tl;dr upfront: We’re two devs (pandaelf.com) working on an app called everyAir (everyair.net). It’s a remote desktop that’s fast enough to let you play fullscreen SC2 on your iDevices. Check out our video for SC2 in action. We’re looking for feedback from the TL community to find the right UI/controls to make playing SC2 enjoyable on touch devices. We’ll give free coupons to anyone that emails us, but we’re limited by Apple to 50 per version so they run out fast. You probably won’t ever get an Artosis GSL winner interview rocking an iPad, but we think that gaming on touch devices can evolve beyond launching birds and slicing fruits.
The longer version:
We’re two former BigCo engineers turned indie devs risking sanity and savings pursuing “the dream.” Our company is called pandaelf (pandaelf.com). Naturally, we’re huge nerds, and of course SC2 fans.
We’ve recently released an iOS app called everyAir (everyair.net). It’s a remote desktop that’s fast enough to play games and movies. The framerate and image quality easily supports full streaming video. For example, you could very easily watch Artosis getting trolled by all the Grack (Hi, MichaelGrackson!) name variants.
All of that brings us to this post: we want feedback on how to make our app better so that SC2 is enjoyably playable. We want to find out how to make gaming on touch devices be something more than launching birds or slicing fruits.
Check out our video and you’ll see it in action:
We're well aware you're never going to achieve 500APM and insaaane marine micro on a touch device, but we suspect that with some skills and practice, it is doable to at least beat decent opponents. For what it's worth, we're both mid-diamond level players, and on a new account we were able to beat silver level players with 1 base all-ins.
Part of the motivation behind the app is to make it so that desktop games are playable on touch devices. Additionally, we're trying to figure out what kinds of UI will really support complex games so that in the future we can make a game native to these devices. Complex games can, and will, exist on touch devices, it's a matter of making the right game with the right interface.
While it’s going to be really hard to dethrone mouse and keyboard, there’s large potential for evolution in this area. One interesting use we’ve already found is to turn the iPad into a display for just your minimap (which makes it significantly easier to spot unit movement). Will something ever replace mouse/kb? We’re not sure, but it seems likely.
All that said, everyAir definitely lets you play SC2 right now. You can perform all you need: left click, right click, and click drag. It’s all done via taps, gestures, and our double d-pad controllers. We need feedback to make it better, however. And that’s why we’re here.
We’d love to hear feedback: Since the app isn’t free, if you email us : hello@everyair.net we'll hook you up with a free coupon. Apple only gives you 50 at a time so we'll hand them out while supplies last (they do go fast). Additionally, thoughts and input on the app and on the general topic are also very much appreciated: could someone win a diamond game only using an iPad/iPhone? Can we ever hope to see someone win a GSL season not using a mouse/kb as primary input device?
We’re committed to making this the best gaming experience possible, and we need critical feedback to get there. Gamers are by far the most critical audience, so, please, bombs away!
I really don't want to destroy your hopes but I don't think a lot of people will want to play sc2 on their iPads, it just seems too hard no matter what controls/gestures you use. I am, however, pretty sure that if this app lets you view replays on an iPad or iPhone, you're gonna have a shit ton of new customers.
Whoa, that's sick cool- don't know how useful it would be per say, but definitely cool. I just can't imagine it being worth it to play SC2 on an ipad, maybe customs- but then there's a plethora of other games I could play instead. It seems like doing so would just be playing SC2 for the sake of it, not because it would actually be worthwhile. Again, observing, customs, ect would probably be fine. I think it's cool that you can actually do other stuff though, like watch movies and access your pc.
On December 08 2010 02:30 TeMiL wrote: "It’s a remote desktop that’s fast enough" but it seems like u need a good bandwith in your ipad and in your desktop remoted
What were the connections you were working with, and what was the latency between the two?
I agree with people saying that not many gamers will want to play SC2 on their iPads or iPhones. The different actions you can perform with your units are made to accommodate mouse/keyboard input. I don't know the specifics on the controls of everyAir but I don't think that you could reach the APM required to do the basics (move your army around, and produce units). Personally I wouldn't consider playing SC2 on a touch device if I wasn't able to group units/buildings into a hotkey. Like others, I could see this being incredibly useful to observe games of friends playing at home on their PCs or perhaps watching replays when you have some downtime during your day.
Regardless, I think this is a great idea. I think a few years ago I saw some videos where someone played WoW on their iPod Touch or something but it was faked. It's great to see things like this actually being developed.
I personally don't have an iPad or iPhone otherwise I'd love to help you test it and give you feedback.
Hehe, as a coincidence, I and my friend recently were discussing Starcraft Broodwar's possibility to play on a mobile device )))))))))) Nice job anyways!
On December 08 2010 02:34 RaGe wrote: Wow this is pretty interesting.
How is your replay viewing functionality?
I really don't want to destroy your hopes but I don't think a lot of people will want to play sc2 on their iPads, it just seems too hard no matter what controls/gestures you use. I am, however, pretty sure that if this app lets you view replays on an iPad or iPhone, you're gonna have a shit ton of new customers.
edit: And obsing games of course
Battlecraft, Circle TD etc etc are all perfectly suitable to play on the iPad. So are Obsing games + watching replays. Playing the RTS SC2 though, this will never be a big selling point for this iOS... Perhaps aiming at Heroes of M&M or some other fun turnbased game strategy...?
Of all of the games I've seen ported to iPad/Pod (Cube remake comes to mind), SC2 is the only one which has a remotely suitable user interface.
Honestly, everything seems like it would work.
One finger for left click, two fingers for right click. One finger-dragged: scroll boxes units. Two finger-dragged: scroll the actual screen.
All the hotkeys would have to be selected from the bottom right corner, and the minimap would be really easy to navigate, however I think certain elements of the User Interface would need to be changed and considering it's a remote desktop, that would be impossible. What I was thinking was increasing the size of the army commands box so the buttons would be easier to hit with less misclicks.
If you guys wanna start practicing for such play, try using a trackpad to play SC2. Kinda makes me less optimistic about this idea.
Overall it seems like it would work pretty well, but simple stuff like landing a floating building would require a lot more "clicks" without a hotkey + with the whole touch screen GUI.
Still, interesting idea!
PS: PLEASE DO NOT USE ANY OF THAT ACCELEROMETER/GYROSCOPE CRAP FOR CONTROLLING ANYTHING!!!
edit: Meanwhile, you could attach a keyboard to an iPad, but this is really no different than using a laptop to play starcraft 2.
edit2: How's about an iPod Touch/iPhone version? I could totally watch a game on that screen, in fact I have. It would be more difficult to navigate however, and a lot of navigation would be required to optimize it for iPhone. Pinch to zoom would be invaluable, while keyboard navigation is a little less necessary. Universal Binary!
On December 08 2010 02:33 ScDeluX wrote: It is pretty big for ppl who would want to obs a game in b.net not being on a computer. I can see some uses for this outside of playing.
On December 08 2010 02:57 Kinney wrote: Of all of the games I've seen ported to iPad/Pod (Cube remake comes to mind), SC2 is the only one which has a remotely suitable user interface.
Honestly, everything seems like it would work.
One finger for left click, two fingers for right click. One finger-dragged: scroll boxes units. Two finger-dragged: scroll the actual screen.
All the hotkeys would have to be selected from the bottom right corner, and the minimap would be really easy to navigate, however I think certain elements of the User Interface would need to be changed and considering it's a remote desktop, that would be impossible. What I was thinking was increasing the size of the army commands box so the buttons would be easier to hit with less misclicks.
If you guys wanna start practicing for such play, try using a trackpad to play SC2. Kinda makes me less optimistic about this idea.
Overall it seems like it would work pretty well, but simple stuff like landing a floating building would require a lot more "clicks" without a hotkey + with the whole touch screen GUI.
Still, interesting idea!
PS: PLEASE DO NOT USE ANY OF THAT ACCELEROMETER/GYROSCOPE CRAP FOR CONTROLLING ANYTHING!!!
edit: Meanwhile, you could attach a keyboard to an iPad, but this is really no different than using a laptop to play starcraft 2.
why would you attach a keyboard? You could use a laptop if you were going to do that. iPad would just lag your game out. I dont think you could observe because of the slowness of the iPad. Its cool to see but not useable in the slightest. lol practicing to play on an iPad. . no way this will be anything more than a ploy to advertise the iPad.
I agree with the sentiments of focussing a lot on making replay watching and live-observing very smooth. I can totally see myself downloading a bunch of replays taking the ipad to the couch or bed and just watch a few replays like that as if you're watching a movie. Or logging on to bnet from my ipad to follow the practice sessions of the Liquid guys :p
Awesome project and even more awesome you're using the TL community for input.
is this remote desktop testing within an enclosed network environment or on separate real world broadband connections for real world use? ie desktop running remote service at home and ipad in a coffee shop, friends house, or hotel
speeds will vary significantly with realistic use. still cool none the less
On December 08 2010 03:31 sqwert wrote: I see more potential in playing custom sc2 games rather than playing competitive melee games on the ipad.
Definitely agree with this. While I don't see many people picking this up to try and attempt to win competitive ladder matches on their iPad, the potential to play numerous other games/etc on you iPad is huge.
also wanted to note that many pro-gamers i know personally have stated reasons for not wanting too big of a display (24" is already too wide for many top players) because the minimap is just too far away from peripheral vision to keep a close eye on and too far away to click quickly and accurately enough. a separate screen may or may not be a good thing in this case
I got a code from the devs after the last post they made (before they paid for the sponsored thread) and I've finally gotten a chance to play with it. Unfortunately, I had an issue where the app would crash to the dock immediately after launch but after updating my iPad to iOS 4.2 and downloading their update, the app has been working flawlessly.
I haven't had a whole lot of time to play with the app but here are my first impressions:
Pros -It's SC2 on your iPad and it's awesome -The snap to window functionality is really nice -Could be really nice for obsing or watching replays -Did I mention it's SC2 on your iPad?
Cons -Input delay is definitely noticeable (not game breaking but annoying) -Image quality could be better (looks like a non-HD stream on livestream/ustream) -Inputs such as click+drag (boxing) are sometime difficult
I'm sure a lot of the cons can be alleviated and/or fixed with tweaking and more experience with the apps (especially the inputs). I've really only used the app for a short period of time (loaded app, opened SC2, and fooled around against a easy comp for a couple minutes). I'll update this post after I've gotten a chance to play around more.
TL;DR: I think everyAir is a really cool app and it could be really fun once you get used to it. Will someone win a game in diamond with it? At the moment, probably not, but my opinion could change with more experience.
I can see this being really awesome, just I don't think it'll work too well for any sort of 1v1 as it's just not accurate nor fast enough. This would be awesome for games such as WoW or movies though.
Like many other people have said already, I don't feel like people would actually use this to play SC2 but on the other hand I think this would be VERY useful for watching replays with friends.
well when i play wow or sc2 i press my hotkeys very hard dont know if this is optimal for a touch screen but for brainless grinding ( in wow ) it probably would be enough
Like people have said before me, don't focus on the gaming part since I don't believe any serious sc gamer (like most people on tl.net, and most people that would be interested in this app, are), but put all energy on making observing and replay watching smooth. If that can be managed this will be awesome!
On December 08 2010 03:50 hucskool wrote: I got a code from the devs after the last post they made (before they paid for the sponsored thread) and I've finally gotten a chance to play with it. Unfortunately, I had an issue where the app would crash to the dock immediately after launch but after updating my iPad to iOS 4.2 and downloading their update, the app has been working flawlessly.
I haven't had a whole lot of time to play with the app but here are my first impressions:
Pros -It's SC2 on your iPad and it's awesome -The snap to window functionality is really nice -Could be really nice for obsing or watching replays -Did I mention it's SC2 on your iPad?
Cons -Input delay is definitely noticeable (not game breaking but annoying) -Image quality could be better (looks like a non-HD stream on livestream/ustream) -Inputs such as click+drag (boxing) are sometime difficult
I'm sure a lot of the cons can be alleviated and/or fixed with tweaking and more experience with the apps (especially the inputs). I've really only used the app for a short period of time (loaded app, opened SC2, and fooled around against a easy comp for a couple minutes). I'll update this post after I've gotten a chance to play around more.
TL;DR: I think everyAir is a really cool app and it could be really fun once you get used to it. Will someone win a game in diamond with it? At the moment, probably not, but my opinion could change with more experience.
are you testing this within your enclosed network or from a separate connection from your server?
A SC2 replay app for the iPhone, iPad could be a great idea. Would help casters sift through replays on the go. However, I don't think I would want to play an RTS game on a touch screen.
On December 08 2010 02:57 Kinney wrote: Of all of the games I've seen ported to iPad/Pod (Cube remake comes to mind), SC2 is the only one which has a remotely suitable user interface.
Honestly, everything seems like it would work.
One finger for left click, two fingers for right click. One finger-dragged: scroll boxes units. Two finger-dragged: scroll the actual screen.
All the hotkeys would have to be selected from the bottom right corner, and the minimap would be really easy to navigate, however I think certain elements of the User Interface would need to be changed and considering it's a remote desktop, that would be impossible. What I was thinking was increasing the size of the army commands box so the buttons would be easier to hit with less misclicks.
If you guys wanna start practicing for such play, try using a trackpad to play SC2. Kinda makes me less optimistic about this idea.
Overall it seems like it would work pretty well, but simple stuff like landing a floating building would require a lot more "clicks" without a hotkey + with the whole touch screen GUI.
Still, interesting idea!
PS: PLEASE DO NOT USE ANY OF THAT ACCELEROMETER/GYROSCOPE CRAP FOR CONTROLLING ANYTHING!!!
edit:[b] Meanwhile, you could attach a keyboard to an iPad, but this is really no different than using a laptop to play starcraft 2.[b]
why would you attach a keyboard? You could use a laptop if you were going to do that.
Dude you're saying the same thing I did, obviously there would be no point in plugging a keyboard in. Other than hotkeys, which for now there's no reasonable option for.
It wouldn't be super feasible but it would be cool to do it.
I'm pretty sure supporting this is a bad and evil idea. Touchscreen gaming is an even more deadly disease than console gaming and both are killing the gaming industry faster than I thought would be possible.
lol.. beating silver players as mid diamond all-ins.. lol that doesnt say much. Although I havent been a silver in a long time.. even platinum players are bad so I cant even imagine silver.. Watching replays or observing woudl be cool thoug.h.
Sounds very cool - an incredible development for gaming; particularly for observing and replays etc. Actually playing the game however would be really interesting - i wander how it would work functionality wise..
To be able to play sc2 portably would truly be incredible!
it does sound awesome but the problem is that when you connect to the computer, its most likely that you have your computer nearby so why just dont play it on the CPU, even if you have mac get the latest software, it allows you to play all this games, except the ones that say "PC only"
I don't see myself using this app to play 1v1 games, but I can totally see this app being used for casual games like tower defenses or maybe some tug o war.
Guys I do not get it. How is an ipad able to play a graphic and cpu intensive game like SC2. Wont it lag like mad? It is boggling my mind.
Well lets say it can play sc2 well via this remote desktop magic. Then isn't there the great possibility of making older computers be able to run SC2?!
On December 08 2010 08:10 zak wrote: Guys I do not get it. How is an ipad able to play a graphic and cpu intensive game like SC2. Wont it lag like mad? It is boggling my mind.
Well lets say it can play sc2 well via this remote desktop magic. Then isn't there the great possibility of making older computers be able to run SC2?!
No. Remote desktop just means it's streaming interactive video of what's happening on your PC. Your PC is running SC2, the iPad just shows you what the PC display shows.
Sounds awesome, I will definitely use it to watch reps on my iPad, and will give playing a shot too. Bought everyAir because i'm all about supporting indie software development + Show Spoiler +
and because I still haven't spent my iTunes gift card from last christmas
On December 08 2010 08:10 zak wrote: Guys I do not get it. How is an ipad able to play a graphic and cpu intensive game like SC2. Wont it lag like mad? It is boggling my mind.
Well lets say it can play sc2 well via this remote desktop magic. Then isn't there the great possibility of making older computers be able to run SC2?!
No. Remote desktop just means it's streaming interactive video of what's happening on your PC. Your PC is running SC2, the iPad just shows you what the PC display shows.
Oh i see but you are still playing the game on the ipad right? So interactive streaming?! wtf
On December 08 2010 08:10 zak wrote: Guys I do not get it. How is an ipad able to play a graphic and cpu intensive game like SC2. Wont it lag like mad? It is boggling my mind.
Well lets say it can play sc2 well via this remote desktop magic. Then isn't there the great possibility of making older computers be able to run SC2?!
No. Remote desktop just means it's streaming interactive video of what's happening on your PC. Your PC is running SC2, the iPad just shows you what the PC display shows.
Oh i see but you are still playing the game on the ipad right? So interactive streaming?! wtf
Well, you can control your PC interface from your iPad, but it's the PC that's running the game. It's like if the iPad was your PC monitor.
On December 08 2010 08:10 zak wrote: Guys I do not get it. How is an ipad able to play a graphic and cpu intensive game like SC2. Wont it lag like mad? It is boggling my mind.
Well lets say it can play sc2 well via this remote desktop magic. Then isn't there the great possibility of making older computers be able to run SC2?!
No. Remote desktop just means it's streaming interactive video of what's happening on your PC. Your PC is running SC2, the iPad just shows you what the PC display shows.
Oh i see but you are still playing the game on the ipad right? So interactive streaming?! wtf
Well, you can control your PC interface from your iPad, but it's the PC that's running the game. It's like if the iPad was your PC monitor.
Thanks man! I understand now ^^
Then couldn't they do this for Windows PC netbooks? Giving other PCs the ability to stream your own gaming desktop and control it via another low grade computer? Wow the possibilities are endless...
On December 08 2010 08:10 zak wrote: Guys I do not get it. How is an ipad able to play a graphic and cpu intensive game like SC2. Wont it lag like mad? It is boggling my mind.
Well lets say it can play sc2 well via this remote desktop magic. Then isn't there the great possibility of making older computers be able to run SC2?!
No. Remote desktop just means it's streaming interactive video of what's happening on your PC. Your PC is running SC2, the iPad just shows you what the PC display shows.
Oh i see but you are still playing the game on the ipad right? So interactive streaming?! wtf
Well, you can control your PC interface from your iPad, but it's the PC that's running the game. It's like if the iPad was your PC monitor.
Thanks man! I understand now ^^
Then couldn't they do this for Windows PC netbooks? Giving other PCs the ability to stream your own gaming desktop and control it via another low grade computer? Wow the possibilities are endless...
Great product btw!
There are already programs that let you do this between 2 PCs, mostly so you can control your work PC from home, or use your laptop to control a desktop. The only issue for gaming is that because you have to go from Laptop->PC->Battle.net->PC->Laptop there is a bit of extra latency. You also need a pretty stable internet or wifi connection.
On December 08 2010 08:10 zak wrote: Guys I do not get it. How is an ipad able to play a graphic and cpu intensive game like SC2. Wont it lag like mad? It is boggling my mind.
Well lets say it can play sc2 well via this remote desktop magic. Then isn't there the great possibility of making older computers be able to run SC2?!
No. Remote desktop just means it's streaming interactive video of what's happening on your PC. Your PC is running SC2, the iPad just shows you what the PC display shows.
Oh i see but you are still playing the game on the ipad right? So interactive streaming?! wtf
Well, you can control your PC interface from your iPad, but it's the PC that's running the game. It's like if the iPad was your PC monitor.
Thanks man! I understand now ^^
Then couldn't they do this for Windows PC netbooks? Giving other PCs the ability to stream your own gaming desktop and control it via another low grade computer? Wow the possibilities are endless...
Great product btw!
There are already programs that let you do this between 2 PCs, mostly so you can control your work PC from home, or use your laptop to control a desktop. The only issue for gaming is that because you have to go from Laptop->PC->Battle.net->PC->Laptop there is a bit of extra latency. You also need a pretty stable internet or wifi connection.
OOOO could you tell me the best program you have used for this ability? I would love to try it out!
Wow that's awesome! If I had an iPad I would totally give you my money. Unfortunately I just bought a macbook pro so I'm a bit low on money but damn If you have one, and then for only 3.99, I think that's a pretty sweet deal. I would use it mainly for watching replays.
It seems to have been said a few times, but just the ability to observe games, as well as watch replays would be an amazing feature, and alone would make me consider going out and buying an iPad.
I'd be very interested to use this for watching replays in bed But I have no interest to actually try and play it, as it would be far too troublesome and I may as well just play on the nearby computer.
I've seen some reviews of the everyAir on youtube and, not to burst anyone's bubble, but everything the guy tried to play ran incredibly bad. Even the log in screen of starcraft lagged so bad that he was unbearable to watch. I don't think that were getting the full story here yet and you should probably check out some other videos.
On December 08 2010 11:11 gta1 wrote: I've seen some reviews of the everyAir on youtube and, not to burst anyone's bubble, but everything the guy tried to play ran incredibly bad. Even the log in screen of starcraft lagged so bad that he was unbearable to watch. I don't think that were getting the full story here yet and you should probably check out some other videos.
It probably requires ridiculous bandwidth on both sides.
I don't know how great it would be for playing, but I think it would be nice for watching replays and observing and stuff when you can't get onto your computer.
Definitely cool. Not for StarCraft, necessarily, but for all of the other things you can do with it. Seems to be a very high-quality VNC with very nice controls.
I played SC1 almost entirely with a laptop touchpad.. I gotta say, it's great for a couple hours, but then your finger starts on fire! :D
I am curious about the bandwidth needed.. even wireless N seems like it can't do it, with companies like Microsoft behind it, but gigabit ethernet should be able to.
On December 08 2010 11:11 gta1 wrote: I've seen some reviews of the everyAir on youtube and, not to burst anyone's bubble, but everything the guy tried to play ran incredibly bad. Even the log in screen of starcraft lagged so bad that he was unbearable to watch. I don't think that were getting the full story here yet and you should probably check out some other videos.
It probably requires ridiculous bandwidth on both sides.
Yeah, at the start of the video in the OP he seemingly logs in through a LAN address, so I would assume it requires a LAN connection for it to be as smooth.
RTS games such as SC2 i don't think would be enjoyable to play on a touch screen, however watching it's another story. Other games that aren't so "APM" intense would be playable tho.
Is your development strategy focusing specfically on the gaming applications or are you also just trying to be the best RDP around? For anyone using this currently: Do the interface and input controls there for gaming get in the way of doing things like viewing large PDFs(200MB+) that a phone can't load properly on its own?
Can I use it to play Runescape on my iPhone? If yes I will buy it, if not, making some way for me too and I will buy that :D But does seem a good app, would buy if I had an iPad (Or if it can play RS on iPhones)
I don't have an iPad (yet), but a friend of mine who's an audio engineer does, and he would love to be able to use his iPad as an extension for Apple's Logic Pro. If everyAir let's you connect to one of the virtual screens in OS X's Spaces, he would be able to do exactly that. I'm betting that a lot of audio engineers are going to want to buy your app if you include this functionality, as the Logic community has been screaming for the ability to do this.
On December 08 2010 11:11 gta1 wrote: I've seen some reviews of the everyAir on youtube and, not to burst anyone's bubble, but everything the guy tried to play ran incredibly bad. Even the log in screen of starcraft lagged so bad that he was unbearable to watch. I don't think that were getting the full story here yet and you should probably check out some other videos.
It probably requires ridiculous bandwidth on both sides.
Yeah, at the start of the video in the OP he seemingly logs in through a LAN address, so I would assume it requires a LAN connection for it to be as smooth.
hrm if you can do it through a lan connection though then it's still a (less) interesting applicaiton. That being said, I find it hard to believe that you can't find some sort of remote destkop implementation on the ipad..
First of all, big thanks for all the encouraging words as well as the skeptical comments.
We've been able to give almost everyone with an iPad a coupon. We've got a version sitting with Apple for over a week now, so as soon as it's approved we'll have more coupons.
Some clarifications/points:
Features/support:
iPhone support? Very very soon. We'll have this submitted to Apple within a week.
Audio support? Also a "very very soon" feature for us. Obviously important.
OSX support? We already have it, but it's in beta right now. Of course we're happy to let anyone from TL into the beta. It's actually faster than the Windows version because screencapture in Mac is much more solid than Windows. Go figure.
Ability to use iPad as if it were just a 2nd monitor (would appear in system settings)? Coming in January.
Android support? We plan to look into this in 2011.
General: Will this ever work over non-local WiFi? Yep. The bandwidth costs aren't excessive. It depends on the specifics (for example, a music video has lots of fast cuts with huge changes from frame to frame), but there's some heavy lifting that happens on the server side to make sure each frame is as small as possible. Additionally, SC2 is relatively constant from frame to frame (static ground consumes much of your frame). With a solid 200kb up/down connection, you'd have more than enough. Local WiFi is obviously way more than enough.
Can this be used to observe or watch replays? Yeah, for sure. We've worked really hard to make the FPS, dropped frames, and particularly latency be as good as possible.
Do you really think someone could play using this on an iPad? We think so, yeah. It's really hard right now because SC2 specific UI. But imagine having precanned instruction sets, and a way to easily make control groups. The main challenge is going to be good micro, but there's no reason why you couldn't macro "decently" (where decently is, of course, relative).
I'll make another post with some more individualized replies.
On December 08 2010 02:34 RaGe wrote: Wow this is pretty interesting.
How is your replay viewing functionality?
I really don't want to destroy your hopes but I don't think a lot of people will want to play sc2 on their iPads, it just seems too hard no matter what controls/gestures you use. I am, however, pretty sure that if this app lets you view replays on an iPad or iPhone, you're gonna have a shit ton of new customers.
edit: And obsing games of course
Replays work just as you would expect. It looks really nice. Of course, you can click all the buttons to play/stop/fast forward. We've done a lot of work to make sure SC2's "Fullscreen" mode works as well.
As for playing, I think you're right in that it will be pretty hard to be competitive with this. But for example, you'll be able to play Nexus Wars without any problems at all. We also think it could be possible to do "OK" using this with the right set of additional controls.
On December 08 2010 02:36 emperorchampion wrote: Whoa, that's sick cool- don't know how useful it would be per say, but definitely cool. I just can't imagine it being worth it to play SC2 on an ipad, maybe customs- but then there's a plethora of other games I could play instead. It seems like doing so would just be playing SC2 for the sake of it, not because it would actually be worthwhile. Again, observing, customs, ect would probably be fine. I think it's cool that you can actually do other stuff though, like watch movies and access your pc.
What were the connections you were working with, and what was the latency between the two?
A normal D-link wireless network with the iPad and a computer connected to it. Latency under ideal conditions is sub-200ms, and if everything is absolutely perfect it's below 100. If you're watching video, you won't notice at all.
We're going to add non-local WiFi at some point in mid January. It could work right now, the bandwidth consumption is actually really low - specially in SC2. If you think about your average SC2 frame, it's basically static with relatively little in motion.
On December 08 2010 11:11 gta1 wrote: I've seen some reviews of the everyAir on youtube and, not to burst anyone's bubble, but everything the guy tried to play ran incredibly bad. Even the log in screen of starcraft lagged so bad that he was unbearable to watch. I don't think that were getting the full story here yet and you should probably check out some other videos.
This is fair criticism. However, we've made significant strides in evening out performance across a range of computers and networks. Additionally, our videos aren't faked at all - that's exactly how the app performs in "ideal" conditions.
Most gamers will have a router built in the last 5 years, a dual core CPU, and a dedicated GFX card. In any case, our definition of "ideal" has drastically expanded in the last several weeks, and over time it will continue to expand. The "floor" what you need hardware wise for this to run well is pretty low.
This is really awesome guys, if works well i can see it being successful for WoW deff. Doing dailies and such. However for SC2 i can see like doing custom games, watching replays and such would be its only use which is fine! i woudn't mind that at all def. intersting depending on price i would deff. purchase this
There's a reason mechanics don't buy Chryslers and IT people don't own apple products. Marketing a game oriented product to people that own apple products is like creating a 700hp twin turbo v10 that drops into a prius.
I got it and it is quite awesome just as long as you can connect to your computer (or rather the server on the computer) I find it best to use to watch replays while eating breakfast or something like that, it allows you to get a change of scenery and clear your mind to look at replays in a different environment. It really helps you see any problems a lot clearer I personally love it as for WoW, combat is a little weird but with getting used to it could be awesome! I highly recommend it to everyone who has an iPad it is quite the killer app in my humble opinion
maybe if there was a way to attach a mouse, and the keyboard would be less necessary because the icons will be touchable. I don't see it happening. it's hard to be more portable and efficient than a laptop. but yeah too some guy early. it would be great for replays and obs.. lan partys would be awesome. but I have a feeling that it would have crazy lag.
I'm really excited about this. I hope this goes really far.
I, being an Android user, would love to see it ported to the Android. That would make me pretty happy - and I'd definitely get it. Remote desktop on Android at good speeds would be nifty.
Also, I really hope you guys start creating these complex games for the touch screen devices that you talk about. The best I've seen so far is emulated games from Gameboys/Playstations and such - I'd love to see similar to desktop games in complexity put into touch screens (Again, especially the Android).
i think is good for not hardcore gamers (( Tl members gousygamers etc)) might be a good idea if you guys did a poll on some other website you might find your fan base if you wanna call it that i hope do well with the idea its kinda fun thank you
I'm liking it so far, but I'm getting about a second or so of screen lag that really kills the reactions I need to do. Is this just a problem with my connection or does anyone else get it?
had issues connecting to host computer a couple of times and sometimes freezes while in-game. add an escape key to the keyboard because right now, the only way i am able to exit the game is from the host computer. other than that, pretty neat little app to be able to remote desktop, connection was enough for most simple tasks. i bought this app for the novelty but could definitely see myself using it more heavily once a little more development goes into it!
On December 08 2010 02:34 RaGe wrote: Wow this is pretty interesting.
How is your replay viewing functionality?
I really don't want to destroy your hopes but I don't think a lot of people will want to play sc2 on their iPads, it just seems too hard no matter what controls/gestures you use. I am, however, pretty sure that if this app lets you view replays on an iPad or iPhone, you're gonna have a shit ton of new customers.
edit: And obsing games of course
Battlecraft, Circle TD etc etc are all perfectly suitable to play on the iPad. So are Obsing games + watching replays. Playing the RTS SC2 though, this will never be a big selling point for this iOS... Perhaps aiming at Heroes of M&M or some other fun turnbased game strategy...?
This!!!! For professional players, being able to watch replays while being in a bus, in the metro, or whatever, would be great and also playing some TD before going to sleep from the comfort of their bed would be freaking awesome jaja
I wish someone could make something like this for my netbook . I could see it really working for custom maps ( star battle would make an awesome Ipad game). Maybe I should steal the Ipad my mother bought 3 month ago and never used ^^.
Get it on something other than a crapple device and I'll be interested. I can only see this being useful for spectating though so try to gear the controls towards that. Don't bother optimizing for actual gameplay.
Just made some videos showing playing Nexus Wars, and then showing just general replay watching.
Nexus Wars:
Watching a replay:
RE: Will this ever be on anything other than a "Crapple" device?
Definitely in our plans. The way we developed this was by first starting from Windows to Windows machine. We're also looking at porting to Android at some point soon.
For those of you wondering about OSX and iPhone, we'll be done with the OSX server today, and then submitting the iPhone version early this coming week.
On December 11 2010 11:56 Juliette wrote: I'm liking it so far, but I'm getting about a second or so of screen lag that really kills the reactions I need to do. Is this just a problem with my connection or does anyone else get it?
Could be your connection. That latency is really high. Mind shooting us an email so we can debug this?
On December 11 2010 18:32 Paulzor wrote: had issues connecting to host computer a couple of times and sometimes freezes while in-game. add an escape key to the keyboard because right now, the only way i am able to exit the game is from the host computer. other than that, pretty neat little app to be able to remote desktop, connection was enough for most simple tasks. i bought this app for the novelty but could definitely see myself using it more heavily once a little more development goes into it!
This is fair criticism, and something we're working hard to solve. Connection and crashes are issues we're still ironing out over a wide variety of hardware and network setups. I'm interested in hearing how the app froze in game though. Could you send us an email?
Aside from general stability and connectivity, we also plan on adding an escape key, as well as a slew of configurable UI so you can make your own buttons.
Thanks everyone for your feedback and support. Feel free to email us directly as well if you're running into issues. We really want to squash every bug we find and to continue to improve.
Wow but i wonder what the lag and stuff would be like on the ipad if it runs thou a system here we got in aust called 3g its got no hope but if it can find a better server it would be worth buying 1
Anyone tried this with an iphone? Does it work well? This would definitely make work much more enjoyable if it works as advertised, if only for the flash functionality alone. edit: just read that it is not iphone-capable yet. Oh well.
Hm, kind of sounds like a good idea but as for controlling it I'm just not sure it would work so well. Give it a years time and it may be developed enough to actually be something I would want to do. Also yay for my first post
Are there any more coupons left? I have an iPad and would really like to try this out. All the other remote desktop programs (mocha, logmein) don't cut it.
Yeah now you can launch a game on ur Apple crap !!! but what about play it efficiently ? hooow right you don't need efficiency your a apple user, all you need is pissing the world out about how good is your Expensive Apple device.
I have a coupon but I can't find the app in the app store on my iPhone. My iPad is getting serviced at apple right now so I haven't had a chance to try it yet... Any idea where to find the iPhone app?
Umm dev? i have a problem! I bought the app, and downloaded the server software, but when i try to download the app, it won't install and tells me to install from itunes. When i do that, it says the IPA is not valid... Does your app have compatibility problems with 3.2.1 iOS or jailbreak? Thank you in advance! I can't wait to get this working!
This is pretty dam awesome, the only problem is that without a keyboard and mouse, playing a PC game on the iPad will always be subpar at best compared to just using a laptop.
I don't know about the iPad since I don't have one, but everytime I play games on my iPod touch, my thumbs would ALWAYS get in the way, and I always hate how I don't have a keyboard/mouse for certain games.
Still, this would be great for things that don't require much interaction. WoW players can check auctions/mails, and SC2 players can always watch replays on it (hopefully)
I just bought and downloaded the app. it works after some trial and error. going to try sc2 now.
-attempting to troubleshoot is a pain in the ass. if you can't connect to your desktop via your ipad the ipad will sit there and continue to attempt to connect indefinitely. the only way to get it to stop is to reboot the entire ipad.
to developer: you need better documentation on how to facilitate a connection with your home pc. need a cancel connection attempt button on logon.
Also, the version tag on my ipad at the connection screen shows V1.0.6, while when I look at it from the download screen and in Itunes, it shows 1.0.7 you may need to update your tag on the ipad client.
also, while this streams desktop... theres no sound output so using it to watch streams and day9 dailies and stuff isnt as awesome as i thought itd be!
Wow, does everyone seriously miss the point of this? The developers are trying to wrap their heads around the UI challenges that touch devices need to overcome to make complex/fast games possible. They probably like the idea that people are excited about watching replays on their iPad, but that's not the goal here. Honestly this would be a great graduate-level study in computer science.
At least that's the impression I got from reading the OP.
On December 20 2010 12:55 glompix wrote: Wow, does everyone seriously miss the point of this? The developers are trying to wrap their heads around the UI challenges that touch devices need to overcome to make complex/fast games possible. They probably like the idea that people are excited about watching replays on their iPad, but that's not the goal here. Honestly this would be a great graduate-level study in computer science.
At least that's the impression I got from reading the OP.
i totally agree.
On December 15 2010 11:41 Mackh wrote: Yeah now you can launch a game on ur Apple crap !!! but what about play it efficiently ? hooow right you don't need efficiency your a apple user, all you need is pissing the world out about how good is your Expensive Apple device.
honestly? wow. i think this deserves a ban or at the very least a warning. =s
regardless. keep up the great work, lemme know when you guys get more coupons. ide love to test it with a few other games ect.
EPT
Thanks a lot!
