On April 18 2011 23:07 Icx wrote: From how I understand it, the numbers at the top indicate the place they finished in.
So reading it it would mean that Terran had 28 people win a tournament, Protoss won 20 tournaments, Zerg won 26 tournaments, and then 32 second place finishes for Terran, 25 second place finishes for P, 15 for zerg, and so on.
That is my guess.
You right. It's from a german forum so i forgot to put it in context.
Okay, didn't know Terran gets less played than Zerg now oO, but Protoss still is the most played race in all leagues on all servers.
And what these statistics mean, is that Zerg has no worse tournament results than other races. Nothing else. But Idra thinks (honestly) Zerg can't win anything. He is not right.
While I understand your thought process, tournament results from a year ago do not really apply when discussing the current state of the game(pun intended). Also using statistics to prove a point is not really optimal, as they can be used to show whatever you want.
On April 18 2011 23:07 Icx wrote: From how I understand it, the numbers at the top indicate the place they finished in.
So reading it it would mean that Terran had 28 people win a tournament, Protoss won 20 tournaments, Zerg won 26 tournaments, and then 32 second place finishes for Terran, 25 second place finishes for P, 15 for zerg, and so on.
That is my guess.
You right. It's from a german forum so i forgot to put it in context.
Okay, didn't know Terran gets less played than Zerg now oO, but Protoss still is the most played race in all leagues on all servers.
And what these statistics mean, is that Zerg has no worse tournament results than other races. Nothing else. But Idra thinks (honestly) Zerg can't win anything. He is not right.
While I understand your thought process, tournament results from a year ago do not really apply when discussing the current state of the game(pun intended). Also using statistics to prove a point is not really optimal, as they can be used to show whatever you want.
page 1 is not from a year. its from the last month.an what do we see? First place: 13T, 10P, 14Z,
Second place: 15T, 10P, 12Z,
While i agree that it doesn't say much, it says still much more than Idras pointless whine.
On April 18 2011 23:07 Icx wrote: From how I understand it, the numbers at the top indicate the place they finished in.
So reading it it would mean that Terran had 28 people win a tournament, Protoss won 20 tournaments, Zerg won 26 tournaments, and then 32 second place finishes for Terran, 25 second place finishes for P, 15 for zerg, and so on.
That is my guess.
You right. It's from a german forum so i forgot to put it in context.
Okay, didn't know Terran gets less played than Zerg now oO, but Protoss still is the most played race in all leagues on all servers.
And what these statistics mean, is that Zerg has no worse tournament results than other races. Nothing else. But Idra thinks (honestly) Zerg can't win anything. He is not right.
Those stats don't mean anything. Look here, I picked a random tournament from that list that a Zerg won.
In the finals a Zerg beat a Protoss called "Lobber". He's a masters Protoss, how does him losing to some other random Zerg say ANYTHING about balance? Last night Spanishiwa was beating Grandmaster players, presusmably much better than "Lobber", by just going mass queen + brood lords / ultras. Those player's performances as as irrevevant to players of IdrA's caliber as gold level players are. No disrespect to Lobber, but his performances are not relevant. That list also includes ZvT showmatches. Says a lot about ZvP balance doesn't it?
They prove that Zerg can win tournaments. Nothing else.That's the point and there is nothing to discuss. Just hear the SotG the time before the last (33), Idra clearly says Zerg can't win anything. Day9 tries to say the opposite, but he has no numbers. These are the numbers for him.)
(If you think i call these statistics because i think Protoss is up (lol) you are wrong.)
On April 18 2011 23:39 gnutz wrote: They prove that Zerg can win tournaments. Nothing else.That's the point and there is nothing to discuss. Just hear the SotG the time before the last (33), Idra clearly says Zerg can't win anything. Day9 tries to say the opposite, but he has no numbers. These are the numbers for him.)
(If you think i call these statistics because i think Protoss is up (lol) you are wrong.)
When he says that Zergs can't win tournaments do you think he means random online tournaments with no-name master league players he could beat in his sleep?
Ret wasn't there and as a European i don't consider Sheth, Machine and Slush big names, sorry.
DONT YOU SEE THAT THE ZERGS IN THESE LITTLE TOURNAMENTS ARE ALSO COMPLETELY UNKNOWN ZERGS??? For god's sake, of course Idra could win a little tournament, but if there is a tournament where two players less trained than Idra clash and the Zerg wins, it proves that they can win. And dare you to say "these Zergs must have a much higher skill than their opponents therefore." thats dumb.
On April 18 2011 23:07 Icx wrote: From how I understand it, the numbers at the top indicate the place they finished in.
So reading it it would mean that Terran had 28 people win a tournament, Protoss won 20 tournaments, Zerg won 26 tournaments, and then 32 second place finishes for Terran, 25 second place finishes for P, 15 for zerg, and so on.
That is my guess.
You right. It's from a german forum so i forgot to put it in context.
Okay, didn't know Terran gets less played than Zerg now oO, but Protoss still is the most played race in all leagues on all servers.
And what these statistics mean, is that Zerg has no worse tournament results than other races. Nothing else. But Idra thinks (honestly) Zerg can't win anything. He is not right.
Those stats don't mean anything. Look here, I picked a random tournament from that list that a Zerg won.
In the finals a Zerg beat a Protoss called "Lobber". He's a masters Protoss, how does him losing to some other random Zerg say ANYTHING about balance? Last night Spanishiwa was beating Grandmaster players, presusmably much better than "Lobber", by just going mass queen + brood lords / ultras. Those player's performances as as irrevevant to players of IdrA's caliber as gold level players are. No disrespect to Lobber, but his performances are not relevant. That list also includes ZvT showmatches. Says a lot about ZvP balance doesn't it?
Those stats don't mean anything. Look here, I picked a random tournament from that list that a Zerg won.
In the finals a Zerg beat a Terran called Happy. He's a grandmaster terran, not too long ago he was 1 in the world with a 95 percent winrate, how does him losing to some other random Zerg say ANYTHING about balance?
In the end as we can see from these results. Skill and luck are the biggest factor deciding a match. Not imbalance.
On April 18 2011 23:07 Icx wrote: From how I understand it, the numbers at the top indicate the place they finished in.
So reading it it would mean that Terran had 28 people win a tournament, Protoss won 20 tournaments, Zerg won 26 tournaments, and then 32 second place finishes for Terran, 25 second place finishes for P, 15 for zerg, and so on.
That is my guess.
You right. It's from a german forum so i forgot to put it in context.
Okay, didn't know Terran gets less played than Zerg now oO, but Protoss still is the most played race in all leagues on all servers.
And what these statistics mean, is that Zerg has no worse tournament results than other races. Nothing else. But Idra thinks (honestly) Zerg can't win anything. He is not right.
Those stats don't mean anything. Look here, I picked a random tournament from that list that a Zerg won.
In the finals a Zerg beat a Protoss called "Lobber". He's a masters Protoss, how does him losing to some other random Zerg say ANYTHING about balance? Last night Spanishiwa was beating Grandmaster players, presusmably much better than "Lobber", by just going mass queen + brood lords / ultras. Those player's performances as as irrevevant to players of IdrA's caliber as gold level players are. No disrespect to Lobber, but his performances are not relevant. That list also includes ZvT showmatches. Says a lot about ZvP balance doesn't it?
You would rather we take GSL results then?
Not relevant because GSL I & II are too old?
Then, perhaps you're saying there is only one GSL which is significant, in which there was a zerg in the finals? Maybe the Code S people July beat weren't "good" enough either.
Since that wouldn't make sense either, I can only assume you're blindly taking some pro zergs at their word.
(With apologies to Tyler, as I don't recall this series going well for him!
Could you please give me the bracket and not a game what could be from last year? I swear i watched for Zergs in this tournament, but i didn't detect Ret. If he was there, i am sorry.
It still says much if 1 good Zerg doesnt win while like 10 good Protoss and Terrans also didn't win
On April 18 2011 23:07 Icx wrote: From how I understand it, the numbers at the top indicate the place they finished in.
So reading it it would mean that Terran had 28 people win a tournament, Protoss won 20 tournaments, Zerg won 26 tournaments, and then 32 second place finishes for Terran, 25 second place finishes for P, 15 for zerg, and so on.
That is my guess.
You right. It's from a german forum so i forgot to put it in context.
Okay, didn't know Terran gets less played than Zerg now oO, but Protoss still is the most played race in all leagues on all servers.
And what these statistics mean, is that Zerg has no worse tournament results than other races. Nothing else. But Idra thinks (honestly) Zerg can't win anything. He is not right.
Those stats don't mean anything. Look here, I picked a random tournament from that list that a Zerg won.
In the finals a Zerg beat a Protoss called "Lobber". He's a masters Protoss, how does him losing to some other random Zerg say ANYTHING about balance? Last night Spanishiwa was beating Grandmaster players, presusmably much better than "Lobber", by just going mass queen + brood lords / ultras. Those player's performances as as irrevevant to players of IdrA's caliber as gold level players are. No disrespect to Lobber, but his performances are not relevant. That list also includes ZvT showmatches. Says a lot about ZvP balance doesn't it?
You would rather we take GSL results then?
Not relevant because GSL I & II are too old?
Then, perhaps you're saying there is only one GSL which is significant, in which there was a zerg in the finals? Maybe the Code S people July beat weren't "good" enough either.
Since that wouldn't make sense either, I can only assume you're blindly taking some pro zergs at their word.
You like putting words in people's mouths don't you?
just see the state of game for zerg now and you must agree that is something wrong most of time the zerg play a blind game and have to guess what to do...
On April 18 2011 23:57 gnutz wrote: Could you please give me the bracket and not a game what could be from last year? I swear i watched for Zergs in this tournament, but i didn't detect Ret. If he was there, i am sorry.
It still says much if 1 good Zerg doesnt win while like 10 good Protoss and Terrans also didn't win
Ret's ZvP style is also not at all like Idra's; Idra is basically doing (semi-)blind all-ins now (and having success, though it's obviously not exactly stable play, and judging from his comments he's not happy with it).
On April 19 2011 00:05 Potonho wrote: just see the state of game for zerg now and you must agree that is something wrong most of time the zerg play a blind game and have to guess what to do...
I think everyone (or nearly) agrees about that. The thing is talking about that here has just no point, it's just venting. TL is a place where people try to overcome that kind of difficulties. For complains, use the official forums xD
EPT
