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On May 07 2010 07:13 majesty.k)seRapH wrote:i really still dont like how much they changed the game. force field is just as strong, hellions are even MORE micro intensive when focusing on DPS rather than kiting, and the thorship just got a massive nerf.  at least they're starting to acknowledge the sheer power of broodlords...
Against workers and other low health units thorship got a buff since they'll still one shot them and it'll be easier to get off two shots before you have to fly off again.
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As with all the patches in the Beta it seems Blizzard is moving in the right direction, but fails to hit the target where it needs to be fixed. The problem with Ultras was never Thors strike cannons, the problem was all the units that come out far earlier than Ultras with huge +Armored bonuses that can cut through them like a hot knife through butter. The only dead-on changes I can really see are the BC and Raven changes. The reason that both were never seen before is because the gas cost to get both basically means you have to choose one or the other. The way is now people can Raven mid game and transition into cruisers.
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I really really like the idea of this "situation report" to make the balance change reasonings as transparent as possible. Should really help the TL community better respond to Blizz's changes.
GJ to Blizz for starting this. More communication to the community is a very good thing.
edit: 200th post! Yea!!!! ^_^
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United States7166 Posts
i really like how theyre doing this situation report
that being said, WTF @ some of their explanations:
Sentry- The damage has been decreased from 8 to 6.
We are seeing a lot of Force Fields which we really, really like. We don’t want to see fewer Force Fields, but we do want to see a higher cost for those Force Fields. By reducing Sentry damage we believe that Protoss players will have to be more careful about the number of Sentry they make.
The changes to Neural Parasite are there to try to protect the Ultralisk from being mind controlled too easily.
my god....-_-;;
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I guess we'll be seeing more thor drops now. Cool.
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On May 07 2010 07:21 Zeke50100 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 07:19 HydroXy wrote:
Okay, point taken on the static part (edited my post). But why wasn't 6 seconds already reasonable? Proxy Crawlers, moving positions of Spine Crawlers a few seconds after scouting the enemy coming into your base being too powerful, etc.
Ultimately, this shouldn't matter significantly in midgame, and especially not in late game. The change does have a huge impact in the early game when Zerg just have the FE up and need a defensive bonus in holding off timing pushes. Only way to be ready for this is to pull Spine Crawlers up from the main and move it to the newly-laid creep from the FE (or build near the FE hatch and uproot once creep has spread.) Now this takes double that amount of time and makes defending timing pushes that much harder.
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Guys, don't see this as a "We just fixed Ultras!"; see it more like a "We're fixing some larger-scale things first, which will help us better prepare for the major Ultra Overhaul" patch.
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I think nobody should ever build Ultras until they buff it so much that it will kill anything that is outside fog of war.
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On May 07 2010 07:31 HydroXy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 07:21 Zeke50100 wrote:On May 07 2010 07:19 HydroXy wrote:
Okay, point taken on the static part (edited my post). But why wasn't 6 seconds already reasonable? Proxy Crawlers, moving positions of Spine Crawlers a few seconds after scouting the enemy coming into your base being too powerful, etc. Ultimately, this shouldn't matter significantly in midgame, and especially not in late game. The change does have a huge impact in the early game when Zerg just have the FE up and need a defensive bonus in holding off timing pushes. Only way to be ready for this is to pull Spine Crawlers up from the main and move it to the newly-laid creep from the FE (or build near the FE hatch and uproot once creep has spread.) Now this takes double that amount of time and makes defending timing pushes that much harder.
Go watch Korean Zerg players 
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On May 07 2010 07:34 Zeke50100 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 07:31 HydroXy wrote:On May 07 2010 07:21 Zeke50100 wrote:On May 07 2010 07:19 HydroXy wrote:
Okay, point taken on the static part (edited my post). But why wasn't 6 seconds already reasonable? Proxy Crawlers, moving positions of Spine Crawlers a few seconds after scouting the enemy coming into your base being too powerful, etc. Ultimately, this shouldn't matter significantly in midgame, and especially not in late game. The change does have a huge impact in the early game when Zerg just have the FE up and need a defensive bonus in holding off timing pushes. Only way to be ready for this is to pull Spine Crawlers up from the main and move it to the newly-laid creep from the FE (or build near the FE hatch and uproot once creep has spread.) Now this takes double that amount of time and makes defending timing pushes that much harder. Go watch Korean Zerg players
This will matter when you find me some good Korean T/P. (By the way, Korean Zergs are all playing the macro game anyway, I've seen plenty of Spine Crawler use.)
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On May 07 2010 07:21 zomgzergrush wrote:Show nested quote +The changes to Neural Parasite are there to try to protect the Ultralisk from being mind controlled too easily. Yes, because you see ULTRALISKS in bloody ZvZ!!!Seriously, what league/games are these guys looking at?
Yep...
This is exactly why people were afraid that Blizz may fail..
At least when they didn't have this situation report thing we didn't know what were they thinking..Now it becomes more clear that sometimes they have no clue..
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Probs to Blizzard for such explanations.
Really looking forward the upcoming Ultralisk changes.
I mean seriously this unit is or was til this patch ridiculous...
Marauders, Thors, Immortals, Sentries, Stalkers, Infestors all hardcounter an already hardly viable unit :o
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On May 07 2010 07:36 MidKnight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 07:21 zomgzergrush wrote:The changes to Neural Parasite are there to try to protect the Ultralisk from being mind controlled too easily. Yes, because you see ULTRALISKS in bloody ZvZ!!!Seriously, what league/games are these guys looking at? Yep... This is exactly why people were afraid that Blizz may fail.. At least when they didn't have this situation report thing we didn't know what were they thinking..Now it becomes more clear that sometimes they have no clue..
Don't you get it?
They did this change so you actually can play Ultralisks in ZvsZ now even though it's still ridiculous stupid to do so right now. Before however, it was out of question. I mean there's nothing easier than mindcontrolling a huge Ultralisk.
edit:
Sorry for double post, expected someone to post inbetween.
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10387 Posts
Looks like the Pheonix has the moving shot, Lalulush has success! Now if only they could implement that with Mutalisks and Banshees (speeding them up and decreasing power), that would just be sexy
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Just going to get all of this off my chest at once, and not mention it again, outside of the thread on the bnet forums.
Broodlords lose 50 hp, 1 armor
Infestors get a ridiculous nerf ("to try to protect the Ultralisk from being mind controlled too easily"): Neural Parasite is now an upgrade at the Infestation Pit, research costs 150/150 and 110 seconds, can now target Air units, energy cost increased from 50 to 100. Now has a research time AND an energy requirement increase, meaning it'll take a lot more forethought to NP an immortal or colossus. You can NP air now! So when 2 Void Rays come into your base, you can NP one and your Infestor can die to the other one in about 6 seconds. Not a viable defense against VR.
"At some levels of play we are seeing spine crawlers used to protect a Zerg player until he can advance to some dangerous technology (like Mutalisks). In these cases players are using Spine Crawlers almost exclusively to defend themselves and the ability to move the Crawler as a way to protect not only their base but their expansion as well." - Walling off is used in this exact same way by both Terran and Protoss. The idea that a few units can hold a choke via good positioning and micro is a key part of the early game as T and P. Zerg do not have this option, but just because they had AN option to hold off ground forces, it needs a nerf. T and P can wall-off and have the opportunity to tech to "some dangerous technology(like Banshees! or Void Rays!), but zerg?! Nooooooooo.
Ultralisks are getting buffed! Good luck getting into Hive tech with fewer, more expensive Neural Parasites and nerfed Spine Crawlers.
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More Ultralisk Buff!!!! 
Zerg needs more incentive than brood lords to upgrade to hive tech
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The Archon buff was actually pretty important. I tried playing with the archon a few patches ago and found its splash was effectively worthless for the expensive gas cost involved in getting HT -> Archon; however, with the minor increase in splash, you can now target a front line marine or marauder and hit 3-5 more MM per hit. Prior I found I was getting no splash at all except against zerglings. With the heavy shields, I believe these now have some good micro potential as candidates for support. Still expensive and not in my standard army but I'm warming up to them as being useful again.
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- We have also buffed the ability to allow it to target air units so you can use it as a defense against Void Rays.
When did one or two Void Rays normally arrive?
How long does it take now to get infestors with 100 Energie + NP upgrade?
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Yeah, I tried posting it earlier but a mod closed my thread... I don't know why...
Anyways, glad to see Blizzard in the discussion now.
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On May 07 2010 07:39 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 07:36 MidKnight wrote:On May 07 2010 07:21 zomgzergrush wrote:The changes to Neural Parasite are there to try to protect the Ultralisk from being mind controlled too easily. Yes, because you see ULTRALISKS in bloody ZvZ!!!Seriously, what league/games are these guys looking at? Yep... This is exactly why people were afraid that Blizz may fail.. At least when they didn't have this situation report thing we didn't know what were they thinking..Now it becomes more clear that sometimes they have no clue.. Don't you get it? They did this change so you actually can play Ultralisks in ZvsZ now even though it's still ridiculous stupid to do so right now. Before however, it was out of question. I mean there's nothing easier than mindcontrolling a huge Ultralisk. edit: Sorry for double post, expected someone to post inbetween.
And how different would MC'ing an ultra would be compared to Thor/BC/Mothership?
My main point was that their reasoning for nerfing Neural Parasite was because of Ultralisk.
Which is like the most irrelevant thing ever, hence my post
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EPT
