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On October 17 2011 11:48 AxelTVx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 10:14 Renent wrote:
Curious how the crew writes this off as protoss still being UP....
I dont see why not. Yes this MLG had the most competition but the competition was at a B+ level skill from the koreans. We didnt see MVP MMA Nestea Losira or other amazing terrans that would be gategorized as A level. Not to take anything away from Huk's win but without Any of the A level players being at this MLG you cant change anything on balance atm. As much as foreigners dont want to admit it, korea is still further ahead. But now it's at a point where there are 3 levels of koreans. The bad, the good, and the amazing. At the level that our foreigners are at now, the TOP foreigners only qualify to be in the good section. As much as I want to say Huk is in the amazing section, he's not. Hopefully he will be one day and win a GSL.
Polt was there, he's a pretty good Korean Terran. I think Bomber was there too. Puma's pretty good as well. Are the only people you consider to be "Class A MMA, MVP, Nestea, and Losira?
If thats the case, then take another look at Polt, he's pretty damn good- he 4-0'd MMA in the Super Tournament earlier this year.
Before you casually dismiss every tournament that doesn't have one of your 4 top players in it look at the player pool before you decide that only the low class Koreans showed up.
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On October 17 2011 11:52 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 11:33 Empirimancer wrote:
Can't wait to see InControl's depressed face next SotG.
Why would he be depressed? I think he's still in the pools for Providence easily enough. MLG just needs to invite one Korean already qualified. (he's 17th now, isn't he?)
top 16 pools, incontrol and rain are tied for 16th, but the mlg rules state tiebreaker can be decided by a few different ways, one of them being who placed better in the most recent event, which would be rain.
still waiting for official mlg ruling tho
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On October 17 2011 11:56 taLbuk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 11:52 Grumbels wrote:On October 17 2011 11:33 Empirimancer wrote:
Can't wait to see InControl's depressed face next SotG.
Why would he be depressed? I think he's still in the pools for Providence easily enough. MLG just needs to invite one Korean already qualified. (he's 17th now, isn't he?) top 16 pools, incontrol and rain are tied for 16th, but the mlg rules state tiebreaker can be decided by a few different ways, one of them being who placed better in the most recent event, which would be rain. still waiting for official mlg ruling tho
Slasher Rod Breslau
Top 16 for #SC2 #MLG Providence: Naniwa HuK Idra MMA KiwiKaki Slush Ret Bomber Sjow Select DRG MC Haypro Boxer Rain Puma (via @MLGRyan)
So Rain must have won the tiebreaker (whatever it was).
Also, I don't believe the GSL-MLG exchange program will invite any koreans this time. And if they are invited, they 100% aren't seeded invites. The 16 seeds are set as the above 16 players. The only way incontrol (or anyone else) can sneak into that is if some of the players seeded don't show up. That seems ridiculously unlikely though considering the 100k prize pool.
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did they do a stog on Friday? I cant find it on mlg.tv or was it cancelled
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On October 17 2011 11:56 -Winter- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 11:48 AxelTVx wrote:On October 17 2011 10:14 Renent wrote:
Curious how the crew writes this off as protoss still being UP....
I dont see why not. Yes this MLG had the most competition but the competition was at a B+ level skill from the koreans. We didnt see MVP MMA Nestea Losira or other amazing terrans that would be gategorized as A level. Not to take anything away from Huk's win but without Any of the A level players being at this MLG you cant change anything on balance atm. As much as foreigners dont want to admit it, korea is still further ahead. But now it's at a point where there are 3 levels of koreans. The bad, the good, and the amazing. At the level that our foreigners are at now, the TOP foreigners only qualify to be in the good section. As much as I want to say Huk is in the amazing section, he's not. Hopefully he will be one day and win a GSL. Polt was there, he's a pretty good Korean Terran. I think Bomber was there too. Puma's pretty good as well. Are the only people you consider to be "Class A MMA, MVP, Nestea, and Losira? If thats the case, then take another look at Polt, he's pretty damn good- he 4-0'd MMA in the Super Tournament earlier this year. Before you casually dismiss every tournament that doesn't have one of your 4 top players in it look at the player pool before you decide that only the low class Koreans showed up.
I did look at them. However they're just not on the same level they are now as MVP or Nestea.
Polt: Yes he was good. But he's been falling and not doing as well as he was in the past. He's been inconsistant in many tournaments. You say he crushed MMA in the super tournament? That was a long time ago. Look at MC a few months back he was considered the best. People fall.
Bomber: Yes he was good here. His macro was impecable but his decision making wasnt as high as it should have been. He threw away units way too much and if he improved his mindset he would have beaten IdrA. Moreover, he's also known for being inconsistant. To be a top player you HAVE to be consistant. Look at MC he was amazing but dropped down low.
Puma: Yes he was amazing during the NASL finals when MC was doing great. But look at his play recently. Against protoss he's been slacking and winning with mostly 1/1/1. You cant compare him to MVP. In each match up MVP has him beat. In addition, look at the IEM v IdrA. They were amazing games but he made so many mistakes it wasnt what a top class player should be doing. He left an infestor kill so many scvs. MVP nor MMA would have let that happen.
MC: He's regaining his momentum and I hope that he dkes well but his decision making was terrible in many games. Since his fall, he's been doing terribly in manh tournaments. Now look back and read what I sais before you say Im saying MC's no skilled. He's coming back. But it doesn't mean he's the best.
Tournaments: When did I say I casually dismissed them? They're amazing achievements. I watched all. However they just didnt have the high level of skill there is in the GSL.
Really I'm not saying foreigners suck, but I think people are over hyping the idea that the foreigners are equal to koreans. Just look at the korean players in attendance at these events and compare them to to the players in korea who are regarded as "the best"
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On October 17 2011 12:16 AxelTVx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 11:56 -Winter- wrote:On October 17 2011 11:48 AxelTVx wrote:On October 17 2011 10:14 Renent wrote:
Curious how the crew writes this off as protoss still being UP....
I dont see why not. Yes this MLG had the most competition but the competition was at a B+ level skill from the koreans. We didnt see MVP MMA Nestea Losira or other amazing terrans that would be gategorized as A level. Not to take anything away from Huk's win but without Any of the A level players being at this MLG you cant change anything on balance atm. As much as foreigners dont want to admit it, korea is still further ahead. But now it's at a point where there are 3 levels of koreans. The bad, the good, and the amazing. At the level that our foreigners are at now, the TOP foreigners only qualify to be in the good section. As much as I want to say Huk is in the amazing section, he's not. Hopefully he will be one day and win a GSL. Polt was there, he's a pretty good Korean Terran. I think Bomber was there too. Puma's pretty good as well. Are the only people you consider to be "Class A MMA, MVP, Nestea, and Losira? If thats the case, then take another look at Polt, he's pretty damn good- he 4-0'd MMA in the Super Tournament earlier this year. Before you casually dismiss every tournament that doesn't have one of your 4 top players in it look at the player pool before you decide that only the low class Koreans showed up. I did look at them. However they're just not on the same level they are now as MVP or Nestea. Polt: Yes he was good. But he's been falling and not doing as well as he was in the past. He's been inconsistant in many tournaments. You say he crushed MMA in the super tournament? That was a long time ago. Look at MC a few months back he was considered the best. People fall. Bomber: Yes he was good here. His macro was impecable but his decision making wasnt as high as it should have been. He threw away units way too much and if he improved his mindset he would have beaten IdrA. Moreover, he's also known for being inconsistant. To be a top player you HAVE to be consistant. Look at MC he was amazing but dropped down low. Puma: Yes he was amazing during the NASL finals when MC was doing great. But look at his play recently. Against protoss he's been slacking and winning with mostly 1/1/1. You cant compare him to MVP. In each match up MVP has him beat. In addition, look at the IEM v IdrA. They were amazing games but he made so many mistakes it wasnt what a top class player should be doing. He left an infestor kill so many scvs. MVP nor MMA would have let that happen. MC: He's regaining his momentum and I hope that he dkes well but his decision making was terrible in many games. Since his fall, he's been doing terribly in manh tournaments. Now look back and read what I sais before you say Im saying MC's no skilled. He's coming back. But it doesn't mean he's the best. Tournaments: When did I say I casually dismissed them? They're amazing achievements. I watched all. However they just didnt have the high level of skill there is in the GSL. Really I'm not saying foreigners suck, but I think people are over hyping the idea that the foreigners are equal to koreans. Just look at the korean players in attendance at these events and compare them to to the players in korea who are regarded as "the best"
*long sigh*
The best Koreans? There's like...four of them. You're saying that every event they aren't at is B level?
No one is saying foreigners are the equal of Koreans. But certainly it is proved that they are closing the gap, they can take series and now tournaments off of them. The dull prospect of Koreans flying around the world winning everything is now a thing of the past - our scene can compete.
We don't have an MVP and a Nestea but well...the Koreans only have two of them. How do I put this...the Korean scene is a lot bigger than those two players. The are exceptional - literally, they are exceptions, not the standard Korean. Therefore foreigners don't have to beat them to be considered competitive with Koreans.
The fact that you're using this idea to back up that protoss is still UP is just weird. Bomber, TheSTC, MarineKing, Puma; all top Korean terrans with great TvP. All lost to protoss players this MLG. oGsTOP lost 3-0 at IEM to some random NA protoss no one has heard of before (Gatored, btw, really impressive PvT).
Are you literally saying that before we collectively change our minds on PvT balance, a protoss has to beat MVP in a Bo7 or something? Because that would be ridiculous. 7
Protosses are beating great terrans. They don't have to be beating the best terran for the match up to be stabilising.
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On October 17 2011 12:16 AxelTVx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 11:56 -Winter- wrote:On October 17 2011 11:48 AxelTVx wrote:On October 17 2011 10:14 Renent wrote:
Curious how the crew writes this off as protoss still being UP....
I dont see why not. Yes this MLG had the most competition but the competition was at a B+ level skill from the koreans. We didnt see MVP MMA Nestea Losira or other amazing terrans that would be gategorized as A level. Not to take anything away from Huk's win but without Any of the A level players being at this MLG you cant change anything on balance atm. As much as foreigners dont want to admit it, korea is still further ahead. But now it's at a point where there are 3 levels of koreans. The bad, the good, and the amazing. At the level that our foreigners are at now, the TOP foreigners only qualify to be in the good section. As much as I want to say Huk is in the amazing section, he's not. Hopefully he will be one day and win a GSL. Polt was there, he's a pretty good Korean Terran. I think Bomber was there too. Puma's pretty good as well. Are the only people you consider to be "Class A MMA, MVP, Nestea, and Losira? If thats the case, then take another look at Polt, he's pretty damn good- he 4-0'd MMA in the Super Tournament earlier this year. Before you casually dismiss every tournament that doesn't have one of your 4 top players in it look at the player pool before you decide that only the low class Koreans showed up. I did look at them. However they're just not on the same level they are now as MVP or Nestea. Polt: Yes he was good. But he's been falling and not doing as well as he was in the past. He's been inconsistant in many tournaments. You say he crushed MMA in the super tournament? That was a long time ago. Look at MC a few months back he was considered the best. People fall. Bomber: Yes he was good here. His macro was impecable but his decision making wasnt as high as it should have been. He threw away units way too much and if he improved his mindset he would have beaten IdrA. Moreover, he's also known for being inconsistant. To be a top player you HAVE to be consistant. Look at MC he was amazing but dropped down low. Puma: Yes he was amazing during the NASL finals when MC was doing great. But look at his play recently. Against protoss he's been slacking and winning with mostly 1/1/1. You cant compare him to MVP. In each match up MVP has him beat. In addition, look at the IEM v IdrA. They were amazing games but he made so many mistakes it wasnt what a top class player should be doing. He left an infestor kill so many scvs. MVP nor MMA would have let that happen. MC: He's regaining his momentum and I hope that he dkes well but his decision making was terrible in many games. Since his fall, he's been doing terribly in manh tournaments. Now look back and read what I sais before you say Im saying MC's no skilled. He's coming back. But it doesn't mean he's the best. Tournaments: When did I say I casually dismissed them? They're amazing achievements. I watched all. However they just didnt have the high level of skill there is in the GSL. Really I'm not saying foreigners suck, but I think people are over hyping the idea that the foreigners are equal to koreans. Just look at the korean players in attendance at these events and compare them to to the players in korea who are regarded as "the best"
This post is really weird, how can you justify calling the competition B+ level just because two or three of the best players in the world weren't there? What kind of a person doesn't take bomber, puma, mc, july, polt, and mkp as top level competition? Not to mention that the top two foreigners have proven themselves as peers of the best koreans on multiple occasions.
If you can take a paragraph and dismiss the play of all of these people, I'll try to do it for mvp, mma, and nestea
MVP: recently slumped hard enough to get put down to code A, a tournament he lost in a 4-2 series to bomber, a player you don't consider even on the same level. He also recently lost to QXC in GSTL, allowing an all-kill of his team. Any player who should be considered top level should be consistent enough to not drop such important games.
MMA: very recently got swept in the biggest series of his entire life by polt. Even more recently he got 3-0'd in the arena of legends tournament by MKP, a player you who you don't even consider enough of a rival to write a dismissive paragraph on. On top of this, his tvp is sub-50% in his career. Anyone who could be considered the very top tier of this game should not have a "weak" matchup.
Nestea: He hasn't won a game for his team in GSTL since February. He drops games in a consistent manner to players with no results to speak of in zvt. This is an especially glaring flaw considering the amount of terrans in the gsl, and may speak to either Nestea's laziness in preparation or his overconfidence in a machup that has proven to be his weak point.
I don't actually believe any of these things, each of these players are amazing competitors and should be counted among the world's best. Just like the laundry list of top-tier players you've dismissed.
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On October 17 2011 11:48 AxelTVx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 10:14 Renent wrote:
Curious how the crew writes this off as protoss still being UP....
I dont see why not. Yes this MLG had the most competition but the competition was at a B+ level skill from the koreans. We didnt see MVP MMA Nestea Losira or other amazing terrans that would be gategorized as A level. Not to take anything away from Huk's win but without Any of the A level players being at this MLG you cant change anything on balance atm. As much as foreigners dont want to admit it, korea is still further ahead. But now it's at a point where there are 3 levels of koreans. The bad, the good, and the amazing. At the level that our foreigners are at now, the TOP foreigners only qualify to be in the good section. As much as I want to say Huk is in the amazing section, he's not. Hopefully he will be one day and win a GSL.
I'd put Polt, Bomber and MKP ahead or even with Losira and MMA
MVP and Nestea are on a level of their own
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On October 17 2011 11:48 AxelTVx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 10:14 Renent wrote:
Curious how the crew writes this off as protoss still being UP....
I dont see why not. Yes this MLG had the most competition but the competition was at a B+ level skill from the koreans. We didnt see MVP MMA Nestea Losira or other amazing terrans that would be gategorized as A level. Not to take anything away from Huk's win but without Any of the A level players being at this MLG you cant change anything on balance atm. As much as foreigners dont want to admit it, korea is still further ahead. But now it's at a point where there are 3 levels of koreans. The bad, the good, and the amazing. At the level that our foreigners are at now, the TOP foreigners only qualify to be in the good section. As much as I want to say Huk is in the amazing section, he's not. Hopefully he will be one day and win a GSL.
Bomber is considered one of the best Korean Terrans -- albeit inconsistent sometimes -- besides MVP.
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On October 17 2011 12:16 AxelTVx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 11:56 -Winter- wrote:On October 17 2011 11:48 AxelTVx wrote:On October 17 2011 10:14 Renent wrote:
Curious how the crew writes this off as protoss still being UP....
I dont see why not. Yes this MLG had the most competition but the competition was at a B+ level skill from the koreans. We didnt see MVP MMA Nestea Losira or other amazing terrans that would be gategorized as A level. Not to take anything away from Huk's win but without Any of the A level players being at this MLG you cant change anything on balance atm. As much as foreigners dont want to admit it, korea is still further ahead. But now it's at a point where there are 3 levels of koreans. The bad, the good, and the amazing. At the level that our foreigners are at now, the TOP foreigners only qualify to be in the good section. As much as I want to say Huk is in the amazing section, he's not. Hopefully he will be one day and win a GSL. Polt was there, he's a pretty good Korean Terran. I think Bomber was there too. Puma's pretty good as well. Are the only people you consider to be "Class A MMA, MVP, Nestea, and Losira? If thats the case, then take another look at Polt, he's pretty damn good- he 4-0'd MMA in the Super Tournament earlier this year. Before you casually dismiss every tournament that doesn't have one of your 4 top players in it look at the player pool before you decide that only the low class Koreans showed up. I did look at them. However they're just not on the same level they are now as MVP or Nestea. Polt: Yes he was good. But he's been falling and not doing as well as he was in the past. He's been inconsistant in many tournaments. You say he crushed MMA in the super tournament? That was a long time ago. Look at MC a few months back he was considered the best. People fall. Bomber: Yes he was good here. His macro was impecable but his decision making wasnt as high as it should have been. He threw away units way too much and if he improved his mindset he would have beaten IdrA. Moreover, he's also known for being inconsistant. To be a top player you HAVE to be consistant. Look at MC he was amazing but dropped down low. Puma: Yes he was amazing during the NASL finals when MC was doing great. But look at his play recently. Against protoss he's been slacking and winning with mostly 1/1/1. You cant compare him to MVP. In each match up MVP has him beat. In addition, look at the IEM v IdrA. They were amazing games but he made so many mistakes it wasnt what a top class player should be doing. He left an infestor kill so many scvs. MVP nor MMA would have let that happen. MC: He's regaining his momentum and I hope that he dkes well but his decision making was terrible in many games. Since his fall, he's been doing terribly in manh tournaments. Now look back and read what I sais before you say Im saying MC's no skilled. He's coming back. But it doesn't mean he's the best. Tournaments: When did I say I casually dismissed them? They're amazing achievements. I watched all. However they just didnt have the high level of skill there is in the GSL. Really I'm not saying foreigners suck, but I think people are over hyping the idea that the foreigners are equal to koreans. Just look at the korean players in attendance at these events and compare them to to the players in korea who are regarded as "the best"
I know what your saying, but this was the second hardest tournament behind GSL. I wouldn't really classify HuK as a foreigner anymore. I also don't want to get in that lame ass debate as well. Anyway I still believe Koreans are still quite ahead of foreigners. In all the interviews of Huk, idra, etc, they say the koreans are still much better than foreigners and that the last 2 events - IEM, IPL were flukes/lucky. People who think foreigners = koreans are dellusional
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I know what your saying, but this was the second hardest tournament behind GSL. I wouldn't really classify HuK as a foreigner anymore. I also don't want to get in that lame ass debate as well. Anyway I still believe Koreans are still quite ahead of foreigners. In all the interviews of Huk, idra, etc, they say the koreans are still much better than foreigners and that the last 2 events - IEM, IPL were flukes/lucky. People who think foreigners = koreans are dellusional
We don't think foreigners = koreans, that's why it was awesome to see 2 non-koreans in the top 4 and Huk take the whole thing!
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On October 17 2011 11:49 P0ckets wrote:
Why couldn't there been a SToG tonight or last night? I mean all matches like ended last night around 11:00PM and tonight around 9:00PM. That would of gave them plenty of time to put together at least an hour show.
Yea! They should be catering to our needs. What else do they have to do this weekend anyway?
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Eating? Nonsense! Sleeping? Unnecessary!
We demand a SotG and that you sacrifice all of your human rights to fulfill what we demand!
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On October 17 2011 11:49 P0ckets wrote:
Why couldn't there been a SToG tonight or last night? I mean all matches like ended last night around 11:00PM and tonight around 9:00PM. That would of gave them plenty of time to put together at least an hour show.
MLG has to purchase a certain amount of time for the satellite trucks and on Sunday, they had to pack everything up and get going. Sometimes you just run out of time.
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IPL was able to do 2 Live on Threes djwheats show, MLG did 0 Sotg, their own show.
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It's okay JP take your time! Time constraints and other problems got in the way of having an SotG at MLG, but that's totally fine! Eagerly awaiting the next one 
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On October 17 2011 16:31 Shirin wrote:
IPL was able to do 2 Live on Threes djwheats show, MLG did 0 Sotg, their own show.
IPL didn't have satellite trucks to broadcast their tournament (hence the huge delay when the internet went out).
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On October 17 2011 16:31 Shirin wrote:
IPL was able to do 2 Live on Threes djwheats show, MLG did 0 Sotg, their own show.
And..? Casters are tired after big days of casting. I'm 100% sure Artosis and Day9 were completely exhausted and ready to go to sleep. Tyler would of been disappointed with his results and so would Incontrol. I don't blame them for not wanting to do a sc2 talk-show when they're in that mental state.
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On October 17 2011 14:11 Pyskee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 11:48 AxelTVx wrote:On October 17 2011 10:14 Renent wrote:
Curious how the crew writes this off as protoss still being UP....
I dont see why not. Yes this MLG had the most competition but the competition was at a B+ level skill from the koreans. We didnt see MVP MMA Nestea Losira or other amazing terrans that would be gategorized as A level. Not to take anything away from Huk's win but without Any of the A level players being at this MLG you cant change anything on balance atm. As much as foreigners dont want to admit it, korea is still further ahead. But now it's at a point where there are 3 levels of koreans. The bad, the good, and the amazing. At the level that our foreigners are at now, the TOP foreigners only qualify to be in the good section. As much as I want to say Huk is in the amazing section, he's not. Hopefully he will be one day and win a GSL. Bomber is considered one of the best Korean Terrans -- albeit inconsistent sometimes -- besides MVP.
Generally bombers winrate is inversely proportional to the number of manner mules he drops =).
That aside though, there were definitely a lot of very, very strong koreans in the brackets. I don't think you should ever count boxer out as well. Taking out Stephano, and Sase, and bringing idra to the brink after starting down 0-2 isn't easy. theSTC isn't a low class terran either, 2-1 against bomber. In fact I would argue that this tournament was insanely stacked in terms of talent, because there was a ton of world class talent at this event.
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Looking at who attended, I guess you could argue that MvP, NesTea ... possibly MMA ... are clearly better based on results. No other in the world though.
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EPT
