If you look at Raleigh the quality of the foreigners there was clearly worse than at.. all these other events... It was basically Teamliquid + Naniwa, Sjow and Huk, the rest of europe was missing and Incontrol/Machine/Drewbie/Tyler... are hardly on the same level. i'm also not that sure how good Select and Kiwikaki really are atm. If you look at Tylers run in the open bracket you see what i mean with "average player quality"... It was or at least looked worse than most weekly online cups in europe...
Or to make it blunt and give some "evidence", if you can call it that: Huk did drop out early at Assembly and IEM to non Koreans, Nada did drop out early at Assembly and IEM to non koreans.
NONE of the foreigners that where at MLG Raleigh has made a big splash recently (probably for various reasons, at least in Naniwas case)... At least Raleigh just wasn't a tournament of the highest quality if you take into account the whole player field.
Edit: To be fair, there were MLG's with better playerfields and if or soem reason forgot to mention Demuslim and Idra .
I respect your oppinion as much as anyone else, i just wonder what the reason is for people feeling like MLG is the best tournament there is? IF not for the constant hype/drama it gets for some reason...
On September 02 2011 19:56 ArturosII wrote: I had hoped it wouldn't happen but it has. People bitching about them talking about MLG despite the fact that it was 2 days after MLG when they had recorded it. They also spent a lot of time talking about the upcoming patch notes. JP clearly had a longer list of things to talk about but they were all exhausted and just ran out of time.
Yeah sure, MLG was just a few days ago. Yet the focus on MLG and topics surrounding MLG has gotten way, way more airtime now that JP is working for Major League Gaming. They talked more about the MLG groups a couple of weeks ago than the GSL and EU Blizzard invitational. Even IEM was only brushed upon while there's talk about the MLG pools almost every single episode.
I don't mind that much but i'd rather hear more about different tournaments instead of the MLG focus, especially when it's only about pools and not the actual tournament.
They are americans who are all highly involved with MLG, theyre obviously gonna discuss it more than things not as many of them are that involved in.
Or it's that JP got hired by MLG and they sponsor the show now. It's good they are getting paid to do it but it's kinda sad when one MLG pool gets more mention than the whole of Assembly or IEM.
If you guys didn't know, JP worked for MLG before SC2 was picked up by MLG(or concurrently at the very least). I think that through the work he did with the community and the casting he got in to, he became a more prominent member of the MLG staff, but I recall him being involved before SC2. JP was able to get himself into a position to be part of their SC2 growth, unlike vhell or vansilli. I don't actually know what vansilli is doing anymore but he stops by #bg9 from time to time.
My point being, SotG was always run by someone who worked for MLG, he just might not have been a full time employee back then.
On September 02 2011 19:56 ArturosII wrote: I had hoped it wouldn't happen but it has. People bitching about them talking about MLG despite the fact that it was 2 days after MLG when they had recorded it. They also spent a lot of time talking about the upcoming patch notes. JP clearly had a longer list of things to talk about but they were all exhausted and just ran out of time.
Yeah sure, MLG was just a few days ago. Yet the focus on MLG and topics surrounding MLG has gotten way, way more airtime now that JP is working for Major League Gaming. They talked more about the MLG groups a couple of weeks ago than the GSL and EU Blizzard invitational. Even IEM was only brushed upon while there's talk about the MLG pools almost every single episode.
I don't mind that much but i'd rather hear more about different tournaments instead of the MLG focus, especially when it's only about pools and not the actual tournament.
They are americans who are all highly involved with MLG, theyre obviously gonna discuss it more than things not as many of them are that involved in.
Or it's that JP got hired by MLG and they sponsor the show now. It's good they are getting paid to do it but it's kinda sad when one MLG pool gets more mention than the whole of Assembly or IEM.
If you guys didn't know, JP worked for MLG before SC2 was picked up by MLG(or concurrently at the very least). I think that through the work he did with the community and the casting he got in to, he became a more prominent member of the MLG staff, but I recall him being involved before SC2. JP was able to get himself into a position to be part of their SC2 growth, unlike vhell or vansilli. I don't actually know what vansilli is doing anymore but he stops by #bg9 from time to time.
My point being, SotG was always run by someone who worked for MLG, he just might not have been a full time employee back then.
JP used to do an extremely similar podcast with WoW called ArenaCast and was at least involved in a lot of behind the scenes stuff when WoW was in MLG about 3-4 years ago. JP worked for MLG before the SC2 beta even existed.
On September 01 2011 07:13 MrCon wrote: In this episode, Artosis says he's fed up with marine marauder in TvT oO We've seen 2 months of mech only and like one week with some games with bio (and only in GSL in 2 series, code A finals and Polt vs Keen, MLG was full of mech). And Artosis didn't even cast these series. He really seems disconnected now, which is sad
As I recall he said it'll be good if Terrans make less Marines and Marauders, but he didnt say in TvT specifically. He probably meant TvP. I agree with him though, I find M&M pretty boring to watch in any match-up.
Was quite funny when Artosis said the prospect of more mech was a good thing and the others just seemed completely disinterested, them not being former BW Terrans.
Day9's "wow, that was complicated" at one of Jeffs trollings was the funniest line this episode though.
I second the calls for DeMuslim to be on, or Puma if his English is good enough. Would be good to have some strong Terran perspective on the show that wont just degenerate into a DT vs Banshee trollfest.
DeMuslim needs to be on the show please! Also, yeah that Artosis comment was odd. It's ONLY in TvP where MMM is used. vZ is bio mech predominantly, and vT has been almost pure mech for months now. Very strange.
On September 02 2011 19:56 ArturosII wrote: I had hoped it wouldn't happen but it has. People bitching about them talking about MLG despite the fact that it was 2 days after MLG when they had recorded it. They also spent a lot of time talking about the upcoming patch notes. JP clearly had a longer list of things to talk about but they were all exhausted and just ran out of time.
Yeah sure, MLG was just a few days ago. Yet the focus on MLG and topics surrounding MLG has gotten way, way more airtime now that JP is working for Major League Gaming. They talked more about the MLG groups a couple of weeks ago than the GSL and EU Blizzard invitational. Even IEM was only brushed upon while there's talk about the MLG pools almost every single episode.
I don't mind that much but i'd rather hear more about different tournaments instead of the MLG focus, especially when it's only about pools and not the actual tournament.
They are americans who are all highly involved with MLG, theyre obviously gonna discuss it more than things not as many of them are that involved in.
Or it's that JP got hired by MLG and they sponsor the show now. It's good they are getting paid to do it but it's kinda sad when one MLG pool gets more mention than the whole of Assembly or IEM.
If you guys didn't know, JP worked for MLG before SC2 was picked up by MLG(or concurrently at the very least). I think that through the work he did with the community and the casting he got in to, he became a more prominent member of the MLG staff, but I recall him being involved before SC2. JP was able to get himself into a position to be part of their SC2 growth, unlike vhell or vansilli. I don't actually know what vansilli is doing anymore but he stops by #bg9 from time to time.
My point being, SotG was always run by someone who worked for MLG, he just might not have been a full time employee back then.
JP used to do an extremely similar podcast with WoW called ArenaCast and was at least involved in a lot of behind the scenes stuff when WoW was in MLG about 3-4 years ago. JP worked for MLG before the SC2 beta even existed.
Yeah that was kind of my point, that the show isn't MLG biased now because of JP working for MLG--he's always worked for MLG. The show has always had a bigger focus on MLG, if you recall they did an entire episode dedicated to asking sundance(or lee?) questions and giving suggestions. It turned into a 3hr discussion of extended series. It was the week after MLG and all of them were in attendance. Would you rather they spent 2hrs talking about a tournament, about which none of them have unique insights or point of views?
On September 02 2011 22:36 Velr wrote: What exactly makes MLG better than Assembly, Dreamhack or IEM?
Oh, except for the hype and the on average worse play aside from the participating koreans.
+the many important but not showed games. +the pure rapes in poolplay because of the ridiculous pointsystem (which will hopefully get fixed). +the low pricepool.
The biggest thing i really dislike about the european tournaments (and its seriously huge to me) is how disorganized the casting usually is. Casting is a really important part of the experience for me and when you have 10 different observers in one game, often lagging them up, with 90% of the casters being pretty terrible, its REALLY difficult to find entertaining matches with any sort of hype. Sure I'll see matches at these events that feature some of my favorite players, but the events always feel less epic because the presentation is really poor in comparison to MLG. The level of competition is often higher at the EU events than at the MLGs, but the production value really falls short making them harder to enjoy. Homestory cup was still one of my favorite tournaments to date in SC2, but I have trouble even remembering who wins most of the EU events because the matches are so brutally disorganized and the casting is a notch below. More than that, the EU casters seem to be way more knowledgable about the game (on average, not counting Day9), but it doesn't make up for it... they're just worse casters IMO.
MLG isn't perfect, but those EU events are even further from perfect
On September 02 2011 22:56 Velr wrote: If you look at Raleigh the quality of the foreigners there was clearly worse than at.. all these other events... It was basically Teamliquid + Naniwa, Sjow and Huk, the rest of europe was missing and Incontrol/Machine/Drewbie/Tyler... are hardly on the same level. i'm also not that sure how good Select and Kiwikaki really are atm. If you look at Tylers run in the open bracket you see what i mean with "average player quality"... It was or at least looked worse than most weekly online cups in europe...
Or to make it blunt and give some "evidence", if you can call it that: Huk did drop out early at Assembly and IEM to non Koreans, Nada did drop out early at Assembly and IEM to non koreans.
NONE of the foreigners that where at MLG Raleigh has made a big splash recently (probably for various reasons, at least in Naniwas case)... At least Raleigh just wasn't a tournament of the highest quality if you take into account the whole player field.
Edit: To be fair, there were MLG's with better playerfields and if or soem reason forgot to mention Demuslim and Idra .
I respect your oppinion as much as anyone else, i just wonder what the reason is for people feeling like MLG is the best tournament there is? IF not for the constant hype/drama it gets for some reason...
The "hype/drama" is perhaps one of the most important aspects of a tournament. That alone lends it a lot of credibility as a tournament, it makes it a lot more exciting for everyone to watch because it is organized and there are storylines to follow.
Most smaller European tournaments are a lot less organized and a lot harder to follow due to f.ex. there not being as prolific casters.
Most americans don't watch GSL, and therefore don't even know what good players actually look like in-game. That's why MLG gets all of the attention it gets, it's basically the showcase for quality talent. Too bad they fly the quality talent in from Korea, give them the prizes, and fly them home.
I just wish more Americans would watch gomtv. Then they would know what true skill is, and there would be slightly less drama (because no one would ACTUALLY care about idra vs socke, or some other baddie noname vs some other baddie noname)
Oh cool, more europeans shitting on MLG, and claiming their tournaments are the best and complaining that an american podcast is to americentric and doesnt cover europe enough.
On September 04 2011 10:22 OPL3SA2 wrote: Most americans don't watch GSL, and therefore don't even know what good players actually look like in-game. That's why MLG gets all of the attention it gets, it's basically the showcase for quality talent. Too bad they fly the quality talent in from Korea, give them the prizes, and fly them home.
I just wish more Americans would watch gomtv. Then they would know what true skill is, and there would be slightly less drama (because no one would ACTUALLY care about idra vs socke, or some other baddie noname vs some other baddie noname)
I watch more GSL than anything else and I'd love to watch Idra vs Socke at the next MLG...
On September 04 2011 10:22 OPL3SA2 wrote: Most americans don't watch GSL, and therefore don't even know what good players actually look like in-game. That's why MLG gets all of the attention it gets, it's basically the showcase for quality talent. Too bad they fly the quality talent in from Korea, give them the prizes, and fly them home.
I just wish more Americans would watch gomtv. Then they would know what true skill is, and there would be slightly less drama (because no one would ACTUALLY care about idra vs socke, or some other baddie noname vs some other baddie noname)
I watch GSL as often as I can, which amounts to about 2 to 3 times a week. I can see that the mechanics of Koreans are, in general, extremely good.
I'd still rather watch IdrA vs socke. Maybe this is because I don't have to stay up until 3 or 4 AM to do so, maybe it's because I like a little drama, or maybe it's because I can appreciate something without being a pompous jerk.
Im not saying SOTG has an obligation to do anything, but I would love a more Korean-centered view on everything.
Of course 2 weeks before and after MLG it's fine to focus on it more than any other event, but the GSL really is the pinnacle of SC2 and it is where people who perhaps are new and listening to SOTG as an intro to the scene (aswell as your average fans who don't watch that many streams or games outside big events) should be pointed, and the games referenced, when talking about the pro-scene.
Drama, debate and games in the foreigner scene are fine, but really the GSL is where you get quality SC2. As the premier sc2 show, with the biggest audience, I would love to see SOTG (or MLG, if you see it as an extension of the brand) bigging it up outside their own event schedule.
For this reason, I am glad Artosis is now a permanant addition. He is not scared of letting people know that Korea is where the big dogs fight it out!
I really don't understand how anyone can complain about the MLG coverage of SotG. State of the Game is always covering the most current event and the most recent game changes,.with a spice of humor and a slice of drama. That's what makes it the most enjoyable podcast of them all.
EPT
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