• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:30
CEST 07:30
KST 14:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension Who will win EWC 2025? Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame
Brood War
General
Corsair Pursuit Micro? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Pro gamer house photos Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
BWCL Season 63 Announcement CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
[MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 655 users

Scientific proof that SC2 is imbalanced (sorta)

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 11 12 13 Next All
GagnarTheUnruly
Profile Joined July 2010
United States655 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-17 09:20:41
August 16 2010 22:13 GMT
#1
What follows is the world's first scientific analysis testing the hypothesis of whether SC2 is imbalanced! Hopefully this will kill any future debate on the subject (LOL yeah, that didn't happen). Just for clarification, from a functional perspective I believe the game is well balanced. I've also edited this post to encorporate recommendations from the other posters in this thread, so be aware of that if you read the other posts in the thread..

Abstract: A simple statistical analysis revealed that, you guessed it, SC2 is IMBALANCED (technically). However, the degree of imbalance is so infintessimally small that you’d literally have to play millions of games to ever know it. Moreover, my initial analysis suggests that the balance is very consistent across all player skill levels, and I think Blizzard deserves a lot of credit for the hard work they’ve put into balancing Starcraft 2.


Introduction: Ever since the SC2 Beta was released, people have been arguing about whether and which races are imbalanced, and what should be done to fix the balance problem in Starcraft 2. There have been a plague of articles on the subject, some of which I’ve read as I trolled around the TeamLiquid forums. I decided that the best way to settle the issue once and for all was to take a scientific approach, using statistical analysis to test the hypothesis that the races in Starcraft 2 are inbalanced. I'm starting with the only data I have available, which is a table of win/loss results for each game that's been played so far. My hypothesis is that if SC2 is imbalanced, then some races will have better win/loss ratings than others.


Methods: The data I used were found in the ‘stats’ section at sc2ranks.com in the morning of August 16th. Data are reported as win percentages for each race at each league level, and in parentheses is a number that I assumed were the total number of wins in each category. To answer the question of whether Starcraft 2 races have different win/loss ratings, I used a Chi squared analysis in Excel, which let me compare the observed win rate with the rate that would be expected if all races were balanced (i.e. wins were randomly distributed among races within each league). I used available win percentages to estimate overal win rates for the 50 million games of SC2 that have so far been played. I also did a somewhat wonky power analysis to explore how many games you’d have to play before noticing the imbalance. Spoiler: it’s a lot.


Results: OK, Starcraft 2 appears to be technically slightly imbalanced, but before I discuss that I want to raise some observations. First, the league system seems to work fairly well at giving players of diverse skill sets a similarly frustrating online experience. While Bronze players are the whipping-boys of the online SC2 community, with a 42% overall win rate, things are more even in the other leagues, with win rates of 50% for Silver players, rising gradually through the leagues to 56% for the average Diamond player.

[image loading]
[image loading]

Blue shading indicates the race does better than expected, red indicates the race does worse, according to the results from my chi-square analysis (p < 0.001 where significant, n ~ 50 million, 3 d.f.). The light values indicate that differences are only detectable at sample sizes of about 1 million games played.

Regarding the imbalance issue, with the roughly 50 million games that have been uploaded into the sc2ranks.com database, it seems that Starcraft 2 is ever so slightly imbalanced (see Table 1). One thing that really jumps out is that the game is least balanced for bronze players, where Terran players have a distinct disadvantage, winning about 2% fewer games than the other races, and Protoss players have a slight advantage, winning about 1% more games than average.

Among the other leagues, however, the story is quite different. The win rate disparities, although statistically significant, are small, never exceeding a third of a percent in any direction, and averaging a disparity of about 1.5 tenths of a percent. In general, the game appears to be very well balanced from silver through diamond leagues. Within those leagues, Terran has a slight advantage (see, Terran is IMBA!), meaning you’ll win about 2 games in a thousand more often than you should. With Zerg, a thousand games would yield about 1.5 more losses than average (see Zerg is weak and IdrA is the MAN!). Protoss and random aren’t much different from average.

For Diamond-level players, terran is the strongest race with a 56.1% win percentage and random is the worst (55.53%). A Diamond Solo Zen Master would have to play 1801 games to win as random and 1800 to win as zerg, but only 1794 to win as Protoss and 1784 to win as Terran. So if you want Terran mastery, you’ll get it in 17 fewer games than a random player! That’s enough time to take your significant other out to dinner, so if relationships are important to you, I recommend Terran. It also could help win you $2000. For sharing this knowledge with you, I expect a portion of the proceeds.

[image loading]

OK, so I’ve said that the races are imbalanced, but the imbalances are pretty darn small. Because Chi-square tests become extremely sensitive at very large sample sizes, I decided to do a jury rigged power analysis to determine just how many games you’d need to play to detect an imbalance. I basically just ran the Chi-square analysis using simulated data sets of various sample sizes to see how many games you'd have to play before it was obvious that some races won more games than other races.

So, let’s say you play ten thousand games using each race equally (2500 games with each race). If you’re a Silver through Diamond player, you wouldn’t be able to detect a statistically significant difference in your win rate. A Bronze player will notice terran has a disadvantage.

Now let’s say you keep playing until you get to a hundred thousand games. A Bronze player will notice that Protoss is a little extra strong, but players in the other leagues will still think the game is perfectly balanced. In fact, you’d have to play about a million games before you started to notice that the races were imbalanced in the diamond league.

To show the level of balance graphically, I used a sample size of about 100,000 games, played according to the racial proclivities of the player base (so, not all races used equally), because this was the largest sample size for which I could accurately estimate numbers of games won for each race. You can see on the log-transformed graph below that for silver through platinum players, the races are very well balanced, and that racial imbalances are only apparent in bronze level play.

[image loading]

The y-axis just represents how divergent the race is from average (0 on the graph). Higher values indicate that the race does better than expected, and lower means the race does worse. The colored regions at the top and bottom of the graph are the regions of statistical significance (p = 0.005). Mostly the differences between the races aren't significant.

Discussion: My data show that, within a league, each of the races has a rougly equal chance of winning a randomly selected game. This indicates that the balance of SC2 is probably pretty good. People have pointed out that matchmaking would cause this to happen, because it strives to set each player's win rate at 50%. That in turn would cause the win rate of each race to trend towards 50%. That being the case, poor balance would tend to result in 'weak' races getting pushed into the lower tiers of play. Because we don't see that happening either within or among leagues (data not shown), my data suggest both that the matchmaking system works well and that SC2 is inherrently pretty well balanced.

Technically speaking, my results suggest that Starcraft 2 is NOT perfectly balanced, but that the degree of imbalance is so small that it is functionally imperceptible until literally hundreds of thousands of games are played. Also, the imbalance is clearly most extreme and noticeable in the Bronze league. Perhaps this should come as no surprise, because less experienced players are probably much less predicable than more experienced players, because the weakest players are likely to pick the more familiar Terran race, and because the overall level of play in each league is generally lower (in my opinion) than during the Beta, meaning that Blizzard probably didn’t get a strong chance to balance the game for players playing at the current level of Bronze play.

In short, it's my opinion that the designers of SC2 did an amazingly good job of balancing the game, and across a very wide spectrum of player skill levels. So, unless you’ve played a few hundred thousand games of Starcraft 2, rest assured that any sense you have that the game is imbalanced is probably illusory. Hopefully, this analysis will put to rest the question of balance in SC2, at least in many people’s minds.

As a possible next step I could do the same analysis for SC1, and test the hypothesis that SC1 is more balanced than SC2. Based mostly on the suggestions of other people in this thread, I also think it would be a good idea to try to do an analysis where I test to see whether there are matchup imbalances, and whether race use is really consistent among leagues.

Finally, I ask that you not take these results too seriously. This was just a little project that I did for fun. I believe that my results suggest that SC2 is pretty well balanced in general, but I had a pretty limited data set and there are a lot of factors I couldn't account for. If I'm able to get better data I'll do a more involved analysis (unless my experience with this thread burns me out utterly), but until then this is the best that I can offer! Enjoy it for what it's worth!
iEchoic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1776 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-16 22:20:33
August 16 2010 22:15 GMT
#2
I appreciate the effort, but this is all within the scale of like 1-2% difference. That can be attributed to variance as much as anything else. That said, this community will herald this as a great achievement because it is admittedly well-formatted and presented. Nice work, and it looks excellent, but I just read through it and can't find anywhere where you explain that this small difference is significant.

Your last section clears it up but the title and intro is misleading.

Edit: I worded this confusingly - as you said that it is very insigificant - but you say it is imbalanced, just a little bit. I think a more proper description is that there is no evidence of imbalance. This small difference isn't large enough to be attributed to race balance differences, it could be attributed to the community who plays the races, etc.
vileEchoic -- clanvile.com
GagnarTheUnruly
Profile Joined July 2010
United States655 Posts
August 16 2010 22:16 GMT
#3
The sample size is so vast that random chance can't explain the differences, but at the same time they are so small as to be meaningless.
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
August 16 2010 22:18 GMT
#4
Get back to me when you have calculated the win percentage against respective race.

User was warned for this post
StarcraftGuy4U
Profile Joined May 2010
United States74 Posts
August 16 2010 22:18 GMT
#5
None of these stats are worthwhile because the matchmaking system does not assign people like they would in a blind study, instead it is actively adjusting the matches so that every player reaches 50%. The numbers you are pulling are worthless for this reason.
GagnarTheUnruly
Profile Joined July 2010
United States655 Posts
August 16 2010 22:21 GMT
#6
Clarified (hopefully)
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
August 16 2010 22:23 GMT
#7
Scientific proof that the matchmaking system is working

That is all that this is. No conclusions about balance can be drawn from looking at win%, on ladder, when the matchmaking system is specifically designed so that you win about 50% of your games. :|
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
teamsolid
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada3668 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-16 22:25:03
August 16 2010 22:23 GMT
#8
On August 17 2010 07:18 StarcraftGuy4U wrote:
None of these stats are worthwhile because the matchmaking system does not assign people like they would in a blind study, instead it is actively adjusting the matches so that every player reaches 50%. The numbers you are pulling are worthless for this reason.

This. The numbers you are basing the whole analysis on are meaningless for balance purposes, because it's the direct result of a working AMM. Also Terran has the worst win-rate in Bronze league simply because many new players who just finished the campaign would be playing Terran and won't have the slightest clue about how to play properly.
SeaSmoke
Profile Joined July 2010
United States326 Posts
August 16 2010 22:23 GMT
#9
On August 17 2010 07:18 StarcraftGuy4U wrote:
None of these stats are worthwhile because the matchmaking system does not assign people like they would in a blind study, instead it is actively adjusting the matches so that every player reaches 50%. The numbers you are pulling are worthless for this reason.


This...

Matchmaking isn't random...it actively chooses players one should beat after losing.
GagnarTheUnruly
Profile Joined July 2010
United States655 Posts
August 16 2010 22:27 GMT
#10
Ah, I see.. the league system irons out imbalances by selectively keeping weaker races lower in the leagues. I hadn't thought of that. I can see if the proportion of races changes as you move through the leagues...
Toids
Profile Joined June 2010
United States17 Posts
August 16 2010 22:29 GMT
#11
Ya.... you can't pull numbers from the ladder to explain balance. You need to get data from outside of the matchmaking system.
HowardRoark
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
1146 Posts
August 16 2010 22:33 GMT
#12
What you must consider is that if you statistically find that Zerg is underpowered at the diamond league, when diamond league means anyone that have ever played Starcraft 1 or finished the campaign is this:

Imagine how much more the Zerg imbalances skyrocket when you take the top 1 percentile of the diamond (where you have the pro gamers). The numbers you work with must mean that the imbalances at the pro level (which probably are even less than one per mille of the diamond players) would look kind of bleak for the pro zergs.

Just picture your stats if you did this on the D players on iccup, how low win percentage the Terran cerainly have against Protoss, when they at the top top level of BW (where no foreigner as of yet have reached) dominate.

(I beg pardon if this obvious fact have been pointed out earlier in this thread, then ban me, but I am just to tired to read through every post every thread to validate a post).
"It is really good to get the double observatory if you want to get the speed and sight range for the observer simultaneously. It's a little bit of an advanced tactic, and by advanced, I mean really fucking bad."
virgozero
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada412 Posts
August 16 2010 22:34 GMT
#13
another not-smart(dont wanna get B'd) thread based on players statistics.

1.) we know its not 100% balanced that is a given. if you thought so you must be half retarded
2.) this analyzation does not take account for skill, popularity of race, there are too many variables and the assumptions are too large.

Why do people insist on using rankings and statistics to call a race imbalance?

If you think something is imblanace, then just say it and say what part, no need to bring in all the word's #s to inevitably fail your argument. Idra makes good cases, and he states the reason why he thinks terran has an advantage of zerg, you never see him go OMG LOOK AT THESE #s I FOUND !
51-50-49, therefor 51 must be OP !
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
August 16 2010 22:35 GMT
#14
Isn't this math and not science?
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States556 Posts
August 16 2010 22:38 GMT
#15
All this stuff is invalidated because of blizzard's matchmaking service, which will make all but the very best and worst players on the entire ladder converge to a 50% win-rate.
starleague.mit.edu
dcberkeley
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada844 Posts
August 16 2010 22:38 GMT
#16
On August 17 2010 07:35 neobowman wrote:
Isn't this math and not science?

Scientific != science
Moktira is da bomb
tathecat563
Profile Joined April 2010
United States96 Posts
August 16 2010 22:40 GMT
#17
Can you calculate the win rate of diamond vs diamond as well? I think that might shed some more light on possible imbalance.

Since when diamond players play against the lower rank players, they get more wins because of a skill difference. This difference under-exaggerates the difference between just diamond level players playing each race.
Hi
GagnarTheUnruly
Profile Joined July 2010
United States655 Posts
August 16 2010 22:41 GMT
#18
I wouldn't try to extrapolate my 'results' to the pro level, just because the level of play is so great and the game itself is played so differently. Also, I would guess that performance of top-teir pros on the ladder wouldn't closely correlate with tournament performance, due to differences in their play habits. I think the only way to know if SC2 is balanced at the pro level would be to compile results of tournaments, and I suspect that there haven't been enough of those to give a difinitive answer (BW is pretty streak-y for certain races, for example).

Regarding the other criticisms, I was under the impression that players in the same league get roughly the same player draws as one another. Is this true, or do higher ranked players draw from a different pool of players than lower ranked players in the same league?
Andtwo
Profile Joined June 2009
United States126 Posts
August 16 2010 22:42 GMT
#19
What test did you actually use?

The problem I have with that website is that many of the super high level players simply do not ladder very much and instead have practice partners.

I think the best part of this post is the graph for bronze XD
Loser777
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
1931 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-16 22:44:01
August 16 2010 22:42 GMT
#20
This is certainly interesting, but one should also consider the situation from a Brood War perspective... in Brood War -how the winrates of pros of different races are different also yet the game is considered to be balanced (with slight variations)

Such a statistical analysis has problems in that eventually (as we are seeing now), only the confident players in the supposedly underpowered races will play that race -so you're never going to see extreme variations in winrate -people will stop playing the losing race.
6581
1 2 3 4 5 11 12 13 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1d 4h
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft580
Nina 258
NeuroSwarm 134
ProTech62
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 836
Snow 188
Noble 88
soO 71
Dewaltoss 17
NotJumperer 9
Icarus 5
League of Legends
JimRising 894
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1033
Super Smash Bros
amsayoshi55
Other Games
summit1g13258
shahzam1078
ViBE84
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2110
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 70
Other Games
BasetradeTV57
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH241
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1697
• Stunt544
• HappyZerGling53
Other Games
• WagamamaTV123
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
1d 4h
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
2 days
Esports World Cup
3 days
Esports World Cup
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.