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Russian Federation10 Posts
Hello everyone !
It is not a secret that you can add anyone by right-click in lobby or after game and see the person's build orders in many matches. Since Idra recently spoke about this question, I started thinking that practically any tournament right now is vulnerable to this problem. The fact that there is no privacy in the way you play your games ruins the competitive basis of StarCraft.
My question is (since I couldnt find it on blizz forums) - is there any response from Blizzard on this matter? Are they going to fix it somehow or they don't see any problem about it?
I think it is easily solvable by letting the user choose which info they want to show on their profile page (much like Facebook ^^) or at least give the opportunity to hide your match record.
Since there is no privacy right now and everyone can add you - this, at least, will prevent players from studying your playstyle before you actually play with them 
Any suggestions on this matter ?
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I dont they people raged enough over it.
Hopefully they address this issue though, or you need a smurf or 2 to play in a tournament setting.
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Russian Federation10 Posts
But no official answer from Blizz regarding it ? We all have hope that they will solve it, but again - did they even notice how fatal it is?
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yeah I'm really hoping there is some sort of privacy settings available so we can set what we want and don't want others to see...
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I like that people can see each others build orders. It allows you to see what is working for other people and perhaps try to make it work for yourself. As for how it effects competitive play, I think this isn't a huge deal because:
1) The same could be said for the replay system, which has been around for longer, and which is much more informative.
2) There is a tremendous difference between knowing a build order and executing a build order. Having extensive experience with a particular build and knowing it's timings and ins and outs is pretty important.
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Spaceyeti, have you ever seen a replay pack from Jaedong, Stork, Flash, or any other high level player? No. The same could not be said for the replay system.
And as for knowing and executing a build order; progamers practice 8-12 hours a day and have extensive knowledge of a wide variety of build orders. If they are able to see what types of builds their opponents are practicing, it could seriously hurt tournament play.
Hopefully Blizzard at least addresses this issue.
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Russian Federation10 Posts
SpaceYeti, since Headshot already said most of it, I only have to add, that we are not talking about replay study here. We are talking about playing a tournament and adding your competitor to see his recent builds and learning his overall style or strategy (early rax, pool, etc). It takes only a brief look to see what he was up to.
As an example - I guess a lot of people remember Dimaga winning through ZOTAC (or was it other tournament, I forgot) rushing terran walls with banelings. So just imagine that I am a terran and I look at Dimaga's games and see that he has built early baneling nest and then he won on 8th minute - and it happened like 5 times. If I am not stupid - Im gonna counter it with hard wall (2 rax, factory, etc).
And also, Yeti, I dont see the relevance of BO timing here. Im not gonna make same BO, Im gonna COUNTER my opponent's BO
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Blizzard needs to add two privacy features to B.Net 2.0 in my opinion:
1. Privacy Setting - allow messaging in game to be turned on/off, allow/disallow people to randomly add you, turn off/on facebook intergration
2. Record Setting - allow/disallow players to watch your replays without download, show/hide your battle.net rank and record
With these two aspects [obviously they also need to add LAN, chatrooms, and cross-region play, but this is not what the topic is on] b.net 2.0 would be much more friendly to the professional, casual, and semi-serious gamer.
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There is a difference between knowing the build order and being able to perform it correctly. People don't know what is good by copying the pros. The only way you can know what is good, proper and right, is by trial and error. Knowing what is bad and why, what is good and why and by practicing.
I have never looked up or copied a build order in my life... and you know what? When I watch the pro games, many of the players use the exact same build as I do. How did I get to that build? Well by cutting a probe here, waiting a little longer to build a pylon there... Basically by refining my own build that common sense taught me in my first few games.
Bad players will be bad no matter how much they try to copy the good players.
Good players will be good, because they know what is needed to be good... refinement, efficiency and practice. You can't copy that.
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Just add the option to play custom games (ie not ladder) without the replays being publicly available.
That seems an easy solution. There is reason behind having replays publicly available, because newer players can check out what BOs are decent more easily. This will not be stopped by an option to play privately, as plenty of high diamond players will happily be releasing replays + playing on ladder.
If you are seriously practicing a build, it is with a practice partner anyway. The pro ladder would be for the glory, no need to conceal those games.
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On June 24 2010 09:33 Zanez.smarty wrote:
There is a difference between knowing the build order and being able to perform it correctly. People don't know what is good by copying the pros. The only way you can know what is good, proper and right, is by trial and error. Knowing what is bad and why, what is good and why and by practicing.
I have never looked up or copied a build order in my life... and you know what? When I watch the pro games, many of the players use the exact same build as I do. How did I get to that build? Well by cutting a probe here, waiting a little longer to build a pylon there... Basically by refining my own build that common sense taught me in my first few games.
Bad players will be bad no matter how much they try to copy the good players.
Good players will be good, because they know what is needed to be good... refinement, efficiency and practice. You can't copy that.
The point is pros stealing eachothers replays before tournaments, and countering what the other has been practicing beforehand.
Baddies ''stealing'' replays is not an issue at all, as you point out.
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I agree that info about custom games shouldn't be published at all.
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this /\
a simple inital fix would be to not post detailed info about custom games. This would require little effort.
I'm sure they will come with a something, in fact I'm sure they have a number of plans already. I realize people feel it's late into the beta but there will be a lot of changes coming to B.Net2
A lot of people rag on B.Net2, but lets not forget that the epiclyhard part is building the backbone and infasructure to B.Net2 and such, smaller interface type changes are fairly easy and quick (days/weeks work not months).
I think this is something worth talking about, but will be solved soon.
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Why not leave it up to the individual player if his BO should be published or not.
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Who does that?
P1: Ready?
P2: No wait brb for a min while I check your builds.
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On June 24 2010 09:59 hellokitty[hk] wrote:
Who does that?
P1: Ready?
P2: No wait brb for a min while I check your builds.
lolz, funny, but really, they check the build orders way before the game begins
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On June 24 2010 09:59 hellokitty[hk] wrote:
Who does that?
P1: Ready?
P2: No wait brb for a min while I check your builds.
In ladder games? no one. You do not even know who you are playing against. If you want to cheat, use a maphacker.
When thousands of dollars are involved? Why not? I can fire a PhD in china for $100 USD to analyze the last 250 games my opponent has been playing.
Take the last MSL for example. Jaedong would know Flash has been practicing 14cc a lot and can go about expecting it.
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This argument fails and I'll use an example from chess to explain why. In chess everyone can see what openings (which are pretty much the same thing as a build order) their opponent uses, long before the tournament, it's part of every player's preparation.
You should use the fact that your opponent knows your build orders to your advantage by changing things up to catch your opponent by surprise. Chess players do this all the time.
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On June 24 2010 10:13 Dionyseus wrote:
This argument fails and I'll use an example from chess to explain why. In chess everyone can see what openings (which are pretty much the same thing as a build order) their opponent uses, long before the tournament, it's part of every player's preparation.
You should use the fact that your opponent knows your build orders to your advantage by changing things up to catch your opponent by surprise. Chess players do this all the time.
In chess, you can still sit down with a practice partner (or, at top level, more likely a team of people and computer programs) and go over your ''secret weapon'' opening a couple of times without people knowing.
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On June 24 2010 10:09 Hikari wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2010 09:59 hellokitty[hk] wrote:
Who does that?
P1: Ready?
P2: No wait brb for a min while I check your builds. In ladder games? no one. You do not even know who you are playing against. If you want to cheat, use a maphacker. When thousands of dollars are involved? Why not? I can fire a PhD in china for $100 USD to analyze the last 250 games my opponent has been playing. Take the last MSL for example. Jaedong would know Flash has been practicing 14cc a lot and can go about expecting it.
Really? So you go into the game expecting him to go 14-cc, you prepare for it... then he doesn't. Now what?
No one is going to be stupid enough to risk thousands of dollars by assuming he is going a build he has been practicing a lot... It is never 100%.
This argument holds no water.
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EPT
