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On August 01 2014 04:07 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 04:04 Requizen wrote:On August 01 2014 03:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:43 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:35 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:22 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:08 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:01 mordek wrote:
[quote]
Whoops, I didn't even notice I mis-copied.
They're judged based on their knowledge. I would argue in these isolated groups there are those that are acknowledging this unknown god (God) and there are those choosing their own wickedness. They are still making the choice. Spreading the gospel is to convince those choosing sin/iniquity/wickedness to repent by explaining who God is and His salvation. Since I'm not God I couldn't tell you how he makes certain distinctions but we trust he judges fairly. I EXPECT YOU TO KNOW THESE THINGS DAMNIT <3 Thanks for entertaining my questions. For me, belief in a deity would have to come from some sort of empirical and physical evidence - I've never been one to blindly trust in anything. But if there were indisputable proof that some sort of god/afterlife exists, then I'd be a fool and a hypocrite not to acknowledge it. How seriously are you pursuing empirical/physical evidence and what would it take for something to be indisputable. I'm not pursuing it at all as I have no particular desire or need/wish to believe in something "greater". For it to be indisputable, it would have to be something that could be tested and proven. It would have to go through the same principles of science that anything that I know to be fact would have gone through. So if we for just a minute say God is real and the Bible is true, what would have to be tested and proven. How would you accept him proving his existence? I have no idea  It would have to be something continuously observable and testable, but I admit that I don't know the contents of the Bible well enough to pick an example there that would be good here. But let's take a polytheistic religion, for example. The different gods serve different purposes (rain god, sun god, goddess of fertility, etc.), and they were used to explain things that people didn't understand. As technology advances, we have been better able to explain and discover the scientific backings, causes, and effects of all of these different types of previously inexplicable things. And so it's difficult to imagine something being scientifically provable while simultaneously being religious in backing. But I won't say it's impossible because something could come along in the future that ends up proving some sort of deity (or deities) to exist. The polytheism of the Greeks/Romans are just people making up stuff to explain things. I understand if you think that's exactly what I'm doing. But I'm saying if God is the creator of the universe and revealed himself through Jesus and different points in time in the Old Testament, then quite simply he created "science". Everything works the way it does because he made it so. He's outside of time, space, matter but has chosen to reveal himself in different ways and most importantly as Himself in the person of Jesus. Once again, I understand that can sound crazy and I'm just repeating some made up garbage but I also don't understand why people feel like there is such a dichotomy between those who believe in concrete "science" and those who work in the supposed imaginary realm of "religion". I mean, I could care less about Christianity beyond what Jesus has taught and God has commanded. You take away whatever baggage away that has occurred because flawed humans used religion for purposes other than bringing God glory. Just look at your body. Just think about it. I personally find it unfathomable that I'm the product of random chance over millions of billions of years. I just don't get it when I step back why that should be my default belief. Oh, I know you're not just pulling shit out of your ass, I was raised Christian (and have actually gone through confirmation and all that fun stuff). But supposing science is the product of God's creation, I would think that he would be able to physically manifest himself in a way to prove to the non-believers that he exists. Would an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, benevolent god not want to reveal himself and end conflict and suffering for those he created? (that's a VERY loaded question) You might find it unfathomable, but I find it completely awesome that we are products of random chance. What I do find hard to believe is that we could be the only instance of random chance prospering in this potentially infinite universe (/multiverse/etc). I personally don't need a belief in a higher being to accept that these scientific properties worked out in our favor, and I also know there is still so much about everything that we do now know and have barely scratched the surface on. He did manifest himself, if you believe the New Testament. Of course, the people of the time sure did a bang-up job with that. Faith and the higher concepts of science aren't interconnected, nor are they conflicting. Just because our world is a veritable needle in the haystack as far as the universe is concerned doesn't mean God doesn't exist, and just because God exists (if He does) doesn't mean that we should stop caring about being in awe of the amazing feats of science and nature in our world. On August 01 2014 03:53 Slayer91 wrote:yeah we've seen only like 0.000000000000001% of our universe no chance we gonna detect the other aliens anytime soon even if they found our sun with a telescope no chance they gonna find earth and even if they do they won't be able to see shit the off chance of a radiation signal On August 01 2014 03:53 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:50 Slayer91 wrote:On August 01 2014 03:22 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:08 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:01 mordek wrote:
[quote]
Whoops, I didn't even notice I mis-copied.
They're judged based on their knowledge. I would argue in these isolated groups there are those that are acknowledging this unknown god (God) and there are those choosing their own wickedness. They are still making the choice. Spreading the gospel is to convince those choosing sin/iniquity/wickedness to repent by explaining who God is and His salvation. Since I'm not God I couldn't tell you how he makes certain distinctions but we trust he judges fairly. I EXPECT YOU TO KNOW THESE THINGS DAMNIT <3 Thanks for entertaining my questions. For me, belief in a deity would have to come from some sort of empirical and physical evidence - I've never been one to blindly trust in anything. But if there were indisputable proof that some sort of god/afterlife exists, then I'd be a fool and a hypocrite not to acknowledge it. How seriously are you pursuing empirical/physical evidence and what would it take for something to be indisputable. I'm not pursuing it at all as I have no particular desire or need/wish to believe in something "greater". For it to be indisputable, it would have to be something that could be tested and proven. It would have to go through the same principles of science that anything that I know to be fact would have gone through. So if we for just a minute say God is real and the Bible is true, what would have to be tested and proven. How would you accept him proving his existence? Except you could ask the same questions for an infinite amount of gods and an infinite amount of holy books that havent been written or theorized yet so essentially with zero evidence god is a statistical impossibility I get that, I'm trying to understand what is needed to convince him but more so I want him to know what it would take so he knows what questions to ask. The real travesty is if you just decide not to examine it. tbh even if god was real he'd be a massive cock for allowing most life to endure massive suffering if he's not malevolent he's definitely not omnipotent God gave Free Will to humans. Would it have been better if we were physically incapable of making choices? That would mean that we could not do horrible things or hurt one another, but we also would not be masters of our own fate. God doesn't want automatons to praise Him for no reason, He created life for the same reason people have children: because He loves them and wants to see them prosper. If you ever have kids, it's similar. You put down rules, you try to teach them right, but in the end it's their own choice to do what they want and make their own fate, even if you think it's horrible and wrong. You just keep trying to help them as you can. Correct me if I'm wrong since it's been a long time, but didn't "the devil" give humans free will by tricking Eve into eating from the tree of knowledge which god specifically forbade humans to do?
If you follow the Adam and Eve story (which is considered by most to be allegorical), they had Free Will to begin with. They didn't eat from the tree because it was a rule, really the only rule the God gave them. The Serpent tricked Eve into choosing to eat it, she was free to choose to eat it or not eat it at any point.
The fruit was Knowledge of Good and Evil, and when eaten, people gained the capacity to know what things were wrong and do them for selfish gain. Before, free will was a given, but they basically didn't desire to do anything wrong. It wasn't in human nature to do things for selfish gain or physical desires, just to do things that were right.
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On August 01 2014 04:14 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 04:04 Requizen wrote:On August 01 2014 03:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:43 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:35 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:22 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:08 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:01 mordek wrote:
[quote]
Whoops, I didn't even notice I mis-copied.
They're judged based on their knowledge. I would argue in these isolated groups there are those that are acknowledging this unknown god (God) and there are those choosing their own wickedness. They are still making the choice. Spreading the gospel is to convince those choosing sin/iniquity/wickedness to repent by explaining who God is and His salvation. Since I'm not God I couldn't tell you how he makes certain distinctions but we trust he judges fairly. I EXPECT YOU TO KNOW THESE THINGS DAMNIT <3 Thanks for entertaining my questions. For me, belief in a deity would have to come from some sort of empirical and physical evidence - I've never been one to blindly trust in anything. But if there were indisputable proof that some sort of god/afterlife exists, then I'd be a fool and a hypocrite not to acknowledge it. How seriously are you pursuing empirical/physical evidence and what would it take for something to be indisputable. I'm not pursuing it at all as I have no particular desire or need/wish to believe in something "greater". For it to be indisputable, it would have to be something that could be tested and proven. It would have to go through the same principles of science that anything that I know to be fact would have gone through. So if we for just a minute say God is real and the Bible is true, what would have to be tested and proven. How would you accept him proving his existence? I have no idea It would have to be something continuously observable and testable, but I admit that I don't know the contents of the Bible well enough to pick an example there that would be good here. But let's take a polytheistic religion, for example. The different gods serve different purposes (rain god, sun god, goddess of fertility, etc.), and they were used to explain things that people didn't understand. As technology advances, we have been better able to explain and discover the scientific backings, causes, and effects of all of these different types of previously inexplicable things. And so it's difficult to imagine something being scientifically provable while simultaneously being religious in backing. But I won't say it's impossible because something could come along in the future that ends up proving some sort of deity (or deities) to exist. The polytheism of the Greeks/Romans are just people making up stuff to explain things. I understand if you think that's exactly what I'm doing. But I'm saying if God is the creator of the universe and revealed himself through Jesus and different points in time in the Old Testament, then quite simply he created "science". Everything works the way it does because he made it so. He's outside of time, space, matter but has chosen to reveal himself in different ways and most importantly as Himself in the person of Jesus. Once again, I understand that can sound crazy and I'm just repeating some made up garbage but I also don't understand why people feel like there is such a dichotomy between those who believe in concrete "science" and those who work in the supposed imaginary realm of "religion". I mean, I could care less about Christianity beyond what Jesus has taught and God has commanded. You take away whatever baggage away that has occurred because flawed humans used religion for purposes other than bringing God glory. Just look at your body. Just think about it. I personally find it unfathomable that I'm the product of random chance over millions of billions of years. I just don't get it when I step back why that should be my default belief. Oh, I know you're not just pulling shit out of your ass, I was raised Christian (and have actually gone through confirmation and all that fun stuff). But supposing science is the product of God's creation, I would think that he would be able to physically manifest himself in a way to prove to the non-believers that he exists. Would an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, benevolent god not want to reveal himself and end conflict and suffering for those he created? (that's a VERY loaded question) You might find it unfathomable, but I find it completely awesome that we are products of random chance. What I do find hard to believe is that we could be the only instance of random chance prospering in this potentially infinite universe (/multiverse/etc). I personally don't need a belief in a higher being to accept that these scientific properties worked out in our favor, and I also know there is still so much about everything that we do now know and have barely scratched the surface on. He did manifest himself, if you believe the New Testament. Of course, the people of the time sure did a bang-up job with that. Faith and the higher concepts of science aren't interconnected, nor are they conflicting. Just because our world is a veritable needle in the haystack as far as the universe is concerned doesn't mean God doesn't exist, and just because God exists (if He does) doesn't mean that we should stop caring about being in awe of the amazing feats of science and nature in our world. On August 01 2014 03:53 Slayer91 wrote:yeah we've seen only like 0.000000000000001% of our universe no chance we gonna detect the other aliens anytime soon even if they found our sun with a telescope no chance they gonna find earth and even if they do they won't be able to see shit the off chance of a radiation signal On August 01 2014 03:53 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:50 Slayer91 wrote:On August 01 2014 03:22 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:08 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:01 mordek wrote:
[quote]
Whoops, I didn't even notice I mis-copied.
They're judged based on their knowledge. I would argue in these isolated groups there are those that are acknowledging this unknown god (God) and there are those choosing their own wickedness. They are still making the choice. Spreading the gospel is to convince those choosing sin/iniquity/wickedness to repent by explaining who God is and His salvation. Since I'm not God I couldn't tell you how he makes certain distinctions but we trust he judges fairly. I EXPECT YOU TO KNOW THESE THINGS DAMNIT <3 Thanks for entertaining my questions. For me, belief in a deity would have to come from some sort of empirical and physical evidence - I've never been one to blindly trust in anything. But if there were indisputable proof that some sort of god/afterlife exists, then I'd be a fool and a hypocrite not to acknowledge it. How seriously are you pursuing empirical/physical evidence and what would it take for something to be indisputable. I'm not pursuing it at all as I have no particular desire or need/wish to believe in something "greater". For it to be indisputable, it would have to be something that could be tested and proven. It would have to go through the same principles of science that anything that I know to be fact would have gone through. So if we for just a minute say God is real and the Bible is true, what would have to be tested and proven. How would you accept him proving his existence? Except you could ask the same questions for an infinite amount of gods and an infinite amount of holy books that havent been written or theorized yet so essentially with zero evidence god is a statistical impossibility I get that, I'm trying to understand what is needed to convince him but more so I want him to know what it would take so he knows what questions to ask. The real travesty is if you just decide not to examine it. tbh even if god was real he'd be a massive cock for allowing most life to endure massive suffering if he's not malevolent he's definitely not omnipotent God gave Free Will to humans. Would it have been better if we were physically incapable of making choices? That would mean that we could not do horrible things or hurt one another, but we also would not be masters of our own fate. God doesn't want automatons to praise Him for no reason, He created life for the same reason people have children: because He loves them and wants to see them prosper. If you ever have kids, it's similar. You put down rules, you try to teach them right, but in the end it's their own choice to do what they want and make their own fate, even if you think it's horrible and wrong. You just keep trying to help them as you can. But by your belief, we're not the masters of our own fate. Ultimately, your fate ends up being in your god's hands. It also seems odd to compare having kids to God creating man. As is evident, humans are completely fallible. However, is it not portrayed that God is infallible (legit question, I don't know)? Cuz giving people free will and then being like "don't do this shit" seems like an idiotic thing to do.
God is considered to be a just and benevolent figure. You are the master of your own fate, because he only judges you based on how you act. He will never say "well yeah you did a lot of good things in the world, but I don't like your accent to off to Hell for you". Do good things (and not necessarily follow him word for word, as many people are good without God), and he judges you as good. Do terrible things (hurt others, steal, destroy good things, etc), and he judges you the other way. Even failing does not change his opinion of you, since he judges your soul, not your results.
He gave free will so we could be our own people. He hopes that we will do the right thing, but ultimately it's up to us. Would it have been easier if we were made without the capacity to be cruel or selfish or violent? Sure, but would it have been better? What would have been the point? We don't even know what the point of life is, let alone the specifics.
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On August 01 2014 04:04 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 03:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:43 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:35 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:22 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:08 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:01 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 02:29 jcarlsoniv wrote:
dat formatting mord
[quote]
I was going back more to the question I posed before regarding people who were previously unaware of this religion and belief set. They have now been informed of something that others believe, and because they now have the knowledge, they are "forced" to make a choice, and if they don't choose the new stuff, then it will suck for them. It's irrelevant what this isolated group believed before (or didn't believe, if that may be the case), but in the eyes of the believers, the isolated will now be judged by God if they don't choose to follow him since they now know of him, even though they wouldn't have been judged if the believers never spread the word?
Even if the believers have the best of intentions (to spread happiness), they've now burdened this isolated group with their own belief system and perceived punishments/benefits. Whoops, I didn't even notice I mis-copied. They're judged based on their knowledge. I would argue in these isolated groups there are those that are acknowledging this unknown god (God) and there are those choosing their own wickedness. They are still making the choice. Spreading the gospel is to convince those choosing sin/iniquity/wickedness to repent by explaining who God is and His salvation. Since I'm not God I couldn't tell you how he makes certain distinctions but we trust he judges fairly. I EXPECT YOU TO KNOW THESE THINGS DAMNIT <3 Thanks for entertaining my questions. For me, belief in a deity would have to come from some sort of empirical and physical evidence - I've never been one to blindly trust in anything. But if there were indisputable proof that some sort of god/afterlife exists, then I'd be a fool and a hypocrite not to acknowledge it. How seriously are you pursuing empirical/physical evidence and what would it take for something to be indisputable. I'm not pursuing it at all as I have no particular desire or need/wish to believe in something "greater". For it to be indisputable, it would have to be something that could be tested and proven. It would have to go through the same principles of science that anything that I know to be fact would have gone through. So if we for just a minute say God is real and the Bible is true, what would have to be tested and proven. How would you accept him proving his existence? I have no idea It would have to be something continuously observable and testable, but I admit that I don't know the contents of the Bible well enough to pick an example there that would be good here. But let's take a polytheistic religion, for example. The different gods serve different purposes (rain god, sun god, goddess of fertility, etc.), and they were used to explain things that people didn't understand. As technology advances, we have been better able to explain and discover the scientific backings, causes, and effects of all of these different types of previously inexplicable things. And so it's difficult to imagine something being scientifically provable while simultaneously being religious in backing. But I won't say it's impossible because something could come along in the future that ends up proving some sort of deity (or deities) to exist. The polytheism of the Greeks/Romans are just people making up stuff to explain things. I understand if you think that's exactly what I'm doing. But I'm saying if God is the creator of the universe and revealed himself through Jesus and different points in time in the Old Testament, then quite simply he created "science". Everything works the way it does because he made it so. He's outside of time, space, matter but has chosen to reveal himself in different ways and most importantly as Himself in the person of Jesus. Once again, I understand that can sound crazy and I'm just repeating some made up garbage but I also don't understand why people feel like there is such a dichotomy between those who believe in concrete "science" and those who work in the supposed imaginary realm of "religion". I mean, I could care less about Christianity beyond what Jesus has taught and God has commanded. You take away whatever baggage away that has occurred because flawed humans used religion for purposes other than bringing God glory. Just look at your body. Just think about it. I personally find it unfathomable that I'm the product of random chance over millions of billions of years. I just don't get it when I step back why that should be my default belief. Oh, I know you're not just pulling shit out of your ass, I was raised Christian (and have actually gone through confirmation and all that fun stuff). But supposing science is the product of God's creation, I would think that he would be able to physically manifest himself in a way to prove to the non-believers that he exists. Would an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, benevolent god not want to reveal himself and end conflict and suffering for those he created? (that's a VERY loaded question) You might find it unfathomable, but I find it completely awesome that we are products of random chance. What I do find hard to believe is that we could be the only instance of random chance prospering in this potentially infinite universe (/multiverse/etc). I personally don't need a belief in a higher being to accept that these scientific properties worked out in our favor, and I also know there is still so much about everything that we do now know and have barely scratched the surface on. He did manifest himself, if you believe the New Testament. Of course, the people of the time sure did a bang-up job with that. Faith and the higher concepts of science aren't interconnected, nor are they conflicting. Just because our world is a veritable needle in the haystack as far as the universe is concerned doesn't mean God doesn't exist, and just because God exists (if He does) doesn't mean that we should stop caring about being in awe of the amazing feats of science and nature in our world. Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 03:53 Slayer91 wrote:yeah we've seen only like 0.000000000000001% of our universe no chance we gonna detect the other aliens anytime soon even if they found our sun with a telescope no chance they gonna find earth and even if they do they won't be able to see shit the off chance of a radiation signal On August 01 2014 03:53 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:50 Slayer91 wrote:On August 01 2014 03:22 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:08 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:01 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 02:29 jcarlsoniv wrote:
dat formatting mord
[quote]
I was going back more to the question I posed before regarding people who were previously unaware of this religion and belief set. They have now been informed of something that others believe, and because they now have the knowledge, they are "forced" to make a choice, and if they don't choose the new stuff, then it will suck for them. It's irrelevant what this isolated group believed before (or didn't believe, if that may be the case), but in the eyes of the believers, the isolated will now be judged by God if they don't choose to follow him since they now know of him, even though they wouldn't have been judged if the believers never spread the word?
Even if the believers have the best of intentions (to spread happiness), they've now burdened this isolated group with their own belief system and perceived punishments/benefits. Whoops, I didn't even notice I mis-copied. They're judged based on their knowledge. I would argue in these isolated groups there are those that are acknowledging this unknown god (God) and there are those choosing their own wickedness. They are still making the choice. Spreading the gospel is to convince those choosing sin/iniquity/wickedness to repent by explaining who God is and His salvation. Since I'm not God I couldn't tell you how he makes certain distinctions but we trust he judges fairly. I EXPECT YOU TO KNOW THESE THINGS DAMNIT <3 Thanks for entertaining my questions. For me, belief in a deity would have to come from some sort of empirical and physical evidence - I've never been one to blindly trust in anything. But if there were indisputable proof that some sort of god/afterlife exists, then I'd be a fool and a hypocrite not to acknowledge it. How seriously are you pursuing empirical/physical evidence and what would it take for something to be indisputable. I'm not pursuing it at all as I have no particular desire or need/wish to believe in something "greater". For it to be indisputable, it would have to be something that could be tested and proven. It would have to go through the same principles of science that anything that I know to be fact would have gone through. So if we for just a minute say God is real and the Bible is true, what would have to be tested and proven. How would you accept him proving his existence? Except you could ask the same questions for an infinite amount of gods and an infinite amount of holy books that havent been written or theorized yet so essentially with zero evidence god is a statistical impossibility I get that, I'm trying to understand what is needed to convince him but more so I want him to know what it would take so he knows what questions to ask. The real travesty is if you just decide not to examine it. tbh even if god was real he'd be a massive cock for allowing most life to endure massive suffering if he's not malevolent he's definitely not omnipotent God gave Free Will to humans. Would it have been better if we were physically incapable of making choices? That would mean that we could not do horrible things or hurt one another, but we also would not be masters of our own fate. God doesn't want automatons to praise Him for no reason, He created life for the same reason people have children: because He loves them and wants to see them prosper. If you ever have kids, it's similar. You put down rules, you try to teach them right, but in the end it's their own choice to do what they want and make their own fate, even if you think it's horrible and wrong. You just keep trying to help them as you can.
god gave you free will as well as people with desires such as pedophilia and people with voices in their heads telling them to murder people and generally massive greed and hedoistic desires that lead to people fucking people over
and creating natural disasters and famine and disease to make sure most people die horrible deaths as well as most animals
i think id take a free ticket to heaven and THEN have free will tyvm
or not designing humans with horrible flaws that coincidentally correspond to things that were evolutionary advantages
or fuck it just make earth heaven which is sort of was until god went full ragemode becaues adam ate a fucking apple jesus christ what a temperamental son of a bitch
how about not punish all humankind because some bitch who thought she could talk to snakes
also get rid of satan whats the point of punishing people just let them go to heaven too why discriminate
oh but blah blah souls well you're god aren't you fix the legal details of souls so everyone goes all the time
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I always found it a bit contradictory that Satan would punish those sent to hell. If Satan is God's enemy, and those who disobey God get sent to hell, wouldn't Satan want to reward them?
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On August 01 2014 04:40 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I always found it a bit contradictory that Satan would punish those sent to hell. If Satan is God's enemy, and those who disobey God get sent to hell, wouldn't Satan want to reward them?
i always assumed it was cause satan was a sadistic prick who enjoyed torturing people or something
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I mean everything is contradictory the point of the Satan God thing is so there's a god guy and a bad guy and the guys who are assholes on the internet and IRL get fucked in the afterlife with pitchforks so you can feel smug about them doing things you don't like.
yaeh if I were god I also wouldn't invent someone whos basically the definition of pure evil
big mistake there bro
you guys should elect me gods advisor id fix things up so fast you wouldn't believe
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On August 01 2014 04:35 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 04:04 Requizen wrote:On August 01 2014 03:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:43 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:35 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:22 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:08 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:01 mordek wrote:
[quote]
Whoops, I didn't even notice I mis-copied.
They're judged based on their knowledge. I would argue in these isolated groups there are those that are acknowledging this unknown god (God) and there are those choosing their own wickedness. They are still making the choice. Spreading the gospel is to convince those choosing sin/iniquity/wickedness to repent by explaining who God is and His salvation. Since I'm not God I couldn't tell you how he makes certain distinctions but we trust he judges fairly. I EXPECT YOU TO KNOW THESE THINGS DAMNIT <3 Thanks for entertaining my questions. For me, belief in a deity would have to come from some sort of empirical and physical evidence - I've never been one to blindly trust in anything. But if there were indisputable proof that some sort of god/afterlife exists, then I'd be a fool and a hypocrite not to acknowledge it. How seriously are you pursuing empirical/physical evidence and what would it take for something to be indisputable. I'm not pursuing it at all as I have no particular desire or need/wish to believe in something "greater". For it to be indisputable, it would have to be something that could be tested and proven. It would have to go through the same principles of science that anything that I know to be fact would have gone through. So if we for just a minute say God is real and the Bible is true, what would have to be tested and proven. How would you accept him proving his existence? I have no idea It would have to be something continuously observable and testable, but I admit that I don't know the contents of the Bible well enough to pick an example there that would be good here. But let's take a polytheistic religion, for example. The different gods serve different purposes (rain god, sun god, goddess of fertility, etc.), and they were used to explain things that people didn't understand. As technology advances, we have been better able to explain and discover the scientific backings, causes, and effects of all of these different types of previously inexplicable things. And so it's difficult to imagine something being scientifically provable while simultaneously being religious in backing. But I won't say it's impossible because something could come along in the future that ends up proving some sort of deity (or deities) to exist. The polytheism of the Greeks/Romans are just people making up stuff to explain things. I understand if you think that's exactly what I'm doing. But I'm saying if God is the creator of the universe and revealed himself through Jesus and different points in time in the Old Testament, then quite simply he created "science". Everything works the way it does because he made it so. He's outside of time, space, matter but has chosen to reveal himself in different ways and most importantly as Himself in the person of Jesus. Once again, I understand that can sound crazy and I'm just repeating some made up garbage but I also don't understand why people feel like there is such a dichotomy between those who believe in concrete "science" and those who work in the supposed imaginary realm of "religion". I mean, I could care less about Christianity beyond what Jesus has taught and God has commanded. You take away whatever baggage away that has occurred because flawed humans used religion for purposes other than bringing God glory. Just look at your body. Just think about it. I personally find it unfathomable that I'm the product of random chance over millions of billions of years. I just don't get it when I step back why that should be my default belief. Oh, I know you're not just pulling shit out of your ass, I was raised Christian (and have actually gone through confirmation and all that fun stuff). But supposing science is the product of God's creation, I would think that he would be able to physically manifest himself in a way to prove to the non-believers that he exists. Would an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, benevolent god not want to reveal himself and end conflict and suffering for those he created? (that's a VERY loaded question) You might find it unfathomable, but I find it completely awesome that we are products of random chance. What I do find hard to believe is that we could be the only instance of random chance prospering in this potentially infinite universe (/multiverse/etc). I personally don't need a belief in a higher being to accept that these scientific properties worked out in our favor, and I also know there is still so much about everything that we do now know and have barely scratched the surface on. He did manifest himself, if you believe the New Testament. Of course, the people of the time sure did a bang-up job with that. Faith and the higher concepts of science aren't interconnected, nor are they conflicting. Just because our world is a veritable needle in the haystack as far as the universe is concerned doesn't mean God doesn't exist, and just because God exists (if He does) doesn't mean that we should stop caring about being in awe of the amazing feats of science and nature in our world. On August 01 2014 03:53 Slayer91 wrote:yeah we've seen only like 0.000000000000001% of our universe no chance we gonna detect the other aliens anytime soon even if they found our sun with a telescope no chance they gonna find earth and even if they do they won't be able to see shit the off chance of a radiation signal On August 01 2014 03:53 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:50 Slayer91 wrote:On August 01 2014 03:22 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:08 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:01 mordek wrote:
[quote]
Whoops, I didn't even notice I mis-copied.
They're judged based on their knowledge. I would argue in these isolated groups there are those that are acknowledging this unknown god (God) and there are those choosing their own wickedness. They are still making the choice. Spreading the gospel is to convince those choosing sin/iniquity/wickedness to repent by explaining who God is and His salvation. Since I'm not God I couldn't tell you how he makes certain distinctions but we trust he judges fairly. I EXPECT YOU TO KNOW THESE THINGS DAMNIT <3 Thanks for entertaining my questions. For me, belief in a deity would have to come from some sort of empirical and physical evidence - I've never been one to blindly trust in anything. But if there were indisputable proof that some sort of god/afterlife exists, then I'd be a fool and a hypocrite not to acknowledge it. How seriously are you pursuing empirical/physical evidence and what would it take for something to be indisputable. I'm not pursuing it at all as I have no particular desire or need/wish to believe in something "greater". For it to be indisputable, it would have to be something that could be tested and proven. It would have to go through the same principles of science that anything that I know to be fact would have gone through. So if we for just a minute say God is real and the Bible is true, what would have to be tested and proven. How would you accept him proving his existence? Except you could ask the same questions for an infinite amount of gods and an infinite amount of holy books that havent been written or theorized yet so essentially with zero evidence god is a statistical impossibility I get that, I'm trying to understand what is needed to convince him but more so I want him to know what it would take so he knows what questions to ask. The real travesty is if you just decide not to examine it. tbh even if god was real he'd be a massive cock for allowing most life to endure massive suffering if he's not malevolent he's definitely not omnipotent God gave Free Will to humans. Would it have been better if we were physically incapable of making choices? That would mean that we could not do horrible things or hurt one another, but we also would not be masters of our own fate. God doesn't want automatons to praise Him for no reason, He created life for the same reason people have children: because He loves them and wants to see them prosper. If you ever have kids, it's similar. You put down rules, you try to teach them right, but in the end it's their own choice to do what they want and make their own fate, even if you think it's horrible and wrong. You just keep trying to help them as you can. god gave you free will as well as people with desires such as pedophilia and people with voices in their heads telling them to murder people and generally massive greed and hedoistic desires that lead to people fucking people over and creating natural disasters and famine and disease to make sure most people die horrible deaths as well as most animals i think id take a free ticket to heaven and THEN have free will tyvm or not designing humans with horrible flaws that coincidentally correspond to things that were evolutionary advantages
People with psychological disorders are the extreme minority, not the norm. Our bodies hold to the laws of nature, which mean they're fallible and prone to issues. We deal with those both personally and we deal with other people's issues as well.
I don't know why the mind evolved to allow these things to happen, or if God designed them that way for a reason. I can only talk about things I do know. Why do terrible things happen? Why does our world sometimes have disasters that kill hundreds and thousands of innocents and good people? I don't know, but bad things do not disprove the existence of good.
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interesting the christian god figure is more like white guy dad where is "lay down the rules and let em lose and hope for the best"
not the asian guy dad, or the atheist version the black guy dad.
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On August 01 2014 04:46 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 04:35 Slayer91 wrote:On August 01 2014 04:04 Requizen wrote:On August 01 2014 03:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:43 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:35 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:22 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:08 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:
[quote]
I EXPECT YOU TO KNOW THESE THINGS DAMNIT
<3
Thanks for entertaining my questions. For me, belief in a deity would have to come from some sort of empirical and physical evidence - I've never been one to blindly trust in anything. But if there were indisputable proof that some sort of god/afterlife exists, then I'd be a fool and a hypocrite not to acknowledge it. How seriously are you pursuing empirical/physical evidence and what would it take for something to be indisputable. I'm not pursuing it at all as I have no particular desire or need/wish to believe in something "greater". For it to be indisputable, it would have to be something that could be tested and proven. It would have to go through the same principles of science that anything that I know to be fact would have gone through. So if we for just a minute say God is real and the Bible is true, what would have to be tested and proven. How would you accept him proving his existence? I have no idea It would have to be something continuously observable and testable, but I admit that I don't know the contents of the Bible well enough to pick an example there that would be good here. But let's take a polytheistic religion, for example. The different gods serve different purposes (rain god, sun god, goddess of fertility, etc.), and they were used to explain things that people didn't understand. As technology advances, we have been better able to explain and discover the scientific backings, causes, and effects of all of these different types of previously inexplicable things. And so it's difficult to imagine something being scientifically provable while simultaneously being religious in backing. But I won't say it's impossible because something could come along in the future that ends up proving some sort of deity (or deities) to exist. The polytheism of the Greeks/Romans are just people making up stuff to explain things. I understand if you think that's exactly what I'm doing. But I'm saying if God is the creator of the universe and revealed himself through Jesus and different points in time in the Old Testament, then quite simply he created "science". Everything works the way it does because he made it so. He's outside of time, space, matter but has chosen to reveal himself in different ways and most importantly as Himself in the person of Jesus. Once again, I understand that can sound crazy and I'm just repeating some made up garbage but I also don't understand why people feel like there is such a dichotomy between those who believe in concrete "science" and those who work in the supposed imaginary realm of "religion". I mean, I could care less about Christianity beyond what Jesus has taught and God has commanded. You take away whatever baggage away that has occurred because flawed humans used religion for purposes other than bringing God glory. Just look at your body. Just think about it. I personally find it unfathomable that I'm the product of random chance over millions of billions of years. I just don't get it when I step back why that should be my default belief. Oh, I know you're not just pulling shit out of your ass, I was raised Christian (and have actually gone through confirmation and all that fun stuff). But supposing science is the product of God's creation, I would think that he would be able to physically manifest himself in a way to prove to the non-believers that he exists. Would an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, benevolent god not want to reveal himself and end conflict and suffering for those he created? (that's a VERY loaded question) You might find it unfathomable, but I find it completely awesome that we are products of random chance. What I do find hard to believe is that we could be the only instance of random chance prospering in this potentially infinite universe (/multiverse/etc). I personally don't need a belief in a higher being to accept that these scientific properties worked out in our favor, and I also know there is still so much about everything that we do now know and have barely scratched the surface on. He did manifest himself, if you believe the New Testament. Of course, the people of the time sure did a bang-up job with that. Faith and the higher concepts of science aren't interconnected, nor are they conflicting. Just because our world is a veritable needle in the haystack as far as the universe is concerned doesn't mean God doesn't exist, and just because God exists (if He does) doesn't mean that we should stop caring about being in awe of the amazing feats of science and nature in our world. On August 01 2014 03:53 Slayer91 wrote:yeah we've seen only like 0.000000000000001% of our universe no chance we gonna detect the other aliens anytime soon even if they found our sun with a telescope no chance they gonna find earth and even if they do they won't be able to see shit the off chance of a radiation signal On August 01 2014 03:53 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:50 Slayer91 wrote:On August 01 2014 03:22 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:08 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:
[quote]
I EXPECT YOU TO KNOW THESE THINGS DAMNIT
<3
Thanks for entertaining my questions. For me, belief in a deity would have to come from some sort of empirical and physical evidence - I've never been one to blindly trust in anything. But if there were indisputable proof that some sort of god/afterlife exists, then I'd be a fool and a hypocrite not to acknowledge it. How seriously are you pursuing empirical/physical evidence and what would it take for something to be indisputable. I'm not pursuing it at all as I have no particular desire or need/wish to believe in something "greater". For it to be indisputable, it would have to be something that could be tested and proven. It would have to go through the same principles of science that anything that I know to be fact would have gone through. So if we for just a minute say God is real and the Bible is true, what would have to be tested and proven. How would you accept him proving his existence? Except you could ask the same questions for an infinite amount of gods and an infinite amount of holy books that havent been written or theorized yet so essentially with zero evidence god is a statistical impossibility I get that, I'm trying to understand what is needed to convince him but more so I want him to know what it would take so he knows what questions to ask. The real travesty is if you just decide not to examine it. tbh even if god was real he'd be a massive cock for allowing most life to endure massive suffering if he's not malevolent he's definitely not omnipotent God gave Free Will to humans. Would it have been better if we were physically incapable of making choices? That would mean that we could not do horrible things or hurt one another, but we also would not be masters of our own fate. God doesn't want automatons to praise Him for no reason, He created life for the same reason people have children: because He loves them and wants to see them prosper. If you ever have kids, it's similar. You put down rules, you try to teach them right, but in the end it's their own choice to do what they want and make their own fate, even if you think it's horrible and wrong. You just keep trying to help them as you can. god gave you free will as well as people with desires such as pedophilia and people with voices in their heads telling them to murder people and generally massive greed and hedoistic desires that lead to people fucking people over and creating natural disasters and famine and disease to make sure most people die horrible deaths as well as most animals i think id take a free ticket to heaven and THEN have free will tyvm or not designing humans with horrible flaws that coincidentally correspond to things that were evolutionary advantages People with psychological disorders are the extreme minority, not the norm. Our bodies hold to the laws of nature, which mean they're fallible and prone to issues. We deal with those both personally and we deal with other people's issues as well. I don't know why the mind evolved to allow these things to happen, or if God designed them that way for a reason. I can only talk about things I do know. Why do terrible things happen? Why does our world sometimes have disasters that kill hundreds and thousands of innocents and good people? I don't know, but bad things do not disprove the existence of good.
Well, no, you're talking about things you think and believe. Which is totally fine, but it's not necessarily something you know. We know that gravity makes things go down and that an object in motion tends to stay in motion. We also know that there are scientific properties behind all of this. The difference is that you believe God is behind it, while I think that it just is the way it is.
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On August 01 2014 04:35 Slayer91 wrote:
or fuck it just make earth heaven which is sort of was until god went full ragemode becaues adam ate a fucking apple jesus christ what a temperamental son of a bitch
how about not punish all humankind because some bitch who thought she could talk to snakes
also get rid of satan whats the point of punishing people just let them go to heaven too why discriminate
oh but blah blah souls well you're god aren't you fix the legal details of souls so everyone goes all the time
On August 01 2014 04:43 Slayer91 wrote:
I mean everything is contradictory the point of the Satan God thing is so there's a god guy and a bad guy and the guys who are assholes on the internet and IRL get fucked in the afterlife with pitchforks so you can feel smug about them doing things you don't like.
yaeh if I were god I also wouldn't invent someone whos basically the definition of pure evil
big mistake there bro
you guys should elect me gods advisor id fix things up so fast you wouldn't believe
Gee I wonder why I don't want to have these types of discussions.
On August 01 2014 04:40 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I always found it a bit contradictory that Satan would punish those sent to hell. If Satan is God's enemy, and those who disobey God get sent to hell, wouldn't Satan want to reward them?
Hell isn't what you see on TV with Satan sitting around with a pitchfork. Hell is separation from God, less of a physical place with physical tortures.
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On August 01 2014 04:40 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I always found it a bit contradictory that Satan would punish those sent to hell. If Satan is God's enemy, and those who disobey God get sent to hell, wouldn't Satan want to reward them?
Satan was removed from God's presence for his rebellion. Turns out being separated from God sucks. Satan isn't punishing anyone in hell, they're all just no longer in God's presence. He tries to convince other people to join him in his rebellion because that's what he wants and doesn't care if it's going to suck for you too.
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SO... gonna play some rift in a little bit. is yango going to bless us with his presence eventually? 
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On August 01 2014 04:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 04:46 Requizen wrote:On August 01 2014 04:35 Slayer91 wrote:On August 01 2014 04:04 Requizen wrote:On August 01 2014 03:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:43 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:35 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:22 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:08 mordek wrote:
[quote]
How seriously are you pursuing empirical/physical evidence and what would it take for something to be indisputable. I'm not pursuing it at all as I have no particular desire or need/wish to believe in something "greater". For it to be indisputable, it would have to be something that could be tested and proven. It would have to go through the same principles of science that anything that I know to be fact would have gone through. So if we for just a minute say God is real and the Bible is true, what would have to be tested and proven. How would you accept him proving his existence? I have no idea It would have to be something continuously observable and testable, but I admit that I don't know the contents of the Bible well enough to pick an example there that would be good here. But let's take a polytheistic religion, for example. The different gods serve different purposes (rain god, sun god, goddess of fertility, etc.), and they were used to explain things that people didn't understand. As technology advances, we have been better able to explain and discover the scientific backings, causes, and effects of all of these different types of previously inexplicable things. And so it's difficult to imagine something being scientifically provable while simultaneously being religious in backing. But I won't say it's impossible because something could come along in the future that ends up proving some sort of deity (or deities) to exist. The polytheism of the Greeks/Romans are just people making up stuff to explain things. I understand if you think that's exactly what I'm doing. But I'm saying if God is the creator of the universe and revealed himself through Jesus and different points in time in the Old Testament, then quite simply he created "science". Everything works the way it does because he made it so. He's outside of time, space, matter but has chosen to reveal himself in different ways and most importantly as Himself in the person of Jesus. Once again, I understand that can sound crazy and I'm just repeating some made up garbage but I also don't understand why people feel like there is such a dichotomy between those who believe in concrete "science" and those who work in the supposed imaginary realm of "religion". I mean, I could care less about Christianity beyond what Jesus has taught and God has commanded. You take away whatever baggage away that has occurred because flawed humans used religion for purposes other than bringing God glory. Just look at your body. Just think about it. I personally find it unfathomable that I'm the product of random chance over millions of billions of years. I just don't get it when I step back why that should be my default belief. Oh, I know you're not just pulling shit out of your ass, I was raised Christian (and have actually gone through confirmation and all that fun stuff). But supposing science is the product of God's creation, I would think that he would be able to physically manifest himself in a way to prove to the non-believers that he exists. Would an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, benevolent god not want to reveal himself and end conflict and suffering for those he created? (that's a VERY loaded question) You might find it unfathomable, but I find it completely awesome that we are products of random chance. What I do find hard to believe is that we could be the only instance of random chance prospering in this potentially infinite universe (/multiverse/etc). I personally don't need a belief in a higher being to accept that these scientific properties worked out in our favor, and I also know there is still so much about everything that we do now know and have barely scratched the surface on. He did manifest himself, if you believe the New Testament. Of course, the people of the time sure did a bang-up job with that. Faith and the higher concepts of science aren't interconnected, nor are they conflicting. Just because our world is a veritable needle in the haystack as far as the universe is concerned doesn't mean God doesn't exist, and just because God exists (if He does) doesn't mean that we should stop caring about being in awe of the amazing feats of science and nature in our world. On August 01 2014 03:53 Slayer91 wrote:yeah we've seen only like 0.000000000000001% of our universe no chance we gonna detect the other aliens anytime soon even if they found our sun with a telescope no chance they gonna find earth and even if they do they won't be able to see shit the off chance of a radiation signal On August 01 2014 03:53 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:50 Slayer91 wrote:On August 01 2014 03:22 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:08 mordek wrote:
[quote]
How seriously are you pursuing empirical/physical evidence and what would it take for something to be indisputable. I'm not pursuing it at all as I have no particular desire or need/wish to believe in something "greater". For it to be indisputable, it would have to be something that could be tested and proven. It would have to go through the same principles of science that anything that I know to be fact would have gone through. So if we for just a minute say God is real and the Bible is true, what would have to be tested and proven. How would you accept him proving his existence? Except you could ask the same questions for an infinite amount of gods and an infinite amount of holy books that havent been written or theorized yet so essentially with zero evidence god is a statistical impossibility I get that, I'm trying to understand what is needed to convince him but more so I want him to know what it would take so he knows what questions to ask. The real travesty is if you just decide not to examine it. tbh even if god was real he'd be a massive cock for allowing most life to endure massive suffering if he's not malevolent he's definitely not omnipotent God gave Free Will to humans. Would it have been better if we were physically incapable of making choices? That would mean that we could not do horrible things or hurt one another, but we also would not be masters of our own fate. God doesn't want automatons to praise Him for no reason, He created life for the same reason people have children: because He loves them and wants to see them prosper. If you ever have kids, it's similar. You put down rules, you try to teach them right, but in the end it's their own choice to do what they want and make their own fate, even if you think it's horrible and wrong. You just keep trying to help them as you can. god gave you free will as well as people with desires such as pedophilia and people with voices in their heads telling them to murder people and generally massive greed and hedoistic desires that lead to people fucking people over and creating natural disasters and famine and disease to make sure most people die horrible deaths as well as most animals i think id take a free ticket to heaven and THEN have free will tyvm or not designing humans with horrible flaws that coincidentally correspond to things that were evolutionary advantages People with psychological disorders are the extreme minority, not the norm. Our bodies hold to the laws of nature, which mean they're fallible and prone to issues. We deal with those both personally and we deal with other people's issues as well. I don't know why the mind evolved to allow these things to happen, or if God designed them that way for a reason. I can only talk about things I do know. Why do terrible things happen? Why does our world sometimes have disasters that kill hundreds and thousands of innocents and good people? I don't know, but bad things do not disprove the existence of good. Well, no, you're talking about things you think and believe. Which is totally fine, but it's not necessarily something you know. We know that gravity makes things go down and that an object in motion tends to stay in motion. We also know that there are scientific properties behind all of this. The difference is that you believe God is behind it, while I think that it just is the way it is.
Gravity doesn't make things go down. Gravity pulls two objects together in three dimensional space. We know it happens, but there actually isn't any reasoning as to why. All objects in the universe pull together with force. How much force depends on their relative sizes.
Where does that force come from?
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On August 01 2014 05:01 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 04:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 04:46 Requizen wrote:On August 01 2014 04:35 Slayer91 wrote:On August 01 2014 04:04 Requizen wrote:On August 01 2014 03:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:43 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:35 jcarlsoniv wrote:On August 01 2014 03:22 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:
[quote]
I'm not pursuing it at all as I have no particular desire or need/wish to believe in something "greater". For it to be indisputable, it would have to be something that could be tested and proven. It would have to go through the same principles of science that anything that I know to be fact would have gone through. So if we for just a minute say God is real and the Bible is true, what would have to be tested and proven. How would you accept him proving his existence? I have no idea It would have to be something continuously observable and testable, but I admit that I don't know the contents of the Bible well enough to pick an example there that would be good here. But let's take a polytheistic religion, for example. The different gods serve different purposes (rain god, sun god, goddess of fertility, etc.), and they were used to explain things that people didn't understand. As technology advances, we have been better able to explain and discover the scientific backings, causes, and effects of all of these different types of previously inexplicable things. And so it's difficult to imagine something being scientifically provable while simultaneously being religious in backing. But I won't say it's impossible because something could come along in the future that ends up proving some sort of deity (or deities) to exist. The polytheism of the Greeks/Romans are just people making up stuff to explain things. I understand if you think that's exactly what I'm doing. But I'm saying if God is the creator of the universe and revealed himself through Jesus and different points in time in the Old Testament, then quite simply he created "science". Everything works the way it does because he made it so. He's outside of time, space, matter but has chosen to reveal himself in different ways and most importantly as Himself in the person of Jesus. Once again, I understand that can sound crazy and I'm just repeating some made up garbage but I also don't understand why people feel like there is such a dichotomy between those who believe in concrete "science" and those who work in the supposed imaginary realm of "religion". I mean, I could care less about Christianity beyond what Jesus has taught and God has commanded. You take away whatever baggage away that has occurred because flawed humans used religion for purposes other than bringing God glory. Just look at your body. Just think about it. I personally find it unfathomable that I'm the product of random chance over millions of billions of years. I just don't get it when I step back why that should be my default belief. Oh, I know you're not just pulling shit out of your ass, I was raised Christian (and have actually gone through confirmation and all that fun stuff). But supposing science is the product of God's creation, I would think that he would be able to physically manifest himself in a way to prove to the non-believers that he exists. Would an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, benevolent god not want to reveal himself and end conflict and suffering for those he created? (that's a VERY loaded question) You might find it unfathomable, but I find it completely awesome that we are products of random chance. What I do find hard to believe is that we could be the only instance of random chance prospering in this potentially infinite universe (/multiverse/etc). I personally don't need a belief in a higher being to accept that these scientific properties worked out in our favor, and I also know there is still so much about everything that we do now know and have barely scratched the surface on. He did manifest himself, if you believe the New Testament. Of course, the people of the time sure did a bang-up job with that. Faith and the higher concepts of science aren't interconnected, nor are they conflicting. Just because our world is a veritable needle in the haystack as far as the universe is concerned doesn't mean God doesn't exist, and just because God exists (if He does) doesn't mean that we should stop caring about being in awe of the amazing feats of science and nature in our world. On August 01 2014 03:53 Slayer91 wrote:yeah we've seen only like 0.000000000000001% of our universe no chance we gonna detect the other aliens anytime soon even if they found our sun with a telescope no chance they gonna find earth and even if they do they won't be able to see shit the off chance of a radiation signal On August 01 2014 03:53 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:50 Slayer91 wrote:On August 01 2014 03:22 mordek wrote:On August 01 2014 03:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:
[quote]
I'm not pursuing it at all as I have no particular desire or need/wish to believe in something "greater". For it to be indisputable, it would have to be something that could be tested and proven. It would have to go through the same principles of science that anything that I know to be fact would have gone through. So if we for just a minute say God is real and the Bible is true, what would have to be tested and proven. How would you accept him proving his existence? Except you could ask the same questions for an infinite amount of gods and an infinite amount of holy books that havent been written or theorized yet so essentially with zero evidence god is a statistical impossibility I get that, I'm trying to understand what is needed to convince him but more so I want him to know what it would take so he knows what questions to ask. The real travesty is if you just decide not to examine it. tbh even if god was real he'd be a massive cock for allowing most life to endure massive suffering if he's not malevolent he's definitely not omnipotent God gave Free Will to humans. Would it have been better if we were physically incapable of making choices? That would mean that we could not do horrible things or hurt one another, but we also would not be masters of our own fate. God doesn't want automatons to praise Him for no reason, He created life for the same reason people have children: because He loves them and wants to see them prosper. If you ever have kids, it's similar. You put down rules, you try to teach them right, but in the end it's their own choice to do what they want and make their own fate, even if you think it's horrible and wrong. You just keep trying to help them as you can. god gave you free will as well as people with desires such as pedophilia and people with voices in their heads telling them to murder people and generally massive greed and hedoistic desires that lead to people fucking people over and creating natural disasters and famine and disease to make sure most people die horrible deaths as well as most animals i think id take a free ticket to heaven and THEN have free will tyvm or not designing humans with horrible flaws that coincidentally correspond to things that were evolutionary advantages People with psychological disorders are the extreme minority, not the norm. Our bodies hold to the laws of nature, which mean they're fallible and prone to issues. We deal with those both personally and we deal with other people's issues as well. I don't know why the mind evolved to allow these things to happen, or if God designed them that way for a reason. I can only talk about things I do know. Why do terrible things happen? Why does our world sometimes have disasters that kill hundreds and thousands of innocents and good people? I don't know, but bad things do not disprove the existence of good. Well, no, you're talking about things you think and believe. Which is totally fine, but it's not necessarily something you know. We know that gravity makes things go down and that an object in motion tends to stay in motion. We also know that there are scientific properties behind all of this. The difference is that you believe God is behind it, while I think that it just is the way it is. Gravity doesn't make things go down. Gravity pulls two objects together in three dimensional space. We know it happens, but there actually isn't any reasoning as to why. All objects in the universe pull together with force. How much force depends on their relative sizes. Where does that force come from?
Holy crap I know that gravity is a force between all objects, I was being intentionally basic there, I did take intro to physics lol.
As for where it comes from, I don't remember off the top of my head if I ever learned it, or if the answer has even been discovered yet. But just because I don't know its origin doesn't make me want to think that a god is behind it. Not having an answer for things is totally fine.
On August 01 2014 05:01 PrinceXizor wrote:SO... gonna play some rift in a little bit. is yango going to bless us with his presence eventually?
I hate you guys for making me want to play again, but at the same time, I don't mind cuz it's F2P. It's weird cuz the last time I DID play Rift, it was subscription.
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On August 01 2014 05:06 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I hate you guys for making me want to play again, but at the same time, I don't mind cuz it's F2P. It's weird cuz the last time I DID play Rift, it was subscription.
^_^ much easier to allow time to a f2p game yeah. i played when it was sub too.
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I'm not saying God is behind it. I'm saying we don't know a lot of things. And if one can't talk about things they don't know, one can't talk about nearly anything. Emotions are fleeting and unknown. You can love someone one day and feel nothing for them the next. Many scientific principles are unknown, we just use what works based on our knowledge until it is disproven. So if I talk about anything I'm talking about things I only know as much as I can.
I know the tenents of the Christian faith and the beliefs that are taught about God, so when I say "I can only speak about things I know", I mean "I can only speak about things I know to be widely believed in the faith". Why God created imperfect things and people is unknown in that regard.
Hope that clears it up.
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I'd like to thank Frudgey for keeping me entertained through today's workday
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how do the modern christians explain the contradictions and horrible things it says in the bible?
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On August 01 2014 05:26 ComaDose wrote:
how do the modern christians explain the contradictions and horrible things it says in the bible?
On August 01 2014 05:16 Requizen wrote:
Why God created imperfect things and people is unknown in that regard.
2 posts above you comadose
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On August 01 2014 04:57 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 04:35 Slayer91 wrote:
or fuck it just make earth heaven which is sort of was until god went full ragemode becaues adam ate a fucking apple jesus christ what a temperamental son of a bitch
how about not punish all humankind because some bitch who thought she could talk to snakes
also get rid of satan whats the point of punishing people just let them go to heaven too why discriminate
oh but blah blah souls well you're god aren't you fix the legal details of souls so everyone goes all the time
Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 04:43 Slayer91 wrote:
I mean everything is contradictory the point of the Satan God thing is so there's a god guy and a bad guy and the guys who are assholes on the internet and IRL get fucked in the afterlife with pitchforks so you can feel smug about them doing things you don't like.
yaeh if I were god I also wouldn't invent someone whos basically the definition of pure evil
big mistake there bro
you guys should elect me gods advisor id fix things up so fast you wouldn't believe Gee I wonder why I don't want to have these types of discussions. Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 04:40 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I always found it a bit contradictory that Satan would punish those sent to hell. If Satan is God's enemy, and those who disobey God get sent to hell, wouldn't Satan want to reward them? Hell isn't what you see on TV with Satan sitting around with a pitchfork. Hell is separation from God, less of a physical place with physical tortures.
How do you know hell isn't what you see on TV? How do you know God loves humans like his children? How can you propose to understand the mind of God? You're just believing something that someone proposed based on something somebody wrote and and was judged to be inspired by god by a panel of guys when they were putting together the old testament
On August 01 2014 05:26 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 05:26 ComaDose wrote:
how do the modern christians explain the contradictions and horrible things it says in the bible? Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 05:16 Requizen wrote:
Why God created imperfect things and people is unknown in that regard.
2 posts above you comadose
Well women had no rights during the time of the bible so cooincidentally the bible says that men have authority over women, similarly it's okay to stone people for adultery because thats what they did at the time the bible was written
seems to be all the morals written in the bible were exactly those suitable for BC Jewish society.
Christ tried to call bullshit on it and they rapped him for it, but the christians lived on and just went on Jesus' teaching of love and peace but decided to make up a load of stuff loosely based on the bible to try to link jesus with the old testament
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