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Hi!
This was in the patch notes "Anti-Air splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage. "
When playing I have seen that this has made a big difference in the thor against muta fight. Even if 2 mutas are side by side touching only the mutalisk that was shot takes damage but it still splashes if they are stacked on top of eachother in a ball.
Do you think thors are still a good mutalisk counter, did they even need the splash or was that just a good way of getting people to try them out and see they can be good anti light even without it? Or do you think this change makes no difference at all since in very large numbers they ball anyway?
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Blizzard is just bracing us for the Muta micro to come.
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Seems to me that they still demolish mutas.
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I've noticed this too, especially in a game I played yesterday, I'm hardly finding them cost effective vs muta anymore. Or you really need to be lucky to get a shot off right when they move up and clump.
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isnt the only difference that they hit AT rather than IN FRONT now? also i think that the splash stays attached to the units (the thor missiles follow the target even after first missile hits) where before they kept on hitting same place = thor should be better vs moving targets now. im not sure this is how it is tho
i feel like siege tanks have become quite alot better but thors seem to be the same. they should be better than before tho
the splash is small but usually big armies like 12+mutas usually clump up in a line and u hit about 3 of them 
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On May 13 2010 01:27 AssuredVacancy wrote:
Seems to me that they still demolish mutas.
This.
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Well, with the new splash from the centre of the target thing that seige tanks are rocking they're far, FAR more powerful, so I don't know why it'd be any different for air. If anything I'd expect it to be even better.
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On May 13 2010 01:32 MorroW wrote:isnt the only difference that they hit AT rather than IN FRONT now? also i think that the splash stays attached to the units (the thor missiles follow the target even after first missile hits) where before they kept on hitting same place = thor should be better vs moving targets now. im not sure this is how it is tho i feel like siege tanks have become quite alot better but thors seem to be the same. they should be better than before tho the splash is small but usually big armies like 12+mutas usually clump up in a line and u hit about 3 of them
Yes this is exactly what it means. I dunno how the OP thought this was a nerf. Previously the splash used to hit a set point wbhere the air units was at impact which would make fast units able to run from the splash in some cicrumstances. All this change did was make it so that units can't escape the splash. This is a clear buff and an improvement vs muta.
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"All this change did was make it so that units can't escape the splash. This is a clear buff and an improvement vs muta."
As far as I know the only difference is that the splash is in the middle of the unit instead of in front. When it was in front it hit more units as long as there was something in front of it and it seemed to hit units on the side of the target too. It doesnt do this when the damage is exactly in the middle of the unit.
I don't know anything about set targets and being able to dodge thor missiles in the previous patch are you sure that was even possible? because the patch notes said nothing about that. Ive seen 8 muta beat 2 thors now.
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thors are a lot worse vs mutas now
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played a 2v2 last night where my partner had about 35 mutas stacked ran into 2 thors and ball evaporated in seconds completely turning the game around. I don't think mutas are viable against thors unless spread.
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United States7166 Posts
how to attack thors with mutas (or air units)
If needed, right click to group mutas up somewhere (when outside of battle)
Let them spread out automatically
Always use Move (right click) to move not attack move. mutas should retain the spread formation
click to move next to or past the thor
once all mutas are in range to attack thor, attack it. very few will take damage from splash. if you want/have time, you can individually split them up for better damage control
If you however just attack move from afar at a thor, they'll all attack when they get in range (obviously!), which makes them all stack up in small arc and get completely owned
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On May 13 2010 02:15 Zelniq wrote:
how to attack thors with mutas (or air units)
If needed, right click to group mutas up somewhere (when outside of battle)
Let them spread out automatically
Always use Move (right click) to move not attack move. mutas should retain the spread formation
click to move next to or past the thor
once all mutas are in range to attack thor, attack it. very few will take damage from splash. if you want/have time, you can individually split them up for better damage control
If you however just attack move from afar at a thor, they'll all attack when they get in range (obviously!), which makes them all stack up in small arc and get completely owned
Interesting.
I did my own tests and thors are slightly better than presplash but significantly worse from the previous patch. In larger numbers they are still quite strong vs mutas because larger armies = more clump = more splash. I did observe that if mutas are spread out so that they don't overlap there appears to be no splash at all.
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On May 13 2010 02:22 Floophead_III wrote:
Interesting.
I did my own tests and thors are slightly better than presplash but significantly worse from the previous patch. In larger numbers they are still quite strong vs mutas because larger armies = more clump = more splash. I did observe that if mutas are spread out so that they don't overlap there appears to be no splash at all.
I just did a similar test. 5 Mutas vs. 1 Thor. I found the same result, if the Mutalisks are not clumped together and spread out then they take no spash damage.
They also do not have to be far from each other, the splash radius seems very small compared to how slowly the thor fires.
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I've had similar experiences with the thor as I used them pretty extensively pre-patch. For whatever reason it seems like the splash only really hits like in the example Zelniq described. I don't know if Blizzard thought they were buffing them with this change or what, but to me it definitely seems like a nerf, albeit slight. Some people are posting about being able to dodge the splash of the missiles if you flew away fast enough(??), but I never experienced that pre-patch 11. Makes me sad, Thor is my favorite unit.
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Here is my answer to mutalisks. Thank god for rednecks in space!
![[image loading]](http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/7016/airbat.jpg)
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Oh my God, I read these threads and realize we need to have a SC2 section restricted to 1400+ plat players.
Seriously? The new splash is a NERF? You guys NEED to be playing WAY MORE than 1 game where you rush out 2 thors with 5 maruaders and get destroyed by 10 muta and 20 roach before you come here crying about OPed. The new splash is HUUUUUGE buff, and thors DEMOLISH air, especially if you have a few 'rines with your thors.
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On May 13 2010 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
Oh my God, I read these threads and realize we need to have a SC2 section restricted to 1400+ plat players.
Seriously? The new splash is a NERF? You guys NEED to be playing WAY MORE than 1 game where you rush out 2 thors with 5 maruaders and get destroyed by 10 muta and 20 roach before you come here crying about OPed. The new splash is HUUUUUGE buff, and thors DEMOLISH air, especially if you have a few 'rines with your thors.
Several of the posters in this thread are well respected members of the community, and thought of as excellent players.
No one is crying nerf, they are discussing the changes to the way splash damage is calculated for air units. Specifically Thor vs. Mutalisk.
The new patch makes it much easier to dodge splash if you are moving, or spread out. That is what they have found.
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On May 13 2010 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
Oh my God, I read these threads and realize we need to have a SC2 section restricted to 1400+ plat players.
Seriously? The new splash is a NERF? You guys NEED to be playing WAY MORE than 1 game where you rush out 2 thors with 5 maruaders and get destroyed by 10 muta and 20 roach before you come here crying about OPed. The new splash is HUUUUUGE buff, and thors DEMOLISH air, especially if you have a few 'rines with your thors.
Troll much?
I too have noticed that Thors are much much worse against air compared to the previous patch. The new splash change doesn't seem to have been implemented correctly.
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On May 13 2010 03:32 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
Oh my God, I read these threads and realize we need to have a SC2 section restricted to 1400+ plat players.
Seriously? The new splash is a NERF? You guys NEED to be playing WAY MORE than 1 game where you rush out 2 thors with 5 maruaders and get destroyed by 10 muta and 20 roach before you come here crying about OPed. The new splash is HUUUUUGE buff, and thors DEMOLISH air, especially if you have a few 'rines with your thors.
good cause you wont' be able to post in it.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img28.imageshack.us/i/airbat.jpg/)
