NBA OFFSEASON 2019
- NBA Annual Awards
- Draft Pick
- Offseason player acquisitions, free agency, and signing
- WNBA stuff
- NBA Summer League
- NBA Preseason games
- General NBA news and stuff
Forum Index > Sports |
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
NBA OFFSEASON 2019 - NBA Annual Awards - Draft Pick - Offseason player acquisitions, free agency, and signing - WNBA stuff - NBA Summer League - NBA Preseason games - General NBA news and stuff | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
1. Should the season be shortened? 2. Will "load management" be more and more common? | ||
StarStruck
25339 Posts
I highly doubt they will shorten the season. The biggest question is will KD and Klay take the easy money when GS offers them 5 year max deals. I think the biggest move this off season will be where KL and AD land. | ||
echO [W]
United States1495 Posts
Cost the Warriors a championship, and inversely might keep Kawhi in Toronto. | ||
StarStruck
25339 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Lebron gets #6 JR gets #420 | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
The logo is shit. The shoe sillhouette is BBB-ish in its mediocre mehness. Some begrudgingly-given points to thinking of placing the swoosh mark there (After Kobe's Mamba Focus, that seems the logical design progression) The gluework looks shit. GA deserves a better line than this! | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 30 2019 08:53 Jerubaal wrote: Was Irving leaving the Celtics expected? Been a rumor for 3+ months. So many rumors cropping up now thow, most are likely lies | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7645 Posts
I don't even see the point of having a traditional point guard in today's NBA, pun intended. You don't need to have a player of traditional point guard size to handle the ball. There are so many players from 2-5 that can handle the ball that if a team can have a taller lineup, they should. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Some people are making a big deal out of Andrew Wiggins removing references to the Minnesota Timberwolves on his social media. If the Timberwolves can get out from under that albatross of a contract I'll be impressed. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 30 2019 11:20 andrewlt wrote: Not sure about that. Might not be able to coexist with Simmons. I don't even see the point of having a traditional point guard in today's NBA, pun intended. You don't need to have a player of traditional point guard size to handle the ball. There are so many players from 2-5 that can handle the ball that if a team can have a taller lineup, they should. The purpose of the "point guard" position in the modern NBA, is that there are a fuckton of people who are 6'2" and under who are really good at basketball. There are probably over a thousand players not in the NBA under 6'2", who, if made to be 6'6", would be instant NBA All Stars, if you increased that to 6'8", it would probably be 10k+. Thus, the purpose of "short man position" is to get an extremely skilled player. Steph Curry is an example. There is no player taller than Steph that is even close to him in skill level. If Lebron (probably the most skilled player significantly taller than Steph) was Steph's size, he would be a poor man's version of a Westbrook/Rondo hybrid. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Now Is the Time for Bradley Beal to Ask Out of Washington I just want to shine some spotlight on this unheralded player. Beal is one of those superstars-in-waiting who's in desperate need for opportunity. Wall is cancer to the Wizards, and there is no better time for Beal to leave the Wizards and get the recognition and superstar platform that he deserves and is capable of. TR | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Im starting to believe Lebron is a leprechaun. The West is the new 2000s East. fml Knicks. Dolan should sell the team. No one wants to join NYK with him | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Brogdon did have ongoing Plantar Fasciitis issues.... hmmmm Pacers get better. Bucks get worse. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 01 2019 00:14 JimmiC wrote: He.might get out anyway. Keeping him around keeps them bad but not bad enough for a top pick. I believe they are in tge tax and they already trader porter jr. I could see them look at NO haul (not that it would exactly the same. And think that might be worth it especially with a super max not playing, possibly slowed john wall. oh ya he still might get traded, but i was mentioning about the part that he would ask out, as opposed to the wizards deciding on their own to trade him. the backlash he would get if that got out. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
EDIT: or maybe the 76ers are better. they just signed Horford. LOL. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27092669/horford-leaves-celtics-join-sixers-109m | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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zev318
Canada4304 Posts
DLO to the warriors, did not see that shit coming. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Funny to see the dynasty implode like this. Barely a month ago the Warriors were the gold standard of team chemistry, impeccable front office management, great coaching on all levels, and overall tight-knit organization. Now, everyone is throwing molotov cocktails inside the house. The Iggy situation proves that owners/managers will always protect their own interest even if it derails players. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On July 01 2019 23:05 JimmiC wrote: I'm not sure about exploding, they have 4 all stars again and will be competing for the championship. I doubt it JC. Which 4 are you counting? Its only Curry, Green, and DLo until the playoffs. Curry will have his regular season star-performance, but Green will be seriously exposed. DLo is promising, and Im excited how he'll perform. But given their salary obligations, and the shock of losing this years finals, I think it's safe to say the Warriors are nowhere near favorites now (maybe just #3-#4). Houston, if they do this offseason correctly, may have a chance to the finals now. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On July 01 2019 23:38 JimmiC wrote: They are not nearly as far ahead as they once were. But they saved a huge amount of money with Russel over Durrant and iggy, so maybe their depth won't be as bad. Also durrant was not going to help them so for next year their team is better than it was. It will be interesting to see how their even more guard heavy attack works. Hou seams to be coming apart at the seams and Hardens style doesn't work in playoffs. The West is going to be very exciting Uta, Por, Den, Lakers, NO, Dal, Clippers, even the Kings should improve. Harden is ok. Their problem in the last 3-5 playoffs is not with Harden, as Harden has adjusted well enough to plug any weaknesses, but GSW. And now that GSW is weaker, they have a chance. What Houston needs is a legit interior presence (on defense) who can create and flourish (on offense) even without being fed by Harden (maybe prime Gasol, Lopez, Love, someone of the sort) and a not-CP3 point guard (like Parker, Billups). Keep the entire row of 3-and-D bombers and defenders and theyre championship level. But why the fuck are they re-signing Rivers though???!! | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
FUCK DOLAN! Again, fuck Dolan!!! Source | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Good thing he will be joining the Clippers and not the Lakers. RIP lebron. The Lakers will forever be Kobe's team, and you will be remembered a laker just as Jordan was a Wizard. EDIT: my sources = impeccable. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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Ethelis
United States2394 Posts
On July 02 2019 07:35 Twinkle Toes wrote: But why the fuck are they re-signing Rivers though???!! Dude what? Rivers for the vet min is a huge bargain. Houston still need a player who can move the needle a little bit more though. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Windhorst stated the Lakers will have to fill out their roster with 10 guys on minimum deals if they sign Leonard. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 02 2019 07:35 Twinkle Toes wrote: Show nested quote + On July 01 2019 23:38 JimmiC wrote: They are not nearly as far ahead as they once were. But they saved a huge amount of money with Russel over Durrant and iggy, so maybe their depth won't be as bad. Also durrant was not going to help them so for next year their team is better than it was. It will be interesting to see how their even more guard heavy attack works. Hou seams to be coming apart at the seams and Hardens style doesn't work in playoffs. The West is going to be very exciting Uta, Por, Den, Lakers, NO, Dal, Clippers, even the Kings should improve. Harden is ok. Their problem in the last 3-5 playoffs is not with Harden, as Harden has adjusted well enough to plug any weaknesses, but GSW. And now that GSW is weaker, they have a chance. What Houston needs is a legit interior presence (on defense) who can create and flourish (on offense) even without being fed by Harden (maybe prime Gasol, Lopez, Love, someone of the sort) and a not-CP3 point guard (like Parker, Billups). Keep the entire row of 3-and-D bombers and defenders and theyre championship level. But why the fuck are they re-signing Rivers though???!! cause he's cheap, and so is their owner. perfect fit | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
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zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 02 2019 16:11 cLutZ wrote: The NBA is just so incredibly poorly managed. Should easily be the #1 sport in the USA, instead allows free agency to be more important than development, thus turning off most people. probably because unlikely the other 3 major sports in the US, 1 player makes a huge difference. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
the fact the nba even tries to punish teams for tampering when it happens 24/7 and they do nothing to punish the actual players make it the biggest joke of a league in the existence of professional sports. that is why over half the time you cannot take the league at all seriously | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
My bold prediction is that ISO Joe Johnson ends back in the NBA for next season. He is absolutely dominating the Big 3 he could still play the last time he was in the league and no off court or locker room issues. Bring back Iso Joe! | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
does this mean there will be an announcment? its pretty hilarious how closely the Raptors//MLSE private/corporate jet is being followed. its also funny as people try to assess who is and is not on the plane. | ||
Elroi
Sweden5471 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
After looking like we would find out today, we will not. Kawhi is still undecided & is not going to finalize his decision today. Also, contrary to other reports, Kawhi is NOT interested in signing a 1 or 2 year deal. When he signs, it will be a long term contract. source | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
On July 06 2019 05:38 Elroi wrote: If Kawhi signs with the lakers it would be pure bs. It simply demeans the whole competition for me that an organization can make literally everything wrong and sign three superstar mercenaries. there should be rules against that. It is really hard because you are talking about guys with 8 years service not being able to work where they want to work. This is why they created the super max in an effort to reward people into staying instead of not allow it. I get what you are saying in regards to the fairness of the league and so on. But it is hard to do while still treating the players like people. I do think they should stop this need to have 10 years of service to get max money since that means the earliest it could happen in 29-30 and then a player is guaranteed to be paid the most when they are not the best version of them. If he does go to the Lakers I do think it will be interesting to see how they do. They would have 3 players with injury concerns 2 pretty major. So if all 3 of those play 60 games, How will that team do with 2 stars, kuzma and minimum paid players? They also might not have 3 healthy guys for the playoffs. I would take the field vs the Lakers even with Kawhi, I don't think they would be as strong compared to the rest of the league as the GSW were or the Heatles. | ||
Elroi
Sweden5471 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
But I think the best thing would be to do away with the max. There is no reason that the 50th best player and best player should make the same money. In their primes LBJ and Durrant should have been making 50+ million a year, all the sudden you can't put AD/LBJ and Kawhi on the same team because they are all worth double the max. | ||
Elroi
Sweden5471 Posts
Off topic: is there a reason why you keep writing Durant's name with two r's? I've been wanting to ask you that for a year now I think. | ||
andrewlt
United States7645 Posts
On July 01 2019 20:34 Twinkle Toes wrote: OOOooookkk... Funny to see the dynasty implode like this. Barely a month ago the Warriors were the gold standard of team chemistry, impeccable front office management, great coaching on all levels, and overall tight-knit organization. Now, everyone is throwing molotov cocktails inside the house. The Iggy situation proves that owners/managers will always protect their own interest even if it derails players. The coaching is still good. The front office hasn’t been great ever since jerry west went to the clippers. The clippers, on the other hand, have been good. They made the playoffs while having two max slots open and a bunch of promising young players in the mix. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Similarly, the Raptors getting out from under the Derozan contract was a stroke of brilliance whether or not Kawhi re-signs. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
On July 06 2019 07:19 Elroi wrote: You're not wrong Jimmi. Off topic: is there a reason why you keep writing Durant's name with two r's? I've been wanting to ask you that for a year now I think. Quick answer is because I suck! For some reason whether it is pronouncing or spelling a name if I get it wrong the first time I get it wrong forever after. And then even after it is pointed out it is really hard for me to change to the correct one. I'll work on Durant now, but expect many failures! | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
If Leonard waits until after the 6th I think the Lakers can not continue to offer the same amount of cash they are offering right now. So if Leonard continues to delay the decision he is probably not going to the Lakers. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 06 2019 07:04 JimmiC wrote: I think that is basically the players argument. That drafting them takes away all their choice on where they want to play and therefor they can get choice at the 8 year mark. Perhaps furthering the luxury tax would help. But I think the best thing would be to do away with the max. There is no reason that the 50th best player and best player should make the same money. In their primes LBJ and Durrant should have been making 50+ million a year, all the sudden you can't put AD/LBJ and Kawhi on the same team because they are all worth double the max. its a good idea to say no max salary, but u know who would reject that idea the quickest? the NBAPA. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
Wait actually it might be the owners would not like it since they maybe don't want to pay durant 50 million a year. Removing the max might not lower the 50th guy's salary much. I'm not sure. | ||
JimmiC
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Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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zev318
Canada4304 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27128448/lakers-delay-ad-trade-kawhi and then the AD/Pelicans/Lakers transaction resulted in a bunch of other moves by other teams. Some guy on reddit listed them all. If any of these teams and players gets cold feet or perhaps learned something that changed their minds this is a great excuse to renege on a deal. LOL. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Kawhi needs to sign with the Lakers by tomorrow, or else deal is off because of AD/NO situation, On July 06 2019 07:19 Elroi wrote: You're not wrong Jimmi. Off topic: is there a reason why you keep writing Durant's name with two r's? I've been wanting to ask you that for a year now I think. JimmiC does this a lot, and I pmed him about it as well. Some misspelling are so funny I think JC does it intentionally as a running joke to smoke out spelling nazis here lol. Kawhi + PG13 to LA confirmed!!! BOOM!!! | ||
virpi
Germany3598 Posts
Holy hell. Clippers going all in? | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
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BlackJack
United States9272 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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rabidch
United States20286 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On July 06 2019 18:20 rabidch wrote: that PG trade has some consequences for russell westbrook. i dont think okc will be able to build a contending roster around him given history. he may be convinced to be traded for assets WB is not and never was a superstar! This season will be a rude awakening to him! | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
LAC feels like Bulls-lite. If everyone stays healthy, LAC could seriously win 2-3 together, at least! Leonard = Jordan-lite George = Pippen-lite Williams = better shooter Harper Beverly = Kerr with rabies and adrenaline overdose Zubac = Longleyish 2.0 | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On July 05 2019 06:06 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i guess Cris Carter is the media liaison for Kawhi Leonard. https://twitter.com/criscarter80/status/1146841368741982209 Welp, seems like your boy Cris Carter was made the barking fool by Kawhi and his group to confuse the media while he was made ignorant of the real negotiations. But damb that KD-Kawhi duo would have been icy fire. On that note, why KD why? I get it why not NYK because fuck Dolan, But why NJ? And why with Keyeri3? I guess its a birds and feathers things of that sort.... | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On July 06 2019 17:19 Jerubaal wrote: Question: Would there be a downside to just trading away all of your draft picks and just working through free agency/trades? You would have virtually no underpaid players aside from elite Max players. So unless you consistently sign or trade for the top guys each time, you will suck. Even if you do its going to hit your wallet hard, and the team will have little to no depth. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
Now the question is will the raps trade kyle, gasol and serge? Also kd and kyrie went to brooklyn not NJ. | ||
andrewlt
United States7645 Posts
Kawhi causing earthquakes with his signing. I should've checked espn when my bed started shaking. | ||
KOFgokuon
United States14883 Posts
On July 06 2019 23:27 JimmiC wrote: Man that is crazy! The LA vs LA battles will be intense but I got the clips. Now the question is will the raps trade kyle, gasol and serge? Also kd and kyrie went to brooklyn not NJ. I believe they all expire after this year so IMO he masai either flips them for assets or just let’s them expire and rebuilds around siakim and OG. They need to hit in the draft bc once those two hit their extensions cap space disappears and next years free agent class is headlined by players already on their roster. Pretty barren | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
Also Boogie and Rondo signed with the Lakers. I think still think Clips are the best team in LA. California is stacked! (kings are not even that bad.) | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 07 2019 03:19 KOFgokuon wrote: Show nested quote + On July 06 2019 23:27 JimmiC wrote: Man that is crazy! The LA vs LA battles will be intense but I got the clips. Now the question is will the raps trade kyle, gasol and serge? Also kd and kyrie went to brooklyn not NJ. I believe they all expire after this year so IMO he masai either flips them for assets or just let’s them expire and rebuilds around siakim and OG. They need to hit in the draft bc once those two hit their extensions cap space disappears and next years free agent class is headlined by players already on their roster. Pretty barren its good that we got such a big free agency this year, cause next year OOF, gonna be boring as fuck. only big name is anthony davis. imagine the raptors bringing back demar next summer lol | ||
Vindicare605
United States15716 Posts
On July 07 2019 04:49 JimmiC wrote: I hope flips them for assets. Any playoff team would love to have them on expiring deals. We should be able to recoup a lot for them. Also Boogie and Rondo signed with the Lakers. I think still think Clips are the best team in LA. California is stacked! (kings are not even that bad.) As an objective Lakers fan I think the Clippers have the better squad also, if for no other reason than their depth is used to playing together. The size of the Lakers though has me excited. With McGee, Cousins and Davis we have quite the 3 man front court rotation, which means we can slide Lebron back to the 3 instead of giving him minutes at the 4 (which he can still play.) Lack of perimiter depth is still a problem, but we're definitely a lot better off this season than we were last season, provided of course that these dudes stay healthy. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On July 06 2019 23:27 JimmiC wrote: Man that is crazy! The LA vs LA battles will be intense but I got the clips. Now the question is will the raps trade kyle, gasol and serge? Also kd and kyrie went to brooklyn not NJ. brainfartlol, I thought it was 2014. On July 07 2019 11:34 Vindicare605 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 07 2019 04:49 JimmiC wrote: I hope flips them for assets. Any playoff team would love to have them on expiring deals. We should be able to recoup a lot for them. Also Boogie and Rondo signed with the Lakers. I think still think Clips are the best team in LA. California is stacked! (kings are not even that bad.) As an objective Lakers fan I think the Clippers have the better squad also, if for no other reason than their depth is used to playing together. The size of the Lakers though has me excited. With McGee, Cousins and Davis we have quite the 3 man front court rotation, which means we can slide Lebron back to the 3 instead of giving him minutes at the 4 (which he can still play.) Lack of perimiter depth is still a problem, but we're definitely a lot better off this season than we were last season, provided of course that these dudes stay healthy. The Lakers problem is not health nor perimeter depth, but its simply + Show Spoiler + Lebron ok ok | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Picking up Danny Green was a good move by the Lakers. On July 06 2019 22:27 Twinkle Toes wrote: Show nested quote + On July 05 2019 06:06 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i guess Cris Carter is the media liaison for Kawhi Leonard. https://twitter.com/criscarter80/status/1146841368741982209 Welp, seems like your boy Cris Carter was made the barking fool by Kawhi the tweet you referenced in your post turned out to be correct. Carter is not "my boy" he is Kawhi's media liaison as i stated. Check my skepticism of Carter's analysis of Irving early in the year. Outside of internal Kawhi Leonard issues, Carter's reliability is ok but not great. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
On July 07 2019 11:34 Vindicare605 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 07 2019 04:49 JimmiC wrote: I hope flips them for assets. Any playoff team would love to have them on expiring deals. We should be able to recoup a lot for them. Also Boogie and Rondo signed with the Lakers. I think still think Clips are the best team in LA. California is stacked! (kings are not even that bad.) As an objective Lakers fan I think the Clippers have the better squad also, if for no other reason than their depth is used to playing together. The size of the Lakers though has me excited. With McGee, Cousins and Davis we have quite the 3 man front court rotation, which means we can slide Lebron back to the 3 instead of giving him minutes at the 4 (which he can still play.) Lack of perimiter depth is still a problem, but we're definitely a lot better off this season than we were last season, provided of course that these dudes stay healthy. It will be interesting to see no doubt. I'm not sure that they will have the speed to say with the GSW, Port, Clips and Den if they go 3 big (Cousins, AD, LBJ) but it will be interesting to see if they can. It would be kind of fun to see if it works. I think at this Stage LBJ is better at the 4 because he is so massive and not quite as quick. I also think the Clippers won't have the resting players problems that the lakers will have because as you mentioned their depth is much better. Exciting times ahead! | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
twitter.com its nice to see Delon Wright find a permanent home. Mavs and Grizzlies execute a sign and trade to give Wright a 3 year deal with Dallas. https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2019/7/7/20684798/nba-free-agency-2019-mavericks-sign-and-trade-grizzlies-rfa-delon-wright If Delon can stay healthy he can be worth more than the deal Dallas gave him. He had 2 right shoulder separations after surprisingly minimal physical contact. Before that, his 1st ever shoulder separation was the result of a brutal collision. He shoots with his right hand making recovery from shoulder separations a bit more difficult. Delon Wright was a really solid citizen for the Raptors. He kept his mouth shut and didn't whine when a lot of his minutes ended up going to Fred VanVleet. I'd say almost all of the Raptors fan base is pulling for Delon. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-sp-magic-fultz-shooting-20190706-lc45mzp3yfbsrez32k4v2weyhy-story.html its cool to see Orlando give Fultz some privacy. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 08 2019 03:07 cLutZ wrote: The size of the Lakers makes me more convinced thier front office is dumb as rocks. LeBron is a 4 now defensively, full stop. AD is a 5. You can't play both+ Kuzma + another of Cousins/Javale. That team can't play defense. ? someone's gotta give AD a break, i dont think they signed cousins/mcgee to play starter minutes. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On July 08 2019 10:58 zev318 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 08 2019 03:07 cLutZ wrote: The size of the Lakers makes me more convinced thier front office is dumb as rocks. LeBron is a 4 now defensively, full stop. AD is a 5. You can't play both+ Kuzma + another of Cousins/Javale. That team can't play defense. ? someone's gotta give AD a break, i dont think they signed cousins/mcgee to play starter minutes. And? They are thin elsewhere, why both? If one gets hurt that is a midseason acquisition (also Lebron should be playing some minutes at the 5 defensively). Danny Green was, IMO, a perfect pickup, but one I thought they were going to try to make before they cleared out the $32 mil for a max guy. He makes me have slightly more faith, but I think their total package of pickups is very weird outside of Green. Obviously its a hard job to fill in around Lebron/AD/Kuzma because they all want to play frontcourt, and only one plays great defense consistently now, but the current moves are confusing aside from Danny Green. KCP is not a good fit as well. They prolly need to sign a bunch of PGs to "back up" Cook who certainly shouldn't be a starter for a playoff team. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Against an elite defensive playoff team the offense could be stalled quite a bit. Seems like the Clippers' offense will rely a lot on coaching and good X and Os, but I don't trust that as much in the playoffs as I do in the regular season. On July 08 2019 19:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote: One issue that will make GS worse in next year's playoffs that i've not seen brought up: Klay won't be as good. What Klay Thompson did in the 2019 playoffs is not repeatable. I've never seen a long distance bomber hit so many very well defended 3s. I can't see Klay ever doing that again. Interesting. That didn't feel too far off from regular Klay. He's one of the few guys I'm really not surprised to see hit a string of highly contested 3s :D. He did play better than I expected, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that it was a one-time event. The guy catches fire. | ||
Vindicare605
United States15716 Posts
On July 08 2019 03:07 cLutZ wrote: The size of the Lakers makes me more convinced thier front office is dumb as rocks. LeBron is a 4 now defensively, full stop. AD is a 5. You can't play both+ Kuzma + another of Cousins/Javale. That team can't play defense. Lebron and AD are both versatile enough to guard at least 3 positions and are both excellent help defenders. Lebron at the 3 and AD at the 4 is a very playable line up defensively. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
On July 08 2019 16:12 Jerubaal wrote: So you think GS is out of title contention this year? I think GS will be in contention. Still tons of talent and giant chips on their shoulders. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 08 2019 14:31 cLutZ wrote: Show nested quote + On July 08 2019 10:58 zev318 wrote: On July 08 2019 03:07 cLutZ wrote: The size of the Lakers makes me more convinced thier front office is dumb as rocks. LeBron is a 4 now defensively, full stop. AD is a 5. You can't play both+ Kuzma + another of Cousins/Javale. That team can't play defense. ? someone's gotta give AD a break, i dont think they signed cousins/mcgee to play starter minutes. And? They are thin elsewhere, why both? If one gets hurt that is a midseason acquisition (also Lebron should be playing some minutes at the 5 defensively). Danny Green was, IMO, a perfect pickup, but one I thought they were going to try to make before they cleared out the $32 mil for a max guy. He makes me have slightly more faith, but I think their total package of pickups is very weird outside of Green. Obviously its a hard job to fill in around Lebron/AD/Kuzma because they all want to play frontcourt, and only one plays great defense consistently now, but the current moves are confusing aside from Danny Green. KCP is not a good fit as well. They prolly need to sign a bunch of PGs to "back up" Cook who certainly shouldn't be a starter for a playoff team. i think having 3 bigs is about right. there will be times where u will play 2 at the same time. they had no options after choosing to wait for kawhi, they just signed whoever they could. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
DRuss makes absolutely no sense in that team, that's a nice FO move but they would probably trade him again at some point. Opponents would relish him stealing shots from Curry or Thompson. On July 08 2019 14:31 cLutZ wrote: They prolly need to sign a bunch of PGs to "back up" Cook who certainly shouldn't be a starter for a playoff team. I think the Lakers hope Caruso becomes a 3&D kind of guard to pair with Lebron. He has shown potential in that role. He's average-to-plus defensively, doesn't shoot a lot but shoots alright. He would defend 1s but he would not be the one making shit happen in offense. If JJR thinks Satoransky is starter caliber I don't think Caruso being starter caliber is a big stretch . | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 08 2019 22:55 ZenithM wrote: DRuss makes absolutely no sense in that team, that's a nice FO move but they would probably trade him again at some point. Opponents would relish him stealing shots from Curry or Thompson. i think the earliest they are permitted to trade him is mid-December. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 08 2019 23:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Show nested quote + On July 08 2019 22:55 ZenithM wrote: DRuss makes absolutely no sense in that team, that's a nice FO move but they would probably trade him again at some point. Opponents would relish him stealing shots from Curry or Thompson. i think the earliest they are permitted to trade him is mid-December. i dont think they would trade him anyways until klay is closer to coming back. i honestly dont see a DLO trade until next summer at the earliest, unless someone blow the warriors socks off with an offer at the deadline. On July 08 2019 22:55 ZenithM wrote: Depends what GS gets for Russell, I guess. But right now for me they're not contenders anymore. A WCF contender maybe but they would stop there. DRuss makes absolutely no sense in that team, that's a nice FO move but they would probably trade him again at some point. Opponents would relish him stealing shots from Curry or Thompson. Show nested quote + On July 08 2019 14:31 cLutZ wrote: They prolly need to sign a bunch of PGs to "back up" Cook who certainly shouldn't be a starter for a playoff team. I think the Lakers hope Caruso becomes a 3&D kind of guard to pair with Lebron. He has shown potential in that role. He's average-to-plus defensively, doesn't shoot a lot but shoots alright. He would defend 1s but he would not be the one making shit happen in offense. If JJR thinks Satoransky is starter caliber I don't think Caruso being starter caliber is a big stretch . no need to discuss whether caruso or cook is a starter or not, cause rondo is gonna start | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
twitter.com I don't buy OKC's medical staff PR people saying Paul George was doing no additional damage to his shoulder by playing with a partially torn rotator cuff for months. The reason I do not buy it is it got to the point where George could not lift his arm over his head. https://www.12up.com/posts/6346824-video-tracy-mcgrady-thinks-paul-george-has-a-torn-labrum Had the pain and flexibility stayed the same or improved their "no additional damage" story would make more sense. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 09 2019 02:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: OKC picked up another 1st rounder and saved a bunch of salary and luxury tax money. twitter.com I don't buy OKC's medical staff PR people saying Paul George was doing no additional damage to his shoulder by playing with a partially torn rotator cuff for months. The reason I do not buy it is it got to the point where George could not lift his arm over his head. https://www.12up.com/posts/6346824-video-tracy-mcgrady-thinks-paul-george-has-a-torn-labrum Had the pain and flexibility stayed the same or improved their "no additional damage" story would make more sense. 1st rounders sounds great and all, but the clippers and the nuggets first rounders are gonna be like 20+, if nothing crazy happens injuries wise. what do picks in the 20s (at best high teens) get you? the miami picks might be ok, but that's in 2021 and 2023 (big protection on this one) and miami could improve by then, making the pick not so great. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Patrick Mccaw goes for his 4th consecutive NBA title this year as he re-signs with the Raptors. Siakam, Anunoby, VanVleet, Stanley Johnson, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, and Patrick Mccaw are all under 26. They should all improve. The question is... how much? Powell just turned 26. His play making should continue to improve; most NBA-ers continue to evolve as playmakers at age 26 and beyond. Nick Nurse will give Powell lots of room to grow as Nurse did with Siakam last year. For the first time in his career Kyle Lowry won't be harping for maximum regular season minutes. This will give expanded floor general type responsibilities to other players like VanVleet, Powell, Mccaw, and Siakam. Casual Raptors fans are about to find out the hard way that Kyle Lowry is a really fucking damn smart quarterback for the offense. Masai Ujiri is going to make Nick Nurse earn his pay cheque this year! | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 09 2019 00:45 zev318 wrote: no need to discuss whether caruso or cook is a starter or not, cause rondo is gonna start ya, that is what i thought as well. On July 09 2019 03:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote: is the Lakers starting 5 Rondo//Green//James//Kuzma//Davis ? However, there is talk that it'll be a James/Green backcourt from a pretty reliable source. https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-lakers-intend-to-start-le-bron-james-at-point-guard-184422305.html | ||
Vindicare605
United States15716 Posts
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1148274909455380483 Kyle Korver has been waived by the Suns, any idea where he should be going? | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On July 09 2019 00:45 zev318 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 08 2019 23:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote: On July 08 2019 22:55 ZenithM wrote: DRuss makes absolutely no sense in that team, that's a nice FO move but they would probably trade him again at some point. Opponents would relish him stealing shots from Curry or Thompson. i think the earliest they are permitted to trade him is mid-December. i dont think they would trade him anyways until klay is closer to coming back. i honestly dont see a DLO trade until next summer at the earliest, unless someone blow the warriors socks off with an offer at the deadline. Show nested quote + On July 08 2019 22:55 ZenithM wrote: Depends what GS gets for Russell, I guess. But right now for me they're not contenders anymore. A WCF contender maybe but they would stop there. DRuss makes absolutely no sense in that team, that's a nice FO move but they would probably trade him again at some point. Opponents would relish him stealing shots from Curry or Thompson. On July 08 2019 14:31 cLutZ wrote: They prolly need to sign a bunch of PGs to "back up" Cook who certainly shouldn't be a starter for a playoff team. I think the Lakers hope Caruso becomes a 3&D kind of guard to pair with Lebron. He has shown potential in that role. He's average-to-plus defensively, doesn't shoot a lot but shoots alright. He would defend 1s but he would not be the one making shit happen in offense. If JJR thinks Satoransky is starter caliber I don't think Caruso being starter caliber is a big stretch . no need to discuss whether caruso or cook is a starter or not, cause rondo is gonna start Rondo will start just because it's a big ego/respect issue in the NBA unless the player explicitly accept not starting (like Iguodala or Lou Will). I guess what I was arguing that the Lakers could give a significant amount of minutes to Caruso. I guess this is pointless now because they signed Bradley, likely to fill that 3&D guard position besides Lebron, which they said will start at Point Guard (which isn't a real change anyway, he will certainly not be guarding the opposing PG). | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 09 2019 21:58 ZenithM wrote: Show nested quote + On July 09 2019 00:45 zev318 wrote: On July 08 2019 23:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote: On July 08 2019 22:55 ZenithM wrote: DRuss makes absolutely no sense in that team, that's a nice FO move but they would probably trade him again at some point. Opponents would relish him stealing shots from Curry or Thompson. i think the earliest they are permitted to trade him is mid-December. i dont think they would trade him anyways until klay is closer to coming back. i honestly dont see a DLO trade until next summer at the earliest, unless someone blow the warriors socks off with an offer at the deadline. On July 08 2019 22:55 ZenithM wrote: Depends what GS gets for Russell, I guess. But right now for me they're not contenders anymore. A WCF contender maybe but they would stop there. DRuss makes absolutely no sense in that team, that's a nice FO move but they would probably trade him again at some point. Opponents would relish him stealing shots from Curry or Thompson. On July 08 2019 14:31 cLutZ wrote: They prolly need to sign a bunch of PGs to "back up" Cook who certainly shouldn't be a starter for a playoff team. I think the Lakers hope Caruso becomes a 3&D kind of guard to pair with Lebron. He has shown potential in that role. He's average-to-plus defensively, doesn't shoot a lot but shoots alright. He would defend 1s but he would not be the one making shit happen in offense. If JJR thinks Satoransky is starter caliber I don't think Caruso being starter caliber is a big stretch . no need to discuss whether caruso or cook is a starter or not, cause rondo is gonna start Rondo will start just because it's a big ego/respect issue in the NBA unless the player explicitly accept not starting (like Iguodala or Lou Will). I guess what I was arguing that the Lakers could give a significant amount of minutes to Caruso. I guess this is pointless now because they signed Bradley, likely to fill that 3&D guard position besides Lebron, which they said will start at Point Guard (which isn't a real change anyway, he will certainly not be guarding the opposing PG). Rajon Rondo had the worst +/- on the Lakers by a giant margin. When you are a -245 and the next worst guy is a -155... you were very bad. He had to stink up every line up he was on. Vogel will not hesitate to stick Rondo on the bench for extended periods. Initially, I thought the Lakers would start Rondo. After doing a bit of digging.. I think Rondo will have to earn every minute he gets. If he falters even slightly he'll become the 10th man faster than you can say ESPN Real Plus-Minus. Source | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 09 2019 23:41 JimmiC wrote: They singed him hoping to get playoff rondo not regular season rondo. ya that's a good point. On July 09 2019 23:41 JimmiC wrote: When he is engaged, as recently as 2 years ago with NO in the Playoffs he was pretty darn good. That being said there is a reason why true professionals like like Ray Allen hated him. I wouldn't want him, but the Lakers don't have a lot of options. my guess is Vogel will have an open in-team competition between Cook, Bradley, and Rondo. Whoever plays best runs the offense in LBJ's absence and gets those extra minutes. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
Then there will also be all the released veterans after the trade deadlines and where they all end up. TO will possibly be looking to trade Serge, Gasol and Lowry. But do these teams have any assets left that TO would want if they are embarking on a "reload". For people who like the team building aspect it will be a interesting season. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
The Clippers don't even have their own building. The Raptors build 100 floor condos. | ||
Vindicare605
United States15716 Posts
AT ALL. With this line up, he needs to run the point off the bench. | ||
rabidch
United States20286 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
" on to the next. .. there is no time to go out and cry ... i've lost no sleep... not disappointed and its on to what is next.. i'm telling Raptor fans not to lose 1 second of sleep. we are going to be just fine... i think our team is set up well". In this clip when Ujiri says .. " i think he was ... Kawhi was". He is answering if he felt communications were honest and up front during the Leonard FA negotiations. Ujiri is throwing someone in Kawhi's negotiating team under the bus. His name probably starts with the letter "D" . | ||
Elroi
Sweden5471 Posts
I think Kawhi is a strange dude. I don't understand the psychology of a guy forcing his way out of San Antonio who has nurtured him, turned him into a star and a franchise player, then winning in a spectacular fashion with a new team that played good, fun basketball in an organization where everyone seems to enjoy themselves. Just to leave it all behind. He is not a normal dude emotionally, that guy. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 10 2019 18:01 Elroi wrote: I think Kawhi is a strange dude. I don't understand the psychology of a guy forcing his way out of San Antonio who has nurtured him, turned him into a star and a franchise player, then winning in a spectacular fashion with a new team that played good, fun basketball in an organization where everyone seems to enjoy themselves. Just to leave it all behind. He is not a normal dude emotionally, that guy. There is a big difference between the culture in Southern California and Toronto, Canada. California also produces a massive # of baseball players. Even when the Toronto BLue Jays were teh best run organization in Major League Baseball almost every California kid couldn't wait to GTFO. You know who stuck around? Guys from places like New York and Michigan. Kawhi ain't the only California beach bum that doesn't like Toronto. The people from the southern US are really easy to spot in January man.. You can see it in their eyes... they all look like fish out of water. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 10 2019 20:43 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Turns out.. after all this bargaining and conniving ... Kawhi only guaranteed the Clippers 2 years. ouch. Show nested quote + On July 10 2019 18:01 Elroi wrote: I think Kawhi is a strange dude. I don't understand the psychology of a guy forcing his way out of San Antonio who has nurtured him, turned him into a star and a franchise player, then winning in a spectacular fashion with a new team that played good, fun basketball in an organization where everyone seems to enjoy themselves. Just to leave it all behind. He is not a normal dude emotionally, that guy. There is a big difference between the culture in Southern California and Toronto, Canada. California also produces a massive # of baseball players. Even when the Toronto BLue Jays were teh best run organization in Major League Baseball almost every California kid couldn't wait to GTFO. You know who stuck around? Guys from places like New York and Michigan. Kawhi ain't the only California beach bum that doesn't like Toronto. The people from the southern US are really easy to spot in January man.. You can see it in their eyes... they all look like fish out of water. 2 years was always a real possibility, not that he's not confident of it working out in LA, but for him to earn more money after he hits 10 years of service. he would've signed 4 year if he wanted to bet against himself. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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HelpMeGetBetter
United States759 Posts
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zev318
Canada4304 Posts
i dont think this makes houston any better | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
ESTBROOK T+ Show Spoiler + O THE F+ Show Spoiler + UCKING HOUSTON ROCKETS!!! | ||
BlackJack
United States9272 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7645 Posts
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nVme
952 Posts
then i find out he got traded to okc 😂 bet he didn’t see it coming either | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
I dont get it. Obviously GMs havent caught up to the cLutzy rules of point guard contracts (aka never pay them) because Kemba got $$, Kyrie got paid, DLo got paid. But now, all the sudden these contracts are toxic and need to be moved? Obviously I agree, but why have some orgs come around to my position? Will Boston be giving away first round picks to off Kemba in 12 months (probably IMO)? | ||
rabidch
United States20286 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 12 2019 15:19 cLutZ wrote: I don't understand Houston's plan. At least CP3 can shoot (even though I have always kind of thought he sucked). I dont get it. Obviously GMs havent caught up to the cLutzy rules of point guard contracts (aka never pay them) because Kemba got $$, Kyrie got paid, DLo got paid. But now, all the sudden these contracts are toxic and need to be moved? Obviously I agree, but why have some orgs come around to my position? Will Boston be giving away first round picks to off Kemba in 12 months (probably IMO)? Paying for counting stats on a PG is a bad move. Curry's deal and Lowry's deal is/was well worth it because of all the stuff they do for their team mates that never shows up in their own personal stats. Its hilarious looking back at all those "Lowry + Bench" lineups with phenomenal net ratings. Then to see how so many of Lowry's team mates turned into zilch as soon as they left. Makes Masai look like a fucking genius. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
At least CP3 can shoot (even though I have always kind of thought he sucked) You meant "sucked" as in "right now he sucks" or that CP3 always sucked? | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On July 13 2019 15:27 ZenithM wrote: You meant "sucked" as in "right now he sucks" or that CP3 always sucked? I mean that, whatever tier most people had CP3 in during his career, I always ranked him 1.5 to 2.5 tiers below that. I am a CP3 anti-Stan. Always have been. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Can Harden and Westbrook make it work? They can't Longer version | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
To add to this, I dont know whether this is good or bad, Harden is saying he and Westbrook play well together. What bizarro timeline is this!!! | ||
Elroi
Sweden5471 Posts
On July 13 2019 16:01 cLutZ wrote: Show nested quote + On July 13 2019 15:27 ZenithM wrote: At least CP3 can shoot (even though I have always kind of thought he sucked) You meant "sucked" as in "right now he sucks" or that CP3 always sucked? I mean that, whatever tier most people had CP3 in during his career, I always ranked him 1.5 to 2.5 tiers below that. I am a CP3 anti-Stan. Always have been. Why? I can understand that people don't like CP3's personality. But I think he's always been an incredibly skilled basketball player. He is not like Russ where he obviously has flaws and you can disagree about how good he really is all things considered. CP3 to me seems to just be an all around incredible player. Sure, recently he has fallen off because of age, but if you look at his earlier career. | ||
rabidch
United States20286 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 15 2019 13:46 rabidch wrote: the biggest knock against cp3 is hed get injured a lot in the playoffs. The level of physical intensity integral to his game leads to injuries. If he were more risk averse then he wouldn't be as good. Kyle Lowry has the same issue. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On July 15 2019 13:46 rabidch wrote: the biggest knock against cp3 is hed get injured a lot in the playoffs. Not my critique, which would be that his playstyle is based around tactics that are less effective in the playoffs. And thereby actually less effective under the actual rules of basketball. Some other Warrior astutely observed this either this year or last year about Steph and said, to paraphrase, "he gets roughed up all game in the playoffs so he thinks he can be rough also, but then the refs call him for doing the exact same thing." Cp3's "elite defense" was always about committing lots of fouls that he didn't get called for, flopping successfully, and complaining. His offense was often quite effective, but significantly diminished in the playoffs (as is true for basically every player under 6'3". For me this was true in his near MVP season (I think 2008 IIRC), his Clippers years, and now. The only true path is with lanky 2-way players that either don't rely on refs (Duncan), or players beastly enough to score with "Shaq Rules", aka we let you commit offensive fouls but don't call minor hacks on the defense (Lebron). I'm not saying you shouldn't draw fouls, Kawhii drew a ton of fouls this postseason. I'm a Bulls fan, I saw this with DRose (who is less historically good, but also less of a fraud than CP3) who became an MVP by taking contact and drawing lots of fouls. But that is also risky, and guys like Harden have also seen troubles in the playoffs if you rely on it. KD is another example where he had to change his game when his "ripthrough" was no longer getting called. KD was good enough that I think he actually got better after he stopped relying on that dumb crutch. One day, the NBA may be reffed in a manner wherein people will look back at CP3 and say, "ahh he was ahead of his time" and imagine he would be an all time great player because the way the game fits him perfectly. But those people will also be confused about the 5'8" (the median height of dudes) who is even more skilled than CP3 ever was (because it is highly likely the most skilled basketball player in the world is 5'8" and not in the NBA because height is a gatekeeper) that is running around exploiting those refs at even greater levels than CP3 could ever have imagined. On July 15 2019 08:09 Elroi wrote: Show nested quote + On July 13 2019 16:01 cLutZ wrote: On July 13 2019 15:27 ZenithM wrote: At least CP3 can shoot (even though I have always kind of thought he sucked) You meant "sucked" as in "right now he sucks" or that CP3 always sucked? I mean that, whatever tier most people had CP3 in during his career, I always ranked him 1.5 to 2.5 tiers below that. I am a CP3 anti-Stan. Always have been. Why? I can understand that people don't like CP3's personality. But I think he's always been an incredibly skilled basketball player. He is not like Russ where he obviously has flaws and you can disagree about how good he really is all things considered. CP3 to me seems to just be an all around incredible player. Sure, recently he has fallen off because of age, but if you look at his earlier career. He's always been very skilled. Probably at many points the most skilled player in the NBA. Skill is not a determining factor of eliteness though. In the NBA all skill should be adjusted for height and athleticism, and also adjusted for refereeing changes when refs & players actually care. In all those areas he is consistently adjusted downward. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On July 12 2019 10:07 JimmiC wrote: I have no idea how it will Chris Paul and Harden did not get along because both wanted the ball. Lets now add the guy who wants the ball even more than them two and likes to shoot more. truth. quite possibly... the dumbest shit but i mean... they weren't going anywhere with their current lineup regardless. personally i think they should have sold off all their assets and do a massive rebuild. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On July 16 2019 08:24 Jerubaal wrote: Do you think CP3 would have done better in another era? How do you think he would have performed if he had been plugged into the Nash Suns? Maybe wayyy back in the Jerry West era when he would have been the most athletic 1 by far and physical defenses hadn't been developed. But his draft year was right around the time they made the rule changes that let Point Guards be as relevant as they are now. Nash & CP3 were the first two of the new era to exploit the no handcheck rule. Since then its been a PG explosion from Steph to Same to Kyrie to Kemba. This is no mistake, its a result of the rule changes. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Alright, maybe the shorter version of this is "CP3 was way better than Westbrook" :D. On July 16 2019 10:36 cLutZ wrote: Show nested quote + On July 16 2019 08:24 Jerubaal wrote: Do you think CP3 would have done better in another era? How do you think he would have performed if he had been plugged into the Nash Suns? Maybe wayyy back in the Jerry West era when he would have been the most athletic 1 by far and physical defenses hadn't been developed. But his draft year was right around the time they made the rule changes that let Point Guards be as relevant as they are now. Nash & CP3 were the first two of the new era to exploit the no handcheck rule. Since then its been a PG explosion from Steph to Same to Kyrie to Kemba. This is no mistake, its a result of the rule changes. On one hand yes, point guards are a lot more productive nowadays than before, but on the other hand superstar guards/wings still dominate the game. The last point guard to win a FMVP is Parker in 2007. The only PG that can pretend to a superstar status and MVP contention nowadays is Curry. Star point guards are a kind of fast food for offenses. You know you'll get a quick decent shot if you put one in a pick&roll. He will get a lot of points and assists. You don't really know if it will help you get closer to a chip though. I think a non-negligible part of that is that PGs are almost all negatives in defense (sometimes huge negatives), those tall guards/wings are not. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
If anything goes sideways with either LA team they traded away a truckload of players for Leonard who can leave in two years and Anthony Davis who can leave after one year. EDIT: Masai Ujiri//the Raptors trading away only one 1st rounder for one year of Leonard is looking better all the time. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States15716 Posts
On July 16 2019 22:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote: EDIT: Masai Ujiri//the Raptors trading away only one 1st rounder for one year of Leonard is looking better all the time. That had as much to do with the Spurs spiting the Lakers as anything else. We offered plenty for him I'm sure and they just gave us the finger. I see you Spurs. Gonna enjoy trashing on you all during your rebuild. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 16 2019 22:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote: I figured the Lakers had a behind-the-scenes, handshake deal with Anthony Davis when they traded for him. I thought AD had probably agreed to sign a long term deal with the Lakers. NOPE. He can leave in a year. He intends to test the FA market. If anything goes sideways with either LA team they traded away a truckload of players for Leonard who can leave in two years and Anthony Davis who can leave after one year. EDIT: Masai Ujiri//the Raptors trading away only one 1st rounder for one year of Leonard is looking better all the time. at the end of the day, that's not all they traded away for leonard and they've lost everything they got from that trade. hopefully they are able to sign some free agents next summer with all that cap space, but its shaping up to a really weak class. unless something catastrophic happens, AD is not leaving the lakers i would say that lowry resigns for a far lower salary. would they max out siakam? is he worth it? he's basically going to be #1 option this year | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
I could see them possibly trading lowry Gasol and ibaka near thr deadline. But I think you are right on macing siakam. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 18 2019 01:30 zev318 wrote: at the end of the day, that's not all they traded away for leonard and they've lost everything they got from that trade. Getting out from under Derozan's deal was a master stroke of brilliance. It was a positive. Norm Powell can hit 3s and he is a better defender than Derozan. Powell is as good if not better of a playoff player than Derozan. I think he is better. I felt sad seeing Derozan leave. He is a great person. Feels aside, Derozan took 45 3s all of last year. He was a +40 on a 48 win team that was a +140. That;s bad. He really benefited from playing with Lowry. It is almost impossible to compete at the top of the league or even win a playoff series for that matter.... with a starting guard that can't shoot 3s. Had this been 1999 and the team is only a few years old ... you keep Derozan and celebrate a few playoff wins. Toronto is no longer willing to party likes its 1999. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Is he the first or even second best player on a championship team? Likely not, but he's not completely worthless. I do think he can be a valuable playoff player. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
On July 19 2019 01:12 ZenithM wrote: I'm really not a fan of Derozan, I don't think he's anywhere near the elite level of players, but it still always sounds like you underrate him (you regularly place him below multiple bench players). He has a lot of flaws, but he also has some skills that in theory are decently valuable in the playoffs. He's tall and athletic, can get a shot off, can get to the rim while being a very good FT shooter, and he has decent passing skills on top of that. His profile scale less well than more 3&D-oriented players, you certainly don't want 2 Derozans on the floor, but you shouldn't overvalue 3&D too much either. He also seems like a good teammate. Is he the first or even second best player on a championship team? Likely not, but he's not completely worthless. I do think he can be a valuable playoff player. I think youre right, based on that he was. He was often the raps best player in the playoffs, not always but often. And he got them there. There are a bunch of people who "profile better" with less success. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Anyway, we all know the Raptors bench mob was historically good 2 years ago. But low-minute bench players play mostly vs other bench players (vanilla +/- is basically worthless if you want to compare them to starters), and see very few occurrences of play in a starters vs starters setup, so things like RPM are not that reliable either. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 19 2019 01:16 JimmiC wrote: Show nested quote + On July 19 2019 01:12 ZenithM wrote: I'm really not a fan of Derozan, I don't think he's anywhere near the elite level of players, but it still always sounds like you underrate him (you regularly place him below multiple bench players). He has a lot of flaws, but he also has some skills that in theory are decently valuable in the playoffs. He's tall and athletic, can get a shot off, can get to the rim while being a very good FT shooter, and he has decent passing skills on top of that. His profile scale less well than more 3&D-oriented players, you certainly don't want 2 Derozans on the floor, but you shouldn't overvalue 3&D too much either. He also seems like a good teammate. Is he the first or even second best player on a championship team? Likely not, but he's not completely worthless. I do think he can be a valuable playoff player. I think youre right, based on that he was. He was often the raps best player in the playoffs, not always but often. And he got them there. There are a bunch of people who "profile better" with less success. I'd say Lowry was the Raptors best player from 2014 to 2018 in both the regular season and playoffs. Lowry's BBIQ is way better than Derozan's. From 2014 to 2018 so many "Lowry + Bench" lineups did great until Lowry got replaced with Derozan. Then that same line up stunk. Derozan gets worse in the playoffs. Lowry was the Raptors best player from 2014 to 2018 in the playoffs. Derozan is something like 24 for 103 ( i might be off by 1 or 2 ) from 3 in the playoffs. When he is on the floor spacing always becomes an issue. Derozan was ok in the playoffs. Derozan started getting benched by Casey during crucial stretches of games in 2018. This year, Derozan was a -33 in last year's playoffs. It was a 7 game series where the team was -13. That's bad. Lowry is a way better defender than Derozan and a far smarter player than Derozan. Its evident in all the line ups that he has made work over the years. Derozan is an ok playoff player. He is not worth any where near his contract. On July 1 2016 21:24 RowdierBob wrote: Top five poison-pill contracts that will be signed this off season: 1. Demar - max deal at 5 years/$153 million. I actually do like DeMar and he improves his game each year. But he's not a franchise guy. He's an improved, but still high usage, inefficient shooting guard that can't shoot from range. this post has aged very well. On July 19 2019 01:30 ZenithM wrote: In general I don't like arguments that go "Bench player A has better +/- than Starter B, so Starter B should be benched". It's something JJR says quite a lot, even if he presents it in more nuanced ways. The Satoransky > John Wall thing remains a classic to me :D. Anyway, we all know the Raptors bench mob was historically good 2 years ago. But low-minute bench players play mostly vs other bench players (vanilla +/- is basically worthless if you want to compare them to starters), and see very few occurrences of play in a starters vs starters setup, so things like RPM are not that reliable either. as i said : Satoransky is only better than an injured John Wall. if you have a quote of anyone claiming a health Wall is not as good as Satoransky i'd love to see it. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Masai is a good executive, he didn't have much choice and would rather have Derozan, a good all-star player that can get you points far in the playoffs in the East, than not have him at the time. Why do you instead have to say "Derozan's contract is atrocious", "Derozan is not starter caliber", and "Masai is a genius"? Not only are some of these a bit contradictory, but we're also not competing for the hottest takes here, I thought we were better than that. Edit: Also you don't need to sell me on Lowry. I responded to your post because you compared Derozan to Norman Powell. I was never arguing about Lowry. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 19 2019 01:50 ZenithM wrote: Edit: Also you don't need to sell me on Lowry. I responded to your post because you compared Derozan to Norman Powell. I was never arguing about Lowry. I am not responding to your post by discussing Lowry. Please note the post where I discuss Lowry is a response to JimmiC stating Derozan was the Raptor's best player. But ya.. i put that Lowry line in the wrong spot. I'll edit it. On July 19 2019 01:50 ZenithM wrote: Masai is a good executive, he didn't have much choice and would rather have Derozan, a good all-star player that can get you points far in the playoffs in the East, than not have him at the time. yes i think that is true. He didn't have much choice at the time. i think he did a nice job of wiggling out of the deal when he saw a good opportunity to do so. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
You cant only pull your posts from the past that you think are smart and leave out all the rest. Also people tend to think SA had a pretty good front office and they traded for DD | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Anyway I don't really want to defend Derozan too much anymore haha. Like I said at the start it's not like I'm not a huge fan. I just think he's better than most bench players, at the very least :D. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 19 2019 02:04 JimmiC wrote: He often was. I mean its long ago where george hill was goinf to be better than lowry chris paul and so on because short pg all get bad after age 30. You cant only pull your posts from the past that you think are smart and leave out all the rest. Also people tend to think SA had a pretty good front office and they traded for DD I think the big drop off occurs at age 33. Lowry just turned 33 which means the big drop off happens this year. If you go back to my posts you'll see I proposed a 2 year deal for Lowry. Small guards do not age well. Here are some examples If you have some examples of small guards aging well ... I'm willing to alter my position on avoiding long term deals with aging small guards. On June 29 2017 01:08 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i'd stay away from any point guard under 6'1", over 32 years old and wanting a long term deal. In the last 30 years how many guys under 6'1" had great seasons after their 32nd birthday? i'd stay away from both Paul and Lowry if they want a deal longer than 2 years. Let someone else screw up their salary cap. So that Lowry deal would end now. I think Ujiri had to offer a longer deal to keep Lowry though and was in position to do anything else. At least he kept it to 3 years and the Raptors don't have a Chris Paul situation on their hands. So I think Masai did a nice job compared to Morey in keeping Lowry's deal as short as possible. The Chris Paul deal is an albatross. On July 19 2019 02:04 JimmiC wrote: Also people tend to think SA had a pretty good front office and they traded for DD If you lack guard depth and need play makers Derozan is a very useful player. I think DD and his versatility fits in well with the Spurs roster. DD doesn't fit in as well with the Raptors roster. DD's absence gave Siakam more opportunities to blossom as a play maker. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
Yeah zenith hes not a top 20 player but he sure as hell is a top 100 and it is silly to suggest hes not. Powell coildnt crack the raps rotation for part of tgis year and now hes better than a guy who was the second best player on a playoff team in the west. | ||
Elroi
Sweden5471 Posts
On July 17 2019 14:54 Vindicare605 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 16 2019 22:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote: EDIT: Masai Ujiri//the Raptors trading away only one 1st rounder for one year of Leonard is looking better all the time. That had as much to do with the Spurs spiting the Lakers as anything else. We offered plenty for him I'm sure and they just gave us the finger. I see you Spurs. Gonna enjoy trashing on you all during your rebuild. Don't bet on it. There is all the possibilities in the world of this lakers team under performing massively. Last year's team with Lebron and all the young guys were also supposed to be a top team. The risk of under performing goes up a lot in a a dysfunctional organization that also has many new players who aren't used to playing together. And if they do fail, maybe AD is gone in a year. On the other hand, the spurs has some really exciting young guys. I guess only us spurs fans are excited about them, but for some reason this team manages to draft and develop players at an insane rate. Watch out for Derrick White, Lonnie Walker, and Dejounte Murray next season! I know I am a fanboy now, but did you guys watch Lonnie Walker in summer league? He looks like future star. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
Now, obviously its different in every case. Lebron, Durant, Kawhi are different than Kyrie. This is, of course, nuance lost on the mainstream sports media that declares all players in the top 20 superstars, just as they declare all the top 15 quarterbacks "franchise quarterbacks." Most good NBA players lose all value to their teams once they sign a deal in free agency. There are a few who exceed the max salary in value, and thus are outliers. Soon someone will give the AD package for someone like Beal or Lillard/MCollum and we will be back in the "Nets were fleeced" timeline. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 19 2019 19:24 cLutZ wrote: I think a lot of teams are beginning to underrate draft picks again (this seems cyclical). Sure there is an assumption that lots of high picks don't make miracles, but Philly is doing well, Boston is doing well, and most of the time even your average #25 pick has a lot of value, because he's cheap, and often an upperclassman that contributes right away. Now, obviously its different in every case. Lebron, Durant, Kawhi are different than Kyrie. This is, of course, nuance lost on the mainstream sports media that declares all players in the top 20 superstars, just as they declare all the top 15 quarterbacks "franchise quarterbacks." Most good NBA players lose all value to their teams once they sign a deal in free agency. There are a few who exceed the max salary in value, and thus are outliers. Soon someone will give the AD package for someone like Beal or Lillard/MCollum and we will be back in the "Nets were fleeced" timeline. there's nothing to underrate about draft picks, teams want stars/franchise players, and if that's what you want, almost everything outside the top 5 picks is useless. and all these 1st rounders flying around this year is 15+ at best, good for finding complimentary pieces but really dont mean anything if you cant find your franchise player. | ||
Elroi
Sweden5471 Posts
On July 20 2019 23:59 zev318 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 19 2019 19:24 cLutZ wrote: I think a lot of teams are beginning to underrate draft picks again (this seems cyclical). Sure there is an assumption that lots of high picks don't make miracles, but Philly is doing well, Boston is doing well, and most of the time even your average #25 pick has a lot of value, because he's cheap, and often an upperclassman that contributes right away. Now, obviously its different in every case. Lebron, Durant, Kawhi are different than Kyrie. This is, of course, nuance lost on the mainstream sports media that declares all players in the top 20 superstars, just as they declare all the top 15 quarterbacks "franchise quarterbacks." Most good NBA players lose all value to their teams once they sign a deal in free agency. There are a few who exceed the max salary in value, and thus are outliers. Soon someone will give the AD package for someone like Beal or Lillard/MCollum and we will be back in the "Nets were fleeced" timeline. there's nothing to underrate about draft picks, teams want stars/franchise players, and if that's what you want, almost everything outside the top 5 picks is useless. and all these 1st rounders flying around this year is 15+ at best, good for finding complimentary pieces but really dont mean anything if you cant find your franchise player. Golden state's last top 5 draft pick was 2002. The Spurs last top 5 draft pick was 1997. First round picks out of the top 10 can take you far. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 21 2019 05:30 Elroi wrote: Show nested quote + On July 20 2019 23:59 zev318 wrote: On July 19 2019 19:24 cLutZ wrote: I think a lot of teams are beginning to underrate draft picks again (this seems cyclical). Sure there is an assumption that lots of high picks don't make miracles, but Philly is doing well, Boston is doing well, and most of the time even your average #25 pick has a lot of value, because he's cheap, and often an upperclassman that contributes right away. Now, obviously its different in every case. Lebron, Durant, Kawhi are different than Kyrie. This is, of course, nuance lost on the mainstream sports media that declares all players in the top 20 superstars, just as they declare all the top 15 quarterbacks "franchise quarterbacks." Most good NBA players lose all value to their teams once they sign a deal in free agency. There are a few who exceed the max salary in value, and thus are outliers. Soon someone will give the AD package for someone like Beal or Lillard/MCollum and we will be back in the "Nets were fleeced" timeline. there's nothing to underrate about draft picks, teams want stars/franchise players, and if that's what you want, almost everything outside the top 5 picks is useless. and all these 1st rounders flying around this year is 15+ at best, good for finding complimentary pieces but really dont mean anything if you cant find your franchise player. Golden state's last top 5 draft pick was 2002. The Spurs last top 5 draft pick was 1997. First round picks out of the top 10 can take you far. spurs are pretty good example actually, they got their 1 franchise player in duncan and then were able to find great complimentary players with their late 1st rounders. ive said it before and i'll say it again, ginobili and parker are in the HOF, but i dont consider them at the same level as like kobe for example. i did also say "almost". like if u added up all the picks outside of top 5 picks ever, its probably like 99% chance you'll not get a franchise player. id say detroit was probably the last team in a very long time without a true franchise player to win a championship | ||
Elroi
Sweden5471 Posts
On July 21 2019 10:37 zev318 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 21 2019 05:30 Elroi wrote: On July 20 2019 23:59 zev318 wrote: On July 19 2019 19:24 cLutZ wrote: I think a lot of teams are beginning to underrate draft picks again (this seems cyclical). Sure there is an assumption that lots of high picks don't make miracles, but Philly is doing well, Boston is doing well, and most of the time even your average #25 pick has a lot of value, because he's cheap, and often an upperclassman that contributes right away. Now, obviously its different in every case. Lebron, Durant, Kawhi are different than Kyrie. This is, of course, nuance lost on the mainstream sports media that declares all players in the top 20 superstars, just as they declare all the top 15 quarterbacks "franchise quarterbacks." Most good NBA players lose all value to their teams once they sign a deal in free agency. There are a few who exceed the max salary in value, and thus are outliers. Soon someone will give the AD package for someone like Beal or Lillard/MCollum and we will be back in the "Nets were fleeced" timeline. there's nothing to underrate about draft picks, teams want stars/franchise players, and if that's what you want, almost everything outside the top 5 picks is useless. and all these 1st rounders flying around this year is 15+ at best, good for finding complimentary pieces but really dont mean anything if you cant find your franchise player. Golden state's last top 5 draft pick was 2002. The Spurs last top 5 draft pick was 1997. First round picks out of the top 10 can take you far. spurs are pretty good example actually, they got their 1 franchise player in duncan and then were able to find great complimentary players with their late 1st rounders. ive said it before and i'll say it again, ginobili and parker are in the HOF, but i dont consider them at the same level as like kobe for example. i did also say "almost". like if u added up all the picks outside of top 5 picks ever, its probably like 99% chance you'll not get a franchise player. id say detroit was probably the last team in a very long time without a true franchise player to win a championship I don't know that there is a clear definition of what a franchise player is, but Tony, Manu, and Kawhi were all among the top players in the league. So are Curry, Thompson, Draymon, who were all picked outside the top 5 in the lottery. Other guys drafted later, on top of my head: Giannis, Kyle Lowry, Jimmy Butler, Lillard, McCollum, Igoudala, Lou Williams, Jokic, DeAndre Jordan, Iaiah Thomas, Marc Gasol etc. If you go back a couple of years, you get Dirk, Rondo, Pierce etc. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 21 2019 17:53 Elroi wrote: Show nested quote + On July 21 2019 10:37 zev318 wrote: On July 21 2019 05:30 Elroi wrote: On July 20 2019 23:59 zev318 wrote: On July 19 2019 19:24 cLutZ wrote: I think a lot of teams are beginning to underrate draft picks again (this seems cyclical). Sure there is an assumption that lots of high picks don't make miracles, but Philly is doing well, Boston is doing well, and most of the time even your average #25 pick has a lot of value, because he's cheap, and often an upperclassman that contributes right away. Now, obviously its different in every case. Lebron, Durant, Kawhi are different than Kyrie. This is, of course, nuance lost on the mainstream sports media that declares all players in the top 20 superstars, just as they declare all the top 15 quarterbacks "franchise quarterbacks." Most good NBA players lose all value to their teams once they sign a deal in free agency. There are a few who exceed the max salary in value, and thus are outliers. Soon someone will give the AD package for someone like Beal or Lillard/MCollum and we will be back in the "Nets were fleeced" timeline. there's nothing to underrate about draft picks, teams want stars/franchise players, and if that's what you want, almost everything outside the top 5 picks is useless. and all these 1st rounders flying around this year is 15+ at best, good for finding complimentary pieces but really dont mean anything if you cant find your franchise player. Golden state's last top 5 draft pick was 2002. The Spurs last top 5 draft pick was 1997. First round picks out of the top 10 can take you far. spurs are pretty good example actually, they got their 1 franchise player in duncan and then were able to find great complimentary players with their late 1st rounders. ive said it before and i'll say it again, ginobili and parker are in the HOF, but i dont consider them at the same level as like kobe for example. i did also say "almost". like if u added up all the picks outside of top 5 picks ever, its probably like 99% chance you'll not get a franchise player. id say detroit was probably the last team in a very long time without a true franchise player to win a championship I don't know that there is a clear definition of what a franchise player is, but Tony, Manu, and Kawhi were all among the top players in the league. So are Curry, Thompson, Draymon, who were all picked outside the top 5 in the lottery. Other guys drafted later, on top of my head: Giannis, Kyle Lowry, Jimmy Butler, Lillard, McCollum, Igoudala, Lou Williams, Jokic, DeAndre Jordan, Iaiah Thomas, Marc Gasol etc. If you go back a couple of years, you get Dirk, Rondo, Pierce etc. my def of a franchise player is someone that can clearly carry a team alone if needed, and over several seasons. some of the guys u listed i dont think can do that on a consistent basis. like if u put draymond or deandre as a #1 option, that's probably not going to work out. and my point is still this: even with all those guys u listed, what's that like 0.01% of all guys drafted out of the top 5? | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
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zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 22 2019 00:11 JimmiC wrote: And whats the % in the top 5? id say better than 0.01% | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
On July 22 2019 03:33 zev318 wrote: id say better than 0.01% I don't think anyone would dispute that, but generally to get to a top 5 pick you need to be horrendously bad and than often your super star leaves you before you actually win. So I'm not sure tanking is actually worth it, because how many of the teams who have tanked have actually won the Title? If your goal is that and that alone, I'm not sure it is a good strat. And if you goal is to always be competitive, have a fun team to watch, and so on it most certainly isn't. The value of picks is not in getting super stars (though that is awesome when it happens), it is getting players who out produce their contracts. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Coach Pop: "It is only fitting, that after I served loyally for 19 years as Tim Duncan’s assistant, that he returns the favor." https://twitter.com/Rockets_Insider/status/1153407330870071296?s=19 Bonus | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 19 2019 01:30 ZenithM wrote: In general I don't like arguments that go "Bench player A has better +/- than Starter B, so Starter B should be benched". It's something JJR says quite a lot, even if he presents it in more nuanced ways. The Satoransky > John Wall thing remains a classic to me :D. Anyway, we all know the Raptors bench mob was historically good 2 years ago. But low-minute bench players play mostly vs other bench players (vanilla +/- is basically worthless if you want to compare them to starters), and see very few occurrences of play in a starters vs starters setup, so things like RPM are not that reliable either. In the playoffs, Derozan's lack of a 3 pointer messes up spacing on offense badly. In the playoffs, the offensive rating for the Raptors was a lot worse with Derozan on the floor. In 2017 it was 102/112. in 2018 it was 109/123. This year the Spurs offense was as productive with Derozan as they were without him. Offense is supposed to be the strength of Derozan's game. He is a poor defender. In a good system that makes up for his flaws he CAN BE average as a defender. A year ago I thought getting rid of Derozan was a good move. After looking into it a bit more deeply I'd say getting rid of Derozan was a great move. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
The idea for the Max was to create a world were the money was more evenly distributed. But it instead created a situation where teams realized the best teams were with a few Max's and a bunch of minimums. | ||
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
I'm not sure if removing Maxes would been seen as good or bad from the player perspective. I don't think it would lower the overall salary paid. It would just distribute it differently. I'm also not sure how much the players care about competitive balance. If it effects revenues they may. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
On July 25 2019 02:15 IgnE wrote: what would your proposed solution be? i don’t really see why players shouldn’t be able to move around Lowe is making the essential apologist's argument. He lists significant ramifications and then says "it's no big deal" Players can move around. They've been doing it for decades. I agree with JimmiC that raising the max or even removing it all together would be a solution. It's interesting that so few of the recent moves are motivated by money. You don't see people saying "they aren't paying me enough." I like that dynamic a lot more. We could also ramp up the Bird Rights angle with bigger salaries. | ||
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On July 25 2019 02:15 IgnE wrote: what would your proposed solution be? i don’t really see why players shouldn’t be able to move around Players moving around is, IMO, bad for the league, or at the very least not good for it. I understand that people get a lot of traffic about player movement, but that doesn't make the league money. They don't own the information about player movement. They don't own every website that speculates about where Lebron is going in 2021. The only things that reliably make the NBA money are ratings (weak evidence that player movement hurts this), gate (decent evidence movement hurts this), and apparel (no evidence either way). My solution would be a combo with jimmy's. 1. Remove the max, 2. Remove the ability for the "last year option". A 5 year contract isn't 4+1, its just 5. This would apply to teams and players so it actually could get through the CBA, and I think its a good plan. Not that players won't just sign shorter contracts (they might), but if they do they actually face down injury risk instead of having a 1 year security blanket at the end of every contract. | ||
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
The TV rights fees for these teams are not real. they are theoretical amounts that these corporations pay themselves. These umbrella corps shuffle the money around to gain the best net tax advantage for the entire corporation not just for the NBA team. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
the players wouldnt want it as 95% of the players would never see that kind of money anyways and would instead lose money. the owners wouldnt want it as what happens when a guy u are paying 80mil a year gets injured? its actually quite easy to see if a league is losing money, is the cap going up? if it is, then they are not losing money. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
https://nypost.com/2011/11/13/nhl-union-gets-book-smart/ then its tough to tell what is really going on. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 25 2019 10:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote: unless the league is systematically hiding revenues https://nypost.com/2011/11/13/nhl-union-gets-book-smart/ then its tough to tell what is really going on. well the PA is just dumb to not audit every year as they have the right to do that. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
On July 25 2019 09:49 zev318 wrote: i dont think removing the max would pass on either side, no matter what u guys thinks it will solve. the players wouldnt want it as 95% of the players would never see that kind of money anyways and would instead lose money. the owners wouldnt want it as what happens when a guy u are paying 80mil a year gets injured? its actually quite easy to see if a league is losing money, is the cap going up? if it is, then they are not losing money. Why would taking away the max take money away from the players? Wouldn’t it just change the distribution? | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 25 2019 21:40 JimmiC wrote: Show nested quote + On July 25 2019 09:49 zev318 wrote: i dont think removing the max would pass on either side, no matter what u guys thinks it will solve. the players wouldnt want it as 95% of the players would never see that kind of money anyways and would instead lose money. the owners wouldnt want it as what happens when a guy u are paying 80mil a year gets injured? its actually quite easy to see if a league is losing money, is the cap going up? if it is, then they are not losing money. Why would taking away the max take money away from the players? Wouldn’t it just change the distribution? unless you are significantly increasing the salary cap to go along with removing the max salary, it will cause the other players on the team to get paid less. imagine paying lebron 50 mil, it takes away money that would've otherwise gone to the other 14 players on the team. and since 95% of the players will never see something like 50 mil, why would they agree to get less of the pie just so the lebrons and the kawhis can get paid 50 mil? | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
On July 25 2019 22:30 zev318 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 25 2019 21:40 JimmiC wrote: On July 25 2019 09:49 zev318 wrote: i dont think removing the max would pass on either side, no matter what u guys thinks it will solve. the players wouldnt want it as 95% of the players would never see that kind of money anyways and would instead lose money. the owners wouldnt want it as what happens when a guy u are paying 80mil a year gets injured? its actually quite easy to see if a league is losing money, is the cap going up? if it is, then they are not losing money. Why would taking away the max take money away from the players? Wouldn’t it just change the distribution? unless you are significantly increasing the salary cap to go along with removing the max salary, it will cause the other players on the team to get paid less. imagine paying lebron 50 mil, it takes away money that would've otherwise gone to the other 14 players on the team. and since 95% of the players will never see something like 50 mil, why would they agree to get less of the pie just so the lebrons and the kawhis can get paid 50 mil? Yes it will take away from the bottom of the max. But before the max, mid level and all this crap people were distributed all the way through. There was more of a "middle" class for lack of a better term. These rules make it so most players are either max or pretty close to the min. I think it might make it so since you could only afford 1 super star that you would end up getting more of that middle class back. It would be, 2-3 superstar or tank land. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On July 26 2019 02:26 Jerubaal wrote: I can't see why anyone would have any problem with players using the NBA as their personal rec league. as opposed to the owners’/GMs’ personal team building league? i don’t see how giving the players control makes it any less serious | ||
nVme
952 Posts
On July 26 2019 07:30 IgnE wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2019 02:26 Jerubaal wrote: I can't see why anyone would have any problem with players using the NBA as their personal rec league. as opposed to the owners’/GMs’ personal team building league? i don’t see how giving the players control makes it any less serious all about leverage, the players bring in all the money, lawhi got a whole country to tune in mcgregor knows whats up | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
On July 26 2019 07:30 IgnE wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2019 02:26 Jerubaal wrote: I can't see why anyone would have any problem with players using the NBA as their personal rec league. as opposed to the owners’/GMs’ personal team building league? i don’t see how giving the players control makes it any less serious I think for fans they want their team to have a equal chance to win as everyone else's team, and theoretically this is why the rules of Salary caps, the draft and so on happened. The fear is that if the NBA moves to a completely player driven league that they will all want to go play in the few major centers and the rest of the teams won't have a "fair" shake. And I believe what the fans want does matter as they are the ones turning all these super athlete's into millionaires, and a few billionaires even. And of course also making the billionaire owners even richer. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On July 26 2019 08:29 JimmiC wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2019 07:30 IgnE wrote: On July 26 2019 02:26 Jerubaal wrote: I can't see why anyone would have any problem with players using the NBA as their personal rec league. as opposed to the owners’/GMs’ personal team building league? i don’t see how giving the players control makes it any less serious I think for fans they want their team to have a equal chance to win as everyone else's team, and theoretically this is why the rules of Salary caps, the draft and so on happened. The fear is that if the NBA moves to a completely player driven league that they will all want to go play in the few major centers and the rest of the teams won't have a "fair" shake. And I believe what the fans want does matter as they are the ones turning all these super athlete's into millionaires, and a few billionaires even. And of course also making the billionaire owners even richer. fans who want an equal chance are just delusional, theres no such thing. all u can hope for is that the odds are not stacked as much against your team as other teams. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
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IgnE
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JimmiC
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JimmyJRaynor
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On July 26 2019 01:55 ZenithM wrote: Reports coming in that Kawhi was going to the Lakers if Clippers didn't get a second guy. That's what I thought from the start. Toronto takes it graciously yet are still hurt obviously, but they just never had any chance, going to LA is not a basketball decision. He only signed a year deal so he has to keep the bidding war going by claiming he was "very close" to going someplace else. Also, if its truly all about family and not about titles he would not wait until the Clippers trade for PG before signing. | ||
cLutZ
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JimmiC
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JimmyJRaynor
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He makes the Clippers feel good about only getting a 2 year deal while trading away lots of players ...by telegraphing that he was going to the Lakers. Who knows what he was really going to do or how "close" his decision really was. On to another topic: if the tweet below is true. This is great news. | ||
JimmiC
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On July 26 2019 23:18 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2019 01:55 ZenithM wrote: Reports coming in that Kawhi was going to the Lakers if Clippers didn't get a second guy. That's what I thought from the start. Toronto takes it graciously yet are still hurt obviously, but they just never had any chance, going to LA is not a basketball decision. He only signed a year deal so he has to keep the bidding war going by claiming he was "very close" to going someplace else. Also, if its truly all about family and not about titles he would not wait until the Clippers trade for PG before signing. Could have been something like 1) get to LA, 2) build his own good team. If you're going to LA anyway and both teams want you bad, might as well create the best situation for you. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 28 2019 17:34 ZenithM wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2019 23:18 JimmyJRaynor wrote: On July 26 2019 01:55 ZenithM wrote: Reports coming in that Kawhi was going to the Lakers if Clippers didn't get a second guy. That's what I thought from the start. Toronto takes it graciously yet are still hurt obviously, but they just never had any chance, going to LA is not a basketball decision. He only signed a year deal so he has to keep the bidding war going by claiming he was "very close" to going someplace else. Also, if its truly all about family and not about titles he would not wait until the Clippers trade for PG before signing. Could have been something like 1) get to LA, 2) build his own good team. If you're going to LA anyway and both teams want you bad, might as well create the best situation for you. true, and i should've said it was a 2 year guaranteed deal in there | ||
JimmiC
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Twinkle Toes
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KAWHI SPEAKS “Y’all kept saying that me and Paul’s favorite team growing up was the Lakers. I wasn’t a fan of the Lakers growing up. Not saying that’s why I didn’t choose them, but that’s not what it is. I wasn’t a fan of them, and [George] just told you guys he was a Clippers fan.” “Shit, I guess I need a front-office position if that’s what happened. I talked to the Clippers, they had certain players they thought they could pair with me before I signed. [George’s] name was on the board, and I said I would love to play with him. They made the opportunity happen in probably two to three days later.” “We’re going to go in and obviously have a goal set of winning a championship, and if we can get one, then that’s going to start the changing process. But you can’t change one championship against 16 or a brand. … The fan base is going to change over if we win, and that’s the goal. We’ve got to win, and everything else is going to take care of itself." “I just wanted to play at home,” Leonard told Yahoo. “Our families are able to come to games. But just from my own thinking, it’s like we’re in the NBA and I played eight years already. Eight years can fly by so fast, and we’re not able to do anything with [our families] eight or nine months of the season.” “I want to thank the Toronto Raptor fans,” he said to start his press conference. “I don’t have social media so I’m not able to put out a paragraph or whatever. I also just wanna thank the city as far as the restaurants,” he said. “Giving up that Ka’wine & Dine throughout the playoffs. I took advantage of that.” | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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JimmiC
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Still not a perfect team by any means. Pretty weak passing team and no good rim protector. | ||
zev318
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JimmiC
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zev318
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On August 04 2019 11:06 JimmiC wrote: I thought he took a 4 year max? he took a 4 year extension, which is less money per year and less years than if he hit free agency and then resigned. Extension: $99,666,363 over four years ($24,916,591 annually) Max re-signing: $204 million over five years ($39 million annually) Max signing elsewhere: $151 million over four years ($38 million annually) Super-max re-signing: $238 million over five years ($46 million annually) | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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cLutZ
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Jerubaal
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JimmyJRaynor
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Jerubaal
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JimmyJRaynor
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On August 10 2019 15:55 Jerubaal wrote: Man, there are no stars on Team USA. most of Canada's best are not going either. i guess the best players don't want to give up 2 summers in a row of vacation with the olympics happening next year. On August 12 2019 06:24 Jerubaal wrote: Seems like that person liked the Warriors more than the Raptors. the deep purple looks amazing. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
https://thefreshtake.net/2019/08/12/the-art-of-the-rebuild/ The only starter left from the Raptors 2016 playoff run was Lowry. The only bench guy remaining was Powell. In the 2013 "Tank Attempt" before the 2018 shake up the Raptors unloaded the player people thought was their best player. He put up the biggest #s of any Raptors player in his previous years in the league. Rudy Gay. The team got better without Rudy Gay. 1 big team they left out of this article was the 1993 Toronto Blue Jays. After winning the World Series in 1992 the Blue Jays roster turned over more than half the roster with 13 out of 25 players leaving. I've never seen a General Manager constantly get rid of so many really good players while managing to improve teams year after year. | ||
JimmiC
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JimmiC
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zev318
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JimmiC
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This post might end up aging really poorly if Lebron plays like he did 2 seasons ago and AD stays helathy for the full season. But I think it is just as likely that the Lakers are a disaster and AD leaves next offseason and the Lakers are truely fucked like the Nets were after they chased the Boston Oldtimers. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
lebron is the real worry here, wouldnt surprise me tho if he took extra care of his body this summer now that he's got AD, but u can never predict injuries. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
With LeBron part of his greatness has been his availability before last year with his 9 finals appearances and everything he hardly missed any time (and massive minutes). Either last year was a aberration or all those miles have caught up. Like you point out I'm sure he took awesome care, and he appears to be one of the guys who always has. Time will tell. I think if either miss significant time the Lakers will miss the playoffs. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
How can the WNBA problem be fixed? It has been 23 years, but the WNBA might as well just be a regular weekday gradeschool girls' basketball little 3-day league in Wyoming. I mean come on! What can the NBA do to fix the problem. But first, a poll: What kind of an WNBA fan are you? Poll: What kind of an WNBA fan are you? 1. What's WNBA? Don't know don't care (2) 2. I watch when I happen to tv surf into a game (2) 3. I know the teams and I watch occasionally (0) 4. I have favorite players and teams, and I follow them regularly (0) 5. WNBA Stan (0) 4 total votes Your vote: What kind of an WNBA fan are you? (Vote): 1. What's WNBA? Don't know don't care | ||
cLutZ
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On August 22 2019 12:29 cLutZ wrote: Is that a troll post or what? Serious. I mean Its over 2 decades old and its not taking off, and current projections predict its steeper downhill in the next 2-3 years. It's practically a cash drain for the NBA. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
How would I go about watching it from Europe? Also likely without paying for it :D. | ||
JimmiC
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cLutZ
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redlightdistrict
382 Posts
On August 22 2019 23:49 cLutZ wrote: I don't even fit into any of your 5 voting categories. The problem with the WNBA is that basketball is not a good sport for girls. Its like gymnastics. The guys do the rings, ladies do not. It doesn't matter that it would be fair and even if girls faced girls in the rings, it still wouldn't be a good competition. The basketball is fundamentally a sport about jumping and moving side to side quickly. Football is fundamentally a sport about power and size. These are not sports that will ever make sense to put girls in. See, for example, the massive rate of ACL tears for girls bball players. They should just take all the wbball resources and put them into sports based off of Survivor's immunity challenges until they find some that hit. I used to be strength and conditioning coach for a local community college and the girls soccer and basketball teams got injured at a much higher rate of the men's team. Women's hips being natural more outward and knees being more inward which makes girls more vulnerable to hip, knee, and ankle, injury. On the flipside, Men who participated is dance classes got injured at a much higher rate than the girls did because they are not as flexible. Girls and Boys can train to make those muscles stronger, but they cant out train the skeletal structure of the body. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
I wonder if its the same for the knee joint? With far wider hips the femur must be at a different angle. So I wonder if the knee joint of women is fundamentally different leading to very different injury patterns than men experience. I think the WNBA players need to do what every other pro athlete does. Travel to where the money is. The best Canadian soccer players aren't going to make their best money on the continent Canada is on. They play in Europe or some other far off land to maximize their income. I suggest the WNBA players do the same thing. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
I'm also really not in favor of the solutions based on changing the ruleset for women that you see proposed sometimes. Like lower rims. First, they themselves don't want that and it's not practical, and second I'm not convinced it would help the watchability. Just because dunks are more frequent doesn't mean they will be impressive, or that it would help getting more viewers. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
On August 23 2019 10:06 ZenithM wrote: Where is the money for female basketball players though? I'm not sure the demand for female bball is higher elsewhere. I'm also really not in favor of the solutions based on changing the ruleset for women that you see proposed sometimes. Like lower rims. First, they themselves don't want that and it's not practical, and second I'm not convinced it would help the watchability. Just because dunks are more frequent doesn't mean they will be impressive, or that it would help getting more viewers. I completely agree, I would no more watch 10 year olds dunk on 8 foot rims as women dunk on 9 foot. It is not the dunk that it is impressive, it is the athleticism that is required to pull off that dunk. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On August 23 2019 10:06 ZenithM wrote: Where is the money for female basketball players though? I'm not sure the demand for female bball is higher elsewhere. I'm also really not in favor of the solutions based on changing the ruleset for women that you see proposed sometimes. Like lower rims. First, they themselves don't want that and it's not practical, and second I'm not convinced it would help the watchability. Just because dunks are more frequent doesn't mean they will be impressive, or that it would help getting more viewers. russia/china/turkey pays more, but i'd say most articles i read never say anything about how they could afford to pay higher. it said some teams are backed by governments, some have rich owners who dont care about losing money on a women's team. which is kinda like dota, u got some owners who dont care, they just want the best and winning. | ||
redlightdistrict
382 Posts
On August 23 2019 01:06 JimmyJRaynor wrote: I wonder if its the same for the knee joint? With far wider hips the femur must be at a different angle. So I wonder if the knee joint of women is fundamentally different leading to very different injury patterns than men experience. For women that are especially tall as in basketball, it exacerbates the chance of injury. Then longer a woman's legs are, then longer the hips are away from the knee, leaving more room for the muscles around the femur and patella to move thus increasing the odds of a sprain, break, tear, fracture, laceration, strain, etc. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
@cLutz. what category would you be in? @JJ, you seem well connected in the sports/sports science industry, and you obviously have the aptitude and interest, why dont you work in sports? | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
i guess more shots will be fired when the civil lawsuit commences. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On August 23 2019 22:20 Twinkle Toes wrote: TIL, women and injuries. I'll admit, after Lisa Leslie and Loeb early in the WNBA, I havent watched a literal minute of WNBA. @cLutz. what category would you be in? @JJ, you seem well connected in the sports/sports science industry, and you obviously have the aptitude and interest, why dont you work in sports? I would be in "don't care" but because people pretend its a super cool sport and isn't a meat grinder for naive teenage girls, I actively dislike it. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On August 23 2019 10:06 ZenithM wrote: Where is the money for female basketball players though? I'm not sure the demand for female bball is higher elsewhere. i think women basketball players are paid more in Europe, Japan, and Australia. | ||
Disregard
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JimmiC
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JimmyJRaynor
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oh, and btw.. Ordell Robbie has Kevin Durant and the Golden State Warriors.. + Show Spoiler + right here in his Raptor Bag. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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Twinkle Toes
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Poll: Howard-Lakers 2.0, whatcha think? meh season (4) All-Star + playoffs (1) Lebron commits suicide (1) goodish + playoffs (0) locker room drama, on court fighting, popcorn time (0) 6 total votes Your vote: Howard-Lakers 2.0, whatcha think? (Vote): All-Star + playoffs | ||
Jerubaal
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Twinkle Toes
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This is an unpopular opinion, but I like Kidd. Leaving aside non-bball talk (anger management resulting in domestic abuse), I think he is an all-time great player and a more than good coach if given the time to sink his teeth in. Plus, I think he has Lebron's ears, as Lebron is a fanboy of his. This is gonna be a wild LA season at the very least. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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I'd say the 76ers were the 2nd best team last year. | ||
JimmiC
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cLutZ
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JimmyJRaynor
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https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27493105/police-issue-arrest-warrant-lakers-cousins | ||
Jerubaal
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HolydaKing
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On September 11 2019 10:42 Twinkle Toes wrote: No one watches FIBA? I watched the end of Spain vs Australia (feels bad for Australia) and most of France vs Argentina. Nice to see Argentina in the final, Scola was awesome to watch. | ||
GTR
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Atreides
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On September 15 2019 10:36 GTR wrote: Are these serious questions? lol. Did you even look at the roster?usa finishes 7th. is the gap closing? are american players just shittier than ever? is popovich overrated? | ||
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andrewlt
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JimmyJRaynor
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On September 15 2019 10:36 GTR wrote: usa finishes 7th. is the gap closing? are american players just shittier than ever? is popovich overrated? These 1 game elimination tourneys don't prove much. There are many giant upsets in that format. I wouldn't try to read too much into the results of this event. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
Does anyone think that, even if they were being paid a good salary, the under the table payments would stop? | ||
cLutZ
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I think schools paying kids will just result in an erosion of fan interest. | ||
JimmiC
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Elroi
Sweden5471 Posts
On September 25 2019 03:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Game 7. 0 Seconds left on the clock. Show nested quote + On September 15 2019 10:36 GTR wrote: usa finishes 7th. is the gap closing? are american players just shittier than ever? is popovich overrated? These 1 game elimination tourneys don't prove much. There are many giant upsets in that format. I wouldn't try to read too much into the results of this event. The US team lost to France and Serbia, and before the tournament they lost to Australia. It wasn't even an upset that they lost. They looked significantly worse than France and I thought they would lose against that team after seeing France - Australia a couple of days earlier. | ||
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On September 25 2019 07:19 cLutZ wrote: TBH I think formal salaries would kill whatever golden goose people think is available. Rather, the NCAA should do things like bring back NCAAF the video game and give a % to players, let them get paid for endorsements, etc. I think schools paying kids will just result in an erosion of fan interest. you might be right but it makes no sense whatsoever to me that a fan’s interest might be predicated on watching only players that don’t make any money | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
https://streamable.com/31y8o https://streamable.com/3j31q Ujiri probably got a handshake deal with CBC that they would cut anything that didn't go well. However, he still did take some tough questions. On September 25 2019 07:35 Elroi wrote: Show nested quote + On September 25 2019 03:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Game 7. 0 Seconds left on the clock. On September 15 2019 10:36 GTR wrote: usa finishes 7th. is the gap closing? are american players just shittier than ever? is popovich overrated? These 1 game elimination tourneys don't prove much. There are many giant upsets in that format. I wouldn't try to read too much into the results of this event. The US team lost to France and Serbia, and before the tournament they lost to Australia. It wasn't even an upset that they lost. They looked significantly worse than France and I thought they would lose against that team after seeing France - Australia a couple of days earlier. Team USA spent so little time together in a competitive environment its hard to gauge how good they are. That said, in a real 7 game playoff series I think Team USA's depth allows them win to over France, Australia, and Serbia. But again Team USA spends so little time together my projection//prediction is more of a guess than anything. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On September 25 2019 08:01 IgnE wrote: Show nested quote + On September 25 2019 07:19 cLutZ wrote: TBH I think formal salaries would kill whatever golden goose people think is available. Rather, the NCAA should do things like bring back NCAAF the video game and give a % to players, let them get paid for endorsements, etc. I think schools paying kids will just result in an erosion of fan interest. you might be right but it makes no sense whatsoever to me that a fan’s interest might be predicated on watching only players that don’t make any money Its kinda like how CBB interest is already way down. The only real appeal outside of the appeal of a minor league is the facade that these guys love your school as much as you. Or are fighting for the school. And the more you make it obvious that is false, the less people pay attention. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
On September 25 2019 08:52 cLutZ wrote: Show nested quote + On September 25 2019 08:01 IgnE wrote: On September 25 2019 07:19 cLutZ wrote: TBH I think formal salaries would kill whatever golden goose people think is available. Rather, the NCAA should do things like bring back NCAAF the video game and give a % to players, let them get paid for endorsements, etc. I think schools paying kids will just result in an erosion of fan interest. you might be right but it makes no sense whatsoever to me that a fan’s interest might be predicated on watching only players that don’t make any money Its kinda like how CBB interest is already way down. The only real appeal outside of the appeal of a minor league is the facade that these guys love your school as much as you. Or are fighting for the school. And the more you make it obvious that is false, the less people pay attention. That is possible, it is also possible that because of the one and done or even 2 and 3 and done players that people do not become attached like they used too. If people were paid more might stay which would create more attachment. Or it is down because of the many other entertainment choices, or , or There could be lots of reasons why interest is down that is unrelated to the reasons you suggest. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
The NCAA is scummy and rife with fraud. If its losses lead to gains for the G-League then all the better. | ||
JimmiC
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cLutZ
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On September 25 2019 20:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Many non-Americans including me just don't get the whole college "Rah Rah" sports culture thing. Americans affinity for baseball... i kinda get that because it is most in line with the individualist ideology core to American values. But, the college "Rah Rah" thing....i don't get it. I thought the purpose of university was to widen one's world view? The NCAA is scummy and rife with fraud. If its losses lead to gains for the G-League then all the better. The purpose of University is to waste 4 years of your life getting a certificate of competency and intelligence because no one trusts US high schools to certify competency or intelligence. But its also important for your certificate to be as prestigious as possible, whence the collective love and evangelization for your certificate issuer. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Kawhi comes up limping for the last 15 games of the playoffs after only playing 60 regular season games and playing 9 games the previous year. He is still limping around after the season is over. I think the Clippers should stick to no back-2-backs and keeping Kawhi out of games when he is even has a little bit of tendonitis in either knee. If they try to get him to play with pain from tendonitis during the regular season the finger pointing will be hilarious. I disagree with Jackie Macmullan here. If anyone's thinking is going to have to change... it'll be Doc Rivers not Kawhi Leonard. On September 25 2019 22:29 JimmiC wrote: Most of the Canadians I know get it, because it only takes one rivalry game to see the excitement in the crowd and on the court. And that is before we even get to march madness the best playoffs in sport. I dont know any basketball fan that does not at least watch march madness and many non that do. I think the above is true for.you not for most. Thanks for your reply. i think cLutZ got my point ... but I think you missed my point so I'll be more specific. off topic.+ Show Spoiler + I get people enjoying a competitive sport.. piling into an arena and screaming your head off. i get that. it is fun. What I don't get is my gf's 2 nieces and nephews all viewing the quality of the b-ball and football games as an important priority in their decision about which school to attend. I don't get it. my gf is american and she doesn't get it either Her nieces and nephews are american as well. In the town where I went for post secondary education there are 2 universities. One is a working class school where many of the students paid their own way through. The other is this so-called elite "academic" school that had the great football and hockey games. The students graduated into crappy, low paying jobs under a mountain of student debt. Many of the grads from the working class university graduated under little to no debt into pretty cool interesting jobs that paid well. Its not like these outcomes were hard to predict. So I don't even get the students that went to the snobby school and partied for 3+ years as their debt mounted higher and higher. its funny listening to 30+ year old people whining about their student debt. | ||
Disregard
China10252 Posts
https://streamable.com/mqvws | ||
JimmiC
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Jerubaal
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JimmiC
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Twinkle Toes
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CorsairHero
Canada9487 Posts
what a hypocrite | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
Kerr and the rest of them have been exposed as the clowns I always suspected they were. If the DNC doesn't have some talking points for them they got nothing. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
The Raptors played training camp in Quebec. Shouldn't the NBA have boycotted Quebec due to Bill 21? Where is Steve Kerr's expert political stance on Bill 21? Steve? Where are you Steve? This is a fantastic Raptors Retrospective... | ||
zev318
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cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On October 13 2019 22:21 zev318 wrote: are u guys complaining that steve kerr isnt up to date on all the political events in the world? Not at all. I am sticking to my thought that he isn't up to date on any political events, US or World, and is just a blowhard who loves getting praise from an equally uninformed sorts media. Also, this is like the weakest defense I've ever seen of just about anything. Who doesn't know China is a Communist authoritarian state? Who doesn't understand the jailing of political protestors? Its not some complex topic. Kerr has always felt happy talking about far more complex and subtle topics so long as he has NBA-approved DNC talking points. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
I'm guessing the NBA sent out a notice to not talk about Chinese politics and has not about American politics. As much as the states gets shit on, people like Kerr and Alex Jones (just picking a random rightwing person) can complain and talk badly of political leader with no consequence not so in China. I wish the NBA was brave enough to shit on China, but you can tell by hardens post they care more about $$$ then that sort of thing. | ||
zev318
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IgnE
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Jerubaal
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cLutZ
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They are who we thought they were. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
On October 15 2019 10:55 cLutZ wrote: Lebron with the ultimate clownish, lacking in self awareness answer, "“I don’t want to get into a ... feud with Daryl Morey but I believe he wasn’t educated on the situation at hand and he spoke.” They are who we thought they were. I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean. | ||
CorsairHero
Canada9487 Posts
On October 15 2019 11:08 Jerubaal wrote: Show nested quote + On October 15 2019 10:55 cLutZ wrote: Lebron with the ultimate clownish, lacking in self awareness answer, "“I don’t want to get into a ... feud with Daryl Morey but I believe he wasn’t educated on the situation at hand and he spoke.” They are who we thought they were. I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean. hes saying Morey doesn't know what hes talking about This situation is proving who the real frauds are including the bozos at ESPN. The NBA moved an all star game over a bathroom a couple years ago so its not like they stay out when they can. also this is pretty funny featuring guys like Kerr | ||
Jerubaal
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
everyone is a loser in this mess. i really wish more people in the west would boycott the league's bullshit attitude for them to say fuck what china thinks | ||
StarStruck
25339 Posts
On September 27 2019 23:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote: The Clippers want Leonard to play more? ok guys. LOL. Kawhi comes up limping for the last 15 games of the playoffs after only playing 60 regular season games and playing 9 games the previous year. He is still limping around after the season is over. I think the Clippers should stick to no back-2-backs and keeping Kawhi out of games when he is even has a little bit of tendonitis in either knee. If they try to get him to play with pain from tendonitis during the regular season the finger pointing will be hilarious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34iQ_lK5VY8 I disagree with Jackie Macmullan here. If anyone's thinking is going to have to change... it'll be Doc Rivers not Kawhi Leonard. Show nested quote + On September 25 2019 22:29 JimmiC wrote: Most of the Canadians I know get it, because it only takes one rivalry game to see the excitement in the crowd and on the court. And that is before we even get to march madness the best playoffs in sport. I dont know any basketball fan that does not at least watch march madness and many non that do. I think the above is true for.you not for most. Thanks for your reply. i think cLutZ got my point ... but I think you missed my point so I'll be more specific. off topic.+ Show Spoiler + I get people enjoying a competitive sport.. piling into an arena and screaming your head off. i get that. it is fun. What I don't get is my gf's 2 nieces and nephews all viewing the quality of the b-ball and football games as an important priority in their decision about which school to attend. I don't get it. my gf is american and she doesn't get it either Her nieces and nephews are american as well. In the town where I went for post secondary education there are 2 universities. One is a working class school where many of the students paid their own way through. The other is this so-called elite "academic" school that had the great football and hockey games. The students graduated into crappy, low paying jobs under a mountain of student debt. Many of the grads from the working class university graduated under little to no debt into pretty cool interesting jobs that paid well. Its not like these outcomes were hard to predict. So I don't even get the students that went to the snobby school and partied for 3+ years as their debt mounted higher and higher. its funny listening to 30+ year old people whining about their student debt. I figured something like that what would happen. we all knew he was going to end up in LA eventually meh. It's like people don't listen lol. Hope we don't have another Durant situation. Not watching the NBA. Tired of tampering and all this other bullshit. we got our trophy. end of it | ||
Elroi
Sweden5471 Posts
I'm also very, very disappointed in Kerr. Mumbling about the question being too complicated is just disgustingly weak. At least say that you don't want to speak your mind on the issue for fear that it would hurt your career and the team you are coaching. Popovich response that he likes Silver's protection of Morey's freedom of speech is not as disgusting as Kerr's, but it's still pretty weak. | ||
KOFgokuon
United States14883 Posts
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zev318
Canada4304 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22807 Posts
As you stated the simplest solution is to say nothing, whether or not that is the best depends on your convictions. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On October 15 2019 23:12 JimmiC wrote: As you stated the simplest solution is to say nothing, whether or not that is the best depends on your convictions. That's the thing, Lebron could have opted to say nothing, yet he said the worst possible thing to say regarding the situation short of openly declaring he supports the fascists genocidal Chinese regime. What makes it worst is that his team had more than a week to write a calculated response to this whole China incident, yet they came up with that garbage. On a related note, I would like to point out that the issue here is speaking against the Chinese government and what it is doing to HK and all its abuses. It is entirely separate from supporting or enjoying Chinese culture. A person can enjoy Chinese New Year, language, etc., and still be against the oppressive government. | ||
BlackJack
United States9272 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27864309/bradley-beal-wizards-agree-2-year-72m-extension Kawhi Watch The L.A. Clippers last pre-season game is tonight. Thus far, Kawhi Leonard has played 11 minutes in 1 pre season game. For comparison, last year Leonard played ~75 minutes in 3 games. The Raptors came flying out of the gate last year at 12-1. This made giving Leonard all the rest he wanted a lot easier. The LA Clippers play 6 games in 10 days to start the season and will be without Paul George. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On October 15 2019 16:49 StarStruck wrote: Not watching the NBA. Tired of tampering and all this other bullshit. we got our trophy. end of it meh, no league is perfect man. The 1985 World Series Champs are teh St. Louis Cardinals. Jorge Orta was out at 1st base. The 1999 Stanley Cup final OT goal by Brett Hull was scored with his foot clearly in the crease. In that year any question of the foot in the crease went to video review. There were 87 bazillion video reviews that year.. except for Brett Hull's OT Cup Winning Goal. When isn't Bill Bellichick and his management team cheating? Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens records all fueled on blood doping, HGH and 'roids. On a more positive note, watching Leonard, VanVleet, and Lowry will their broken bodies to an NBA title was reminiscent of a battered hockey team winning the Stanley Cup. Now NHLers all wear face shields so Kyle Lowry has become the career professional sports leader in black eyes with 34857389758. And all the street parties in Toronto, Mississauga, and Brampton for 3 weeks... it was surreal man. Kawhi Leonard risked his long term health as he limped through the final 15 games of the playoffs. I hope the man gets a big Standing "O" in Vancouver tonight. He'll be getting one from me when the Clippers visit Toronto. Rant over. | ||
CorsairHero
Canada9487 Posts
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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CorsairHero
Canada9487 Posts
On October 18 2019 11:09 IgnE wrote: I'm confused about what Lebron even meant. Has he tried to clarify what he meant? It kind of looks like he spoke nonsense. said this about Morey's tweet for HK | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On October 18 2019 11:09 IgnE wrote: I'm confused about what Lebron even meant. Has he tried to clarify what he meant? It kind of looks like he spoke nonsense. You know the dumb kid in your 6th grade class? You know how he had a slightly less dumb friend that would write things that are wrong, but like he kinda close to a real book report for him to read during group projects, but he couldn't memorize so you get a really weird version of a dumb take? That's LeBron. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On October 18 2019 10:42 CorsairHero wrote: Chinese Communist Party attempts to fire a General Manager of an American NBA team That is hearsay from Adam Silver. Who knows if this is true or not. With his narrative Silver can make it appear he stood up to Big Bad China. However, I have not heard a word of support for Hong Kong's independence since Morey's quickly deleted tweet. The NBA rolled into China in 1990 months after tiananmen square. Every city that has an NBA team lives under a constant threat of the team leaving. Dolan gets $40 million a year in tax breaks from New York. Don't believe anything these guys say... especially regarding China. the NBA PR machine is working triple Overtime to try and spin this disaster any way possible. | ||
andrewlt
United States7645 Posts
On October 18 2019 11:09 IgnE wrote: I'm confused about what Lebron even meant. Has he tried to clarify what he meant? It kind of looks like he spoke nonsense. Just verbal diarrhea. He even said Morey could've waited a week to tweet, basically after the Lakers come back from China. | ||
KOFgokuon
United States14883 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On October 18 2019 12:23 KOFgokuon wrote: Rofl you really think silver is gonna make up that some government official tried to pressure the NBA to fire Morey if it’s false that’s way more likely to cause China to boot the NBA Who knows what angle Silver is playing. You're assuming you know China's current position. You don't know what China is up to. Any how, a few lies from Silver now could be used for some other set up move later. I don't trust any word that comes out of his mouth regarding China. We only see the very surface level of the jockeying back and forth between several mammoth stake holders. | ||
CorsairHero
Canada9487 Posts
On October 18 2019 12:26 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Show nested quote + On October 18 2019 12:23 KOFgokuon wrote: Rofl you really think silver is gonna make up that some government official tried to pressure the NBA to fire Morey if it’s false that’s way more likely to cause China to boot the NBA Who knows what angle Silver is playing. You're assuming you know China's current position. You don't know what China is up to. Any how, a few lies from Silver now could be used for some other set up move later. I don't trust any word that comes out of his mouth regarding China. We only see the very surface level of the jockeying back and forth between several mammoth stake holders. Silver opened the floor. James raised his hand. His question was related to Morey -- and the commissioner's handling of the Rockets' GM. James, to paraphrase, told Silver that he knew that if a player caused the same type of uproar with something he said or tweeted, the player wouldn't be able to skate on it. There would be some type of repercussion. So, James wanted to know, what was Silver going to do about it in Morey's case? Silver pushed back, reminding the players that the league never doled out discipline when they publicly criticized President Donald Trump. Morey was exercising the same liberty when he challenged China. Regardless of the financial fallout of one versus the other, that's not what should matter. Silver might have disliked the ramifications of Morey's tweet, but he would defend the right to say it. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27852687/inside-lebron-james-adam-silver-make-break-moments-china | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
The Clippers lost 2 important and frequent ball distributors. They replaced them with a guy who had 2 shoulder operations and won't play for a while and another guy who got zero reps in the summer and played 33 minutes in the pre-season. The Clippers better hope Beverley stays healthy early in the year. The other Western Conference powerhouses look like they're already out for blood, meanwhile, the Clippers look like they are shuffling around in quicksand. | ||
Elroi
Sweden5471 Posts
On October 18 2019 11:40 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Show nested quote + On October 18 2019 10:42 CorsairHero wrote: Chinese Communist Party attempts to fire a General Manager of an American NBA team That is hearsay from Adam Silver. Who knows if this is true or not. With his narrative Silver can make it appear he stood up to Big Bad China. However, I have not heard a word of support for Hong Kong's independence since Morey's quickly deleted tweet. The NBA rolled into China in 1990 months after tiananmen square. Every city that has an NBA team lives under a constant threat of the team leaving. Dolan gets $40 million a year in tax breaks from New York. Don't believe anything these guys say... especially regarding China. the NBA PR machine is working triple Overtime to try and spin this disaster any way possible. Well its not hearsay that CCP went batshit insane over Morey's tweet and wanted severe repercussions - so why would they not want him fired? | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On October 18 2019 17:26 Elroi wrote: Show nested quote + On October 18 2019 11:40 JimmyJRaynor wrote: On October 18 2019 10:42 CorsairHero wrote: Chinese Communist Party attempts to fire a General Manager of an American NBA team That is hearsay from Adam Silver. Who knows if this is true or not. With his narrative Silver can make it appear he stood up to Big Bad China. However, I have not heard a word of support for Hong Kong's independence since Morey's quickly deleted tweet. The NBA rolled into China in 1990 months after tiananmen square. Every city that has an NBA team lives under a constant threat of the team leaving. Dolan gets $40 million a year in tax breaks from New York. Don't believe anything these guys say... especially regarding China. the NBA PR machine is working triple Overtime to try and spin this disaster any way possible. Well its not hearsay that CCP went batshit insane over Morey's tweet and wanted severe repercussions - so why would they not want him fired? That is a good point. It is possible what Silver said it true. It is also possible Silver is framing the communications in a confidential meeting with various unknown and unnamed Chinese government officials so that he can make it look like he "stood up to China". Silver claiming he "stood up to China" doesn't match with the rest of the NBA's behaviour since 2 minutes after Morey made the "Free Hong Kong" tweet. Since then the NBA has been in back pedal mode while delivering all manner of self contradictory PR spin to non-China media ... a lot of whom pay the NBA rights fees. | ||
KOFgokuon
United States14883 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On October 18 2019 21:37 KOFgokuon wrote: Please take your /r/conspiracy theories somewhere else Skepticism is not a conspiracy theory. The phrase "conspiracy theory" is often used to obfuscate authentic discussion. my perspective on this debacle is pretty close to how Lowe and Woj express things during this podcast. | ||
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
idk why people care what lebron says about most things though | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Once you factor in the playoffs Leonard played more minutes last year than any other year of his career. He played a total of 2,980 minutes last year. https://streamable.com/05fu4 Leonard said he was injured going into 2018-2019. hmmmm. | ||
andrewlt
United States7645 Posts
On October 19 2019 01:42 IgnE wrote: maybe Lebron was just concerned about what might happen to him and his teammates/staff in china idk why people care what lebron says about most things though Doesn't fit the timeline. Lots of the NBA's most vocal people punted on the China issue. Chairman James could've done the same. Instead, he issued an unprompted very pro-CCP message after he was already back in Los Angeles. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/report-raptors-sign-pascal-siakam-four-year-max-extension/ | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On October 20 2019 06:55 andrewlt wrote: Show nested quote + On October 19 2019 01:42 IgnE wrote: maybe Lebron was just concerned about what might happen to him and his teammates/staff in china idk why people care what lebron says about most things though Doesn't fit the timeline. Lots of the NBA's most vocal people punted on the China issue. Chairman James could've done the same. Instead, he issued an unprompted very pro-CCP message after he was already back in Los Angeles. chinese assassins are everywhere On October 20 2019 07:54 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Pascal Siakam signed to a 4 year $130 million extension. https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/report-raptors-sign-pascal-siakam-four-year-max-extension/ im on the side that they shouldve waited | ||
Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
LeBron was upset about that, and said so in that interview | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On October 18 2019 21:37 KOFgokuon wrote: Please take your /r/conspiracy theories somewhere else On October 18 2019 12:23 KOFgokuon wrote: Rofl you really think silver is gonna make up that some government official tried to pressure the NBA to fire Morey if it’s false that’s way more likely to cause China to boot the NBA Chinese Authorities dispute Silver's claim that a request was made to fire Morey. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3033707/nba-commissioner-adam-silver-will-face-retribution-defaming "But Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said on Friday that Beijing had never made such a demand." I don't auto-believe a thing coming out of Adam Silver's mouth. Generally speaking, I think most adults are liars. Also, if Adam Silver decides to lie its not a "conspiracy". Its 1 guy bullshitting. That's not what a conspiracy is. On October 20 2019 08:47 zev318 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 20 2019 07:54 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Pascal Siakam signed to a 4 year $130 million extension. https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/report-raptors-sign-pascal-siakam-four-year-max-extension/ im on the side that they shouldve waited to your point about waiting... if China decides they want to spend a lot less money on the NBA the salary cap can fall and Max deals like the Siakam deal will land up taking up a higher % of the salary cap. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27897494/zion-williamson-undergoes-knee-surgery-6-8-weeks | ||
Elroi
Sweden5471 Posts
On October 22 2019 06:30 JimmyJRaynor wrote: For the last few days we've heard the Pelicans emphasize the Williamson injury was not very serious. We heard he avoided anything really bad. Welp, Williamson had arthroscopic surgery on a torn meniscus in his right knee. Out 6-8 weeks. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27897494/zion-williamson-undergoes-knee-surgery-6-8-weeks Not a good sign. I was so hyped to see the Pelicans too. I have come to really respect Lonzo btw: it must be pretty rough to come into the league with all those expectations to such a giant market and fail (lets face it - thats what he did in the beginning). Also humiliating to be dominated by guys like Beverly and brick free throws left and right. And now when I watch him in the preseason he legitimately looks scary and his shot actually looks good to me. He could have easily taken the Fultz route imo. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On October 22 2019 19:45 Elroi wrote: Not a good sign. I was so hyped to see the Pelicans too. Here is a detailed look at Zion's injury. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27905614/chinese-state-tv-air-nba-opening-slate-protests-staples-center | ||
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