EPTDid both firefox & safari, didn't work :/
oh well, PC is where its at!
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Raydog
United States632 Posts
Did both firefox & safari, didn't work :/ oh well, PC is where its at! | ||
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Black Octopi
187 Posts
Also builds from here should not work since I tweaked based on some earlier problems with word wrap on browsers like chrome. | ||
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MajicPanda
70 Posts
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puckthecat
United States18 Posts
Can't wait for the Protoss and Zerg versions. | ||
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Raydog
United States632 Posts
On April 07 2010 22:58 Black Octopi wrote: Hit "New Build" type in whatever and then drag a Barracks, Supply Depot or SCV. What happens when you do that? Also builds from here should not work since I tweaked based on some earlier problems with word wrap on browsers like chrome. I drag the box all over, nothing happens. All I see is the Buildings Drag n Drop, units Drag n Drop, al l of those columns. I can drag the stuff, but then it dissapears. It is mac anyway, so it doesn't matter  | ||
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Tamerlane
Canada426 Posts
- I have a completed barracks - I have a second barracks still being built - I add a next step, which indicates 4:49 (the time at which the marine being built in the first barracks is completed) - I drag&drop TechLab # Barracks after the "Next step" problem => it waits for the 2nd barracks to complete (TechLab starts at 5:24) edit : I believe the source of the problem is that I have 2 units that complete on 4:49 (a SCV and the marine mentioned above), so I figured adding a second "Next step" (right after the other) would fix this, but here is what happens : The second "Next step" indicates 4:54 (which is a correct next step), and the TechLab now starts at 4:54! edit #2 I tried adding a "SCV" & "TechLab" sequence before a "Next step" as well as "Next step" string between the other two (so it makes the sequence SCV-NS-TL), here are the results : - Before: the SCV starts on 4:49 as it should, but the TechLab starts only at 5:24 - In between: the SCV starts on 4:49, the next step indicates 4:54 and again, the TechLab starts at 4:54 edit #3 : a similar problem occurred again, but this time it is with a supply depot that would not start before the Next step is done even if the minerals were available before that. In fact, the "Next step" string does not even need to be added, but as you can see in the following screenshot, they match: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g309/Tamerlane___/bug.png) Also, as I did this screenshot, I realized that the SCV starting at 4:31 is starting 0:04 later than it should. (and in case you wonder, the sole reason why I put a "Next step" at 4:23 was that I had another similar problem where the barracks would not begin before 4:28 with 109 minerals left) Hope that helps! | ||
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Tamerlane
Canada426 Posts
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Black Octopi
187 Posts
Concerning scouting. The way it works at the moment is basically you are sending it to its death. You'll notice it has a end time (that's its time of death). | ||
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Starfox
Austria699 Posts
Those are the only options, as you see I also can't build a reactor on fax / starports Addons Drag'n'Drop ° ^ Reactor # Barracks TechLab # Factory TechLab # Starport Things that would be nice: Autoadd things through doubleclick. Is there a way to delete things steps? :o | ||
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Grim(Reaper)
Canada58 Posts
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Tamerlane
Canada426 Posts
On April 08 2010 20:25 Black Octopi wrote: Concerning scouting. The way it works at the moment is basically you are sending it to its death. You'll notice it has a end time (that's its time of death). Oh, I didn't notice it died at some point, sorry about that. Although I tried applying the build I made to a real game situation and one of the problems I encountered was that the real income I got had discrepancies with what was being calculated, the most important factor was the gas intake. From what I've seen and understood, the resources intake is a linear function and this function starts as soon as there are workers available on the job, without taking any account of some sort of inertia such as travel time or idled time. This is mostly important when it comes to gas as even after the building is done, the worker spends time inside it and traveling back to CC, and that delay is multiplied 3 times before any sort of linear function that averages out the income/second can be applied. I have estimated a 10 seconds (replay time) difference between what was calculated for 100 gas income and what I obtained in a real game situation. That sort of issue also applies at the start, and of course for every building being built (although I have to admit this is much harder to set a reliable average). | ||
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Black Octopi
187 Posts
On April 09 2010 07:19 Tamerlane wrote: Oh, I didn't notice it died at some point, sorry about that. Although I tried applying the build I made to a real game situation and one of the problems I encountered was that the real income I got had discrepancies with what was being calculated, the most important factor was the gas intake. From what I've seen and understood, the resources intake is a linear function and this function starts as soon as there are workers available on the job, without taking any account of some sort of inertia such as travel time or idled time. This is mostly important when it comes to gas as even after the building is done, the worker spends time inside it and traveling back to CC, and that delay is multiplied 3 times before any sort of linear function that averages out the income/second can be applied. I have estimated a 10 seconds (replay time) difference between what was calculated for 100 gas income and what I obtained in a real game situation. That sort of issue also applies at the start, and of course for every building being built (although I have to admit this is much harder to set a reliable average). Well as far as building delay go, nothing I can do about that. You could just build stuff next to your CC or you could build it half a map away. Typically resisting the urge to send your SCV out as soon as you feel it getting close to that magic number (say 150 for barracks) will result in faster gathering overall. The function is also not linear, it actually takes into account worker saturation and when you expand it assumes you make a perfect split to get optimal re-saturation; its no where near perfect -- but its kind of impossible to get it perfect so I just left it at idealistic. As for gas, thats really wierd, I'll look into it but are you sure you didn't put just 2 guys in there? On April 08 2010 21:45 Starfox wrote: Firefox 3.6, I can't build a x-lab to my barracks, Those are the only options, as you see I also can't build a reactor on fax / starports Things that would be nice: Autoadd things through doubleclick. Is there a way to delete things steps? :o If you hit refactor you can click the step number to remove it. Also it works fine for me in firefox 3.6 here (I see the options and I can add those things). What operating system are on? | ||
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mathemagician1986
Germany549 Posts
One question though: when queueing SCVs, I get a 17 sec delay. How should I interpret this? To me, there is no delay in game, because I can keep building SCVs without any delay. This is really a great way to share BOs. Instead of explaining it in depth, you can just send someone the string | ||
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Tamerlane
Canada426 Posts
On April 09 2010 17:30 Black Octopi wrote:Well as far as building delay go, nothing I can do about that. You could just build stuff next to your CC or you could build it half a map away. Typically resisting the urge to send your SCV out as soon as you feel it getting close to that magic number (say 150 for barracks) will result in faster gathering overall. The function is also not linear, it actually takes into account worker saturation and when you expand it assumes you make a perfect split to get optimal re-saturation; its no where near perfect -- but its kind of impossible to get it perfect so I just left it at idealistic. As for gas, thats really wierd, I'll look into it but are you sure you didn't put just 2 guys in there? operating system are on? It's good to know that you did include worker saturation! I'm very well aware it's not possible to make it perfect, but I figure it is possible to account travel/gathering time of the workers at the start of the game (correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is not the case) as well as when a refinery is up. Also, you could let the build designer decide what kind of delay should be included for building construction distance, something in seconds, as he knows where his building will be placed. Yes, I'm aware that would probably be at the bottom of your priority list, but I think it could work, the headache is on the build designer to figure out how much time he losses in the process. Well, I think about it, it could be called "transitional loss" and could apply to a lot more things than standard builds/buildings: proxy building, building a CC on expansion spot vs inside the base (or moving a floating building in general) or any sort of player induced delay that can not be circumvented in real situations (I know I can't start the construction of different buildings with different workers within a second if I have to move my screen). And regarding the refinery, yes I am sure I did not put 2 workers in the gas, in fact I paid a lot of attention to make sure there was no worker that lost time being idled at the refinery which I needed to time very well so that there was a worker ready to enter when one of them went out. I knew it was a critical factor in the build, so I paid a lot of attention to it. I could send you a replay as well as the build order string if you want. On April 09 2010 17:36 mathemagician1986 wrote: One question though: when queueing SCVs, I get a 17 sec delay. How should I interpret this? To me, there is no delay in game, because I can keep building SCVs without any delay. This is really a great way to share BOs. Instead of explaining it in depth, you can just send someone the string Any delay that is showing is when a unit is in queue or when a building is waiting for the required resources to start (or when you are just doing nothing). | ||
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Black Octopi
187 Posts
On April 09 2010 17:36 mathemagician1986 wrote: very nice! The mathematical ability of optimising things is what pulled me into RTS in the first hand, this is great! One question though: when queueing SCVs, I get a 17 sec delay. How should I interpret this? To me, there is no delay in game, because I can keep building SCVs without any delay. This is really a great way to share BOs. Instead of explaining it in depth, you can just send someone the string Tweaking the system so "delays" that make no sense, such as those caused by waiting in production are pullued out or you have a option to make them appear as zero is on my todo list. On April 09 2010 18:26 Tamerlane wrote: Per building might be too difficult (or annoying when you use it) but I can make some flags that will change it. Something like "+10s Transitional Loss" (and so on) to your build for better control, you then add "-10s Transitional Loss" later when you are done with your proxy etc.It's good to know that you did include worker saturation! I'm very well aware it's not possible to make it perfect, but I figure it is possible to account travel/gathering time of the workers at the start of the game (correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is not the case) as well as when a refinery is up. Also, you could let the build designer decide what kind of delay should be included for building construction distance, something in seconds, as he knows where his building will be placed. Yes, I'm aware that would probably be at the bottom of your priority list, but I think it could work, the headache is on the build designer to figure out how much time he losses in the process. Well, I think about it, it could be called "transitional loss" and could apply to a lot more things than standard builds/buildings: proxy building, building a CC on expansion spot vs inside the base (or moving a floating building in general) or any sort of player induced delay that can not be circumvented in real situations (I know I can't start the construction of different buildings with different workers within a second if I have to move my screen). And regarding the refinery, yes I am sure I did not put 2 workers in the gas, in fact I paid a lot of attention to make sure there was no worker that lost time being idled at the refinery which I needed to time very well so that there was a worker ready to enter when one of them went out. I knew it was a critical factor in the build, so I paid a lot of attention to it. I could send you a replay as well as the build order string if you want. Its Hammer Time! ============================== I been playing around with a Hammer tool (ie. Buff/Nerf Hammer). I've yet to work on the interface bits so that you may compare units and also add a custom version of a unit to see how it fairs. However, my motivation for creating it was to determine the significance of the new changes to the Roach, so in that idea I've just hotwired it for now to show that >=D You can see it here: http://sc2tacop.site90.net/hammer/ You read those tables like this: -- in X vs Y, X is the attacker and Y is the defender -- rows represent your attack upgrade level, so from top to bottom: +0, +1, +2, +3 -- columns represent the targets armor level, so from left to right: +0, +1, +2, +3 -- each cell contains number of strikes required to kill (I find dps misleading when you control more then 1 unit) -- for more intuitive display I've left it as fractions (ie. 12.2 instead of 13) though you may hover over it for integer version -- if we start count at zero, cell [3,2] thus represents +3 attack vs +2 defense -- if say cell [3,2] is green that means it takes less hits to kill compared to [2,2], hence getting the +3 attack upgrade is good for you as the attacker (if it was not green the upgrade would be redundant) -- if the cell [3,2] is has a white border that means it takes more hits to kill compared to [3,1] hence getting that +2 armor upgrade is good for you as the defender -- if the text in cell [3,2] is red that means on the diagonal you take more strikes to kill compared to [2,1] -- if the text in cell [3,2] is blue that means on the diagonal you take less strikes to kill compared to [2,1] Why is the diagonal important? Lets take the main diagonal (ie. [0,0],[1,1],[2,2],[3,3]) if there is any blue text there that means the unit becomes more proficient at killing said target enemy unit as the game progresses; so pushing the game into the late game is only good for you! Likewise if there is red there then said units become less powerful later. So anyway, back to the Roach, here's what I found funny. You know how people are going "mech here I come!" everywhere? Well... This, Roach armor has been reduced from 2 to 1. Translates to this, + Workers hits required to kill roaches almost halved. + Marines have approximately gone from 37 to 29 (8 hits less) + Marauders vs Roaches at the start of the game take 8 shots instead of 9 (1 hit less) + Viking now take 1 less shot to kill Roach (approximately 12) + Banshee now take 1 less shot to kill Roach (approximately 7) + Battlecruisers now take 2 less shots to kill Roach (approximately 17) + Hydralisk now take 1 less shot to kill Roach (approximately 14) + Mutalisk now take 2 less shots to kill Roach (approximately 19) + Boord Lord now takes 1 less shot to kill Roach (approximately 6 late game) There's a reason why I did not mention Thors, Tanks, Siege Tech, Hellions in there. And that is because they have not changed at all! | ||
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Starfox
Austria699 Posts
On April 09 2010 17:30 Black Octopi wrote: If you hit refactor you can click the step number to remove it. Also it works fine for me in firefox 3.6 here (I see the options and I can add those things). What operating system are on? Ah yea, adblock plus somehow manage to fuck around with those. Disabled it for your site. And thanks for the refactor deletion tip. reaper| 0.8.0.14593| terran| un0| un0| un0| bu3| bu2| fl1| fl7| fl7| fl2| ad3| mo0| fl0 Why won't it let me build a reaper? :S | ||
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Black Octopi
187 Posts
On April 09 2010 20:28 Starfox wrote: Ah yea, adblock plus somehow manage to fuck around with those. Disabled it for your site. And thanks for the refactor deletion tip. Why won't it let me build a reaper? :S You need to attach the tech lab to the barracks; you only built it. reaper| 0.8.0.14593| terran| un0| un0| un0| bu3| bu2| fl1| fl7| fl7| fl2| ad3| mo0| fl0| fl11| un3 I guess its counter intuitive. I'll make it so it auto-attaches in next edition. | ||
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evotech
48 Posts
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oolon
United States27 Posts
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Black Octopi
187 Posts
On April 10 2010 00:30 evotech wrote: IE6 error on page Its not designed to run on Trident (it says so on the bottom). In particular not designed to run on the old buggy Trident IE6 uses. IE6 also has some really serious security issues. I suggest you upgrade it to 7 or higher even if you don't use since other programs might call it to display adds or some sort of webpage embed. | ||
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