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How do I teach a new player - Page 2

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habermas
Profile Joined June 2010
United Kingdom304 Posts
August 25 2010 02:45 GMT
#21
1. Complete Single Player.
2. Play all the challenges. It takes time for a new player, but it's very beneficial in terms of some basic understanding of the game.
3. Learn hotkeys and macro. Screw micro, tactics and all the stuff, just make sure he knows the basics.

That's gold in the worst case up to low diamond if he's got it right.

Best way I've found is to play with them and then commentate the replays together. E.g. "Next time make sure you build a pylon here so you can see the drop coming", "Don't send all of your units into he's base even if you've won the battle; rather take an opportunity to expand" "It seems like when you attack you totally forget to macro. You should rather let your units die but make sure you're spending all your money." etc.
comis
Profile Joined April 2010
United States333 Posts
August 25 2010 02:51 GMT
#22
Invite him to party and watch some replays together

...

onvm.
dudeman001
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2412 Posts
August 25 2010 02:53 GMT
#23
First off, make him watch Day[9]'s dailies :D So incredibly useful learning tools.

Second, follow Day[9]'s tips for improving your gameplay. The two that come immediately to mind are to constantly producing workers and to try and keep your money below 500. That's all you have to tell someone to make them go into a frenzy.

My own recommendation is to practice one thing every match he plays, probably against computers. For one game only focus on hotkeying to multiple hotkeys and just using them. Practice pressing 1a2a3a then pressing 5 to go back to macroing. Another game should focus on unit control when attacking enemy units. Another game should focus on building an expansion. Becoming proficient at all of these tasks requires training, and if you're new to Starcraft then you can't perfect them all simultaneously. Once your friends fingers FEEL better (and faster) then the real growth can take place.
Sup.
gamecrazy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States421 Posts
August 25 2010 03:02 GMT
#24
dudeman already game some excellent advice for getting your friend to learn mechanics. Try to keep his learning fun, have him play some practice games hopefully with people around his level. The biggest mistake I made trying to teach BW players is having their interest burn out b/c the game is too "hard." Of course, this is SC2 here, and the learning curve is not as steep. Good luck helping your buddy.
han.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States51 Posts
August 25 2010 03:04 GMT
#25
Teaching a player who is this bad a build order will do absolutely nothing.

Make him learn key-bindings and hotkeys first. Then teach him how to macro and rally units. Finally, once he's learned those two essential foundations give him an opening build order. If he has those three things he can spam his way into at least Gold league.

But as others have pointed out, he won't get better if he doesn't want to learn.
hallo~
Wartortle
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia504 Posts
August 25 2010 04:37 GMT
#26
get him to watch high level replay's with good commentary.
Opsis
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1 Post
August 25 2010 04:41 GMT
#27
I would tell him to basically play through the campaign first, get used to units and play a lot games versus AI.
Trebis
Profile Joined March 2010
United States182 Posts
August 25 2010 04:44 GMT
#28
Well, you could link him to my videos for one thing :-D My Fundamentals Series should be exactly what he needs (in my extremely biased opinion.)

But really, what you need to do is just emphasize the importance of macro to him. To a player at his level, if you can give him at least a solid opener to follow, and then tell him to constantly make workers while keeping his money low, he should be in good shape to improve his macro continuously.

Also, make sure he is using hotkeys and shortcuts for everything.

Don't bother worrying him with things like scouting or micro or timing--these things are much too advanced, and simply irrelevant until he has better macro.

MACRO MACRO MACRO
Are your friends all noobs? Send them to SC2 Noob School! www.youtube.com/sc2noobschool
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 25 2010 04:46 GMT
#29
It takes a player time to get used to the interface. Just have him mess around with hotkeys at his own pace before you really start training him.

For starters, macro should be the only thing you should work on. Try to make him very comfortable with using hotkeys. Observe him while he's playing, tell him what to hotkey, and literally say the hotkeys he should press when playing. So instead of saying "ZOMG BUILD MARINES!!", consider telling him "press 5 and 'a' three times" (or whatever the associated barracks hotkeys are). This will get him familiar with the keyboard and basic macro tasks.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Carthage
Profile Joined May 2010
105 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-25 04:51:07
August 25 2010 04:50 GMT
#30
First, have him play some games. You'll get no where unless he actually understands a little bit about the game. Campaign is nice, but it doesn't teach that much compared to a simple 1v1 match.

After he's played a few matches, it's time to delve into the very basics.

Here's an older post I made on the subject. Emphasis on the very low level stuff. None of this "a siege tank is good against marines!". Talk in VERY general terms, like "If I invest 200 resources into a unit that kills 300 resources of my opponents units, that's good". You need a strong base foundation. It'll take forever to learn basics if you delve into much more high level topics like matchup specific unit counters before talking about why counters are so important.

Older post:

I don't know if this will be helpful to anyone, but whatever, here it is:

I think a lot of people here are focusing too heavily on little details like build orders and other specifics rather than elaborating on the basics of the game itself. A lot of what I'm about to say is very intuitive to most people, but I found that reading about it put in theory terms helped me understand the game to the point where I was actually competent.

Remember that the game is all about using your resources to destroy the enemy.

From this, you realize that one easy way to win is to have more resources than the opponent. This is why you should almost never stop building workers. More workers = faster resource gathering = more units = awesome!

Then you also realize, if your opponent's workers die, he is gathering less than you! Easy win! This makes workers a prime target.

Another very important basic idea comes from this. If you have resources in the bank, they aren't helping. The only time you should have resources "building up" is so that you can spend it on something expensive, like a new command center/hatchery/nexus. Otherwise they aren't doing anything for you. If you find you are gathering faster than you are producing, invest in some more production facilities. Also, from this you learn that queuing up units is only slightly better than not having spent the resources at all, because until the unit is built, those resources were not helping you.

Then comes a simple, yet very deep question: I invested my resources and got an army. When should I fight my opponent with it?

When he comes knocking at your bases door, that is intuitively a must-fight time. If you don't, he will set you back in your resource gathering and production so far you will not be able to recover.

There is also the simple answer, "Attack when you are stronger than him". When your resource investments( units ) are at their strongest relative to the opponent, strike hard and fast. You have the advantage. Make him struggle to fend you off. Kill his army, kill his workers, win immediately or set him back enough to win easily soon.

When are you stronger than your opponent? After all, you were both smart people and making workers the whole time, so you both have just about the same amount of resources gathered and spent. There is no easy answer to this one. You must understand the strengths of units, the stats of units, the positions of units, and your opponents intentions and spending. If your opponent has invested his resources into some powerful late game strategy, while you've been spending on basic early units, you should be stronger than him early on, and get progressively weaker as his strategy enters it's prime moments. The optimal outcome is that you outright kill him before this time period, but equally acceptable is hurting him enough so that he is in fact NOT ahead of you later on because you slowed him down enough surpass his late game plan with your own. It is key that you learn what each race is capable of, when it is strongest, when it is weakest, when to expect them to attack, and when to attack them.

Another absolutely essential bit of knowledge is what investments, resource point for resource point, will give you an advantage over your opponent. If my opponent invests in an early second base and I get 8 more marines, why, I'm now 8 marines ahead of my opponent! I better destroy his second base before it gathers enough resources to put him ahead of me!

How do you know what to invest your resources in? Scouting! You must know what your opponent is up to. You must keep watch over his actions. If he gets a new base, you must know this. If he changes the units he builds, you must know! If you do not know what your opponent is doing, you cannot adapt, you cannot figure out when he is weakest/strongest, and all of your actions will be risks. That is simply unacceptable. Learn how to scout with a worker initially, and learn your races scouting techniques as well. It is absolutely essential to get ahead of your opponent.

Keep in mind this works both ways. You want your opponent to be as in the dark about your plans as possible. Hide units, hide teching, hide your army, misdirect him with a small amount of one unit when you have a huge army of a different type, etc. This can be devastating. If you hide that you are going air units, and your opponent confidently does not build anti air, that's almost a free win. If you hide your dark templar tech, and he gets no detection, free win again. If you get a second base and your opponent doesn't know about it until it's already put you far ahead of him in resources, free win!

It's all pretty basic really. Once you understand these very simple underlying ideas, everything else makes a lot of sense.

For example, build orders are simply time tested ways of investing your resources to get the most out of them. An early stalker against terran will make any resources he spent on reapers much less useful. Advantage: protoss. A mech build getting siege tanks against hydras makes their hydras almost useless, they will just die before getting in range. Advantage:Terran.

It is easy to understand why you shouldn't stick with just one build order if you understand the basics. If you have a nice hydra build, and your opponent counters and makes the hydras useless with siege tanks, your stubbornness has probably cost you the match, where you could have adapted in turn to defeat his tanks. His resource investment in tanks will do significantly more resource damage to you if you do not adapt properly.

All of this should be pretty obvious after a few games. Things like "if only I had known about the dark templar, I could have adapted!"

exarchrum
Profile Joined August 2010
United States491 Posts
August 25 2010 04:51 GMT
#31
A lot of things you might take for granted a new player won't think about.

For instance a friend and I were teaching another friend of ours how to play DOTA. Simple things like centering the screen on the action were somehow hard to grasp for him. Consequently we both got frustrated and gave up attempts trying to teach him. But it can be frustrating explaining concepts that seem extremely basic.
justin.tv/exarch watch me play!
JohannesH
Profile Joined September 2009
Finland1364 Posts
August 25 2010 04:56 GMT
#32
Dunno if it's the best way, but I'd start with explaining how RTS works fundamentally.

Basically tell him that it's a race to having a bigger economy/army. And that you must make the most use of everything you have - spend your resources as soon as you can, and on things that are the most cost-effective in the current situation, maximize the usefulness of your units with good maneuvering and micro, expand your economy whenever you can get away with it, attack whenever your opponent isn't appropriately prepared. And to SCOUT, to see whatever you should do.

Its up to him in the end though, whether he's interested in understanding the game and playing well.
If you have to ask, you don't know.
Alou
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States3748 Posts
August 25 2010 04:59 GMT
#33
2v2s. Seriously. Just keep him alive and let him play around. Tell him basic things but don't be overly complicated. Let him enjoy the game. Then get him into watching Daily's or streams or tournaments if he wants.
Life is Good.
Siffer
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States467 Posts
August 25 2010 05:38 GMT
#34
Just give him a guideline to follow. Don't be tryign to teach him how to do shit like 4warp push or why a pylon is built on 9.

Just sit him down in a lobby vs an AI and tell him something like "Objective is to constantly make probes,to get 2 gateways, and constantly make zealots. Try your best not to get supply blocked."

Dont have him focus on things like scouting(sounds bad but its a distraction), keeping money low, or expanding. Just have him make units.
silver_fox
Profile Joined June 2008
Canada243 Posts
August 25 2010 05:42 GMT
#35
On August 25 2010 11:17 chakk wrote:
i was in the same boat as ur freind.. i hadnt got a clue WTF i was doing

i watched day[9]'s back to basics video.

then i did 2v2 with a freind and he gave me a strat to do (build 4 warpgates and make a proxy pylon near their base) we obviously lost a few games but i kinda had fun teleporting a ton of zealots right into their base :D

and as day[9] says, mental checklist (1) am i making workers? (2) am i supply capped? (3) is my money low? (4) am i making units?

so i went from rank 82 [4-22] to rank 2 [47-45] :D
hope this helps



THIS. i can't stress this enough. i sent the same link to the back to basics video to a rank 100 bronze friend who literally started out 1-18... he now has an almost .500 record and told me that day9 video did wonders for him.
Carthage
Profile Joined May 2010
105 Posts
August 25 2010 05:43 GMT
#36
On August 25 2010 14:38 Siffer wrote:
Just give him a guideline to follow. Don't be tryign to teach him how to do shit like 4warp push or why a pylon is built on 9.

Just sit him down in a lobby vs an AI and tell him something like "Objective is to constantly make probes,to get 2 gateways, and constantly make zealots. Try your best not to get supply blocked."

Dont have him focus on things like scouting(sounds bad but its a distraction), keeping money low, or expanding. Just have him make units.


I am adamantly against this. This doesn't sound like teaching at all, it just sounds like basic practice.
MiyaviTeddy
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada697 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-25 05:54:12
August 25 2010 05:49 GMT
#37
Is he absolutely new? If he is, then I would tell him to go play singleplayer. Don't immediately teach him how to he pro at Starcraft yet.

As I have, let him have fun and explore the game at his pace. Once he's fully grasp the idea and the way RTS (or Starcraft) works, teach him the basics.

Then play a game with him. Let him do what he wants but you toy with him. Do it so that he has some success and some failure and talk about the game.

Great suggestions from everyone but I want the person to enjoy he game and enjoy learning the game, not go through practise chores to get better.
Aiyeeeee
Assymptotic
Profile Joined February 2009
United States552 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-25 06:33:45
August 25 2010 06:23 GMT
#38
I agree with the poster that said to avoid using jargon.

Instead of saying 'macro more' or scouting, say:

'don't stare at your units during a battle, build more stuff'

A LOT of new players watch a battle unfold and like the spectacle of units destroying each other. Next time you see an amateur replay where units engage, I promise you the production tab will be blank many times.

This is a common pitfall that many (even in platinum and low diamond) face. You never want to be sitting around idly.

To help him keep up his production, teach him hotkeys and explain their importance.
Pressing 6 for your production building and then 'A' to build the unit is much much easier than looking for it and then clicking the icon.

Other shortcuts such as double-clicking, shift-clicking, even attacking-moving are things that make the game so much easier. Make sure he knows these.
So close, and yet so far
Alizee-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States845 Posts
August 25 2010 06:27 GMT
#39
Gonna give you an advice who took my friend from complete rts newbie to diamond 2v2 with me. You need to do all the battles, meaning you get control every game. You helped with microing workers if harassed, you do the attacking. Your friend masses units and makes workers and expands. Overtime when his confidence goes up make him do more. It does work.
Strength behind the Pride
Bearigator
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States233 Posts
August 25 2010 07:28 GMT
#40
Every time I have ever had somebody ask me to help them get better, I tell them the same thing. Stop watching what is happening. Is there a fight? Look away. Building something? Look away. Low level players want to watch to make sure that worker starts making that building, or the units actually start shooting. If you can force them out of that habit, it helps a lot. They will lose sometimes because they can't micro at all when forcing them selves to never ever look at the fight, but once they get used to doing something while something else is happening, then they can learn to micro some and macro up in their base at the same time.

Also, if he plays T, make sure he builds with multiple builders. I have noticed tons of silver/bronze level T players who seem to think you can't build two buildings at once for some reason, or at least not two buildings of the same type at the same time.
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