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hi there TL..
this is my first post here (even though i frequently visited tl for about 3 years now) and i dont really want to whine about races and balance and stuff but i have some issues considering zergplay in sc2, and i want to know other opinions on it.
its not exactly that i think zerg is underpowered in any way, its just that i dont really feel like i have much choices on how to play zerg in sc2. i mean there are several new units in sc2, and they all kinda changed the playing style of each of the races and creating a lot of ways to deal with your enemy. except for zerg. i mean i often feel like there isnt much to do with zerg except building up eco, massing up units, and either mass drop or simpy overrun my enemy. dunno, its just,.. i dont now.. boring? i loved playing zerg in sc1, i loved beeing sneaky with lurkers, or like completely changing the flow of a game with single units like defilers... and somehow i feel robbed of that things in sc2.
all other races have, at least in my opinion and especially in the early game, a lot more choices on how to harass the enemy. each race has invisible units, or units that can jump/walk over cliffs, rocks obstacles whatever which gives you quite some possibilities of harrasing or sneaking around the front of your enemy without dropping. zerg has none of those (at least until u get mutas/drop). i mean yea, there are the roaches,and yea, they can burrow which makes them invisible and yea they do regenerate fast as hell (even nerfed) while burrowed. but they cant dig their way through rocks/buildings/cliffs (why btw? doesnt seem really logic to me at least for rocks/buildings..  ) and more importantly cant even attack while beein invisible.
which brings me to another point... despite having strong air units i feel like zerg is incredibly worse off against invisible and air units early in the game compared to BW.. its not that hard to kill off an overseer (as it really wasnt a problem to target an overlord in sc1) but now they cost a shitload of ressources (at least if u have to frequently morph new ones) and have a lot more building time. same goes for air. zerg needs soooo much time to get out a decent number of hydras/muta/corruptors early in the game. i mean i lost at least 20 games just by a hidden starport and two or three voidrays coming early and mutilating my queens/tech/units without much effort. same goes for early viking/banshee harassment. 1 dt and no detection.. u lose... or at least are in BIG trouble. same with air/antiair.
anyway.. i didnt want to whine and i kinda got off my original topic. most of my complaints is probably anyway due to my bad micro/macro/scouting. 
lets get back to my point.. does anyone else feel like there are less choices on how to play zerg/harass your enemy with zerg in sc2 compared to sc1? or is it just me? and that zerg comes kinda short in variations of playing? (i repeat my self.. mass up units, overrun your enemy)
Or like kind of lack of game changing/ending units. i mean the new units are fun, but cant really do anything special to harass/annoy your enemy. a good example is the sentry.. i mean the hell? one or two of those can defend a ramp FOR AGES without having trouble and to ANY amount of groundunits early in the game. wtf can the new zerg units do?
and i dont really feel like there are many new units for zerg anyway. names changed, and some abilities did, but they dont really have new features that change the way of playing zerg much. i mean yea, there is the queen. i love the queen. but all the others..?
considering the usage of units in sc2 compared to sc1 and not considering much else:
zerglings - same.
hydra - higher in tech tree, stronger, but the usage is the same
roach - an armored, ground only hydra + regen/burrowed movement. but still.. what can u do with em? some nice burrow micro, yea... but the concept stays the same: mass up, overrun.. yawn.
banelings - considering the ways of usage they are the only really new unit for me. splashes, looks funny, does tons of damage and omg they suicide.. how i love them. kinda expensive though considering they only hit once and still not exactly new cuz of BWs infested terrans.. but well,, how often did u have a chance to get em in BW..
muta - same usage.
corruptor - very strong, but same usage as the good old devourer, except for the lack of scourges in sc2 and therefore the more need to build em
broodlords - insanely strong, the facelifted guardian.. way cooler looking but nothing really new in terms of usage.
infestor - the new caster unit.. fungal growth is fun, but considering the usage its nothing more than a good old plague. other casts are more or less useful in some situations. still the infestor has NOT that much of a game changing ability as the defiler. nowhere near.
ultra - more damage, more splash more ULTRA, but still nothing new in terms of usage. (and i'm not even going to talkabout it being relatively useless due to its "problems" to reach the target plus all those nice anti armor units of which pretty much rape the hell outta the ultras.)
well, and the other races have, like, a LOT more..?:
planetary fortress, marauders, reapers, the new ghost, vikings, thor etc...
sentry,colossus, immortal,blinking stalkers, shield, forcefield, warpgate tech, mothership etc...
to sum it up.. it feels to me that zerg comes kinda short in new abilities and/or different variations on how to play the race compared to toss and terran. i dont really feel like switching the race cuz i like zerg, but its still kinda boring to mass up a different unit composition and overrun my enemy right through the front door every single game. less sneak potential, less special abilities, no way to enter an enemy base except for an attack to the front(until u get air/drop) etc etc.. its kinda like BW stripped of lurkers/defilers, which where soooo important for different variations/styles in the gameplay. it feels like every race gained many new useful abilities, and zerg somehow lost more useful stuff than it gained. am i the only one who feels that way, or is it that im just not creative enough or simply a bad player. (which i definitly am.)
Opinions welcome!
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seems like they remove the aspects of what you like from zerg and keep the ones you really don't find good XD, bad luck man...
Naaa on topic, Browder said they will be working on zerg cause many ppl complain about the same as you are, they taking a look at zerg and may change it soon.
Nice first post welcome to TL.NET
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I actually like zerg more and more... the creep management is fantastic and provides a lot of cool tactical decisions. Infestors are crucial for my ZvT and ZvP matchups, I think fungal growth is far more powerful than people realise. Corruptors are underused in my play compared to viking and phoenix. However, the only reason I tech to hive is if I want to have broodlords. Ling/banes/roach/hydra/muta/infestor and creep/queen management is fun but could be spiced up with something additional on Hive tech.
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It's been said quite a bit already that Zerg is very limited in terms of playstyle options.
Zerg has been my favorite race for quite a while now back in SC1 and yeah, it just doesn't have the same versatility. Of course you can tech switch fast and build a lot of another unit, but like you said nothing remotely as cool as the lurker when it comes to promoting different playstyles.
I just hope they either add a unit or seriously rework one or more of infestors, roaches and maybe ultras.
And as someone pointed out, Hive tech is underwhelming except for broodlords which requires the greater spire taking about a year to upgrade.
Actually that's probably my biggest gripe with the Zerg right now, I never really want to get Hive unless I've already more or less won. Or outexpanded my opponent quite a bit.
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Where did you hear that browder was fixing to change zerg, checo? I have been following things pretty closely and I've heard nothing of the sort. If anything they seem to be pretty set on just tweaking stats at this point. A new unit, or even the inclusion of lurker, would surprise me greatly.
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totally agree with #1
i am afraid blizzard will wait for the first expansion to give zerg some new units...
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I don't want to wait for a expansion, how about we add new units for zerg now. They say they couldn't get people to use lurkers, I find that hard to believe.
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so it seems its not only me.. -.-
i dont know.. "mass up and overwhelm your foe" every single game is kind of boring.
maybe i should betray the swarm and switch races for a while.. :D
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I agree with OP. I am zerg player, but picking up new race cuz zerg is so boring. Part of the reason is that zerg has much less units than other races.
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Very nice first post! Being a rank 1-3 zerg Gold Player on the US server I agree with pretty much everything you said in the OP. There are many options that blizzard has to "spice up" zerg. Something I was thinking about that might be useful is making hydras be able to morph into lurkers at hive tech (no upgrade cause that would be too late of the game). This would obviously put lurkers back into play in starcraft and make hive tech more viable and less situational.
Edit: btw, have some confidence man you seem to put yourself down, naming the post n00b zerg blah blah... and calling yourself a bad player and such. What rank are you? If you are silver or lower I can help ya out with zerg if you are sersious and passionate about the game of sc2. If you are gold or plat I'm definately not qualified to train you. =P
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On April 19 2010 04:50 wbz0rn wrote:
i dont know.. "mass up and overwhelm your foe" every single game is kind of boring.
You mean what most see as the defining characteristic of zerg is boring? The word "zerg" has entered modern gaming slang to describe this very thing.
It sounds like you shouldn't play zerg :/
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On April 19 2010 05:00 feather6 wrote:
You mean what most see as the defining characteristic of zerg is boring? The word "zerg" has entered modern gaming slang to describe this very thing.
It sounds like you shouldn't play zerg :/
its not like i have a problem with mass+overpower. i just would have loved to have like more choices than one, like every other race? =)
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zerg is really the race in sc2 where massing one unit usually never works well at all.
also nice sig lmao
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On April 19 2010 05:00 feather6 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 04:50 wbz0rn wrote:
i dont know.. "mass up and overwhelm your foe" every single game is kind of boring.
You mean what most see as the defining characteristic of zerg is boring? The word "zerg" has entered modern gaming slang to describe this very thing. It sounds like you shouldn't play zerg :/
Loltroll. Nobody's saying zerg shouldn't zerg. What people are saying here is they should have some options that make them a little less one-dimensional.
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On April 19 2010 05:00 feather6 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 04:50 wbz0rn wrote:
i dont know.. "mass up and overwhelm your foe" every single game is kind of boring.
You mean what most see as the defining characteristic of zerg is boring? The word "zerg" has entered modern gaming slang to describe this very thing. It sounds like you shouldn't play zerg :/
Disagree.
The ability to mass produce later on is great, but the other races aren't that far behind, if at all.
Money is generally the limiting resource, and sometimes larvae.
Zerg should be a dynamic and adaptable race - it is to an extent with larvae but the unit choices they have are not exactly the most exciting. The marauder, reaper and ghost are all very unique units and they are all tier 1. Stalkers can blink and sentries have some "sick" (read: op) abilities. Compare this to the roach and the baneling (they are sweet, dont get me wrong).
The hydra is awesome but as a tier 2 unit... it fits the same role as the marine and the stalker sentry already so zerg is playing catchup. Mutas are effective at harass, but do they compare to cloaked banshees? Corruptors have their use but I'd rather have vikings and broodlords are sweet.
But what compares to the HT, the Raven? The siege tank and colossus? The races should be different but they should all have dynamic/situational tools.
So basically, diversify zerg with a new unit and a new caster and buff the shit out of the infestor (plague does 300 damage over a larger area, fungal does 36 in a game where damage is much higher). Revamp protoss air as well because thats a steaming pile too.
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I agree with OP.
I'm thinking of either going back to terran or switching to protoss after the patch if it doesn't do anything to help zerg's playstyle diversity.
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Agreed, I mean, I don't have the beta yet (sadly) so I'm not speaking through first hand experience. But I have always loved the zerg, something about them has always just been fun with me. And as much as I can't wait to get my hands on the new stuff, I definitely am going to miss my lurkers and overlords with detection.
Do ya'll suppose they made the detection for overlords a higher tech because it seemed unbalanced from BW? The only way I could see that would be because every other race has to tech up for any type of detection unit/structure. And I gotta ask, can anyone tell me what the use of the changelings are? I haven't seen anyone use them competitively yet so I'm a little curious
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muta - stronger, but same usage.
lolwut? in what ways are they stronger?
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On April 19 2010 05:26 Jack_Acer75 wrote:And I gotta ask, can anyone tell me what the use of the changelings are? I haven't seen anyone use them competitively yet so I'm a little curious
overseers can produce em infinitly for energy and they are used to scout. they change their form to either marine/berserker/ling (first enemy race to contact with) and u can hide em among enemy units to scout their army movement(via "track movement" of certain enemy unit) or the base.
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I agree with wbz0rn that Zerg feels somewhat limiting and boring. This has nothing to do with balance; there just don't seem to be as many new and interesting options for zerg. Infestors are a lot of fun with neural parasite and fungal growth, but other than that, everything feels about the same as sc:bw with the queen management added in. Hopefully lurkers will be added in an expansion pack.
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