EPT
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OK I managed to catch up with the "discussion" (if the cacophony of incessant bitching can really be called a discussion). We literally just had this exact same issue. Read MB's post, since apparently some of you missed it:
Stop being so goddamn entitled. As Moonbear said: "The fact that I allow this dorm to be different is a boon, and not a god given right."
It would appear that a large number of you guys are completely OK with the idea of better moderation in this thread to keep it open - which, again, is something we're perfectly amenable to. What we don't want to see is pages of whining when someone who is being intentionally aggravating gets actioned, which has happened way too frequently.
You're not being clever when you "push the envelope." You're not proving a point, you're not making a statement, and all you're doing is making yourself look like a jackass. When we say don't post the Jinx face, stop posting the Jinx face. Don't call people douchebags. When people tell you they don't want to hear your QQ and to take it to the QQ thread, you take it to the QQ thread instead of starting a self-victimization crusade. Very simple.
Do you know what else is simple? Posting better. To be clear, the majority of posters in this thread are absolutely fine. But select individuals seem to use this thread as their personal toilet, Again, to quote the wise Moonbear: "I'm not going to put down hard concrete rules because I know it'll just invite people to see how close they can get to those lines."
As Yango said, MoonBear did not intend this to be "the shit house" when he made the thread, but that's what this thread has devolved into. What we are doing is an attempt to clean up the shit - and we're experiencing pushback against these efforts. So there's two answers to your question:
1. Some posters have asserted that they enjoy the atmosphere of this thread as a place where you can post whatever you want with no repercussions. If that's what you want you're free to go to another forum, because we don't want a shit house on Team Liquid.
2. Others posters have expressed the wish for this thread to stay. As stated earlier, we are perfectly amenable to keeping the thread open for its original intended purposes, aka "MoonBear and Friends Talk About Pokemon."
Ultimately, the decision is ours on if this thread remains open. And we are perfectly happy to let it stay open, but that requires an equal amount of consideration from you guys.
MoonBear is your biggest ally, so you probably shouldn't call him the fun/anti-fun police. If you want to complain, complain to me.
On February 19 2015 13:07 MoonBear wrote:
Real talk with MoonBear
I dislike making serious posts. But right now I'm going to make one.
This thread was originally made because we wanted to divorce the community chat and non-LoL discussions from the main GD thread which was becoming impossible to follow. In that it has achieved its goal and I am satisfied. I acknowledge that the level of moderation here is lighter than what is typical for TeamLiquid. That was a conscious decision on my part. However, this is an exception and not a rule. This does not mean that this thread is a free pass to just make any post you want, or that any moderation in this thread at all is somehow unjustified.
Let me use an analogy if I may.
This thread is like a dorm on a college campus, and I'm the RA. Normally the university prohibits alcohol in the dorms. However, sometimes a couple of people want to crack open some cans and hang out in the lounge playing cards, or foosball, or something so long as they don't make a mess. It's mostly harmless and as the RA I turn a blind eye to it because it's not really bothering anyone. The campus police and the university administration kinda knows that this happens and that it's only really a thing that happens in my dorms. But they trust me to do a good job and be fair to everyone, so they're comfortable to let me handle everything.
After a while, some people decide to hold a wine & cheese night with their book club. Or maybe some gin & tonic or other cocktails. Ok, fair enough. I'm not too bothered either. And you know what, some people really like that stuff and it's kinda classy too. That's pretty cool.
But then some people interpret this as a sign that suddenly the ban on alcohol in the dorms doesn't exist and hold a giant party where everyone is drinking moonshine and within an hour there's puke all down the corridors and the walls and several people are passed out and need medical attention. Suddenly things are not ok and either I, as the RA, clean things up and make it right or the campus police and university administration will. I know the people involved with this party and I don't believe they're evil horrible people. They're just people who have made a bad decision and I hope they can learn to be better people about it. So I decide to call a dorm meeting and tell everyone to have some common sense and not do stupid things. Because while it could be simple just to outlaw anything and everything and expel a few people, I trust that people can be sensible and there's no need to rip apart the unique culture in the dorm.
A few days later I catch some students trying to sneak some moonshine into the building. Nope, that ain't gonna fly. I've already made it clear that I'm not going to tolerate certain things. So I decide to have a stern talk with them. I might even write them up or something. I really don't want to, but I hope that they see it as my giving them a sign that they need to change for the better. Hopefully I'll never need to have to do this again because I really hate having to write someone up. But then these students suddenly complain that they're being picked on, and that I'm a hypocrite for allowing some people to enjoy beer and card games and but not allowing this moonshine.
"Let's make it clear." I say. "Our unique culture is here because of my goodwill and the trust I have in you all to not abuse that trust. I could easily revoke that goodwill right now if I wanted to. But I believe it's valuable for everyone here. I'm not going to put down hard concrete rules because I know it'll just invite people to see how close they can get to those lines. And when they do something stupid they'll try and invoke those rules and claim persecution. No, this arrangement is strictly one I make out of kindness. It's a fuzzy arrangement, but you should all be sensible enough to learn when I say what's ok and what's not." I sigh deeply.
"The fact that I allow this dorm to be different is a boon, and not a god given right. If you think I get some perverse pleasure from being an RA, let me tell you about all the shit I have to do in the real world. I'd rather be finishing my PhD thesis than spending my time on pointless shit having to do boring admin work and talk to you kids about common sense. It'd make my life way easier let me tell you. But here I am doing this because I know that a lot of people appreciate and benefit from this. If you don't like it, then go complain to the Dean and Head of Campus Security. But for reals, I don't think they're going to care what you think. And I know you'd rather have me as your RA than any alternative."
As I walk off I yell over my shoulder: "Don't make me have to say this again."
Real talk with MoonBear
I dislike making serious posts. But right now I'm going to make one.
This thread was originally made because we wanted to divorce the community chat and non-LoL discussions from the main GD thread which was becoming impossible to follow. In that it has achieved its goal and I am satisfied. I acknowledge that the level of moderation here is lighter than what is typical for TeamLiquid. That was a conscious decision on my part. However, this is an exception and not a rule. This does not mean that this thread is a free pass to just make any post you want, or that any moderation in this thread at all is somehow unjustified.
Let me use an analogy if I may.
This thread is like a dorm on a college campus, and I'm the RA. Normally the university prohibits alcohol in the dorms. However, sometimes a couple of people want to crack open some cans and hang out in the lounge playing cards, or foosball, or something so long as they don't make a mess. It's mostly harmless and as the RA I turn a blind eye to it because it's not really bothering anyone. The campus police and the university administration kinda knows that this happens and that it's only really a thing that happens in my dorms. But they trust me to do a good job and be fair to everyone, so they're comfortable to let me handle everything.
After a while, some people decide to hold a wine & cheese night with their book club. Or maybe some gin & tonic or other cocktails. Ok, fair enough. I'm not too bothered either. And you know what, some people really like that stuff and it's kinda classy too. That's pretty cool.
But then some people interpret this as a sign that suddenly the ban on alcohol in the dorms doesn't exist and hold a giant party where everyone is drinking moonshine and within an hour there's puke all down the corridors and the walls and several people are passed out and need medical attention. Suddenly things are not ok and either I, as the RA, clean things up and make it right or the campus police and university administration will. I know the people involved with this party and I don't believe they're evil horrible people. They're just people who have made a bad decision and I hope they can learn to be better people about it. So I decide to call a dorm meeting and tell everyone to have some common sense and not do stupid things. Because while it could be simple just to outlaw anything and everything and expel a few people, I trust that people can be sensible and there's no need to rip apart the unique culture in the dorm.
A few days later I catch some students trying to sneak some moonshine into the building. Nope, that ain't gonna fly. I've already made it clear that I'm not going to tolerate certain things. So I decide to have a stern talk with them. I might even write them up or something. I really don't want to, but I hope that they see it as my giving them a sign that they need to change for the better. Hopefully I'll never need to have to do this again because I really hate having to write someone up. But then these students suddenly complain that they're being picked on, and that I'm a hypocrite for allowing some people to enjoy beer and card games and but not allowing this moonshine.
"Let's make it clear." I say. "Our unique culture is here because of my goodwill and the trust I have in you all to not abuse that trust. I could easily revoke that goodwill right now if I wanted to. But I believe it's valuable for everyone here. I'm not going to put down hard concrete rules because I know it'll just invite people to see how close they can get to those lines. And when they do something stupid they'll try and invoke those rules and claim persecution. No, this arrangement is strictly one I make out of kindness. It's a fuzzy arrangement, but you should all be sensible enough to learn when I say what's ok and what's not." I sigh deeply.
"The fact that I allow this dorm to be different is a boon, and not a god given right. If you think I get some perverse pleasure from being an RA, let me tell you about all the shit I have to do in the real world. I'd rather be finishing my PhD thesis than spending my time on pointless shit having to do boring admin work and talk to you kids about common sense. It'd make my life way easier let me tell you. But here I am doing this because I know that a lot of people appreciate and benefit from this. If you don't like it, then go complain to the Dean and Head of Campus Security. But for reals, I don't think they're going to care what you think. And I know you'd rather have me as your RA than any alternative."
As I walk off I yell over my shoulder: "Don't make me have to say this again."
Stop being so goddamn entitled. As Moonbear said: "The fact that I allow this dorm to be different is a boon, and not a god given right."
It would appear that a large number of you guys are completely OK with the idea of better moderation in this thread to keep it open - which, again, is something we're perfectly amenable to. What we don't want to see is pages of whining when someone who is being intentionally aggravating gets actioned, which has happened way too frequently.
You're not being clever when you "push the envelope." You're not proving a point, you're not making a statement, and all you're doing is making yourself look like a jackass. When we say don't post the Jinx face, stop posting the Jinx face. Don't call people douchebags. When people tell you they don't want to hear your QQ and to take it to the QQ thread, you take it to the QQ thread instead of starting a self-victimization crusade. Very simple.
Do you know what else is simple? Posting better. To be clear, the majority of posters in this thread are absolutely fine. But select individuals seem to use this thread as their personal toilet, Again, to quote the wise Moonbear: "I'm not going to put down hard concrete rules because I know it'll just invite people to see how close they can get to those lines."
On February 23 2015 08:18 WaveofShadow wrote:
I mean it still sort of skirts the issue that we're apparently seen as a big stain on the future of liquid legends.
If we're constantly going to be threatened with closure because of 'vet' or 'grandfathered in' status then mods need to just come to a decision already.
Either we're welcome or we're not.
I mean it still sort of skirts the issue that we're apparently seen as a big stain on the future of liquid legends.
If we're constantly going to be threatened with closure because of 'vet' or 'grandfathered in' status then mods need to just come to a decision already.
Either we're welcome or we're not.
As Yango said, MoonBear did not intend this to be "the shit house" when he made the thread, but that's what this thread has devolved into. What we are doing is an attempt to clean up the shit - and we're experiencing pushback against these efforts. So there's two answers to your question:
1. Some posters have asserted that they enjoy the atmosphere of this thread as a place where you can post whatever you want with no repercussions. If that's what you want you're free to go to another forum, because we don't want a shit house on Team Liquid.
2. Others posters have expressed the wish for this thread to stay. As stated earlier, we are perfectly amenable to keeping the thread open for its original intended purposes, aka "MoonBear and Friends Talk About Pokemon."
1. This is our house.
This is our house and you are our guests. We will do everything in our power to treat everyone with respect and accommodate everyone's wishes, but this is a private site, so when you're here, you abide by our rules. We're not obligated to observe anyone's notions of free speech or fairness, but we will try to.
This is our house and you are our guests. We will do everything in our power to treat everyone with respect and accommodate everyone's wishes, but this is a private site, so when you're here, you abide by our rules. We're not obligated to observe anyone's notions of free speech or fairness, but we will try to.
Ultimately, the decision is ours on if this thread remains open. And we are perfectly happy to let it stay open, but that requires an equal amount of consideration from you guys.
MoonBear is your biggest ally, so you probably shouldn't call him the fun/anti-fun police. If you want to complain, complain to me.
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Koi_mit_Zierfischfutter.JPG)
