Good point. But LeBron wasn't the only rookie who had immediate results in the NBA (Wade, Bosh, CP3, Rose, Kevin Durant, Tyreke Evans, Brandon Roy, etc). And Wiggins was expected by many to be "the next LBJ". I mean it can definitely still happen, the guy's career is only 20 games long right now so who knows. But with all the fuss about him, I was expecting a more immediate and visible impact...

RowdierBob

Australia13430 Posts

December 02 2014 09:34 GMT

#963

But your premise implies teams are overlooking more NBA ready guys for raw talent.

Guys aren't staying in college as long (and why would you if you're going to go top 5) so we're seeing a lot of raw guys with high upside coming out early rather than refining their games.

But that has been happening for years. Think of how many guys used to get drafted out of High School with high upside (Kobe, KG, Gerald Green, T Mac, Dwight etc). It's not a new phenomenon.

Jaaaaasper

United States10225 Posts

December 02 2014 11:05 GMT

#964

I mean Wiggins was hailed as that out of high school. But people backed off of that once they saw him in college and said he was somewhere between T-mac and Tony Allen as a floor with his defense. If he hits the Tmac upside, it won't be all at once.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

December 02 2014 11:50 GMT

#965

Lebron wasn't really that impressive as a rookie. Durant was fucking horrible, Rose and Bosh were meh. Even Wade was meh until the second half of the year.

Rookies, even future stars, tend to look bad. Especially true for the super young under 21 guys. Thing with Wiggins is he isn't really assertive in a good way (dominate playmaking at times). I didn't buy into his or Parker's hype anyway because the few games I saw of them I thought they weren't star talents. Plenty of time to be proven wrong though.

ZenithM

France15952 Posts

December 02 2014 11:59 GMT

#966

Lebron was like 20/5/5 as a rookie right?

And I was gonna say "kinda like Jordan, right?". But I just checked, and holy fucking shit, Jordan was 28/6/6 in his rookie season. Granted he was coming out of college, but still very impressive. Nevertheless, Lebron was a good rookie ;D

LoneYoShi

France1348 Posts

December 02 2014 12:02 GMT

#967

On December 02 2014 18:34 RowdierBob wrote:
But your premise implies teams are overlooking more NBA ready guys for raw talent.

Guys aren't staying in college as long (and why would you if you're going to go top 5) so we're seeing a lot of raw guys with high upside coming out early rather than refining their games.

But that has been happening for years. Think of how many guys used to get drafted out of High School with high upside (Kobe, KG, Gerald Green, T Mac, Dwight etc). It's not a new phenomenon.

All the guys you mention as having high upsides and who came straight out of high school still had a direct, measurable impact on their teams' results, even as rookies. Some of them were even the star player of their teams. KG, Dwight, Kobe, LBJ etc (not T-Mac though), even though they came straight out of high school and were young and raw and unrefined.

For some reason, this year (which was supposed to be a good draft), no player actually has a big impact of his team (outside of Jabari Parker). It was the same last year if I recall correctly (outside of Kemba Walker, and maybe one or two others who had a moderate impact). There were no "instant franchise players" in the last 2-3 years (unless I forgot someone ?).

I'm just wondering as to why, even the rookies who were supposed to can't seem to really have a immediate impact in the last years. Because in the past, top rookies have been trusted to carry their team or at least pull their own weight, even those coming straight from High School.

It might be due to the evolution of the game, focusing more and more on teamplay and ball sharing rather than personal performance.

Edit: just saw the earlier posts and seeing how I seem to be the only one thinking that, my memory is probably playing tricks on me and even top rookies back then weren't as good as I thought.

Jibba

United States22883 Posts

December 02 2014 13:06 GMT

#968

IIRC Melo was a more impressive rookie that year than Lebron. Neither shot particularly well, but the Nuggets turnaround was a lot more substantial because it was in the West.

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

December 02 2014 13:09 GMT

#969

the rookies aren't doing well this year because all of them suck

oneofthem

Cayman Islands24199 Posts

December 02 2014 14:42 GMT

#970

On December 02 2014 17:03 LoneYoShi wrote:

Show nested quote +

Wiggins has been pretty underwhelming so far. Remember when LeBron, Wade, Chris Paul, etc came into the NBA ? They became instant superstars, and carried their respective teams straightaway. Seems that now, scouts are more attracted to an elusive "potential" rather than to already operationnal players.

it's very few games still, and he's been sick for the past week ever since the milwaukee game. apparently he was throwing up during the halftime breaks for the past few games.

with prospects at this raw level he has shown enough to display his potential. he has a good jumper, far better than what was scouted before the draft. he needs more muscles to finish better, but he's already drawing a lot of fouls and has nice body control in the air.

if he can improve his handles and motor, something that will happen more likely than not with acclimation and just playing basketball more, he still can reach his potential.

also, jabari parker is still not impacting the game much. his on-off stat is pretty horrendous so far. he mostly just finish around the rim at the moment, which gets him more efficient offensive stats, but those are not offense he created most of the time. rookies just face a tough learning curve in general, and the guys you see putting up stats are not always the best ones, because of the difference in role.

andrewlt

United States7702 Posts

December 02 2014 16:57 GMT

#971

Lebron and Durant shot around 40% their rookie year. They got their points from being inefficient, volume gunners. They got better their second year, made the leap in their third, regressed a bit in their fourth, then started tearing it up ever since. Kobe couldn't crack the starting line-up until the Lakers traded Eddie Jones away.

Wiggins' biggest problem is that he isn't assertive on offense. He isn't going to improve if he isn't getting enough reps.

Jaaaaasper

United States10225 Posts

December 02 2014 19:07 GMT

#972

So will the 6 and 76ers break the record for worst start to a season?

MassHysteria

United States3678 Posts

December 02 2014 19:24 GMT

#973

The difference between Lebron/Durant coming into the league and Wiggins/Parker are their bodies/physique coming into the league. Lebron had a man's body in HS and instantly had one of the best bodies in the NBA. Durant is tall given his skillset, and when you throw in his wingspan, the man in like over 8 feet tall. He is a giant given his freakishly long arms.

As for how good they are as players, there could still be an argument for Lebron and Durant being more ready than these guys(definitely Melo). Even throughout last season, I don't think people claimed this class was better than the 2003 class though. It was just the best class since then. And the best class since social-media has taken off the way it has (specially in sports) so the hype probably felt more than was warranted at times. There is still time to flesh it out like said already though.

nooboon

2602 Posts

December 02 2014 21:09 GMT

#974

This class can't be better than 2003 because 2003 has about 10 years of development. A year by year comparison would make more sense.
There is a lot of expectations on these rookies because of the year they were drafted. Bottom line is that they are still rookies and need to adapt to the NBA game. Not everyone is AD or Lillard (though lillard spent 4 years in college). We will see how good this draft class will be in four years. Bigger focus on developing players, controlling minutes so they don't get hurt/ play longer.
Also Parker second in rebounding for rookies with 6.1.
Heck even last years (2013) draft may not be as bad as people think.

The 2009 Nets began the season 0-18. If the sixers (0-17) lose to T-wolves then they tie the record. If they then lose to the thunder then they take the record.

Poll: Who will give the 76ers their first win?

T-Wolves (1)

17%

Thunder (1)

17%

Pistons (2)

33%

After the Pistons but before all-star weeked. (2)

33%

After All-star weekend (0)

0%

6 total votes

Your vote: Who will give the 76ers their first win?

(Vote): T-Wolves
(Vote): Thunder
(Vote): Pistons
(Vote): After the Pistons but before all-star weeked.
(Vote): After All-star weekend

karazax

United States3737 Posts

December 02 2014 21:41 GMT

#975

Durant is making his return tonight vs Pelicans

MassHysteria

United States3678 Posts

December 02 2014 21:50 GMT

#976

On December 03 2014 06:09 nooboon wrote:
This class can't be better than 2003 because 2003 has about 10 years of development.

C'mon man. Give me more credit than that. (I consider the 03 class "my class" btw. same age as me(lebron=1 year older) and graduated HS that same year, etc..)

I can agree we should let them finish the season before really even starting to judge them though.