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On May 08 2010 01:51 HeyheyLBJ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2010 01:46 Ghostcom wrote:On May 08 2010 01:39 Lollersauce wrote:
Pretty much what therapist said. ZvP is just stupidly pigeonholed now.
Best part is 12 seconds to reposition spores/spines. One less reason to build them now against early harass and particularly air. Everyone elses defence is actually static, that you can move it at all is just a big bonus. If it had been 12 seconds always you would be thinking "sweet, sunkes that can actually move?! - Sure I have to make sure I'll have to distract my enemy whilst they root, but now I don't have to morph in sunkens everywhere but can simply move these around". Everyone else's defense has longer range and costs less.
can you seriously stop being so blindly biased for 1/2 a second?
spine crawler =100+drone=150
photon cannon=150
Spore=75+drone=125
Missile turret=100+mining time
Photon cannon=150
spine crawlers and spore crawlers BOTH have a range of 7
Photon cannons have a range of, guess what, 7
Missile turret starting range is, oh my god, 7
you might want to do a little research or play one of the other races before making a bullshit post like that.
On May 08 2010 01:56 Gnaix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2010 01:46 Ghostcom wrote:On May 08 2010 01:39 Lollersauce wrote:
Pretty much what therapist said. ZvP is just stupidly pigeonholed now.
Best part is 12 seconds to reposition spores/spines. One less reason to build them now against early harass and particularly air. Everyone elses defence is actually static, that you can move it at all is just a big bonus. If it had been 12 seconds always you would be thinking "sweet, sunkes that can actually move?! - Sure I have to make sure I'll have to distract my enemy whilst they root, but now I don't have to morph in sunkens everywhere but can simply move these around". Everyone elses defence doesn't cost a drone to build.
yeah because its more expensive to build the other defenses, ever thought of that? blizz took into account the cost of a drone.
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On May 08 2010 02:32 Chen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2010 01:51 HeyheyLBJ wrote:On May 08 2010 01:46 Ghostcom wrote:On May 08 2010 01:39 Lollersauce wrote:
Pretty much what therapist said. ZvP is just stupidly pigeonholed now.
Best part is 12 seconds to reposition spores/spines. One less reason to build them now against early harass and particularly air. Everyone elses defence is actually static, that you can move it at all is just a big bonus. If it had been 12 seconds always you would be thinking "sweet, sunkes that can actually move?! - Sure I have to make sure I'll have to distract my enemy whilst they root, but now I don't have to morph in sunkens everywhere but can simply move these around". Everyone else's defense has longer range and costs less. can you seriously stop being so blindly biased for 1/2 a second? spine crawler =100+drone=150 photon cannon=150 Spore=75+drone=125 Missile turret=100+mining time Photon cannon=150 spine crawlers and spore crawlers BOTH have a range of 7Photon cannons have a range of, guess what, 7Missile turret starting range is, oh my god, 7you might want to do a little research or play one of the other races before making a bullshit post like that. Show nested quote +On May 08 2010 01:56 Gnaix wrote:On May 08 2010 01:46 Ghostcom wrote:On May 08 2010 01:39 Lollersauce wrote:
Pretty much what therapist said. ZvP is just stupidly pigeonholed now.
Best part is 12 seconds to reposition spores/spines. One less reason to build them now against early harass and particularly air. Everyone elses defence is actually static, that you can move it at all is just a big bonus. If it had been 12 seconds always you would be thinking "sweet, sunkes that can actually move?! - Sure I have to make sure I'll have to distract my enemy whilst they root, but now I don't have to morph in sunkens everywhere but can simply move these around". Everyone elses defence doesn't cost a drone to build. yeah because its more expensive to build the other defenses, ever thought of that? blizz took into account the cost of a drone.
A drone does not equal 50 minerals lost.
A photon cannon shoots both air and ground and has higher dps.
A turret can be upgraded to have longer range, and has higher dps than spores.
Both builds faster and are cheaper.
Have you even tried to defend against void rays or banshees with spores? It's almost impossible at it is, now it will be just that: Impossible.
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give the ultralisk an ability to temporary reduce range damage so they can get in the fight or give us the lurker. the immortal and the colossus don't have such a problem because they are the backbone of the toss army with lots of range. hydras also have a limited window of opportunity as far as their usefulness goes due to the colossus and templars. if i could turn them into heavy hitters tier 3 i wont feel like i wasted a ton on gas tier2 for a pile of ash. 12 second spore/spine crawlers is way too slow. force field should need to be researched. mauraders shouldn't get stim-pack. the phoenix moves way to fast. the attack move i dont mind but their move speed is abusive to overlords. queens should be able to do more dmg vs air or make hydras 1.5 and roaches tier 2 or make spore burrow faster. this is prolly very biased.
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On May 08 2010 02:09 mav451 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2010 01:58 Powda wrote:On May 08 2010 01:54 Slayer91 wrote:On May 08 2010 01:52 Powda wrote:
As a Random player, this patch just feels really anti zerg.
Almost every change had a negative effect on Zerg. AS a random/zerg player I feel this is a huge buff to zerg. Sentries nerfed, thors nerfed, colossus huge nerf vs lings. The only things you got nerfed were things that were abused like broodlords, and neutral paraisite. I used neutral parasite some but i believe in having more units instead of relying on cute spells to win. You have to be kidding. Thors got buffed against mutas, hellions got buffed in both speed and range. Thor/hellion was the number 1 strat, platinum level, vs zerg. Phoenix was already difficult to deal with when mixed with VR and a player who abuses the fact the VR doesn't reset on target change. Now I can easily cite 10 times the amount of mutas vs Phoenix around the map. Parasite takes longer to get than a it takes a toss to have a VR in your base, which makes no sense as blizzard claims this was to help against VR rushes... Corruptors got a nice speed boost, but corruption was an extremely nice spell. As for your "cute spells to win" spin.....Spells are and always have been a HUGE part of starcraft, I just have no other comment for that. I don't see anything in the notes about hellion speed (I'm assuming movement speed). The Thors GTA dmg stayed the same (8+4 to 6+6 = still 12 dmg to light)...
Right, but the splash change to center on the unit is what made the difference. Thor's decimate mutas now.
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On May 07 2010 21:45 Arbiter[frolix] wrote:
In the previous patch they extended the immortal build time. In the latest patch they have reduced sentry damage. And now, somewhat unsurprisingly really, I am encountering in my games against zerg post patch 11 a lot of the previously abandoned roach rushing, often accompanied by a single gas steal to limit protoss gas collection.
So far, my experience has not been good. I am going to have to find some kind of readjustment to my early play against zerg.
Immortal builds can do well off of just 1 Gas, so I'd consider that a boon that he's wasting minerals on me.
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On May 08 2010 02:43 gankthoven wrote:
give the ultralisk an ability to temporary reduce range damage so they can get in the fight
this. Some kind of a meat shield equivalent to protoss shields that lets him live till he enters the battle
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On May 07 2010 05:40 Nilaus wrote:
Interesting patch to say the least.
I think we are going to see a lot of Stargate plays from Protoss. Phoenix buffed and Void Ray as powerful as ever. I am a bit puzzled on how Terran is supposed to counter that. Void Rays were hard enough and now we can add Phoenixes to the mix. I guess Marine + Ghost will be necessary, though it seems rather vulnerable to sniping Ghosts.
Will be fun to play and learn the subtle consequences of the changes.
oh my god, terrans might actually have to build marines???? instead of marauders?????????????????????????????????? 
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phoenix isn't 'that' bad though.. air superiority but they still can't really do much against ground if you have static defense.
in that video we see 3 phoenix vs 2 mutas, and the 2 mutas are almost able to kill one of the phoenix.... not so bad considering phoenix were intended to counter mutas in the first place.
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On May 08 2010 04:03 hoovehand wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 05:40 Nilaus wrote:
Interesting patch to say the least.
I think we are going to see a lot of Stargate plays from Protoss. Phoenix buffed and Void Ray as powerful as ever. I am a bit puzzled on how Terran is supposed to counter that. Void Rays were hard enough and now we can add Phoenixes to the mix. I guess Marine + Ghost will be necessary, though it seems rather vulnerable to sniping Ghosts.
Will be fun to play and learn the subtle consequences of the changes. oh my god, terrans might actually have to build marines???? instead of marauders??????????????????????????????????
Quick increase marine build time by 25% again. I hate it when terran players make marines.
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i hope they make emp and storm cost 100 and increase their radius
feels ridiculous how many ghosts and hts running around with infinite spells xd
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A drone does not equal 50 minerals lost.
A photon cannon shoots both air and ground and has higher dps.
A turret can be upgraded to have longer range, and has higher dps than spores.
Both builds faster and are cheaper.
Have you even tried to defend against void rays or banshees with spores? It's almost impossible at it is, now it will be just that: Impossible.
I think the thing you're missing is a turrent or a photon cannon can't get up and walk to the middle of the map.
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THOR got a big nerf for its AA capabilities :\
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On May 08 2010 04:13 Dragonsven wrote:Show nested quote +
A drone does not equal 50 minerals lost.
A photon cannon shoots both air and ground and has higher dps.
A turret can be upgraded to have longer range, and has higher dps than spores.
Both builds faster and are cheaper.
Have you even tried to defend against void rays or banshees with spores? It's almost impossible at it is, now it will be just that: Impossible.
I think the thing you're missing is a turrent or a photon cannon can't get up and walk to the middle of the map.
...
...
This is what we were discussing in the first place.
Please shut the fuck up in the future.
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I like a lot of the changes, but did the hellion really need a friggin' BUFF?!?!
I feel like the thor 250 mm cannons were overnerfed.
Same with the infestor ability (might have needed a nerf but a 150/150 tech cost and double energy req is quite steep).
Personally I've always wanted spine crawlers to get a build time buff but now they are getting a root nerf. Build time buff so you can actually start building them 10 seconds before they push out and they'll finish in time, atm you have to build them RIDICULOUSLY early.
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watched that new phoenix movie a few more times.... it doesn't look so bad, it significantly alters the PvZ mu's but you can still use muta to pressure. being able to mass muta and then walk over the protoss was pretty boring...
a protoss that spams phoenix is pretty vulnerable against zerglings.
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On May 08 2010 02:37 HeyheyLBJ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2010 02:32 Chen wrote:On May 08 2010 01:51 HeyheyLBJ wrote:On May 08 2010 01:46 Ghostcom wrote:On May 08 2010 01:39 Lollersauce wrote:
Pretty much what therapist said. ZvP is just stupidly pigeonholed now.
Best part is 12 seconds to reposition spores/spines. One less reason to build them now against early harass and particularly air. Everyone elses defence is actually static, that you can move it at all is just a big bonus. If it had been 12 seconds always you would be thinking "sweet, sunkes that can actually move?! - Sure I have to make sure I'll have to distract my enemy whilst they root, but now I don't have to morph in sunkens everywhere but can simply move these around". Everyone else's defense has longer range and costs less. can you seriously stop being so blindly biased for 1/2 a second? spine crawler =100+drone=150 photon cannon=150 Spore=75+drone=125 Missile turret=100+mining time Photon cannon=150 spine crawlers and spore crawlers BOTH have a range of 7Photon cannons have a range of, guess what, 7Missile turret starting range is, oh my god, 7you might want to do a little research or play one of the other races before making a bullshit post like that. On May 08 2010 01:56 Gnaix wrote:On May 08 2010 01:46 Ghostcom wrote:On May 08 2010 01:39 Lollersauce wrote:
Pretty much what therapist said. ZvP is just stupidly pigeonholed now.
Best part is 12 seconds to reposition spores/spines. One less reason to build them now against early harass and particularly air. Everyone elses defence is actually static, that you can move it at all is just a big bonus. If it had been 12 seconds always you would be thinking "sweet, sunkes that can actually move?! - Sure I have to make sure I'll have to distract my enemy whilst they root, but now I don't have to morph in sunkens everywhere but can simply move these around". Everyone elses defence doesn't cost a drone to build. yeah because its more expensive to build the other defenses, ever thought of that? blizz took into account the cost of a drone. A drone does not equal 50 minerals lost. A photon cannon shoots both air and ground and has higher dps.A turret can be upgraded to have longer range, and has higher dps than spores. Both builds faster and are cheaper.Have you even tried to defend against void rays or banshees with spores? It's almost impossible at it is, now it will be just that: Impossible.
True a drone doesn't equal 50 minerals lost, but then again, zerg has the option of getting drones much faster than other races can get their workers, hence I would be surprised if there was a substantial difference in the long run.
Photon canons take 40 seconds, spore crawlers take 30!!!!!!! whilst spine crawlers take 50.
The spore crawler also happens to do more DPS than a photon canon, but granted less than a turret.
You also leave out of the equation that:
A) spine crawlers get +dmg to armored
B) both spines and spores are biological (which is actually pretty huge)
C) both spines and spores got armor 2
Zerg also happens to have a queen which is a VERY good anti-air unit early game.
And yes I have tried to defend with spores, and if you think that something like rooting time will make defending harder you got a horrible sim-city.
The reason for rooting to be nerfed was probably due to people who would spam spines and then as their creeptumors spread they would do a slow push towards the enemy base, together with the army. For defensive purposes it doesn't matter as long as you do a proper sim city.
Would you stop posting BS anytime soon?
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Now, I don't want to alarm anyone or anything, but this seemed odd:
Dear Amazon.com Customer,
The Amazon Video Games team thanks you for your pre-order of StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty. Now it's time to get you your pre-order bonus code to participate in the Starcraft II beta.
This code will give you access to the StarCraft II beta. This beta will be available through May 17th.
Now, does that mean the Beta is ending on May 17th, the Beta Key is only valid if you input it before May 17th, pre-order customers get kicked out of the Beta on May 17th and rest of us stay in, or Amazon.com is just spouting gibberish?
Seems rather abrupt given the big wad of changes we just received.
Edit: Gamestop emails apparently say 05/31 for the same thing, so its probably just an expiration of the key itself.
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It's definatly an expiration of the key - they haven't finished tweaking the ultralisk as they pointed out themselves in their explanation of patch 11.
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So anyone using ultra's now?
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"And no, it does not mean that mutas are useless now vs phoenix, one infestor with fungal growth and all that "insane kiting" goes out the window. Corruptor range is also 2 greater than that of the phoenix and counts as armoured, but god forbid zerg players would have to use their dedicated air-air unit to gain air superiority against another dedicated air-air unit. All this does is force players to get a more diverse army, rather than mass muta and own the skies vs protoss."
I agree with this. Honestly, I think zerg players are abit spoiled when it came to mutalisk. Granted, I'm not a pro, I placed Gold Leauge (which means my opinion probably holds no weight, but I will state it regardless), but Protoss really had a tough time countering muta harass. The pheonix just wan't cutting it as an air superiority unit. It was difficult to do any timing pushes against mass muta because the second you tried to do any push with sentries/stalkers/zealots the muta would harass your economy line, forcing you to pull back. Every game I played against zerg was becoming like that, I either had to go all in and try and blow out his base while he demolished mine with muta or I had to play very defensely and bounce back between expands and mains to fend off muta harass - all the meanwhile zerg is massing expands and lots of roaches/hydra/lings to supplement the mutas.
I believe dedicated zerg players just became accustomed to owning the skies against protoss that they actually think it was working as intended, when clearly the protoss are suppose to have some decent air units (they did in BW, the corsair was mighty)
I think the changes to the Pheonix are in-line. It gives the protoss a counter to muta harass early in the game. If I remember correctly, the original intentions of the Pheonix was suppose to be a hard counter vs the muta (remember the spell they had in the alpha footage?) I think blizzard is slowly coming around to making the Pheonix what they really wanted to make it: a superior air-to-air unit.
I see alot of people asking about hidden changes, here are some:
Dark Templars movement speed increased
Motherships movement speed increased (when it reaches full acceleration)
Carriers movement speed increased (when reaching full acceleration)
Ultralist movement speed increased (on and off creep)
Pheonix can move while casting spells as well (instead of complete stop)
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EPT
