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On November 05 2011 07:01 eSBL wrote:Show nested quote +Well, suit yourself, but this is a major problem for me which will stop me playing. I'm usually asleep when betting closes and don't want to be disadvantaged because of major unpredicted swings in votes. Every winning bet I've made so far has returned less than I expected because the votes changed against my favour. The timezone issue is interesting, I have to make some numbers of who get stuck because of that depending on the tournaments. We thought at first that it would be pretty balanced because of the high quantity of esport tournaments nowadays, but it's clearly not that simple (especially with gsl and nasl matches around the same time). Show nested quote +This system completely invalidates standard betting strategies which are all based on static odds. High street bookmakers manage to make winners' money=losers' money (with a small % take for themselves) *and* have static odds for individual bets, so I'm not sure why you can't. I'm sure the maths of balancing such a system would be easy to find. It's not that hard to implement but we lack the database for the moment. We need a lot more results for each player to do the maths, which will mostly be a question of time, every week adds matches and results to the record. We feel that incorrect static odds would be a lot worse than the actual system. To be precise, as far as my knowledge go (but I would love to hear advice from a professional), bookmakers are making almost no money on expected results but A LOT from upsets. Their static odds for the upsets, even if they look high, aren't even close to the reality. Show nested quote +I really don't understand how such a broken system improves the competition aspect either. Maybe you didn't win an upset yet, those who bet on SuperNova (16.2) have a slightly idea of what I mean. If you decide to compete against those who take the safe choice, it might end up a huge success. Because when the safe choice loses 0.1 (like you saw), the upset odds win 1 to 3. Show nested quote +Anyway, you seem to have made a thought-out decision, though I thoroughly disagree with your reasoning. I guess I'll have to go back to my spreadsheet system based on real betting sites. Nothing is decided during the season 1 / beta. I'm pretty sure we will open a topic about the odds (because it's obviously a major point) on our forum. It's why feedback such as yourself is very important.
Hmm, maybe I didn't explain myself well enough. High street bookmakers don't just set static odds for matches when they open betting, and then just leave it. Rather, they have dynamic odds that adjust based on the amount of money on either side. Say an individual person, Bob, makes a bet of $10, on Idra in an Idra vs MVP matchup. At the time he makes the bet, the odds are 3/1 for Idra. But the odds will continue to be adjusted based on betting trends. Say, later on, people bet large money on Idra cause they think he's underrated, then maybe the odds will shift to 2/1. Then another individual, Jon, makes another $10 bet on Idra. In this situation, if Idra wins, then Bob will make $30, and Jon only $20. In your system, both Bob and Jon only win $20, which is unfair to Bob, as he made his bet based on 3/1 odds, not 2/1 odds.
Bookmakers do not rely on chance at all. They set the odds on either side with a small profit margin, and continually adjust those odds based on how much money is on either side. They'll make a profit no matter who wins (presuming that enough total money has been bet on either side - if the sums are too small, instabilities arise for several reasons which I won't explain here.) Obviously you don't need to set a profit margin into your odds cause it's only virtual money you're dealing with, but I think you should try to match the bookies' systems in its other respects.
There are parts I'm unsure of, of course, like how to set the initial odds (which would require player data, as you outline above). Also, such a system might have issues because people could take advantage of the initial instability of a bet (before sufficient money has been invested to prevent huge swings.) But I still think it's much better than continually adjusting the odds of a person's bet after that person has made the bet and gone to sleep.
Anyway, I apologise - I was too quick to condemn the whole project. It just sounded in your first reply like you already have your mind made up on this topic. I'll keep an eye on this with interest, though I still only intend to participate if it's "fixed". ;P
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I would really love to see my entire history of bets formatted in the same that it's done on the "Your Bets" side panel. I understand that there is a list of my entire betting history if I click the box with my bank sum within my profile, but they aren't labeled in a friendly way.
On a different note, I absolutely love this site! Keep up the great work!
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United States15275 Posts
Will you be covering the WCG games as well Mr. eSBL guy?
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United States15275 Posts
On November 05 2011 11:34 RAW-BERRY wrote:
I would really love to see my entire history of bets formatted in the same that it's done on the "Your Bets" side panel. I understand that there is a list of my entire betting history if I click the box with my bank sum within my profile, but they aren't labeled in a friendly way.
On a different note, I absolutely love this site! Keep up the great work!
This. The history can be very cluttered and confusing to sift through. At the very least the bets should be organized by day.
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I'll try to push a better bet history during Sunday update. Otherwise, I'll add it at the top of next week update list.
Will you be covering the WCG games as well Mr. eSBL guy?
Oh thanks, I don't know why the game aren't created, I'll solve that.
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I'm starting to wish we were betting real money. It turns out I'm quite good at predictions :D
Anyway, I'm really loving the idea and the site works very well. I always enjoyed Liquibets, but since it had only GSL and NASL I felt it was quite limited.
I hope you can keep it growing with the addition of more and more tournaments. I'm currently loving the presence of the ASUS ROG (and the fact that I'm sniping a lot of exact scores ♥).
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Damn I clean'd up after Idra's preformance...
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I just created the finals for ROG, you have only 30 minutes to bet for the Bronze match.
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Err, the bronze match was a Bo5, not a Bo7.
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Hey, had a quick skim of the thread and don't think it's been mentioned, what I'd really like you guys to do is have titles/info on the matches, give them some relevance. On the main page I've got "grand finals" (idra vs select) with no reference to the ASUS ROG. Then I've got a variety of matches which I assume are NASL, but I have no way of telling whether they're NASL, showmatches, arm wrestling, off race, whatever. Not only would it make it more interesting, but would also influence my betting (whether it's offline or online for example).
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There is a small issue on the display of our amount of euros once we reach 1K (Yes, I'm totally bragging, I played my first week of esbl like a fucking boss ^^) :
![[image loading]](http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1184/capturedcran20111105143.png)
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Err, the bronze match was a Bo5, not a Bo7.
Yeah, sorry I had to cancel :/.
Hey, had a quick skim of the thread and don't think it's been mentioned, what I'd really like you guys to do is have titles/info on the matches, give them some relevance. On the main page I've got "grand finals" (idra vs select) with no reference to the ASUS ROG. Then I've got a variety of matches which I assume are NASL, but I have no way of telling whether they're NASL, showmatches, arm wrestling, off race, whatever. Not only would it make it more interesting, but would also influence my betting (whether it's offline or online for example).
I don't want to spoil too much, but you will like sunday update.
There is a small issue on the display of our amount of euros once we reach 1K (Yes, I'm totally bragging, I played my first week of esbl like a fucking boss ^^)
Congrats ! Solved in Sunday update.
We decided not to do any maintenance during the week (it was so much easier when none was on the website), so IE fix will only be pushed on Sunday too. If you have friends telling they don't understand how it works or that nothing is working, ask them to use FF or chrome until Sunday midnight UTC.
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On November 06 2011 03:38 eSBL wrote:Yeah, sorry I had to cancel :/.
Do we get 75% of our bets back? :p
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On November 06 2011 03:58 Bromazepam wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 03:38 eSBL wrote:Err, the bronze match was a Bo5, not a Bo7. Yeah, sorry I had to cancel :/. Do we get 75% of our bets back? :p
100% of course ! Was there an issue with your refund ?
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On November 06 2011 05:05 eSBL wrote:
100% of course ! Was there an issue with your refund ?
No, I was making a joke about the "cancel"! 
(as in Starcraft terms, cancel a building and get 75% of the resources back)
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On November 06 2011 05:25 Bromazepam wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 05:05 eSBL wrote:
100% of course ! Was there an issue with your refund ? No, I was making a joke about the "cancel"! (as in Starcraft terms, cancel a building and get 75% of the resources back)
Oh, I was waking up. How did I miss that ^^.
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can you make the a page of last bets up to like 25 or so because after a while i can't see the older one, can't tell if i won or not
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can you make the a page of last bets up to like 25 or so because after a while i can't see the older one, can't tell if i won or not
With Sunday update, the "Your bets" on the right menu will display all the bets of the last 24 hours, and the one in your profile will display all the bets of the last 48 hours.
Next week, I'll do a proper bets history page (with stats and day selection).
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We decided to push a part of Sunday update in advance. Most of the visual changes. Feedback would be appreciated by the designer =-).
I'll make a proper patch note tomorrow with the rest of the update.
This first part solves the ie9 issues. You can tell to your internet explorer friends to come back, the bets will work.
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EPT
