Of course this sounds like an obvious combo... use force fields from sentries to pin enemy units against walls or structures, then lay down a couple of storms to thin them out... but rarely do you ever see it executed quite right... check out this play from orb that just happened a couple of hours ago. =P
For additional discussion, what other sick combos have you seen or enjoyed a lot? Vortex+Nuke of course is a fun one, and I've yet to see Vortex + banelings used but it sounds like it's good for some laughs.
On March 27 2010 07:23 Marradron wrote: I dont feel the storms were necisary. the banelings were all blowing up against the 2 zealots in the fields anyway
Necessary or not... it's all a templar can do against pretty much any zerg unit that was there, so why not do it?
On March 27 2010 07:51 The6357 wrote: does he cast forcefield while holding shift key? or if u select bunch of sentries and spamm force field they cast it one by one?
It's called smartcasting, you can select like 50 zealots and 10 high templar in one group and it will still only storm 1 at a time.
The force fields did aboslutely nothing there. If he had just stormed when they were grouped up, which they were VERY tightly together when he started casting the FFs, he would of gotten the same amount, if not more kills, since the zerg player had time enough to react and get some of the banelings out before the storm, which he wouldn't of been able to react to if the storm just went off on his group.
Instead, what i'd like to see is someone chain force field a group of expensive units, like ultras or something, and then nuke them with a terran partner in 2v2!
On March 27 2010 07:57 On_Slaught wrote: The force fields did aboslutely nothing there. If he had just stormed when they were grouped up, which they were VERY tightly together when he started casting the FFs, he would of gotten the same amount, if not more kills, since the zerg player had time enough to react and get some of the banelings out before the storm, which he wouldn't of been able to react to if the storm just went off on his group.
Instead, what i'd like to see is someone chain force field a group of expensive units, like ultras or something, and then nuke them with a terran partner in 2v2!
Agreed. Force field + Storms is definitely an interesting combo, but this replay didnt convince me Force field was even necessary in the first place.
On March 27 2010 07:57 On_Slaught wrote: The force fields did aboslutely nothing there. If he had just stormed when they were grouped up, which they were VERY tightly together when he started casting the FFs, he would of gotten the same amount, if not more kills, since the zerg player had time enough to react and get some of the banelings out before the storm, which he wouldn't of been able to react to if the storm just went off on his group.
Instead, what i'd like to see is someone chain force field a group of expensive units, like ultras or something, and then nuke them with a terran partner in 2v2!
Agreed. Force field + Storms is definitely an interesting combo, but this replay didnt convince me Force field was even necessary in the first place.
Well I don't have a video to show to prove anything but in the past i've done similar storms and usually zergs will dodge the storms and the units will not die.
Also, you saw the baneling at the end roll up and blow up two sentries at once. The front line of FF's was definitely necessary to keep from losing his entire army. Thus, funneling them out the back and trapping them was still a smart move.
without those sunkens, the force fields would have been useless yo. What i like to do when i'm up against banelingz and shit is to use stalkers and drop force fields in front of them, and use templars as backup.
On March 27 2010 07:57 On_Slaught wrote: The force fields did aboslutely nothing there. If he had just stormed when they were grouped up, which they were VERY tightly together when he started casting the FFs, he would of gotten the same amount, if not more kills, since the zerg player had time enough to react and get some of the banelings out before the storm, which he wouldn't of been able to react to if the storm just went off on his group.
Instead, what i'd like to see is someone chain force field a group of expensive units, like ultras or something, and then nuke them with a terran partner in 2v2!
Uh, if he didn't cast the front force fields, he wouldn't have had an army, much less any temps.
Or was this a joke?
(just in case it isn't, the zerg player clearly moved his ball of death to attack, and then got stopped by forcefields. I mean, there was even a small crack and a few got through the front. There's no way they would have sat there and got stormed, they were already moving towards his army!)
On March 27 2010 11:27 SunDown wrote: As neat as that was, it was still a 1700 gas army vs a <400 gas army.
Am I mistaken in remembering there were 4 mutalisks there in the fight? Wouldn't this be 400 gas not even counting the mass of banelings and the couple roaches there?
On March 27 2010 10:25 JoshSuth wrote: That's basically what he did, except had more sentries instead of stalkers. I love how people find something to complain about every single time. =P
Don't let it get to you....thanks for posting! I thought it was a very nice play.
On March 27 2010 07:57 On_Slaught wrote: The force fields did aboslutely nothing there. If he had just stormed when they were grouped up, which they were VERY tightly together when he started casting the FFs, he would of gotten the same amount, if not more kills, since the zerg player had time enough to react and get some of the banelings out before the storm, which he wouldn't of been able to react to if the storm just went off on his group.
Instead, what i'd like to see is someone chain force field a group of expensive units, like ultras or something, and then nuke them with a terran partner in 2v2!
Uh, if he didn't cast the front force fields, he wouldn't have had an army, much less any temps.
Or was this a joke?
(just in case it isn't, the zerg player clearly moved his ball of death to attack, and then got stopped by forcefields. I mean, there was even a small crack and a few got through the front. There's no way they would have sat there and got stormed, they were already moving towards his army!)
My point is THIS video isn't a good example since the banelings were being wasted on the zealots and the pressence of those spine crawlers actually acted as a choke in favor of the toss. There are some situations where this might work, but you saw how little area was actually encased by the shields, even WITH the help of the spine crawlers, and that was a puny zerg army (massively outdone as far as expense and tech goes by the toss army) and it was basically only 1.5 storm size of space.
Having said that, even if you don't use the FFs to surround the enemy, as shown they are still very useful for stalling banelings that are running at your armor.
Oh, and to the above poster, I didn't see any roaches in there, just the 4 mutalisks.
i think orb did a great job in containing zerg. the banelings looked like they did have the speed upgrade and thus woulda have been able to escape the psi storm. nice usage of force fields.
Yeah forcefield is awesome. It's my favorite ability in the game. I've done this as well just against T. In PvZ it's also incredibly awesome to forcefield trap ultras (and it's easy too because they're so huge) and have your army just pummel at them.
yeah, im pretty sure either forcefield will cost more energy in the near future or sentries will cost more minerals. my guess is sentries costing 75/100.
On March 27 2010 11:38 VX14 wrote: yeah, im pretty sure either forcefield will cost more energy in the near future or sentries will cost more minerals. my guess is sentries costing 75/100.
No.
It is amazing how people see something done one time or by a good player and then suddenly claim imba or to change something just lol.
anyways cool vid and good forcefields. Seemed like the guy was done at that point anyways tho.
On March 27 2010 11:38 VX14 wrote: yeah, im pretty sure either forcefield will cost more energy in the near future or sentries will cost more minerals. my guess is sentries costing 75/100.
No.
It is amazing how people see something done one time or by a good player and then suddenly claim imba or to change something just lol.
anyways cool vid and good forcefields. Seemed like the guy was done at that point anyways tho.
im not saying this just because of the video. im saying this because no matter what protoss always gets sentries. sentries are great because if you have too much gas building up you can just add in a few sentries at very little mineral cost and they are great against any army composition. force field is used in almost any situation. guardian shield is at least a little useful in most. overall sentries seem like they are just being overused, and thus they need a nerf.
I'm not going to get into any of the lame arguments just got to say congrats to Orb. Considering my name you can tell I'm a fan of good play...perhaps not a contributer though lol...pretty sure you destroyed me early on before the wipe. As a zerg player the only losses I consitently have against protoss are when FF is effectively used. I had to learn to engage and run back immediately to avoid ownage until energy was used up. If you can surround thats a good tactic too but many of the current maps are tough to do that on due to the landscape.
On March 27 2010 11:38 VX14 wrote: yeah, im pretty sure either forcefield will cost more energy in the near future or sentries will cost more minerals. my guess is sentries costing 75/100.
No.
It is amazing how people see something done one time or by a good player and then suddenly claim imba or to change something just lol.
anyways cool vid and good forcefields. Seemed like the guy was done at that point anyways tho.
im not saying this just because of the video. im saying this because no matter what protoss always gets sentries. sentries are great because if you have too much gas building up you can just add in a few sentries at very little mineral cost and they are great against any army composition. force field is used in almost any situation. guardian shield is at least a little useful in most. overall sentries seem like they are just being overused, and thus they need a nerf.
Spellcasters being used a lot is not new to Starcraft II. It's true in Warcraft III and Starcraft as well.
Abilities were always "overpowered" and "imbalanced" in Starcraft 1 because of how effective they tend to be. Likewise, Terrans have EMP and HSM, Zerg have Fungal Growth and Neural Parasite, so each race has useful spellcaster units.
Every race has its staple units that are important for a particular match up, as well. Do you think Marauders and Roaches need to be nerfed as well, just because players tend to enjoy using those units in many games?
It was a good example of SC2 being like BW. He ensured victory in that battle by his nice FF surround + Storm, i.e. his micro was rewarded. If the battle comes out more evenly, the game continues. This in turn makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside about the chances of the game being good.
kinda overkill on the force fields in the back to make a circle but it looked cool. (storm does 20dps and blings have 30 hp), he coulda just threw up the initial blocks and blanketed the storms behind that ftw.
On March 27 2010 07:23 Marradron wrote: I dont feel the storms were necisary. the banelings were all blowing up against the 2 zealots in the fields anyway
Wrong. Banelings don't even work that way. Watch it again and get your eyes checked.
On March 27 2010 07:57 On_Slaught wrote: The force fields did aboslutely nothing there. If he had just stormed when they were grouped up, which they were VERY tightly together when he started casting the FFs, he would of gotten the same amount, if not more kills, since the zerg player had time enough to react and get some of the banelings out before the storm, which he wouldn't of been able to react to if the storm just went off on his group.
Instead, what i'd like to see is someone chain force field a group of expensive units, like ultras or something, and then nuke them with a terran partner in 2v2!
Well then the zerg army would have gotten through and at the very least do enough damage to a chance to rebuild some armies and possibly hold off orb. Orb ensured his victory with the force field. He might not have won there if he didn't do it. Enough might of snuck through and hurt his army.
I think a better method would be to wait until they start charging at you (creating a semi-line of Banelings), and create Forcefields at the choke (which spreads out the line into more of a square) and simultaneously throw down a couple Storms.
If that's not micro/APM intensive, I don't know what is (Yes, even with Smart Cast)
You use less energy, and the Blings die in 3 or 4 ticks anyway, so at the most only a few would be able to escape. If they return, just have Stalkers fire like...once...at them :D
On March 27 2010 12:00 avilo wrote: It is amazing how people see something done one time or by a good player and then suddenly claim imba or to change something just lol.
This replay is more of a novelty, it's more troubling how sentries make units like ultras totally useless and shine especially when armies get big because then they can split up the opposing force in half.
On March 27 2010 12:00 avilo wrote: It is amazing how people see something done one time or by a good player and then suddenly claim imba or to change something just lol.
This replay is more of a novelty, it's more troubling how sentries make units like ultras totally useless and shine especially when armies get big because then they can split up the opposing force in half.
When I see it happen on a stream or in a replay I'll feature that too, but this moment really stuck out to me especially since it was a game winner.
On March 31 2010 10:08 JoshSuth wrote: Yeah! Just wanted to show orb and the rest of you that Blizzard chose to feature this video on their official Twitter and Facebook accounts!
On March 31 2010 10:08 JoshSuth wrote: Yeah! Just wanted to show orb and the rest of you that Blizzard chose to feature this video on their official Twitter and Facebook accounts!
That is awesome. Huge props to orb for playing his way onto the Blizz Facebook and twitter accounts. Cool, atypical play like this should be recognized. It is one thing to think of it and another thing to crush opponents with it in-game in the Platinum Leagues.
On another note, it looks like SC2 will have some of the same moments that made SC1 so memorable. I think the Sentry is an extremely viable and interesting unit, and players of the other races have some catching up to do to figure out how to deal with them.
On March 27 2010 07:57 On_Slaught wrote: The force fields did aboslutely nothing there. If he had just stormed when they were grouped up, which they were VERY tightly together when he started casting the FFs, he would of gotten the same amount, if not more kills, since the zerg player had time enough to react and get some of the banelings out before the storm, which he wouldn't of been able to react to if the storm just went off on his group.
Instead, what i'd like to see is someone chain force field a group of expensive units, like ultras or something, and then nuke them with a terran partner in 2v2!
Uh, if he didn't cast the front force fields, he wouldn't have had an army, much less any temps.
Or was this a joke?
(just in case it isn't, the zerg player clearly moved his ball of death to attack, and then got stopped by forcefields. I mean, there was even a small crack and a few got through the front. There's no way they would have sat there and got stormed, they were already moving towards his army!)
My point is THIS video isn't a good example since the banelings were being wasted on the zealots and the pressence of those spine crawlers actually acted as a choke in favor of the toss. There are some situations where this might work, but you saw how little area was actually encased by the shields, even WITH the help of the spine crawlers, and that was a puny zerg army (massively outdone as far as expense and tech goes by the toss army) and it was basically only 1.5 storm size of space.
Having said that, even if you don't use the FFs to surround the enemy, as shown they are still very useful for stalling banelings that are running at your armor.
Oh, and to the above poster, I didn't see any roaches in there, just the 4 mutalisks.
As said before, without the forcefield, the banelings woulda destroyed the P. Banelings aren't spider mines, one blowing up doesnt kill the entire crowd so the whole "2 zealots soaking up all the banelings" is rubbish.
On March 27 2010 11:38 VX14 wrote: yeah, im pretty sure either forcefield will cost more energy in the near future or sentries will cost more minerals. my guess is sentries costing 75/100.
No.
It is amazing how people see something done one time or by a good player and then suddenly claim imba or to change something just lol.
anyways cool vid and good forcefields. Seemed like the guy was done at that point anyways tho.
im not saying this just because of the video. im saying this because no matter what protoss always gets sentries. sentries are great because if you have too much gas building up you can just add in a few sentries at very little mineral cost and they are great against any army composition. force field is used in almost any situation. guardian shield is at least a little useful in most. overall sentries seem like they are just being overused, and thus they need a nerf.
what kind of argument is that???
marines are overused. nerf them pl0x! roaches are overused. nerf them pl0x! zealots are overused. nerf them pl0x etc...
you can make that argument for basically any unit or spellcaster in the whole game. out of the many games i've played (only gold league tho) and the streams I've been watching, nowhere have I seen sentries been as imba as you make them out to be.
On March 27 2010 11:38 VX14 wrote: yeah, im pretty sure either forcefield will cost more energy in the near future or sentries will cost more minerals. my guess is sentries costing 75/100.
No.
It is amazing how people see something done one time or by a good player and then suddenly claim imba or to change something just lol.
anyways cool vid and good forcefields. Seemed like the guy was done at that point anyways tho.
im not saying this just because of the video. im saying this because no matter what protoss always gets sentries. sentries are great because if you have too much gas building up you can just add in a few sentries at very little mineral cost and they are great against any army composition. force field is used in almost any situation. guardian shield is at least a little useful in most. overall sentries seem like they are just being overused, and thus they need a nerf.
what kind of argument is that???
marines are overused. nerf them pl0x! roaches are overused. nerf them pl0x! zealots are overused. nerf them pl0x etc...
you can make that argument for basically any unit or spellcaster in the whole game. out of the many games i've played (only gold league tho) and the streams I've been watching, nowhere have I seen sentries been as imba as you make them out to be.
Well there is a video out where Check comments on sentrys seeing them as the one unit that prolly needs a nerf. So after all they might need one. So far we still in beta so we will see. I m looking forward to more protoss tears tho if they nerf sentrys :p
On March 27 2010 11:38 VX14 wrote: yeah, im pretty sure either forcefield will cost more energy in the near future or sentries will cost more minerals. my guess is sentries costing 75/100.
No.
It is amazing how people see something done one time or by a good player and then suddenly claim imba or to change something just lol.
anyways cool vid and good forcefields. Seemed like the guy was done at that point anyways tho.
im not saying this just because of the video. im saying this because no matter what protoss always gets sentries. sentries are great because if you have too much gas building up you can just add in a few sentries at very little mineral cost and they are great against any army composition. force field is used in almost any situation. guardian shield is at least a little useful in most. overall sentries seem like they are just being overused, and thus they need a nerf.
what kind of argument is that???
marines are overused. nerf them pl0x! roaches are overused. nerf them pl0x! zealots are overused. nerf them pl0x etc...
you can make that argument for basically any unit or spellcaster in the whole game. out of the many games i've played (only gold league tho) and the streams I've been watching, nowhere have I seen sentries been as imba as you make them out to be.
Well there is a video out where Check comments on sentrys seeing them as the one unit that prolly needs a nerf. So after all they might need one. So far we still in beta so we will see. I m looking forward to more protoss tears tho if they nerf sentrys :p
Check plays zerg though, so his view on balance is to be taken with a grain of salt