|
On May 07 2010 07:48 MidKnight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 07:39 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On May 07 2010 07:36 MidKnight wrote:On May 07 2010 07:21 zomgzergrush wrote:The changes to Neural Parasite are there to try to protect the Ultralisk from being mind controlled too easily. Yes, because you see ULTRALISKS in bloody ZvZ!!!Seriously, what league/games are these guys looking at? Yep... This is exactly why people were afraid that Blizz may fail.. At least when they didn't have this situation report thing we didn't know what were they thinking..Now it becomes more clear that sometimes they have no clue.. Don't you get it? They did this change so you actually can play Ultralisks in ZvsZ now even though it's still ridiculous stupid to do so right now. Before however, it was out of question. I mean there's nothing easier than mindcontrolling a huge Ultralisk. edit: Sorry for double post, expected someone to post inbetween. And how different would MC'ing an ultra would be compared to Thor/BC/Mothership? My main point was that their reasoning for nerfing Neural Parasite was because of Ultralisk. Which is like the most irrelevant thing ever, hence my post
we won't know how irrelevant the change is until we can see how they will change the ultralisk in the next patch.
|
Sentry- The damage has been decreased from 8 to 6.
We are seeing a lot of Force Fields which we really, really like. We don’t want to see fewer Force Fields, but we do want to see a higher cost for those Force Fields. By reducing Sentry damage we believe that Protoss players will have to be more careful about the number of Sentry they make.
This is just sad..... it just ... sucks ....
|
Thors are no longer as effective against Roaches (for example) without fire support from Marauders.
This is not true, they used to take 2 hits to kill roaches and now take 3 which is the same amount of time.
They are, however, much weaker against Hydralisks as even with +3 attack they will never kill them as fast as they do now. I have run the time-to-kill numbers on this change and it seems almost across the board to be a nerf.
|
You guys quoting the bit about the Ultralisk realize Blizzard is several patches ahead of the public right? That was made clear in one of the recent interviews Browder did, he wasn't even really sure what version we were playing... The reason that says something about Ultralisks, even though they aren't used in public much, is because internally they were probably being used a lot after the buffs they also got. The strike cannon nerf was probably a similar thing.
Possible order of events:
1. Hey guys, Ultralisks aren't being used much..
2. Ultralisks buffed, everyone is required to use them (internally)
3. Ultralisks get owned by thor's strike,
4. Internal patch to nerf strike a bit
5. ultra's owned by infestor NP
6. Patch cut to nerf NP a bit
7. Oh look, they happen to notice, all my other ground units are getting owned by splash damage when I use ultralisks because whaddya know, splash hits hit at the front of a unit instead of the center
etc etc... finally changes are compiled and we have patch 11... keep in mind this was probably weeks ago and they're back in the earlier parts of the process for the next change..
|
I am happy they are sharing their thoughts with us. Everyone can complain but this is a beta so let's try all these new changes for a week or so befo we get all upset.
|
On May 07 2010 07:54 yomi wrote:Show nested quote +Thors are no longer as effective against Roaches (for example) without fire support from Marauders. This is not true, they used to take 2 hits to kill roaches and now take 3 which is the same amount of time. They are, however, much weaker against Hydralisks as even with +3 attack they will never kill them as fast as they do now. I have run the time-to-kill numbers on this change and it seems almost across the board to be a nerf.
It's not so much about the time it takes to kill the roach...it's how much overkill there is. or wasting a shot rather. Unless if you micro so it attacks a full hp unit and have the rest of your army clean up. But if you take into account the rest of your army, it's a pointless argument.
|
I dont know whether this is the best thread, but I got the following message when trying to play a game:
SC2MASTER_SERVER_ERROR_INVALID_DATA
Does this mean my patch was downloaded incorrectly? 
Or does this concerns the server? (Im from Europe btw).
|
I made a post criticizing the new patch, it was closed and I was told to post in the situation report thread, which was posted after my thread. So when I attempted to do that I discovered I was banned.
haha, oh blizzard
|
LOLOL we're supposed to counter standard gates into void ray with INFESTORS?
With a NP that costs 150/150, takes 2 min to research and needs 100 mana?
A likely story.
|
I really like the changes
|
Aw, I was just starting to use neural parasite. I guess it'll take a bit more planning now. (and haha against void rays?)
|
On May 07 2010 07:59 santoki wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 07:54 yomi wrote:Thors are no longer as effective against Roaches (for example) without fire support from Marauders. This is not true, they used to take 2 hits to kill roaches and now take 3 which is the same amount of time. They are, however, much weaker against Hydralisks as even with +3 attack they will never kill them as fast as they do now. I have run the time-to-kill numbers on this change and it seems almost across the board to be a nerf. It's not so much about the time it takes to kill the roach...it's how much overkill there is. or wasting a shot rather. Unless if you micro so it attacks a full hp unit and have the rest of your army clean up. But if you take into account the rest of your army, it's a pointless argument.
It's not about how much overkill there is, that is a metric of effective dps vs theoretical maximum dps. It's about time to kill or shots to kill, as I stated. That is what wins and loses fights, how much time does it take to kill a unit. Thors used to do 180 damage in 2 shots and now do 180 damage in 3 shots aka the same time. They used to, however, do 90 damage in 1 shot killing a hydra and now take 2 shots to kill a hydra regardless of damage upgrade. 2 shots take longer than 1 so they are in fact weaker against Hydras and I do have a legitimate argument. They are now more likely to overkill a hydra by a larger margin than before. If they attack a Hydra with 50 hp or less (ignoring armor) they are overkilling by 10+hp where before they would always overkill by 10hp but never more. This causes their effective DPS to be less vs Hydras.
|
United States7166 Posts
i know it's not my thread but I'm requesting a mod to kindly rename this to Patch 11 Situation Report or something, in the side bar it looks like patch notes which everyone's seen. i dunno, i may be a little crazy
|
would a +1 armor upgrade for tanks in siege mode work? I feel like that would be more useful than other tank buffs w/o breaking the unit assuming blizzard is insistent on leaving the costs the same. This could help with the fact that toss has so many ways to close to range with siege tanks? If tanks were given a damage buff that could lead to several other problems I guessing.
|
That wasn't their only reasoning though. They clearly mention the Thor and other units.
|
the splash damage thing sounds like a buff to ultras imo.. kinda drives sieged tanks down even more late game?
amirightfolks?
|
On May 07 2010 07:22 Mr.Eternity wrote:Show nested quote +It looks like they're trying to say that the entire Patch 11 was to get people to build Ultralisks. because 2 or 3 balance changes were the entire patch...
Colossus damage change benefits ultras, making armour count for more
Thor damage change benefits ultras, making armour count for more
Thor 250mm cannon nerf benefits ultras
Change to all splash benefits ultras
Broodlord nerf+pheonix buff+NP affecting air all benefit ultras, as it weakened the air tech-path
Infestor nerf benefited ultras, harder to NP them
sentry nerf benefits ultras, as there will be less forcefields, and sentries will now hardly be able to scratch ultras. (6 armour vs 9 attack if both fully upged)
Actually almost all of the changes DO benefit using ultralisks...
|
United States7166 Posts
all those changes dont matter at all for ultralisks
force fields make ultralisks WORTHLESS
stimmed marauders which any decent terran already has a bunch of...completely rapes ultralisks
no matter what changes Blizzard has in store for ultralisks in patch 12+, unless forcefield is changed, ultras, along with zerglings/banelings, will be terrible units vs protoss
|
On May 07 2010 08:43 Zelniq wrote:
all those changes dont matter at all for ultralisks
force fields make ultralisks WORTHLESS
stimmed marauders which any decent terran already has a bunch of...completely rapes ultralisks
no matter what changes Blizzard has in store for ultralisks in patch 12+, unless forcefield is changed, ultras, along with zerglings/banelings, will be terrible units vs protoss
I don't think blizzard has figured out the main point yet that with their TERRIBLE terrible damage system, armor is more of a liability than an advantage.
Who cares if an ultra has 100 armor if armor counters do +99999 to armored units?
EDIT: Seriously, get a clue blizz. Ultralisks will never see the light of day unless a handfull of mauraders stop killing them instantly in 3 seconds.
|
On May 07 2010 09:06 zomgzergrush wrote:
I don't think blizzard has figured out the main point yet that with their TERRIBLE terrible damage system, armor is more of a liability than an advantage.
Who cares if an ultra has 100 armor if armor counters do +99999 to armored units?
You just don't get it, it's part of their new casual-friendly RTS model...
/yeahright
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
