NBA Offseason 2019

On June 30 2019 08:53 Jerubaal wrote:
Was Irving leaving the Celtics expected?

On June 30 2019 11:20 andrewlt wrote:
Not sure about that. Might not be able to coexist with Simmons.

I don't even see the point of having a traditional point guard in today's NBA, pun intended. You don't need to have a player of traditional point guard size to handle the ball. There are so many players from 2-5 that can handle the ball that if a team can have a taller lineup, they should.

On July 01 2019 00:14 JimmiC wrote:
He.might get out anyway. Keeping him around keeps them bad but not bad enough for a top pick. I believe they are in tge tax and they already trader porter jr. I could see them look at NO haul (not that it would exactly the same. And think that might be worth it especially with a super max not playing, possibly slowed john wall.

On July 02 2019 07:35 Twinkle Toes wrote:


But why the fuck are they re-signing Rivers though???!!

On July 02 2019 07:35 Twinkle Toes wrote:

Harden is ok. Their problem in the last 3-5 playoffs is not with Harden, as Harden has adjusted well enough to plug any weaknesses, but GSW. And now that GSW is weaker, they have a chance. What Houston needs is a legit interior presence (on defense) who can create and flourish (on offense) even without being fed by Harden (maybe prime Gasol, Lopez, Love, someone of the sort) and a not-CP3 point guard (like Parker, Billups). Keep the entire row of 3-and-D bombers and defenders and theyre championship level.

But why the fuck are they re-signing Rivers though???!!

On July 02 2019 16:11 cLutZ wrote:
The NBA is just so incredibly poorly managed. Should easily be the #1 sport in the USA, instead allows free agency to be more important than development, thus turning off most people.

After looking like we would find out today, we will not. Kawhi is still undecided & is not going to finalize his decision today. Also, contrary to other reports, Kawhi is NOT interested in signing a 1 or 2 year deal. When he signs, it will be a long term contract.

On July 01 2019 20:34 Twinkle Toes wrote:
OOOooookkk...

Funny to see the dynasty implode like this. Barely a month ago the Warriors were the gold standard of team chemistry, impeccable front office management, great coaching on all levels, and overall tight-knit organization. Now, everyone is throwing molotov cocktails inside the house. The Iggy situation proves that owners/managers will always protect their own interest even if it derails players.

On July 06 2019 07:04 JimmiC wrote:
I think that is basically the players argument. That drafting them takes away all their choice on where they want to play and therefor they can get choice at the 8 year mark. Perhaps furthering the luxury tax would help.

But I think the best thing would be to do away with the max. There is no reason that the 50th best player and best player should make the same money. In their primes LBJ and Durrant should have been making 50+ million a year, all the sudden you can't put AD/LBJ and Kawhi on the same team because they are all worth double the max.

On July 06 2019 17:19 Jerubaal wrote:
Question: Would there be a downside to just trading away all of your draft picks and just working through free agency/trades?

On July 06 2019 23:27 JimmiC wrote:
Man that is crazy! The LA vs LA battles will be intense but I got the clips.

Now the question is will the raps trade kyle, gasol and serge?


Also kd and kyrie went to brooklyn not NJ.

On July 07 2019 03:19 KOFgokuon wrote:


I believe they all expire after this year so IMO he masai either flips them for assets or just let’s them expire and rebuilds around siakim and OG. They need to hit in the draft bc once those two hit their extensions cap space disappears and next years free agent class is headlined by players already on their roster. Pretty barren

On July 06 2019 22:27 Twinkle Toes wrote:

Welp, seems like your boy Cris Carter was made the barking fool by Kawhi

On July 08 2019 03:07 cLutZ wrote:
The size of the Lakers makes me more convinced thier front office is dumb as rocks. LeBron is a 4 now defensively, full stop. AD is a 5. You can't play both+ Kuzma + another of Cousins/Javale. That team can't play defense.

On July 08 2019 10:58 zev318 wrote:


? someone's gotta give AD a break, i dont think they signed cousins/mcgee to play starter minutes.

On July 08 2019 19:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
One issue that will make GS worse in next year's playoffs that i've not seen brought up: Klay won't be as good. What Klay Thompson did in the 2019 playoffs is not repeatable. I've never seen a long distance bomber hit so many very well defended 3s. I can't see Klay ever doing that again.

On July 08 2019 14:31 cLutZ wrote:


And? They are thin elsewhere, why both? If one gets hurt that is a midseason acquisition (also Lebron should be playing some minutes at the 5 defensively). Danny Green was, IMO, a perfect pickup, but one I thought they were going to try to make before they cleared out the $32 mil for a max guy. He makes me have slightly more faith, but I think their total package of pickups is very weird outside of Green.

Obviously its a hard job to fill in around Lebron/AD/Kuzma because they all want to play frontcourt, and only one plays great defense consistently now, but the current moves are confusing aside from Danny Green. KCP is not a good fit as well. They prolly need to sign a bunch of PGs to "back up" Cook who certainly shouldn't be a starter for a playoff team.

On July 08 2019 14:31 cLutZ wrote:
They prolly need to sign a bunch of PGs to "back up" Cook who certainly shouldn't be a starter for a playoff team.

On July 08 2019 22:55 ZenithM wrote:
DRuss makes absolutely no sense in that team, that's a nice FO move but they would probably trade him again at some point. Opponents would relish him stealing shots from Curry or Thompson.

On July 08 2019 23:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote:

i think the earliest they are permitted to trade him is mid-December.

On July 08 2019 22:55 ZenithM wrote:
Depends what GS gets for Russell, I guess. But right now for me they're not contenders anymore. A WCF contender maybe but they would stop there.
DRuss makes absolutely no sense in that team, that's a nice FO move but they would probably trade him again at some point. Opponents would relish him stealing shots from Curry or Thompson.


I think the Lakers hope Caruso becomes a 3&D kind of guard to pair with Lebron. He has shown potential in that role. He's average-to-plus defensively, doesn't shoot a lot but shoots alright. He would defend 1s but he would not be the one making shit happen in offense. If JJR thinks Satoransky is starter caliber I don't think Caruso being starter caliber is a big stretch .

On July 09 2019 02:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
OKC picked up another 1st rounder and saved a bunch of salary and luxury tax money.
twitter.com

I don't buy OKC's medical staff PR people saying Paul George was doing no additional damage to his shoulder by playing with a partially torn rotator cuff for months. The reason I do not buy it is it got to the point where George could not lift his arm over his head.

https://www.12up.com/posts/6346824-video-tracy-mcgrady-thinks-paul-george-has-a-torn-labrum

Had the pain and flexibility stayed the same or improved their "no additional damage" story would make more sense.

On July 09 2019 00:45 zev318 wrote:
no need to discuss whether caruso or cook is a starter or not, cause rondo is gonna start

On July 09 2019 03:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is the Lakers starting 5 Rondo//Green//James//Kuzma//Davis ?

On July 09 2019 00:45 zev318 wrote:


i dont think they would trade him anyways until klay is closer to coming back. i honestly dont see a DLO trade until next summer at the earliest, unless someone blow the warriors socks off with an offer at the deadline.



no need to discuss whether caruso or cook is a starter or not, cause rondo is gonna start

On July 09 2019 21:58 ZenithM wrote:

Rondo will start just because it's a big ego/respect issue in the NBA unless the player explicitly accept not starting (like Iguodala or Lou Will). I guess what I was arguing that the Lakers could give a significant amount of minutes to Caruso.
I guess this is pointless now because they signed Bradley, likely to fill that 3&D guard position besides Lebron, which they said will start at Point Guard (which isn't a real change anyway, he will certainly not be guarding the opposing PG).

On July 09 2019 23:41 JimmiC wrote:
They singed him hoping to get playoff rondo not regular season rondo.

On July 09 2019 23:41 JimmiC wrote:
When he is engaged, as recently as 2 years ago with NO in the Playoffs he was pretty darn good. That being said there is a reason why true professionals like like Ray Allen hated him. I wouldn't want him, but the Lakers don't have a lot of options.

On July 10 2019 18:01 Elroi wrote:
I think Kawhi is a strange dude. I don't understand the psychology of a guy forcing his way out of San Antonio who has nurtured him, turned him into a star and a franchise player, then winning in a spectacular fashion with a new team that played good, fun basketball in an organization where everyone seems to enjoy themselves. Just to leave it all behind. He is not a normal dude emotionally, that guy.

On July 10 2019 20:43 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Turns out.. after all this bargaining and conniving ... Kawhi only guaranteed the Clippers 2 years. ouch.

There is a big difference between the culture in Southern California and Toronto, Canada. California also produces a massive # of baseball players. Even when the Toronto BLue Jays were teh best run organization in Major League Baseball almost every California kid couldn't wait to GTFO. You know who stuck around? Guys from places like New York and Michigan.

Kawhi ain't the only California beach bum that doesn't like Toronto. The people from the southern US are really easy to spot in January man.. You can see it in their eyes... they all look like fish out of water.

On July 12 2019 15:19 cLutZ wrote:
I don't understand Houston's plan. At least CP3 can shoot (even though I have always kind of thought he sucked).

I dont get it. Obviously GMs havent caught up to the cLutzy rules of point guard contracts (aka never pay them) because Kemba got $$, Kyrie got paid, DLo got paid. But now, all the sudden these contracts are toxic and need to be moved? Obviously I agree, but why have some orgs come around to my position? Will Boston be giving away first round picks to off Kemba in 12 months (probably IMO)?

At least CP3 can shoot (even though I have always kind of thought he sucked)

On July 13 2019 15:27 ZenithM wrote:

You meant "sucked" as in "right now he sucks" or that CP3 always sucked?

On July 13 2019 16:01 cLutZ wrote:


I mean that, whatever tier most people had CP3 in during his career, I always ranked him 1.5 to 2.5 tiers below that.

I am a CP3 anti-Stan. Always have been.

On July 15 2019 13:46 rabidch wrote:
the biggest knock against cp3 is hed get injured a lot in the playoffs.

On July 15 2019 13:46 rabidch wrote:
the biggest knock against cp3 is hed get injured a lot in the playoffs.

On July 15 2019 08:09 Elroi wrote:

Why? I can understand that people don't like CP3's personality. But I think he's always been an incredibly skilled basketball player. He is not like Russ where he obviously has flaws and you can disagree about how good he really is all things considered. CP3 to me seems to just be an all around incredible player. Sure, recently he has fallen off because of age, but if you look at his earlier career.

On July 12 2019 10:07 JimmiC wrote:
I have no idea how it will Chris Paul and Harden did not get along because both wanted the ball. Lets now add the guy who wants the ball even more than them two and likes to shoot more.

On July 16 2019 08:24 Jerubaal wrote:
Do you think CP3 would have done better in another era? How do you think he would have performed if he had been plugged into the Nash Suns?

On July 16 2019 10:36 cLutZ wrote:

Maybe wayyy back in the Jerry West era when he would have been the most athletic 1 by far and physical defenses hadn't been developed.

But his draft year was right around the time they made the rule changes that let Point Guards be as relevant as they are now. Nash & CP3 were the first two of the new era to exploit the no handcheck rule. Since then its been a PG explosion from Steph to Same to Kyrie to Kemba. This is no mistake, its a result of the rule changes.

On July 16 2019 22:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
I figured the Lakers had a behind-the-scenes, handshake deal with Anthony Davis when they traded for him. I thought AD had probably agreed to sign a long term deal with the Lakers. NOPE. He can leave in a year. He intends to test the FA market.

If anything goes sideways with either LA team they traded away a truckload of players for Leonard who can leave in two years and Anthony Davis who can leave after one year.

EDIT: Masai Ujiri//the Raptors trading away only one 1st rounder for one year of Leonard is looking better all the time.

On July 18 2019 01:30 zev318 wrote:
at the end of the day, that's not all they traded away for leonard and they've lost everything they got from that trade.

On July 19 2019 01:16 JimmiC wrote:

I think youre right, based on that he was. He was often the raps best player in the playoffs, not always but often. And he got them there. There are a bunch of people who "profile better" with less success.

On July 1 2016 21:24 RowdierBob wrote:
Top five poison-pill contracts that will be signed this off season:

1. Demar - max deal at 5 years/$153 million. I actually do like DeMar and he improves his game each year. But he's not a franchise guy. He's an improved, but still high usage, inefficient shooting guard that can't shoot from range.

On July 19 2019 01:30 ZenithM wrote:
In general I don't like arguments that go "Bench player A has better +/- than Starter B, so Starter B should be benched". It's something JJR says quite a lot, even if he presents it in more nuanced ways. The Satoransky > John Wall thing remains a classic to me :D.
Anyway, we all know the Raptors bench mob was historically good 2 years ago. But low-minute bench players play mostly vs other bench players (vanilla +/- is basically worthless if you want to compare them to starters), and see very few occurrences of play in a starters vs starters setup, so things like RPM are not that reliable either.

On July 19 2019 01:50 ZenithM wrote:
Edit: Also you don't need to sell me on Lowry. I responded to your post because you compared Derozan to Norman Powell. I was never arguing about Lowry.

On July 19 2019 01:50 ZenithM wrote:
Masai is a good executive, he didn't have much choice and would rather have Derozan, a good all-star player that can get you points far in the playoffs in the East, than not have him at the time.

On July 19 2019 02:04 JimmiC wrote:
He often was. I mean its long ago where george hill was goinf to be better than lowry chris paul and so on because short pg all get bad after age 30.
You cant only pull your posts from the past that you think are smart and leave out all the rest.
Also people tend to think SA had a pretty good front office and they traded for DD

On June 29 2017 01:08 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i'd stay away from any point guard under 6'1", over 32 years old and wanting a long term deal.

In the last 30 years how many guys under 6'1" had great seasons after their 32nd birthday?

i'd stay away from both Paul and Lowry if they want a deal longer than 2 years. Let someone else screw up their salary cap.

On July 19 2019 02:04 JimmiC wrote:
Also people tend to think SA had a pretty good front office and they traded for DD

On July 17 2019 14:54 Vindicare605 wrote:


That had as much to do with the Spurs spiting the Lakers as anything else. We offered plenty for him I'm sure and they just gave us the finger.

I see you Spurs. Gonna enjoy trashing on you all during your rebuild.

On July 19 2019 19:24 cLutZ wrote:
I think a lot of teams are beginning to underrate draft picks again (this seems cyclical). Sure there is an assumption that lots of high picks don't make miracles, but Philly is doing well, Boston is doing well, and most of the time even your average #25 pick has a lot of value, because he's cheap, and often an upperclassman that contributes right away.

Now, obviously its different in every case. Lebron, Durant, Kawhi are different than Kyrie. This is, of course, nuance lost on the mainstream sports media that declares all players in the top 20 superstars, just as they declare all the top 15 quarterbacks "franchise quarterbacks." Most good NBA players lose all value to their teams once they sign a deal in free agency. There are a few who exceed the max salary in value, and thus are outliers. Soon someone will give the AD package for someone like Beal or Lillard/MCollum and we will be back in the "Nets were fleeced" timeline.

On July 20 2019 23:59 zev318 wrote:


there's nothing to underrate about draft picks, teams want stars/franchise players, and if that's what you want, almost everything outside the top 5 picks is useless. and all these 1st rounders flying around this year is 15+ at best, good for finding complimentary pieces but really dont mean anything if you cant find your franchise player.

On July 21 2019 05:30 Elroi wrote:

Golden state's last top 5 draft pick was 2002. The Spurs last top 5 draft pick was 1997. First round picks out of the top 10 can take you far.

On July 21 2019 10:37 zev318 wrote:


spurs are pretty good example actually, they got their 1 franchise player in duncan and then were able to find great complimentary players with their late 1st rounders. ive said it before and i'll say it again, ginobili and parker are in the HOF, but i dont consider them at the same level as like kobe for example.

i did also say "almost". like if u added up all the picks outside of top 5 picks ever, its probably like 99% chance you'll not get a franchise player.

id say detroit was probably the last team in a very long time without a true franchise player to win a championship

On July 21 2019 17:53 Elroi wrote:

I don't know that there is a clear definition of what a franchise player is, but Tony, Manu, and Kawhi were all among the top players in the league. So are Curry, Thompson, Draymon, who were all picked outside the top 5 in the lottery. Other guys drafted later, on top of my head: Giannis, Kyle Lowry, Jimmy Butler, Lillard, McCollum, Igoudala, Lou Williams, Jokic, DeAndre Jordan, Iaiah Thomas, Marc Gasol etc. If you go back a couple of years, you get Dirk, Rondo, Pierce etc.

On July 22 2019 00:11 JimmiC wrote:
And whats the % in the top 5?

On July 19 2019 01:30 ZenithM wrote:
In general I don't like arguments that go "Bench player A has better +/- than Starter B, so Starter B should be benched". It's something JJR says quite a lot, even if he presents it in more nuanced ways. The Satoransky > John Wall thing remains a classic to me :D.
Anyway, we all know the Raptors bench mob was historically good 2 years ago. But low-minute bench players play mostly vs other bench players (vanilla +/- is basically worthless if you want to compare them to starters), and see very few occurrences of play in a starters vs starters setup, so things like RPM are not that reliable either.

On July 25 2019 02:15 IgnE wrote:
what would your proposed solution be? i don’t really see why players shouldn’t be able to move around

On July 25 2019 02:15 IgnE wrote:
what would your proposed solution be? i don’t really see why players shouldn’t be able to move around

On July 25 2019 10:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
unless the league is systematically hiding revenues
https://nypost.com/2011/11/13/nhl-union-gets-book-smart/

then its tough to tell what is really going on.

On July 25 2019 21:40 JimmiC wrote:

Why would taking away the max take money away from the players? Wouldn’t it just change the distribution?

On July 26 2019 02:26 Jerubaal wrote:
I can't see why anyone would have any problem with players using the NBA as their personal rec league.

On July 26 2019 07:30 IgnE wrote:


as opposed to the owners’/GMs’ personal team building league? i don’t see how giving the players control makes it any less serious

On July 26 2019 08:29 JimmiC wrote:


I think for fans they want their team to have a equal chance to win as everyone else's team, and theoretically this is why the rules of Salary caps, the draft and so on happened. The fear is that if the NBA moves to a completely player driven league that they will all want to go play in the few major centers and the rest of the teams won't have a "fair" shake.

And I believe what the fans want does matter as they are the ones turning all these super athlete's into millionaires, and a few billionaires even. And of course also making the billionaire owners even richer.

On July 26 2019 01:55 ZenithM wrote:
Reports coming in that Kawhi was going to the Lakers if Clippers didn't get a second guy. That's what I thought from the start. Toronto takes it graciously yet are still hurt obviously, but they just never had any chance, going to LA is not a basketball decision.

On July 26 2019 23:18 JimmyJRaynor wrote:

He only signed a year deal so he has to keep the bidding war going by claiming he was "very close" to going someplace else. Also, if its truly all about family and not about titles he would not wait until the Clippers trade for PG before signing.

On July 28 2019 17:34 ZenithM wrote:

Could have been something like 1) get to LA, 2) build his own good team. If you're going to LA anyway and both teams want you bad, might as well create the best situation for you.

On August 04 2019 11:06 JimmiC wrote:
I thought he took a 4 year max?

On August 10 2019 15:55 Jerubaal wrote:
Man, there are no stars on Team USA.

On August 12 2019 06:24 Jerubaal wrote:
Seems like that person liked the Warriors more than the Raptors.

On August 22 2019 23:49 cLutZ wrote:
I don't even fit into any of your 5 voting categories. The problem with the WNBA is that basketball is not a good sport for girls. Its like gymnastics. The guys do the rings, ladies do not. It doesn't matter that it would be fair and even if girls faced girls in the rings, it still wouldn't be a good competition. The basketball is fundamentally a sport about jumping and moving side to side quickly. Football is fundamentally a sport about power and size. These are not sports that will ever make sense to put girls in. See, for example, the massive rate of ACL tears for girls bball players. They should just take all the wbball resources and put them into sports based off of Survivor's immunity challenges until they find some that hit.

On August 23 2019 10:06 ZenithM wrote:
Where is the money for female basketball players though? I'm not sure the demand for female bball is higher elsewhere.

I'm also really not in favor of the solutions based on changing the ruleset for women that you see proposed sometimes. Like lower rims. First, they themselves don't want that and it's not practical, and second I'm not convinced it would help the watchability. Just because dunks are more frequent doesn't mean they will be impressive, or that it would help getting more viewers.

On August 23 2019 01:06 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
I wonder if its the same for the knee joint? With far wider hips the femur must be at a different angle. So I wonder if the knee joint of women is fundamentally different leading to very different injury patterns than men experience.