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On August 14 2010 13:17 Kigari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 13:15 Moa wrote:
Your only arguments are based off of hyperbole, also he is more of the "Angry Gamer" than "White Trash." I can't imagine how many keyboards he has broken. Do you really expect joe-6 and sally-soccer to make a difference between "angry gamer" and "white trash" ? Both are equally as vulgar and socially outcast. It's sufficient for a vast majority of the populace...
Sure I do, one often times has a lisp and the other has a nice southern twang or unplacable accent. Also I don't really care about joe-6.
I would take IdrAGE over the looks on TLO and Madfrog's faces during their show match. I like someone who shows passion for what they do. Also quoting IdrA is a ton of fun, he says the darndest things.
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I prefer the nice, "most of the time" mannered players over the over-raging ego freaks; Skill or no skill involved.
Axis & Allies heh...
Probably a difference of mentality between euros & yanks on that matter too. Chivalry etc are buried deep on the old continents culture while being an opportunistic and trash-talking mofo is often regarded as a "quality" in the Kwa.
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Wait... so if he predicts ~50% of each race will go through, then wouldn't that be balanced? Maybe I'm thinking about it the wrong way.
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On August 14 2010 13:24 Kigari wrote:
I prefer the nice, "most of the time" mannered players over the over-raging ego freaks; Skill or no skill involved.
Axis & Allies heh...
Probably a difference of mentality between euros & yanks on that matter too. Chivalry etc are buried deep on the old continents culture while being an opportunistic and trash-talking mofo is often regarded as a "quality" in the Kwa.
I feel like you haven't seen much of IdrA. His BM is fairly legendary but I would say that most of the time he is mannered but he gets covered when he rages because it is often hillarious. Also some of your earlier comments were either trolling or you really hadn't seen anything other than his rages because you were insistent that IdrA cheeses which pretty much never happens. Also your comments about IdrA are for the most part everything but well mannered, there are strong words that could be used towards him but "opprotunistic and trash talking mofo" is overboard.
EDIT: Zach
His point about balance is that there are so many more terrans in the tournament not that all the terrans will win.
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On August 14 2010 13:33 Moa wrote:
I feel like you haven't seen much of IdrA. His BM is fairly legendary but I would say that most of the time he is mannered but he gets covered when he rages because it is often hillarious. Also some of your earlier comments were either trolling or you really hadn't seen anything other than his rages because you were insistent that IdrA cheeses which pretty much never happens. Also your comments about IdrA are for the most part everything but well mannered, there are strong words that could be used towards him but "opprotunistic and trash talking mofo" is overboard.
Depends on your definition of cheese; I admitted somewhere in this thread that my "personal" definition of it didn't go with the "globally accepted" idea but it included scrubbish and lame play styles.
Also your comments about IdrA are for the most part everything but well mannered, there are strong words that could be used towards him but "opprotunistic and trash talking mofo" is overboard.
If you treat everyone else like shit, don't be surprised to be treated as such.
If he gets a free ride saying everyone else is trash, so do I about him.
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On August 14 2010 13:46 Kigari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 13:33 Moa wrote:
I feel like you haven't seen much of IdrA. His BM is fairly legendary but I would say that most of the time he is mannered but he gets covered when he rages because it is often hillarious. Also some of your earlier comments were either trolling or you really hadn't seen anything other than his rages because you were insistent that IdrA cheeses which pretty much never happens. Also your comments about IdrA are for the most part everything but well mannered, there are strong words that could be used towards him but "opprotunistic and trash talking mofo" is overboard.
Depends on your definition of cheese; I admitted somewhere in this thread that my "personal" definition of it didn't go with the "globally accepted" idea but it included scrubbish and lame play styles. Show nested quote +Also your comments about IdrA are for the most part everything but well mannered, there are strong words that could be used towards him but "opprotunistic and trash talking mofo" is overboard. If you treat everyone else like shit, don't be surprised to be treated as such. If he gets a free ride saying everyone else is trash, so do I about him.
It is difficult to call a player with 87% win and great tournament records a scrub with a straight face. I guess that term is open to interpretation as well. Again saying someone's play is trash is not equivalent to saying they are trash.
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FE-mass roach A-move & FE-mass muta a-move is scrubbish in my book.
I'd include anything not creative or even slightly unexpected scrubbish ;-) Can it guarantee a win most of the time ? Sure. Does it proves you're good ? Fuck no since anyone else could do just the same...
Take a complete noob at starcraft and teach him how to perfectly do a 7-rax reaper or 6-pool and he'll win 95% of the time... Does it make him good ?
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Awesome video, I really enjoy these semi-casual interviews.
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On August 14 2010 13:54 Kigari wrote:
FE-mass roach A-move & FE-mass muta a-move is scrubbish in my book.
I'd include anything not creative or even slightly unexpected scrubbish ;-) Can it guarantee a win most of the time ? Sure. Does it proves you're good ? Fuck no since anyone else could do just the same...
Take a complete noob at starcraft and teach him how to perfectly do a 7-rax reaper or 6-pool and he'll win 95% of the time... Does it make him good ?
It makes him better than his opponent, also again with the hyperbole 6-pooling all day long I bet a a player will have 30-60% wins based on micro skills. 7-rax reaper I'm not sure about, I know I've never lost to it but I haven't seen it much. Also there are times where non-creative play is the way to go, if someone leaves a gaping hole in their army composition it may not be creative to exploit that hole but it is effective.
While this may be a fun debate I'm done for the night.
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On August 14 2010 13:24 Kigari wrote:
Probably a difference of mentality between euros & yanks on that matter too. Chivalry etc are buried deep on the old continents culture while being an opportunistic and trash-talking mofo is often regarded as a "quality" in the Kwa.
Sorry but that made me lol
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On August 14 2010 14:13 Skeyser wrote:
Sorry but that made me lol
Sad but true. Cultural & societal differences make a big difference in the way someone acts or plays in various circumstances.
As an example, a european player might be more inclined to "cut some slack" to an adversary who's clearly not on-par while an american wouldn't give a rats ass and "take the win" or "get ahead" as it's the sort of crap shoved down the throats of kids there ;-)
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On August 14 2010 13:54 Kigari wrote:
FE-mass roach A-move & FE-mass muta a-move is scrubbish in my book.
I'd include anything not creative or even slightly unexpected scrubbish ;-) Can it guarantee a win most of the time ? Sure. Does it proves you're good ? Fuck no since anyone else could do just the same...
Take a complete noob at starcraft and teach him how to perfectly do a 7-rax reaper or 6-pool and he'll win 95% of the time... Does it make him good ?
what? zerg a-moving in sc1? you have never played zerg in sc1, it was almost as difficult as terran. swarm and zergling control with lurkers was one of the most micro intensive things in brood war.
dude just stop trying to defend your opinion about how idra cheeses because he plays a lame playstyle, and how zerg players are genuinely trash.
you have no knowledge of starcraft, and you've been on this board for like a week, 7 rax reaper does not win games 95% of the time, 6 pool does not win games 95% of the time, there is no such thing as fe-mass roach a-move since roach supply nerf and stuff like mass muta a-move is just complete bull. you cannot a-move mutas since they are so weak individually, if you let your concentration go for a second 20 stimmed marines -> all your mutas.
if you've seen the idra interviews you would know how well mannered he is and he even talked to CNN.
and your comment about how americans and europeans is just downright wrong. don't come on these forums in the sc2 general thread giving us a lesson about how americans are assholes
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On August 14 2010 14:37 shawster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 13:54 Kigari wrote:
FE-mass roach A-move & FE-mass muta a-move is scrubbish in my book.
I'd include anything not creative or even slightly unexpected scrubbish ;-) Can it guarantee a win most of the time ? Sure. Does it proves you're good ? Fuck no since anyone else could do just the same...
Take a complete noob at starcraft and teach him how to perfectly do a 7-rax reaper or 6-pool and he'll win 95% of the time... Does it make him good ? what? zerg a-moving in sc1? you have never played zerg in sc1, it was almost as difficult as terran. swarm and zergling control with lurkers was one of the most micro intensive things in brood war. dude just stop trying to defend your opinion about how idra cheeses because he plays a lame playstyle, and how zerg players are genuinely trash. you have no knowledge of starcraft, and you've been on this board for like a week, 7 rax reaper does not win games 95% of the time, 6 pool does not win games 95% of the time, there is no such thing as fe-mass roach a-move since roach supply nerf and stuff like mass muta a-move is just complete bull. you cannot a-move mutas since they are so weak individually, if you let your concentration go for a second 20 stimmed marines -> all your mutas. if you've seen the idra interviews you would know how well mannered he is and he even talked to CNN. and your comment about how americans and europeans is just downright wrong. don't come on these forums in the sc2 general thread giving us a lesson about how americans are assholes
Very well said. Great post man. 
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On August 13 2010 23:40 Arcticc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 23:36 PanzerDragoon wrote:
I mean, TvZ is likely imbalanced (but I can't see without number crunching of top games over a good sample size), but for 99% of the players, you aren't losing because of race imbalance, so stop using it as a crutch. It has nothing to do with whether Idra thinks its imba. Its how he treats every non-Korean as some inferior peon who can only beat him by getting lucky or cheese, even when its clearly not true. I seriously think he has some sort of racial inferiority complex, because he literally never BMs koreans if he loses, but will pretty much BM any European or American player if he loses.
Also, of course a Zerg icon. I Well, you have to understand that he has devoted much MUCH more time to the Starcraft games than most of these top players. It would be frustrating to you to see someone come into your 'field' and use cheap tricks to get ahead. Maybe terran imbalanced isn't affecting a lot of levels of play, but the level it would have most affect on is Idra's. Thus, why he makes complaints about it. Because that imbalance could me a shot at earning some money.
... and IdrA is all-knowing and can't make mistakes and finds out everything? Sorry kid, he is still human and makes mistakes, but after repeating the "Terran is IMBA" mantra so often to himself he stopped thinking about it and actually believes it.
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On August 14 2010 14:37 shawster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 13:54 Kigari wrote:
FE-mass roach A-move & FE-mass muta a-move is scrubbish in my book.
I'd include anything not creative or even slightly unexpected scrubbish ;-) Can it guarantee a win most of the time ? Sure. Does it proves you're good ? Fuck no since anyone else could do just the same...
Take a complete noob at starcraft and teach him how to perfectly do a 7-rax reaper or 6-pool and he'll win 95% of the time... Does it make him good ? what? zerg a-moving in sc1? you have never played zerg in sc1, it was almost as difficult as terran. swarm and zergling control with lurkers was one of the most micro intensive things in brood war. dude just stop trying to defend your opinion about how idra cheeses because he plays a lame playstyle, and how zerg players are genuinely trash. you have no knowledge of starcraft, and you've been on this board for like a week, 7 rax reaper does not win games 95% of the time, 6 pool does not win games 95% of the time, there is no such thing as fe-mass roach a-move since roach supply nerf and stuff like mass muta a-move is just complete bull. you cannot a-move mutas since they are so weak individually, if you let your concentration go for a second 20 stimmed marines -> all your mutas. if you've seen the idra interviews you would know how well mannered he is and he even talked to CNN. and your comment about how americans and europeans is just downright wrong. don't come on these forums in the sc2 general thread giving us a lesson about how americans are assholes
Anyone who knows me knows that I have never been a fan of Irdas. I have never liked him or how he acts. And this was prior to most of the Sc II Rage videos being posted. With that said, I have to agree with you. I couldn't have said it better myself, well... I possibly could have :-)
I do think when we speak of Idra and his rages, we need to discrn between his interviews and in game. Most complaints will be from in-game and not in interviews. Granted, there have been interviews that I did not like what he said or how he said certain things, but then again, that is my opinion.
P.S. I love reaper rushes, I am a protoss and it makes me happy knowing that is what they are going for. 95% win ratio for 6-pool or 7-rax is a load of bollocks.
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I wonder why this thread is still running, since it was destined to be a "discussion" about manners and not Starcraft from the beginning. Most other people would probably have been told to "blog it" ... since it contains PERSONAL OPINION, but not Artosis ...
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I feel like so much of the whining relating to balance in this game is a result of the Base Rate Fallacy. It's somewhat embarrassing to see so many "good" players make this mistake over and over.
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On August 14 2010 15:57 Rabiator wrote:
I wonder why this thread is still running, since it was destined to be a "discussion" about manners and not Starcraft from the beginning. Most other people would probably have been told to "blog it" ... since it contains PERSONAL OPINION, but not Artosis ...
Most people wouldn't be able to provide a video interview with a pro player in Korea.
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On August 14 2010 16:00 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 15:57 Rabiator wrote:
I wonder why this thread is still running, since it was destined to be a "discussion" about manners and not Starcraft from the beginning. Most other people would probably have been told to "blog it" ... since it contains PERSONAL OPINION, but not Artosis ... Most people wouldn't be able to provide a video interview with a pro player in Korea.
And that makes it less of a personal opinion in which way? I didnt say it was Artosis' opinion, although both guys constantly repeat the "Terran is IMBA" mantra when they lose and "I am so good" mantra when they win. Personal is personal, even if it is in a video.
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Still waiting for some amazing creative replays from Kigari where he owns high level Terrans with ''creative'' play. Something tells me we won't see it. Maybe you can share some replays of Zergs destroying you when you play your Terran, with this very creative play that everybody else but you seem to have missed.
But its still fun to see his posts, ignorance is bliss.
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EPT
