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NBA Offseason 2019 - Page 10

Forum Index > Sports
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Twinkle Toes
Profile Joined May 2012
United States3605 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-07-23 00:01:58
July 22 2019 23:59 GMT
#181
The San Antonio Spurs today announced that Tim Duncan will be added to Gregg Popovich’s bench as an assistant coach.

Coach Pop: "It is only fitting, that after I served loyally for 19 years as Tim Duncan’s assistant, that he returns the favor."


https://twitter.com/Rockets_Insider/status/1153407330870071296?s=19

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JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17319 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-07-23 14:19:45
July 23 2019 13:40 GMT
#182
On July 19 2019 01:30 ZenithM wrote:
In general I don't like arguments that go "Bench player A has better +/- than Starter B, so Starter B should be benched". It's something JJR says quite a lot, even if he presents it in more nuanced ways. The Satoransky > John Wall thing remains a classic to me :D.
Anyway, we all know the Raptors bench mob was historically good 2 years ago. But low-minute bench players play mostly vs other bench players (vanilla +/- is basically worthless if you want to compare them to starters), and see very few occurrences of play in a starters vs starters setup, so things like RPM are not that reliable either.

In the playoffs, Derozan's lack of a 3 pointer messes up spacing on offense badly. In the playoffs, the offensive rating for the Raptors was a lot worse with Derozan on the floor. In 2017 it was 102/112. in 2018 it was 109/123.

This year the Spurs offense was as productive with Derozan as they were without him. Offense is supposed to be the strength of Derozan's game. He is a poor defender. In a good system that makes up for his flaws he CAN BE average as a defender.

A year ago I thought getting rid of Derozan was a good move. After looking into it a bit more deeply I'd say getting rid of Derozan was a great move.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
July 23 2019 16:41 GMT
#183
Sad to see Zach Lowe going into what I call "Isaac Asimoviness", meaning he just says that whatever happens is the best result and there's no point in fighting it.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
July 23 2019 17:14 GMT
#184
what is he saying?
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
July 24 2019 15:43 GMT
#185
He's waving his hands and saying there's nothing to see here with all the recent player maneuvering.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
July 24 2019 17:15 GMT
#186
what would your proposed solution be? i don’t really see why players shouldn’t be able to move around
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
July 24 2019 17:47 GMT
#187
--- Nuked ---
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
July 24 2019 20:05 GMT
#188
so remove all caps except team cap, including on incoming draftees, and let the teams figure out how much to pay each player
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
July 24 2019 20:14 GMT
#189
--- Nuked ---
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
July 24 2019 20:58 GMT
#190
On July 25 2019 02:15 IgnE wrote:
what would your proposed solution be? i don’t really see why players shouldn’t be able to move around


Lowe is making the essential apologist's argument. He lists significant ramifications and then says "it's no big deal"

Players can move around. They've been doing it for decades.

I agree with JimmiC that raising the max or even removing it all together would be a solution. It's interesting that so few of the recent moves are motivated by money. You don't see people saying "they aren't paying me enough." I like that dynamic a lot more. We could also ramp up the Bird Rights angle with bigger salaries.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
July 24 2019 21:05 GMT
#191
If you are talking about his ESPN article from yesterday, I found it convincing. An apologist might simply be right. It might not actually be a big deal.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 24 2019 21:57 GMT
#192
On July 25 2019 02:15 IgnE wrote:
what would your proposed solution be? i don’t really see why players shouldn’t be able to move around


Players moving around is, IMO, bad for the league, or at the very least not good for it. I understand that people get a lot of traffic about player movement, but that doesn't make the league money. They don't own the information about player movement. They don't own every website that speculates about where Lebron is going in 2021. The only things that reliably make the NBA money are ratings (weak evidence that player movement hurts this), gate (decent evidence movement hurts this), and apparel (no evidence either way).


My solution would be a combo with jimmy's. 1. Remove the max, 2. Remove the ability for the "last year option". A 5 year contract isn't 4+1, its just 5. This would apply to teams and players so it actually could get through the CBA, and I think its a good plan. Not that players won't just sign shorter contracts (they might), but if they do they actually face down injury risk instead of having a 1 year security blanket at the end of every contract.
Freeeeeeedom
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-07-24 22:10:09
July 24 2019 22:09 GMT
#193
is there any evidence that the NBA has lost or is losing money? or is that speculation?
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 24 2019 22:49 GMT
#194
Its not losing money, but gate and ratings have gone down this year, and realistically based on the amount of coverage it gets you'd think the NBA would be closer to the NFL than it is to MLB, but the opposite is true.
Freeeeeeedom
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17319 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-07-24 23:23:15
July 24 2019 23:22 GMT
#195
For the Knicks and Raptors I'd say its impossible to determine whether or not they make or lose money. Both are part of massive umbrella corporations that own the sports networks that have their big TV rights deals. These umbrella corps also own several other pro sports teams that play in the practice facilities and buildings where the pro NBA teams play.

The TV rights fees for these teams are not real. they are theoretical amounts that these corporations pay themselves. These umbrella corps shuffle the money around to gain the best net tax advantage for the entire corporation not just for the NBA team.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
zev318
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada4306 Posts
July 25 2019 00:49 GMT
#196
i dont think removing the max would pass on either side, no matter what u guys thinks it will solve.

the players wouldnt want it as 95% of the players would never see that kind of money anyways and would instead lose money. the owners wouldnt want it as what happens when a guy u are paying 80mil a year gets injured?

its actually quite easy to see if a league is losing money, is the cap going up? if it is, then they are not losing money.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17319 Posts
July 25 2019 01:09 GMT
#197
unless the league is systematically hiding revenues
https://nypost.com/2011/11/13/nhl-union-gets-book-smart/

then its tough to tell what is really going on.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
zev318
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada4306 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-07-25 01:22:24
July 25 2019 01:21 GMT
#198
On July 25 2019 10:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
unless the league is systematically hiding revenues
https://nypost.com/2011/11/13/nhl-union-gets-book-smart/

then its tough to tell what is really going on.


well the PA is just dumb to not audit every year as they have the right to do that.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 25 2019 03:10 GMT
#199
The cap going up has no connection to if the league is making money. All it means is top line revenue is going up, which is true for all leagues because we are in a bull market for live rights. That fact says nothing about a leagues' fundamentals, including profit.
Freeeeeeedom
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
July 25 2019 12:40 GMT
#200
--- Nuked ---
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