010 10:43 fabiano wrote:
Teach him the basics and explain the reason behind them

- Constantly build workers because it raises your income and eventually you will have to expand
- Why to build depot at 10 supply and why you should never be supply capped
- Why build marauders when you see opponent army stalker heavy
- Why its important to always scout

etc

this kind of very basic might be useful when teaching someone with 0 RTS experience

I was (and likely still am) a SC2 newbie, I watched Day9, and learned the above. Likely the most important things to learn once you grasp stuff like hot keys and get a little muscle memory. Good tips.

Siffer

United States467 Posts

August 25 2010 20:08 GMT

#56

On August 25 2010 14:43 Carthage wrote:

Show nested quote +

I am adamantly against this. This doesn't sound like teaching at all, it just sounds like basic practice.

That is the point. His buddy is in bronze and is just too slow. Teaching build orders, timings, counters, etc. mean nothing until he is able to execute them.

Morphs

Netherlands645 Posts

August 25 2010 20:09 GMT

#57

I'd say the best thing is to first teach him one easy strat. It doesn't even have to be a 'strat' to TL-standards, as longs as it's just one, simple thing.

I thought my flatmate how to mass marines. Just make SVCs, barracks and marines. Marines are easy since they can shoot ground and air and you don't even have to go gas.

Really, the MOST important is to break everything in single pieces. Be aware of the difference between you and him. EVERYTHING is new to him, so even saying that he needs to build a supply depot because he is supply blocked is actually four things (the supply-mechanic, the function of a supply depot, how to build a supply depot, what it costs).

Nice about teaching people is that you also learn a lot. For example how you can make things clearer by actually saying less (hardest thing to achieve in the world).... look at how much I already told in this post..

warshop

Canada490 Posts

August 25 2010 20:57 GMT

#58

This is my opinion, but I think Day9 mentioned something close to this.

You should play against him 1v1 and have him do one simple build. Have him repeat that build until he's comfortable with it (he'll be a lot more solid). Also, after each match, both watch the replay and give out the major flaws.

That's what worked with me :D

Carthage

105 Posts

August 25 2010 21:10 GMT

#59

On August 26 2010 05:08 Siffer wrote:

Show nested quote +

That is the point. His buddy is in bronze and is just too slow. Teaching build orders, timings, counters, etc. mean nothing until he is able to execute them.

I completely disagree. Through nothing but watching pro games on youtube and reading a summary on the starcraft university course I was able to get into the top leagues, despite playing very, very little. I believe that no one is incapable of holding the basic APM necessary to play at a decent level, they just need to know where to put those APM, and why they are doing it.

I completely despise this super high level approach of "Don't stop making workers or units and you'll do fine". That's just pathetic. When used in schools, this method is awful. You get no free thinkers, no experimentation, no questions, just garbage formulas and very limited improvement.

lindn

Sweden833 Posts

August 25 2010 21:12 GMT

#60

put a electrical wire on him and everytime he does something wrong he gets 100 000 volts trough his heart.

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