• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 20:10
CET 02:10
KST 10:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)15Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1828
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list? Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns
Tourneys
SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced WardiTV Winter Cup
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1881 users

NBA Offseason 2013 - Page 56

Forum Index > Sports
Post a Reply
Prev 1 54 55 56 57 58 90 Next
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13296 Posts
July 25 2013 00:51 GMT
#1101
Coverall stats aren't very effective but they're good for casual fans reading ESPN who don't have the time or inclination to go too far into individual advanced stats.

PER isn't completely without merit but there are far better advanced analytics algorithms available. PER just happens to try encapsulate everything into one for the average fan.

Everything you need to know about PER: Andray Blatche was rated a top 15 player, by PER, last year. Brook Lopez was #5 (!).

It vastly overrates scoring and doesn't take into account how detrimental a player can be to a team when he doesn't play defence (even if he can score well). See Al Jeff, Brook Lopez, Amare and Blatche. Tends to not take into account efficient scoring also and rewards chuckers.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
July 25 2013 00:57 GMT
#1102
somehow the thread always finds a way to bash PER, maybe more so than bash kobe and the lakers
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
seiferoth10
Profile Joined May 2010
3362 Posts
July 25 2013 16:56 GMT
#1103
Mike Miller on the Grizzlies. Provided he doesn't get hurt shooting threes, this should help immensely.
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
July 26 2013 00:42 GMT
#1104
John Wall
80 million united states dollars
starleague forever
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13296 Posts
July 26 2013 01:34 GMT
#1105
That contract has Rudy Gay written all over it.

It's unnerving dishing out max deals to guys with "potential".

Wall still has a lot of flaws in his game but hopefully he can put it together as he would be a really fun guy to watch if he can lift his game to top15 levels.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
July 26 2013 01:48 GMT
#1106
He's very close to top 15. Possibly even in it.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13296 Posts
July 26 2013 02:11 GMT
#1107
He had a good finish to last season. But I've seen plenty of guys run hot for 40 games and fade back to medicority.

I agree with what Washington has done--small market teams like that need to go large or go home. But it's still unnerving to dish out a contract like that to a guy based on his potential alone ala Rudy and the Grizz.

As for Wall being a top 15 player, I'm not even sure he cracks top 5 in the PG ranks:

CP3
Rose
Irving
Curry
Westrbook
Rondo
Dwill

I think all those guys are ahead of him currently but we'll see what next season brings.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
July 26 2013 02:18 GMT
#1108
Wall is definitely better than Rondo and as for now D-Will. He's also very close to offensive impact of Irving and Westbrook. Defensively his numbers have gone from awful, to good, to bad based on RAPM but Washington's defense looked very good with him last season. I don't think his contract is all potential based as he has a very good case for being that good. I don't know what else they could have signed him for.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13296 Posts
July 26 2013 02:31 GMT
#1109
Wall has made leaps in his game every year which is encouraging but he still doesn't do anything at a really elite level in the NBA yet for mine. The exception for that is probably his passing. He's has great awareness as a PG and is very effective in getting good shots for his team mates. His Ast% last year was right up there with the best passers in the NBA.

His scoring is getting there but he's still below average efficiency on high usage and FGAs. He has the tools on offence in terms of skill, speed and his ability to get to the FT line. He needs to keep hitting his mid-range jumpers and get some more range into his game if he's going to be effective against the really top defences who clamp down in the half-court. He just has to put it all together but that's a pretty big if you could apply to a lot of guys in the league.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
July 26 2013 02:34 GMT
#1110
agreed. My thing is I don't know how they could have paid him "less" since the best contract is the Steph Curry deal which happened because of an ankle injury.

Turn to NBA TV and watch this scrimmage! Awesome game.

Dion Waiters has fucking tunnel vision though and they won't pass Gordon Hayward the ball.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
July 26 2013 02:37 GMT
#1111
On July 26 2013 11:11 RowdierBob wrote:
He had a good finish to last season. But I've seen plenty of guys run hot for 40 games and fade back to medicority.

I agree with what Washington has done--small market teams like that need to go large or go home. But it's still unnerving to dish out a contract like that to a guy based on his potential alone ala Rudy and the Grizz.

As for Wall being a top 15 player, I'm not even sure he cracks top 5 in the PG ranks:

CP3
Rose
Irving
Curry
Westrbook
Rondo
Dwill

I think all those guys are ahead of him currently but we'll see what next season brings.


Insert Spurs inferiority complex here.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13296 Posts
July 26 2013 02:42 GMT
#1112
Omfg, I missed TP!

Shame on me. Shame.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
BoZiffer
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1841 Posts
July 26 2013 02:43 GMT
#1113
On July 26 2013 11:34 Ace wrote:
agreed. My thing is I don't know how they could have paid him "less" since the best contract is the Steph Curry deal which happened because of an ankle injury.

Turn to NBA TV and watch this scrimmage! Awesome game.

Dion Waiters has fucking tunnel vision though and they won't pass Gordon Hayward the ball.


You're giving tunnel vision way too much credit.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
July 26 2013 03:00 GMT
#1114
well ok - he's blind.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
MassHysteria
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3678 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-26 05:57:03
July 26 2013 05:56 GMT
#1115
Interesting... http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/41666640/
"Just ban all the J's...even jinklejoes" --unnamed source
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
July 26 2013 05:57 GMT
#1116
the thing that puzzles me about the Wall deal is, isn't he a restricted free agent after this year anyway? Why lock him up for 5 years/way too much money when you can just wait a season, see if his knee will actually hold up/his shooting has actually improved, then just match any offer that comes his way? Shave a year and millions off his contract, have enough money to sign Beal/whoever when they come off their rookie contracts.
beesinyoface
Profile Joined May 2012
2450 Posts
July 26 2013 06:03 GMT
#1117
On July 26 2013 14:57 DystopiaX wrote:
the thing that puzzles me about the Wall deal is, isn't he a restricted free agent after this year anyway? Why lock him up for 5 years/way too much money when you can just wait a season, see if his knee will actually hold up/his shooting has actually improved, then just match any offer that comes his way? Shave a year and millions off his contract, have enough money to sign Beal/whoever when they come off their rookie contracts.

People underestimate Wall's performance because they don't watch any of his games.

Dude is worth almost more than the contract he got, and he'll get Wizards into the playoffs this year, easily.
aaaaa
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-26 06:09:39
July 26 2013 06:07 GMT
#1118
On July 26 2013 15:03 beesinyoface wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 14:57 DystopiaX wrote:
the thing that puzzles me about the Wall deal is, isn't he a restricted free agent after this year anyway? Why lock him up for 5 years/way too much money when you can just wait a season, see if his knee will actually hold up/his shooting has actually improved, then just match any offer that comes his way? Shave a year and millions off his contract, have enough money to sign Beal/whoever when they come off their rookie contracts.

People underestimate Wall's performance because they don't watch any of his games.

Dude is worth almost more than the contract he got, and he'll get Wizards into the playoffs this year, easily.

I don't underestimate Wall. I think he's better than Kyrie and I think they can get 6th seed easy.

I'm just saying, why lock him up early when you can let a year play out? A big reason you're signing Wall is potential, and you have a year to see that happen. Hell, with his knee issues you can wait a year to make sure it's not a bum knee. Plus he's a restricted free agent, if you want to keep him you can keep him, and for likely less money than 5/80. The only reason I can see you giving him that extra year and however many million is if he's a dude that might walk for other franchises or w/e, but Wall has stated multiple times that he believes in the franchise, wants to carry them to the playoffs and beyond, trusts the organization, etc., so he's not a Joe Johnson in Phoenix or a Dwight in wherever or a Kevin Love in Minny.

Signing Wall a year early is almost as stupid as OKC letting Harden walk a year early for no reason.
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-26 06:11:15
July 26 2013 06:09 GMT
#1119
Not sold on the fact that he'll carry the Wizards to playoffs, but I do think he'll be an amazing player. Also, Wall is the only thing the Wizard's got. He's more than just a playoff chance. Without him the Wizards are just the bobcats and could probably barely fill half their seats. I also think Wall would be very willing to leave the Wizards granted an opportunity.

Also lol "believes in the Franchise". Come on. After a few more years of last place playoff births and misses that'll change anyone's attitude. I bet if you interviewed Lebron in his first 2-3 years he'd say similar things.
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
July 26 2013 06:11 GMT
#1120
On July 26 2013 15:09 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Not sold on the fact that he'll carry the Wizards to playoffs, but I do think he'll be an amazing player. Also, Wall is the only thing the Wizard's got. He's more than just a playoff chance. Without him the Wizards are just the bobcats and could probably barely fill half their seats.

Again, I agree with you, but you literally have NOTHING to lose by letting another year play out. Dude gets a career-ending knee injury? Saved yourself millions. Dude doesn't improve at all? Sign him for less. Other teams want him? You can match. And he's not going to Joe Johnson and ask you not to match either, since he's said that he loves the Wizards. You have nothing, literally nothing, to lose by waiting out a year.
Prev 1 54 55 56 57 58 90 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 50m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nathanias 143
CosmosSc2 46
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 720
Shuttle 578
Leta 177
910 32
NaDa 13
Dota 2
syndereN409
capcasts96
League of Legends
C9.Mang0387
Counter-Strike
summit1g5940
Foxcn329
taco 151
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox316
Mew2King113
AZ_Axe79
Other Games
tarik_tv6505
Liquid`RaSZi1973
FrodaN1199
shahzam590
B2W.Neo205
Maynarde137
ViBE117
KnowMe55
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3314
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 76
• davetesta39
• Mapu2
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki40
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift5330
• Scarra1526
Other Games
• imaqtpie2087
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
8h 50m
OSC
10h 50m
Jumy vs sebesdes
Nicoract vs GgMaChine
ReBellioN vs MaNa
Lemon vs TriGGeR
Gerald vs Cure
Creator vs SHIN
OSC
1d 10h
All Star Teams
2 days
INnoVation vs soO
Serral vs herO
Cure vs Solar
sOs vs Scarlett
Classic vs Clem
Reynor vs Maru
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
All Star Teams
3 days
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
OSC
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-14
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.