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On February 10 2011 17:20 MIKster wrote:
I really couldn't bare Sundance after listening 30 minutes into the podcast. They way he never gave direct answers and beat around the bush… it hurt my brains. I kind of understand that a CEO can’t make a yes or no statement on subjects the company hasn’t decided on yet. But then not just drift off into 3 minute monologues about how everybody has to stick together and make it happen! We got the first time that you value the community or let’s say free help from them. And as a CEO… does he swear as much when he has a meeting with his sponsors? Or does he think that gamers talk that way all the time?
That's how I felt while listening to that, he bored me to fucking tears with his indirect non-answers like the ones that we got from MLG Lee when he was on the show. Him being on the show accomplished nothing.
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On February 10 2011 07:59 telfire wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=70545 -- Artosis put out a logical debate and plain and simple, got trolled. And now InControl is using the thread as an example of why Artosis shouldn't talk about balance. WHAT? You guys put forth no logic or reasoning to why Artosis shouldn't be talking about balance, you're acting like it's just obvious. It's not, their arguments are logical and if you want to counter them COUNTER THE ARGMENTS.
yea very logical..
you really didnt get the logic behind this thread and why incontrol mentions that to get a perfect clue about artosis balance thinkin?
i have no idea about broodwar and its balance, but artosis point in this thread is so non logical that it is funny again and thats maybe the reason why he got trolled there.
Artosis in this thread says that a map that perfectly balances race statistics is imbalanced, cause terran is not overpowered on it!!!
he says that terran was dominating at that time so they had somewhat of an advantage (again i dont know much about bw balance) and then there is a map that statistically proofed somehow negates that advantages and creates a nearly perfect balance and artosis says that the map is imbalanced cause terran has no advantage on that map compared to other races.
how can you possibly say that this is a valid balance discussion point??
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I dont get why people take everything InControl says so seriously. He's joking around most of the time.
Everytime InControl disagrees with somebody someone has to step forward and point out the logical flaws in his argument. Except he isnt actually trying to give a logical argument, he's just being funny and using sarcasm.
Just because i dont agree with everything that InControl says, i can still laugh at his jokes and realize that they are jokes. Apparently some other people cant : /
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On February 10 2011 08:59 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 08:16 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Sigh nevermind man. I now remember why I hate this thread and don't visit it anymore. This is the same reason why I love reading this thread. :D
i 50/50 agree, sometimes i just love reading all the retarded comments in this thread like you do  other times i become mad like Diamond and just leave without a gg 
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On February 10 2011 17:55 Deadlyfish wrote:
I dont get why people take everything InControl says so seriously. He's joking around most of the time.
Everytime InControl disagrees with somebody someone has to step forward and point out the logical flaws in his argument. Except he isnt actually trying to give a logical argument, he's just being funny and using sarcasm.
Just because i dont agree with everything that InControl says, i can still laugh at his jokes and realize that they are jokes. Apparently some other people cant : /
I think people take InControl seriously because he enjoys baiting people that things too seriously. For everyone's amusement, of course.
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On February 10 2011 17:55 Deadlyfish wrote:
I dont get why people take everything InControl says so seriously. He's joking around most of the time.
Everytime InControl disagrees with somebody someone has to step forward and point out the logical flaws in his argument. Except he isnt actually trying to give a logical argument, he's just being funny and using sarcasm.
Just because i dont agree with everything that InControl says, i can still laugh at his jokes and realize that they are jokes. Apparently some other people cant : /
We'll just have to keep having fun on their expense as they aren't understanding that Incontrol is just joking around (and hes damn good at it).
Also, you guys shouldn't complain about Sundance. Well yes maybe he wasn't that fun to listen to, but he has good intentions and sounds like a really nice guy who wants to make eSports big.
Huge thanks to everyone on the cast for making this happen. Really, really good show and i have enjoyed every single episode so far 
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I on the other hand found Sundance quite charismatic and thoroughly enjoyed his interview. Props to Jp for coming up with some good questions as well.
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On February 10 2011 18:32 KinosJourney2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 17:55 Deadlyfish wrote:
I dont get why people take everything InControl says so seriously. He's joking around most of the time.
Everytime InControl disagrees with somebody someone has to step forward and point out the logical flaws in his argument. Except he isnt actually trying to give a logical argument, he's just being funny and using sarcasm.
Just because i dont agree with everything that InControl says, i can still laugh at his jokes and realize that they are jokes. Apparently some other people cant : / We'll just have to keep having fun on their expense as they aren't understanding that Incontrol is just joking around (and hes damn good at it).
This is point! Its funny, but not ALL the time all day and when he sleeps at the same time as us all. Because it gets boring.
Despite me munching on his testicals a bit on this thread, im pretty sure hes as sound as a pound. A good bloke whos got talent, im sure hell become a casting legend. Hope so anyways.
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I thought Sundance sounded like a nice guy who is just trying to make his business be successful, so props to him for actually putting in the hard work. All his answers made sense to me, and I thought he was very honest and blunt when he needed to be. Basically they need money to run MLG and without sponsors (money) they can't do fuck all and the whole event would just die, so he has to work his ass off to convince companies that this event where a bunch of nerds play computer games is worth them putting thousands of dollars into. I think a lot of the people complaining about things just want it to be done without thinking about the reality of the situation the business is in.
It was freaking great when he said "I think Starcraft 2 is the most important game at MLG." and straight away inControl was in there with "So what's your favourite unit in the game?" and he was caught totally off guard.
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On February 10 2011 17:34 bmg4ever wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 07:59 telfire wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=70545 -- Artosis put out a logical debate and plain and simple, got trolled. And now InControl is using the thread as an example of why Artosis shouldn't talk about balance. WHAT? You guys put forth no logic or reasoning to why Artosis shouldn't be talking about balance, you're acting like it's just obvious. It's not, their arguments are logical and if you want to counter them COUNTER THE ARGMENTS. yea very logical.. you really didnt get the logic behind this thread and why incontrol mentions that to get a perfect clue about artosis balance thinkin? i have no idea about broodwar and its balance, but artosis point in this thread is so non logical that it is funny again and thats maybe the reason why he got trolled there. Artosis in this thread says that a map that perfectly balances race statistics is imbalanced, cause terran is not overpowered on it!!! he says that terran was dominating at that time so they had somewhat of an advantage (again i dont know much about bw balance) and then there is a map that statistically proofed somehow negates that advantages and creates a nearly perfect balance and artosis says that the map is imbalanced cause terran has no advantage on that map compared to other races. how can you possibly say that this is a valid balance discussion point??
Terran were dominating because the best players were playing Terran. His point was that the best players, who would be Terrans on average(according to him, and most people would probably agree for that particular point in Brood War history I think just looking at the names), were not seeing the win rates that they logically should have. They were seeing slightly reduced win rates which in turn brought their race in line with the others, statistically, when in fact it should not have been.
For instance, I play Protoss, and I'm terrible. Imagine if there were some way to create a map so imbalanced in favor of Protoss that I could beat MVP on it exactly one half of the time. It would statistically be a "balanced" map, but in reality, because the better player found it more difficult to win than normal, it would not be a balanced map.
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On February 10 2011 20:42 Turgid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 17:34 bmg4ever wrote:On February 10 2011 07:59 telfire wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=70545 -- Artosis put out a logical debate and plain and simple, got trolled. And now InControl is using the thread as an example of why Artosis shouldn't talk about balance. WHAT? You guys put forth no logic or reasoning to why Artosis shouldn't be talking about balance, you're acting like it's just obvious. It's not, their arguments are logical and if you want to counter them COUNTER THE ARGMENTS. yea very logical.. you really didnt get the logic behind this thread and why incontrol mentions that to get a perfect clue about artosis balance thinkin? i have no idea about broodwar and its balance, but artosis point in this thread is so non logical that it is funny again and thats maybe the reason why he got trolled there. Artosis in this thread says that a map that perfectly balances race statistics is imbalanced, cause terran is not overpowered on it!!! he says that terran was dominating at that time so they had somewhat of an advantage (again i dont know much about bw balance) and then there is a map that statistically proofed somehow negates that advantages and creates a nearly perfect balance and artosis says that the map is imbalanced cause terran has no advantage on that map compared to other races. how can you possibly say that this is a valid balance discussion point?? Terran were dominating because the best players were playing Terran. His point was that the best players, who would be Terrans on average(according to him, and most people would probably agree for that particular point in Brood War history I think just looking at the names), were not seeing the win rates that they logically should have. They were seeing slightly reduced win rates which in turn brought their race in line with the others, statistically, when in fact it should not have been. For instance, I play Protoss, and I'm terrible. Imagine if there were some way to create a map so imbalanced in favor of Protoss that I could beat MVP on it exactly one half of the time. It would statistically be a "balanced" map, but in reality, because the better player found it more difficult to win than normal, it would not be a balanced map.
sorry but that makes no sense Turgid, then the whole balance discussion will totally fall apart.
the problem with your example is, that a really top protoss on the same mechanical skill level then MVP then would win 90% of his games against T which would affect the statistics.
you could talk down any imbalance cry just by stating that the opponent is the better player then.
referring to artosis original thread he mentioned that the majority of the top 30 of the kespa ranking were terran back then. so whats more likely out of that statistics? that terran was favoured compared to the others races back then (doesn't matter if the reason were the maps or the game in general) or that just the better players played terran out of a whole bunch koreans that does not do anything else then playing starcraft the whole day.
if there is a map that throughout a pro gamer scene, where everybody commiting to this statistics dedicates so much effort into the game, that has a perfect 50:50 win distribution for every matchup then this is just perfect balance, nothing else!!
if you want a map that favors a race then you dont want to balance the game (which is always a combination of game itself and map), you want to imbalance it in favor of one race, like artosis in that original thread, who said that this map is imbalanced cause terran is not overpowered anymore on it, which in his opinion should still be the case. thats what his post says.
lets make an actual sc2 example out of your and artosis logic, i dont know if it is still true for actual tournament statistics, but some month ago defenitly the vast majority of tournament wins was still favoring terrans.
if blizzard or map makers would now change something to even that out, your and artosis logic of this old thread then would just say "now the game is imbalanced where all these races win tournaments, cause it is supposed to favor terrans winning tournaments"
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On February 10 2011 14:14 desrow wrote:
Has anyone made a playlist of the sotg pre show i think ill try to sigh
JP usually makes a playlist when he uploads them, doesn't he?
On February 10 2011 17:20 MIKster wrote:
I really couldn't bare Sundance after listening 30 minutes into the podcast. They way he never gave direct answers and beat around the bush… it hurt my brains. I kind of understand that a CEO can’t make a yes or no statement on subjects the company hasn’t decided on yet. But then not just drift off into 3 minute monologues about how everybody has to stick together and make it happen! We got the first time that you value the community or let’s say free help from them. And as a CEO… does he swear as much when he has a meeting with his sponsors? Or does he think that gamers talk that way all the time?
Dunno... I guess I'm comparing Sundance to other CEOs. Although he blabbered a lot, it was nowhere near to what I'm used to. But then again he didn't have to because most of the things he said were things most of the audience wanted to hear anyway.
As to whether he curses like that while negotiating with sponsors... He seems to be doing a good job with getting big companies on board, doesn't he? So, even if he curses, it's obviously not a problem.
On February 10 2011 17:55 Deadlyfish wrote:Just because i dont agree with everything that InControl says, i can still laugh at his jokes and realize that they are jokes. Apparently some other people cant : /
Welcome to the world of comedy. :D
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The purpose of balance is not to achieve 50/50 win statistics. Balance is to ensure that the person who plays better will win. I don't think I want to comment on that any further.
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On February 10 2011 20:42 Turgid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 17:34 bmg4ever wrote:On February 10 2011 07:59 telfire wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=70545 -- Artosis put out a logical debate and plain and simple, got trolled. And now InControl is using the thread as an example of why Artosis shouldn't talk about balance. WHAT? You guys put forth no logic or reasoning to why Artosis shouldn't be talking about balance, you're acting like it's just obvious. It's not, their arguments are logical and if you want to counter them COUNTER THE ARGMENTS. yea very logical.. you really didnt get the logic behind this thread and why incontrol mentions that to get a perfect clue about artosis balance thinkin? i have no idea about broodwar and its balance, but artosis point in this thread is so non logical that it is funny again and thats maybe the reason why he got trolled there. Artosis in this thread says that a map that perfectly balances race statistics is imbalanced, cause terran is not overpowered on it!!! he says that terran was dominating at that time so they had somewhat of an advantage (again i dont know much about bw balance) and then there is a map that statistically proofed somehow negates that advantages and creates a nearly perfect balance and artosis says that the map is imbalanced cause terran has no advantage on that map compared to other races. how can you possibly say that this is a valid balance discussion point?? Terran were dominating because the best players were playing Terran. His point was that the best players, who would be Terrans on average(according to him, and most people would probably agree for that particular point in Brood War history I think just looking at the names), were not seeing the win rates that they logically should have. They were seeing slightly reduced win rates which in turn brought their race in line with the others, statistically, when in fact it should not have been. For instance, I play Protoss, and I'm terrible. Imagine if there were some way to create a map so imbalanced in favor of Protoss that I could beat MVP on it exactly one half of the time. It would statistically be a "balanced" map, but in reality, because the better player found it more difficult to win than normal, it would not be a balanced map.
This is it. Now whether or not Boxer and Nada were better players or not is another topic but Artosis assumed they were and most seem to agree with him. His post made perfect sense.
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As someone who follows and studies business and politics, I found Sundance to be eminently understandable and very open, for a CEO. Maybe I'm just so used to corporation speak and jargon that I just get what Sundance was saying better. I have to say, he seems to be like an excellent businessman, which is what we NEED in the e-sports world, so that we can have a stable, profitable and attractive platform on which to present and play e-sports at a national/international level. The realities of putting together something like an MLG or GSL are enormous (I really felt for MLG Lee when Sundance started talking about internet at convention centers). The fact he ended his interview on "keep us honest" is really encouraging and he seems to be willing to engage with the community in a meaningful way, if we are constructive about it.
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Just for the next episode: Watch GSTL Finals. Please all of you. I would love to hear your opinions. 
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On February 10 2011 17:20 MIKster wrote:
I really couldn't bare Sundance after listening 30 minutes into the podcast. They way he never gave direct answers and beat around the bush… it hurt my brains. I kind of understand that a CEO can’t make a yes or no statement on subjects the company hasn’t decided on yet. But then not just drift off into 3 minute monologues about how everybody has to stick together and make it happen! We got the first time that you value the community or let’s say free help from them. And as a CEO… does he swear as much when he has a meeting with his sponsors? Or does he think that gamers talk that way all the time?
Not everyone is smart enough to comprehend Sundance, Also last time i checked SOTG was an uncensored podcast. Thought cussing was allowed.
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Well I guess my coaching house prediction was a little off!
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After 30 Minutes I had to skip ahead because I just didn't care about all the MLG stuff... Maybe interesting to some of the people attending, but I doubt it's what the audience of SOTG is really looking for...
They are looking for a kick ass podcast with gratuitous shit-talking, humor and Starcraft news&discussion...
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Liking the show guys keep it up :D ♥ Incontrol :D
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EPT
