EPTExtremely Upset with the Dynamo Supporters who Confronted and Stole from my family yesterday outside the stadium!
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2013 - 2014 Football Thread - Page 368
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Time to move on to the next thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sports/460943-2014-2015-football-thread | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28875 Posts
but there's no conflict between this and punishing divers and post-game punishment of horrendous tackles/other unsportsmanlike behavior. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=346330¤tpage=146#2912 On November 05 2013 09:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: https://twitter.com/MBustamante10/status/397396934354567168 + Show Spoiler + That's a great camera angle. Dat bend. | ||
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
On November 05 2013 08:00 Liquid`Drone wrote: bad offside calls is just a referee/linesman making a honest mistake. people diving is them being massive cunts. and generally, I try not to be angry at consequences, just at intent. if technology allows for offside calls to be correctly done in real time, that's awesome. we currently don't have that though. we do however, currently have the technology to identify (and punish) blatant divers. Exactly, offside needs to be a real time call because it affects the flow of the game too much. | ||
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warding
Portugal2397 Posts
What I'm saying is that a dive not sanctioned during a game is as serious an offense as a foul not sanctioned during a game. I wonder if Northern Europeans are more concerned about diving than about fouling because football in the North tends to be more physical and less about flair/dribbling/ball-control skills.  EDIT: Also, what's so special about Football as opposed to ice hockey, rugby or the NFL, for arguing that referees using video would take too long and disrupt the game? | ||
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
(of course the 2010 final was a disgrace from the Netherlands tho ). Anyway disruptive fouling is just as annoying as someone constantly lying on the floor so I agree with you there, but I do feel that both can be handled by a good ref either giving out quick punishment (disruptive fouling) or ignoring the matter (blatant theatrics). Regarding what is special about Football, nothing. You can just as easily use video footage in the time is spent arguing, but only for the fouls players are arguing for. Rugby matches generally flow well, but you really do not want persistent stoppages like NBA (of course time-outs play a huge role in this, but its more of a comparison to a sport which got out of hand with the stoppages). However offside calls is just a situation which is impossible to retract because the moment the whistle goes players behave differently. Put khedira 1on1 on the goalkeeper and he is onside, he'll miss. Put Khedira 1on1 when he is offside and he'll score. Retract the situation back and allow Ronaldo to take the freekick, he'll score. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28875 Posts
when someone dives, they're trying to impose a wrong punishment on the other team, either through a penalty or a red card. it's trying to manipulate the referee into wrongly doing his job. it's just downright scumbaggy. it's like someone playing 1v1 starcraft before replays existed (we did have tournaments back then), and then after losing, going back to the channel and claiming that they won. that's what diving represents. making a cynical foul is more like cheesing, sometimes it makes the game dirty/boring, but it's within the rules, and it's not a deliberate attempt at making the referee/tournament host doubt himself. sure, anyone who makes a foul expecting a yellow or red card would prefer if the referee makes the wrong call, but it's not diving. secondly, people who have called for post-game punishment of divers also call for post-game punishment of dangerous fouls that weren't called. but only the ones where a red card shouldve been given, otherwise it's just not significant enough. also, I think the whole, encircling of the referee is comparable to diving also and I would love to see it punished more. Like, what I would absolutely love to see, is a referee who just, before the game starts, tells both teams that only the captain of the teams is allowed to approach him and say anything to him. and then every time someone who isn't the captain does so, instant yellow card. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8916 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On November 05 2013 21:29 evilfatsh1t wrote: i dont understand why players go to surround referees and try to appeal decisions or whatever. when has a referee actually budged even with a whole team surrounding him? so stupid This is the reason i get pissed off in every La Liga game. I mean the football is 90% of the time very entertaining (especially this season) but every foul they surround the referee and complain or show imaginary cards and its so annoying. Spoils good games for me. | ||
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warding
Portugal2397 Posts
On November 05 2013 21:16 Liquid`Drone wrote: warding it's about the intent.. when someone makes a cynical foul, they're like, "ok, referee is gonna signal this and give me a yellow card". sometimes players even deliberately foul outside the 16 meter so they get a freekick + red card against. it's not breaking the rules, it's calculating that the punishment gotten from fouling is less than the punishment from not fouling. when someone dives, they're trying to impose a wrong punishment on the other team, either through a penalty or a red card. it's trying to manipulate the referee into wrongly doing his job. it's just downright scumbaggy. it's like someone playing 1v1 starcraft before replays existed (we did have tournaments back then), and then after losing, going back to the channel and claiming that they won. that's what diving represents. making a cynical foul is more like cheesing, sometimes it makes the game dirty/boring, but it's within the rules, and it's not a deliberate attempt at making the referee/tournament host doubt himself. sure, anyone who makes a foul expecting a yellow or red card would prefer if the referee makes the wrong call, but it's not diving. OK I think you nailed it with the 'deliberate attempt at making the referee doubt himself' argument. However, I'd counter with the "many fouls are not called, and unless players add theatrics to many of the challenges/tackles, the game would be unbalanced in favor of foulers" argument. In a game you'll get X amount of false negatives (fouls that not called), and Y amount of false positives (fouls that are called but shouldn't have been). If nobody dives, you'll get X > Y, almost certainly. That makes the game unbalanced in favor of foul play and physical behavior. Diving arguably levels the playing field towards X=Y, the balanced scenario between defensive play and offensive play. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18724 Posts
On November 05 2013 21:16 Liquid`Drone wrote: also, I think the whole, encircling of the referee is comparable to diving also and I would love to see it punished more. Like, what I would absolutely love to see, is a referee who just, before the game starts, tells both teams that only the captain of the teams is allowed to approach him and say anything to him. and then every time someone who isn't the captain does so, instant yellow card. there is no logical reason why this is not done by refs... Why does no one ask referees why they are not doing this | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
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smr
Germany4808 Posts
On November 06 2013 01:19 sharkie wrote: there is no logical reason why this is not done by refs... Why does no one ask referees why they are not doing this My memories might be wrong but I could swear that exactly this approach was discussed in Germany in one of the last years. After 2 weeks however it vanished again. Maybe there's too much interpretation necessary? What if a ref whistles and you're 3 metres away standing up after a tackle. A small comment is okay, but challenging the decision is worthy of yellow? I'm sure there is an elegant solution (we could just trust referees for once) and I would really like stricter rules on diving, encircling, etc. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18724 Posts
On November 06 2013 01:29 smr wrote: My memories might be wrong but I could swear that exactly this approach was discussed in Germany in one of the last years. After 2 weeks however it vanished again. Maybe there's too much interpretation necessary? What if a ref whistles and you're 3 metres away standing up after a tackle. A small comment is okay, but challenging the decision is worthy of yellow? I'm sure there is an elegant solution (we could just trust referees for once) and I would really like stricter rules on diving, encircling, etc. pretty sure swarming the ref does not need an interpretation :p | ||
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warding
Portugal2397 Posts
The NBA has very strict rules on players showing dissatisfaction and I think it's worked pretty well. | ||
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smr
Germany4808 Posts
On November 06 2013 01:35 sharkie wrote: pretty sure swarming the ref does not need an interpretation :p Yeah I know, I was more referring to Drone who, if I understood that correctly, was talking about single players who are not the captain. In that case there would only be one player but he should still be punished. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18724 Posts
On November 06 2013 01:41 warding wrote: It's not uncommon to have 6+ players circle a referee. It'd require a large pair to yellow card all of them. The NBA has very strict rules on players showing dissatisfaction and I think it's worked pretty well. Oh it's very uncommon in Germany, Austria... I don't know about other leagues, I only know El Classico where they do it 100% of the time | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
On November 05 2013 21:35 Pandemona wrote: This is the reason i get pissed off in every La Liga game. I mean the football is 90% of the time very entertaining (especially this season) but every foul they surround the referee and complain or show imaginary cards and its so annoying. Spoils good games for me. Howard Webb too? :D | ||
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