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United States8476 Posts
What did you choose to research?
Protoss
Poll: Tier 1 Protoss5% increased attack speed per attack upgrade (368) 86% 5% additional life per armor upgrade (60) 14% 428 total votes Your vote: Tier 1 Protoss (Vote): 5% increased attack speed per attack upgrade
(Vote): 5% additional life per armor upgrade
Poll: Tier 2 ProtossSupply depots built instantaneously (208) 51% Refineries produce gas 25% faster (200) 49% 408 total votes Your vote: Tier 2 Protoss (Vote): Supply depots built instantaneously
(Vote): Refineries produce gas 25% faster
Poll: Tier 3 ProtossRefineries no longer require SCVs (262) 73% 2 SCVs can be trained simultaneously (96) 27% 358 total votes Your vote: Tier 3 Protoss (Vote): Refineries no longer require SCVs
(Vote): 2 SCVs can be trained simultaneously
Poll: Tier 4 ProtossEnables Science Vessels (237) 75% Enables Ravens (80) 25% 317 total votes Your vote: Tier 4 Protoss (Vote): Enables Ravens
(Vote): Enables Science Vessels
Poll: Tier 5 ProtossCombines Tech Lab and Reactor (266) 89% Barracks units arrive by drop-pod (32) 11% 298 total votes Your vote: Tier 5 Protoss (Vote): Combines Tech Lab and Reactor
(Vote): Barracks units arrive by drop-pod
Zerg
Poll: Tier 1 ZergAdds turrets to bunkers (254) 62% Gives bunkers +150 HP (158) 38% 412 total votes Your vote: Tier 1 Zerg (Vote): Adds turrets to bunkers
(Vote): Gives bunkers +150 HP
Poll: Tier 2 ZergEnables flame turret (216) 60% Enables planetary fortress (143) 40% 359 total votes Your vote: Tier 2 Zerg (Vote): Enables planetary fortress
(Vote): Enables flame turret
Poll: Tier 3 ZergEnables hercules, massive transport (216) 70% Enables predator, anti-infantry specialist (91) 30% 307 total votes Your vote: Tier 3 Zerg (Vote): Enables predator, anti-infantry specialist
(Vote): Enables hercules, massive transport
Poll: Tier 4 ZergShips and vehicles slowly regenerate life (197) 65% Casters gaint +100 starting energy and +100 maximum energy (107) 35% 304 total votes Your vote: Tier 4 Zerg (Vote): Casters gaint +100 starting energy and +100 maximum energy
(Vote): Ships and vehicles slowly regenerate life
Poll: Level 5 ZergEnables Psi Disrupter, slows all nearby zerg units (152) 56% Enables Hive Mind Emulator, can permanently mind control zerg units (118) 44% 270 total votes Your vote: Level 5 Zerg (Vote): Enables Hive Mind Emulator, can permanently mind control zerg units
(Vote): Enables Psi Disrupter, slows all nearby zerg units
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I haven't gotten very far yet, but I will keep voting in the polls I have gotten to.
So far, I've only got one Protoss research, so I chose to do attack speed.
For Zerg, I got to level 2 and did +life for bunker and Flame Turret.
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A couple surprises in the current results for me:
1. If you go science vessel (medics for mech), there's no need for the regen, and doubly so with the extra energy your vessels will have.
2. SCV-free gas (saving 150min and 3 supply per gas) vs doubly fast startup? Really?
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On July 28 2010 23:54 Phenrei wrote:
A couple surprises in the current results for me:
1. If you go science vessel (medics for mech), there's no need for the regen, and doubly so with the extra energy your vessels will have.
2. SCV-free gas (saving 150min and 3 supply per gas) vs doubly fast startup? Really? You can take gas gysers all over the map.
Im a bit sad I went for supply depos instantly over extra gas. My laziness probably made it harder for me.
The mind control things are really useful on the final mission btw.
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At the beginning of the game in any mission you always feel gas cramped. Being able to throw up two refineries immediately and never having to worry about if you have three SCVs on it and never having to worry about your SCVs getting sniped is very nice. Combining this with the +25% increase in refinery rate means you never, ever have to think about gas for the rest of the campaign.
Also, in missions that have other empty bases, just send an SCV up there and slap down a refinery or two. No need for Command Centers and you get a LOT of gas. If the other base gets invaded, there's really no harm done as that's only a 150 mineral investment (versus a CC + 6 SCVs + 2 refineries = 850 mineral investment and more time).
Many missions have limited amount of minerals but much more gas. Saving 300 minerals for each base you create means you can use those minerals for other things - like a battlecruiser.
When your refineries run out of gas they just stop. If you don't have this upgrade, you also get three dead-in-the-water SCVs that you have to micro back to your minerals.
All the small things add up.
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I got both regenerative biosteel and science vessels because I didn't know about the science vessel ability when I got it. The energy thing seemed worthless since at the time the only units that had energy were ones that never seemed to run out (ghosts with perma cloak, medics)
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United States8476 Posts
The energy upgrade is really useful once you get thors and have to repair the hero thor. Also, I think the extra hp on bunkers is much better than the dinky turrets you can get on them.
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I think the extra HP on bunkers is better. The damage output from the turret is about equal to one additional marine, right? Can the turret hit air units?
At any rate - +150 health on turrets + Turret auto-repair upgrade increases survivability especially when you need it in the final missions.
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Here's my take:
Zerg:
T1
Looking at the little video clip, the turrets took ages just to kill 1 zergling so I went with the 150hp bunkers and definitely don't regret it, most of the damage is done by tanks and vikings behind the bunker anyway.
T2
Planetary fortress all the way, it's SOOOO useful in + Show Spoiler + although I haven't tried the flame turrets yet so they might be good too.
T3
I went with the predator and it sucks, go the dropship, there's at least one mission where it would have been incredibly good.
T4
I got the energy upgrade and don't regret it for a second, having BCs that can double yamato, banshees that can basically stay cloaked forever, science vessels that never run out of energy, medics, thors... the list goes on. Such a great upgrade.
T5
I got the psi emitter but I forgot to use it lol, can't comment on how good it is.
Protoss:
T1
Went with the attack, I always upgrade attack first and put guys in bunkers anyway so this is a no brainer.
T2
Went with the instant depots but the 25% gas would have been better I think, because after you get the SCV upgrade you'd basically be able to insta build them anyway with 3 or 4 SCVs. I was pretty gas starved in some of the final missions.
T3
As others have mentioned, the auto refineries are just better, you can put them all over the map and also most maps start with a couple of refineries anyway so that's an extra 6 SCVs you can put on minerals right off the bat so the benefit of training 2 workers at once is pretty much cancelled out anyway.
T4
Science vessels are just so useful with the auto repair, irradiate isn't that good but still - auto repair is just baller as. Also + Show Spoiler +there's one mission where you have to make a bunch of BCs and have to take them through an area where they slowly lose health and the SVs are super useful there.
T5
I went tech reactor and didn't regret it, there's a few missions where your base is really cramped and the tech reactors were great in this case (not having to build tons of tech lab buildings). I haven't tried the drop pods but from the description they seem like a very situational ability.
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I just went into the upgrade with one goal in mind: get new stuff
So i got the predator and the flame turrets and well, haven't used them more then once yet  so if your like serious id go the other way
but i just wanted all the new stuff
Anyway, with the auto refineries, the +25% faster gas is just pointless so having instasupplies is helpful, esp when you get new units by surprise all the time, and SCVs dont have to waste mining time on making them
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i cant believe people arent going for drop pods. It's motherfucking drop pods ffs.
Who cares about convenience.
+100 energy and mech regen are both so tempting O_O!
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i think people are discounting how much faster your econ gets started with reactor scv's. i got em and i was saturated so quickly and honestly gassing the map is great but terran there arent really many gas only units and i reactor rines like crazy anyways so i really appreciate the minerals. i also got 25% faster mine on the refinery those of us who are diamond have learned to not supply block ourselves  however if you frequently supply block yourself dont count it out
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On July 29 2010 15:32 Sfydjklm wrote:
i cant believe people arent going for drop pods. It's motherfucking drop pods ffs.
Who cares about convenience.
+100 energy and mech regen are both so tempting O_O!
can't say no to building 2 siege tanks at once yo
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Well I really loved the supply depots to make instant huge barriers for the enemy to get through, also easy to get your nice little block back instantaneously if it is destroyed
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Yeah at lest on Normal I also go with all the non-Multiplayer stuff. What actually suprised me is how many went Tech Reactor over Droppods - one is convenient, the other is really abusable. Scan-drop-stim, what can stop that?
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Crap, I forgot that orbital depots isn't really necessary considering you can just use multiple SCVs to build depots. Oh well.
I personally favor command center reactor over the remote gas though. I think it will help in achievements/objective that need to be completed in a certain amount of time, which I think could be more useful than just being able to get gas without spending as much minerals.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 29 2010 16:05 Unentschieden wrote:
Yeah at lest on Normal I also go with all the non-Multiplayer stuff. What actually suprised me is how many went Tech Reactor over Droppods - one is convenient, the other is really abusable. Scan-drop-stim, what can stop that?
I thought the units just drop in at the rally point, and you can't control the timing? Getting marines one-by-one at some distant rally seems kind of worthless.
On July 29 2010 19:29 Xapti wrote:
I personally favor command center reactor over the remote gas though. I think it will help in achievements/objective that need to be completed in a certain amount of time, which I think could be more useful than just being able to get gas without spending as much minerals.
As others have said, CC reactor needs to make 6 extra SCVs before it outweighs the SCVs that would be on gas otherwise. On certain missions you only have access to 1 gas, but so it only needs to make 3 to outdo remote gas, but for most missions with 2+ gas, freeing up all the SCVs to mine minerals makes for better overall economy, especially in short-term.
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On July 29 2010 16:05 Unentschieden wrote:
Yeah at lest on Normal I also go with all the non-Multiplayer stuff. What actually suprised me is how many went Tech Reactor over Droppods - one is convenient, the other is really abusable. Scan-drop-stim, what can stop that?
Droppods become rather useless in harder difficulties. Infantry is pretty crappy in Brutal. Mech + Science Vessels are the best army for the campaign, so being able to double train those is more important than dropping infantry.
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Probably fosters bad habits, but I found Insta-Supply + Auto-Refinery incredibly useful in terms of allowing me to focus on unit management rather than base upkeep during the campaign. If I got a little too caught up in micro, no worries, just insta-drop 5 depots. NEXT!
Plus, there were several maps (Supernova, for example) where it was WONDERFUL to have auto-refineries rather than wasting 3 supply/150 min on gas.
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Some random thoughts on the techs:
Hercules vs Predator:, I played through twice now (once normal, once hard) and never used either of them.
PF vs turret. PF seems sorta better, however you do lose the mule/scan ability. Would have been better if it retained those abilities and perhaps buff the flameturret some.
Science vessel is a no brainer tbh. Its a medic for your mech, and its absolutely awesome :D
I also went with the mech auto repair, coupled with the SV your mech will be nigh immortal.
Zerg top tier, I went with the slowing thing both playthroughs and only used them in the last mission. It makes a nice ball of the speedlings for the tanks to eat through. I was unsure of the actual mechanics behind the mind control tower. If its automatic then hf with your brand new zergling while hordes of ultras stomp through your base, if its manual, then it will eat in to the macro and since I'm not a pro player, I thought it would just be better to go for the aoe slow, even though its range is quite sad.
I also went for tech reactors, simply because of limited base space just about every mission.
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The flame turret + psi disruptor combo was insanely good for defending against zerg, and absolutely perfect to spam if supply blocked on the last mission, or just generally if you needed something to defend your base when away.
Picked the dropship instead of the predator since I hadn't unlocked the medivac yet at that time. Didn't use it once though, the requirements were far too high and expensive. A fusion core for a transport, wtf? Loved the self generating upgrade for mech and ships, never had to worry about repairs, which made the mission with BC's much easier.
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Thanks for the thread. I was gonna create the exact same one, since I'm behind on the campaign (had to wait for regular shipping). I hated the fact that the research decisions are irreversible, so reading others' insight was helpful.
If a mod sees this, could you maybe add the word "laboratory" to the title so it shows up in more searches? Maybe "Laboratory Research - Zerg/Protoss" or something that would put both the key search terms in the title (and in the sidebar for non-forum-view people). Thanks.
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I really enjoy the automated refinery. I can place the refineries at an expansion without even needing a command center when the need arises.
Firing turrets was fantastic as it allowed for basic anti air while i trained marines.
I chose the hercules because I wanted to see it and it was great for the level on the planet next to the star about to go nova. I could pick up all my SCVs and move to the next base very quickly. The predator looked nice but my flame turret provided the anti-zergling that i needed.
I chose the turret because I prefer the enemy not even get close to my command center. Lifting off is a huge bonus anyways.
Droppods was an easy choice for me. The only apply to barracks whereas the tech reactor helps me get tons of units quickly.
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Some random thoughts
predator vs hercules...I hate predators  . I bought it because I thought it would come out of the reactor...well I was wrong. Even worse since I got it when I did Maw of the void! I was kicking myself for that. The predator is just very fragile which leads to it going down quickly but it isn't even that much better then the other mech at anti zergling. Hercules will serve you for maw of the void then be useless so it's really a choice between a unit that is useless 90% of the time but can be good. or a unit that works for one mission and then will never be used again.
bunker health vs gun: To much fun for me to get the gun. I know it sucks but I have a minimalist unit strategy for defence so the extra firepower is good for me(I can spare an scv but not a marauder). That and it can help a bit when you have two or three(gates of hell for instance)
tech reactors vs drop pods: I went with drop pods because I was on normal and...well the drop pods are just cool! It makes you feel like your a bad ass when you summoon an army in the middle of a giant battle...from orbit! In practicle use though the tech reactor is better.
Science vessel vs raven: Science vessel made my factory and starport usefull. Until then I did heavy barracks builds with medics healing everything in sight. If I didn't feel like using the helion so much I probably would go with the raven to support my bio army.
energy vs mech regen: Simply put if you want to go bio then the energy is godly(medics suddenly became that much better). The regen is good but the mech units tend to me either be support(siege tank, science vessel, raven) or to fragile to benefit much (helion,vulture).
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I took Hercules, Science Vessel, Shrike Turret, Auto-Refinery, Enhanced Vespene Filtration, Tech Reactor, Psi Disruptor, Weapon Capacitor, Perdition Turret, and Bio-Steel.
I made a total of one Hercules, ever, on the mission where you're at the Xel'naga wreck trying to disable rip-field generators. It's the only mission I can think of where I had any reason to move ground forces through the air; the exception being the Moebius Data Core mission where you need Medivacs for the healing they provide. I doubt I would have made any Predators, so meh at that entire choice.
Biosteel combined with Science Vessel healing gives unmatched mech survivability, especially fighting inside ripfields.
Filtration and Auto-Refinery literally negates gas as a concern. Your sole involvement in gas economy is remembering to order an SCV to create the 75-mineral refinery and go back to harvesting minerals or patrolling with auto-repair active. I finished most missions with 2000+ gas in reserve because I played M&M style.
I only used Psi Disruptors during All-In, and they go well with Perdition Turrets when you start getting rushed by exponential Zergling waves. + Show Spoiler +Saved me from wasting the Artifact pulse when I would need it much more during Kerrigan pushes.
The Tech Reactor is unquestionably the best thing Terrans could ever ask for. Having 2 factories shit out four siege tanks instantly turns a losing battle front into a well-defended base. I'm not sure what application Drop Pods have at any point in the campaign, though I suppose it's nice to grow your MMM ball on-site, and if not for Science Vessels I would probably not have used mech nearly enough to warrant Tech Reactors. I skipped the Medics from Reactors upgrade in favor of other things which I didn't use nearly as often as I used Medics, and by the time Tech Reactor became available, I was desperate to produce 2 Medics at a time. Hindsight is 20\20, right...?
Since I used heavy Medics in the campaign, I almost wonder if HP would have made a bigger difference than damage, but 15% of 55 HP is only 63.5, and that's at Armor 3. Killing enemies is the best way to avoid incoming damage, so stimming 15% attack speed upgraded marines were probably the right choice.
The Shrike Turret is another HP vs. DPS issue. Those turrets killed Mutas faster, which was important to me. I didn't mind putting 2-3 SCVs at each battle front to repair the lower-HP shrike bunkers.
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the only think i regret is getting turrets on bunkers. turrets = 1 marine while the extra hp helps more
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I picked Hive Mind Emulator and played the last mission on Normal. It was glorious - having gone after the nydus network, stealing broodlords was great. Not sure how well it'll do on Hard, I'll give that a try later. Likely with the increased pressure, I'll have less time to get them up and they won't be as effective.
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EPT
