EPTOfficial State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 139
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dartoo
India2889 Posts
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Bear4188
United States1797 Posts
On October 26 2010 17:26 Defacer wrote: Hey, just finished listening to the cast. Thanks for answering my question guys. It's great that you and Nony are on teams that you're proud of and feel comfortable with. I have a follow-up question: should there be an age limit for professional players, or alternate leagues for REALLY young players? I know the sport still has to mature, but the idea of a 15 year old kid dropping out of school to play professional Starcraft 10+ hours a day just doesn't seem good for the sport's reputation in the long-term. What's to say that is even a problem related to e-sports? I don't know of any instances of drop outs occurring anywhere else but Korea, sure Starcraft isn't as big elsewhere as it is in Korea but there are many other competitive games (and traditional sports that are hugely more lucrative) in the west where you don't see this happening. Case in point, I'm fairly sure it would be outright illegal for a 15 year old to work the hours typical of a Korean/KESPA team in the US. I think we're really just seeing a major difference between Korean and western cultures. I think that may have been an incoherent rant, as its' 2 AM. On October 26 2010 17:39 dartoo wrote: A big new sponsor...and the EG guys are going to be on the tv commercials,endorsing stuff? Coke/Pepsi? :D Please tell me we get to see EG.Machine with the KISS midgets on Dr. Pepper commercials. | ||
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Kishkumen
United States650 Posts
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
 ouble Post* | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
I'm not disagreeing with you at all. It's a problem that all professional sports have to deal with. The more lucrative Starcraft becomes as a sport, the easier it will be to exploit potential players. That's why there's Triple A hockey leagues, or age restrictions in the NBA draft. For every Kobe Bryant that makes it big in the NBA, there's tens and thousands of talented kids that are scouted, courted and left rotting on the vine. What I'm suggesting is that if the Korean pro-leagues had some standards or systems in place, for developing young players -- let's pretend SC players under 17 played in a minor league like NHL prospects -- than LoveRipWerra probably would not be in the situation he's in now. Hell, he would have never been at his coach's house in the first place. Guys like Nony and InControl are adults, and can take care of themselves. A fifteen year old nerd? | ||
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syrupychinadian
112 Posts
 My next question's gonna be an essay now to force you to answer it properly! and IMO, SC is like a chess game where you play a street fighter 2/4 match every time you try to take a piece. | ||
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dacthehork
United States2000 Posts
On October 26 2010 18:13 Defacer wrote: I'm not disagreeing with you at all. It's a problem that all professional sports have to deal with. The more lucrative Starcraft becomes as a sport, the easier it will be to exploit potential players. That's why there's Triple A hockey leagues, or age restrictions in the NBA draft. For every Kobe Bryant that makes it big in the NBA, there's tens and thousands of talented kids that are scouted, courted and left rotting on the vine. What I'm suggesting is that if the Korean pro-leagues had some standards or systems in place, for developing young players -- let's pretend SC players under 17 played in a minor league like NHL prospects -- than LoveRipWerra probably would not be in the situation he's in now. Hell, he would have never been at his coach's house in the first place. Guys like Nony and InControl are adults, and can take care of themselves. A fifteen year old nerd? I understand how complete noobs to ESPORTS that are talking out of their asses might think a "union" is awesome. Everyone who knows their shit knows that KESPA basically shits all over their players and fakes being some type of good union. They basically just exist to keep 100% control over SC:BW in korea and disallow any type of independent players or competing broadcasters. Unions and shit like this is a retarded idea. Players have complete freedom and no tournament organizer requires any contract/license right now to play in their tournament. Also you can enter the tournaments on a team or off a team. The players really can choose the tournaments they want to play in and the team they want to join. Also I doubt any SC2 players will ever want to start any organization or license/team stuff with how ridiculous KESPA monopoly became. Really Korea in general treats under 18 year old "entertainers" like shit, from kpop to esports they basically own them with one sided contracts. If a KESPA like entity takes over SC2 in korea it would be really bad. The less professional it is the better it is for players imo. Korean companies/teams basically have no care for any well being of the players (Listen to the podcast where they even mention this). Independent teams like TL, oGs, EG etc are way better to their players than any kespa team. I would say that kespa and korean entertainment in general is about as close to slavery as you can get in any modern country. The players are so under control by the contracts and how the systems work. The incident with Werra had nothing to do with unions, I would actually say in a kespa like environment he would have just had more power and more access. | ||
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blop12311
Australia68 Posts
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Shakes
Australia557 Posts
On October 26 2010 18:13 Defacer wrote: It's a problem that all professional sports have to deal with. The more lucrative Starcraft becomes as a sport, the easier it will be to exploit potential players. That's why there's Triple A hockey leagues, or age restrictions in the NBA draft. For every Kobe Bryant that makes it big in the NBA, there's tens and thousands of talented kids that are scouted, courted and left rotting on the vine. There are age restrictions on the NBA draft because it gives the NBA a better quality product if they get players who have played a year of college basketball and hence are higher skilled when they join the league. That they can sell it as a measure of "caring for the players welfare" and look good is just a side benefit. | ||
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NoXious90
United Kingdom160 Posts
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On October 26 2010 18:44 dacthehork wrote: I understand how complete noobs to ESPORTS that are talking out of their asses might think a "union" is awesome. Everyone who knows their shit knows that KESPA basically shits all over their players and fakes being some type of good union. They basically just exist to keep 100% control over SC:BW in korea and disallow any type of independent players or competing broadcasters. Unions and shit like this is a retarded idea. Players have complete freedom and no tournament organizer requires any contract/license right now to play in their tournament. Also you can enter the tournaments on a team or off a team. The players really can choose the tournaments they want to play in and the team they want to join. Also I doubt any SC2 players will ever want to start any organization or license/team stuff with how ridiculous KESPA monopoly became. Really Korea in general treats under 18 year old "entertainers" like shit, from kpop to esports they basically own them with one sided contracts. If a KESPA like entity takes over SC2 in korea it would be really bad. The less professional it is the better it is for players imo. Korean companies/teams basically have no care for any well being of the players (Listen to the podcast where they even mention this). Independent teams like TL, oGs, EG etc are way better to their players than any kespa team. I would say that kespa and korean entertainment in general is about as close to slavery as you can get in any modern country. The players are so under control by the contracts and how the systems work. The incident with Werra had nothing to do with unions, I would actually say in a kespa like environment he would have just had more power and more access. I think you made a great argument as to why KESPA sucks. But I'm not advocating for fascistic, KESPA-like organization. You make it sound like ALL player's associations have to operate like KESPA. KESPA. Player's association that actually protects players rights. Two different things. Yes, Korean companies and teams do not care about players. This is exactly the kind of situation where a player's association might have value. If players across the board unified than maybe they would have some actual bargaining power when negotiating those on-sided contracts that you're railing against. For example, NBA teams don't bargain on behalf of the players, the NBA Player's Association does. I do agree with InControl, that eventually the good teams will naturally separate themselves from the pack and set a standard. | ||
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desRow
Canada2654 Posts
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On October 26 2010 19:10 Shakes wrote: There are age restrictions on the NBA draft because it gives the NBA a better quality product if they get players who have played a year of college basketball and hence are higher skilled when they join the league. That they can sell it as a measure of "caring for the players welfare" and look good is just a side benefit. Do you think the quality of SC play would improve, as well as the image of the e-sport, if players were older, more experienced and mature? Because if you asked an average person, I think they would imagine that the average professional gamer looked like a shy, mal-adjusted, raging, socially-retarded teenage nerd ... and judging by some of the posts on this board that's not an unfair generalization. Part of the reason the NBA implemented an age restriction is because they are the most image-conscious league in the world. About 80% of the players are Black. Bill Simmons has a great interview with David Stern online, explaining how the NBA overcompensates with rules and restrictions, because they are hyper-aware of how much influence the NBA has on Black culture, and want to combat the negative perception of Black people in America. The league looks bad whenever an immature player rots on a bench for years, or is caught racing down the LA freeway, or has to go to rehab, etc. | ||
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syrupychinadian
112 Posts
I think you made a great argument as to why KESPA sucks. But I'm not advocating for fascistic, KESPA-like organization. You make it sound like ALL player's associations have to operate like KESPA. KESPA. Player's association that actually protects players rights. Two different things. Yes, Korean companies and teams do not care about players. This is exactly the kind of situation where a player's association might have value. If players across the board unified than maybe they would have some actual bargaining power when negotiating those on-sided contracts that you're railing against. For example, NBA teams don't bargain on behalf of the players, the NBA Player's Association does. I do agree with InControl, that eventually the good teams will naturally separate themselves from the pack and set a standard. I agree with this post. I think what a lot of people are misunderstanding is that kespa is NOT a player's union. Kespa is a tournament/sports organization. Think of it like the NBA (not saying NBA is bad). So they care about their profits/income/success, and not so much about players' income/welfare/success. The other side is the player's Union. In the NBA, they argue about salary caps, guaranteed contracts, free agency agreements, etc. The reason why I think Kespa became as "evil" as it is, is because there's not a formal union of players. Sure individual teams could dislike what Kespa does but if you don't follow suit, you get cut. With a union, there's strength in numbers. If every single pro-SC1 player decided not to play until Kespa allowed powerade in the booths, then Kespa might be a little more inclined to listen. Again summary: Kespa =/= a player's union. | ||
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joheinous
Iceland522 Posts
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
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DyEnasTy
United States3721 Posts
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kar1181
United Kingdom515 Posts
Inc -> I think I 'get' your views re the commentary situation now. Perhaps I (and others) weren't listening properly in the first place, or whatever. But I think you explained it succinctly in this episode. All good =] Cheers to all you guys for giving us this content for free too! | ||
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Shakes
Australia557 Posts
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Tabbris
Bangladesh2839 Posts
On October 26 2010 17:38 MavercK wrote: click clack clack click click clack..... click... Jimmy fell in the well?!?! Lets go Nony! | ||
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