EPTOff-Topic General Discussion - Page 2650
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Celial
2602 Posts
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On August 01 2014 00:55 jcarlsoniv wrote: hmm, that's fair I see a lot of discrimination, hatred, and anger being attributed or rooting from religious beliefs (Middle East conflict right now is an easy example), which just doesn't make sense to me. It's all about being generous and helping those less fortunate and shit like that, who cares which religion that person follows? I know a lot of the violence comes from the religious extremists, and it's likely some confirmation bias on my part, but it just seems silly to want to kill people for not believing in the same invisible being that you do. Yeah that's a lot of confirmation bias. The amount of people that hurt and kill each other over money, drugs, spouts of rage, domestic violence, jealousy, general hatred, psychopathic tendencies, or loss of control due to drug use fairly well dwarfs the amount of violence caused by religious differences on a numerical basis. Recently, there is a lot happening in the middle east and paranoia with Islamic extremists, but even many of those conflicts are due to political maneuvering in the background. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On August 01 2014 01:03 ComaDose wrote: i'd join a religion that doesn't ask for money and use it to oppress people Buddhism is close. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
tl;dr - greek myth is cool | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
On August 01 2014 00:18 kainzero wrote: my biggest doubt for a religion being correct is that the origins of the religion always seem to ignore the rest of the world like why did all that old testament stuff happen about cursing those who believe in false gods when south americans had no idea what was supposed to be the "right" god and stuff Romans 1 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. The main points being that God is just and only judges people based on their knowledge. Romans 4:15 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression. It's not unusual or even surprising to have questions. You can find a lot of smarter and more articulate people's opinions and explanations if you're truly interested. You can also find a lot of crap so you need to be critical obviously. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On August 01 2014 01:03 ComaDose wrote: i'd join a religion that doesn't ask for money and use it to oppress people You can have faith in the tenants of a religion without agreeing with or conforming to all of the parts of the religious organization. People seem to forget about that. Faith is the important part, it comes from the spirit or teachings of the higher power that passed it down to the followers. The structure of the organization was built by men to try and spread that word, but men are fallible and once given power, will use it selfishly and incorrectly. The point of following a religion is to grow in faith, not to align yourself with the people who run the coffers. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
It says a lot about value systems, casts, etc. how society worked in these cultures. Christianity fucked so much stuff up by trying to destroy everything not its via assimilation, though... | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On August 01 2014 01:12 mordek wrote: Romans 1 The main points being that God is just and only judges people based on their knowledge. Romans 4:15 It's not unusual or even surprising to have questions. You can find a lot of smarter and more articulate people's opinions and explanations if you're truly interested. You can also find a lot of crap so you need to be critical obviously. Which bears the question - what if a group of people were isolated from much of the world. One day, a group of religious people find them and spread the word of God to them, but they were already believing in something else. Is that group of people now condemned because they have now been given the knowledge of this god? | ||
MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On August 01 2014 01:03 Celial wrote: i was just checking the tl commandments, wasnt there once upon a time a paragraph about no religious discussions? it isnt there anymore, but i really remember that being in there. Relugious discussions are banned from the General Forum because they always descend into asinine arguements and are an agony to read let alone moderate. I am somewhat ok with this discussion in OT for now. Because the community here is smaller and knows each other I think it's much EDIT: Corrected post lol | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
On August 01 2014 01:18 jcarlsoniv wrote: Which bears the question - what if a group of people were isolated from much of the world. One day, a group of religious people find them and spread the word of God to them, but they were already believing in something else. Is that group of people now condemned because they have now been given the knowledge of this god? That is how most if not all people would interpret that, yes. Keep in mind you are putting a lot of stress on the condemnation aspect when truly it is about sharing the glory and love of God. Creation is to honor him, people have the choice to chose their wickedness. Those people are only condemned if they know the law which makes them aware of their sin and they do not repent. This is the focus of much of Romans, I'd recommend reading Paul's words further instead of just what I quoted. (I only say this not to stop a discussion but so that you can see what the Bible actually says, don't take my word for it.) | ||
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Frudgey
Canada3367 Posts
On August 01 2014 01:19 MoonBear wrote: Relugious discussions are banned from the General Forum because they always descend into asinine arguements and are an agony to read let alone moderate. I am somewhat ok with this discussion in OT for now. Because the community here is smaller and knows each other I think it's much less likely that the discussion can stay reasonable and respectful, and avoid ridiculous hyperbole or arguments becoming personal. After all, there is no point trying to burn bridges with people who you're going to interact with regularly especially in a small community. Clearly, MoonBear has no faith in us. *Ba dum tish* | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On August 01 2014 01:13 Requizen wrote: You can have faith in the tenants of a religion without agreeing with or conforming to all of the parts of the religious organization. People seem to forget about that. Faith is the important part, it comes from the spirit or teachings of the higher power that passed it down to the followers. The structure of the organization was built by men to try and spread that word, but men are fallible and once given power, will use it selfishly and incorrectly. The point of following a religion is to grow in faith, not to align yourself with the people who run the coffers. Tenets. Sorry that was bugging me.  Actually there was another one a few pages ago but now I forget what it was. Carry on | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On August 01 2014 01:22 mordek wrote: That is how most if not all people would interpret that, yes. Keep in mind you are putting a lot of stress on the condemnation aspect when truly it is about sharing the glory and love of God. Creation is to honor him, people have the choice to chose their wickedness. Those people are only condemned if they know the law which makes them aware of their sin and they do not repent. This is the focus of much of Romans, I'd recommend reading Paul's words further instead of just what I quoted. (I only say this not to stop a discussion but so that you can see what the Bible actually says, don't take my word for it.) Sure, I understand. I've just always thought it was a bit odd that it's like "Hey, I just met you, and this is crazy, but these are my god's laws, so now you have to choose whether or not you want to abandon what you believed before to follow this thing I've now introduced to you, else burn in hell." | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23468 Posts
On August 01 2014 00:55 jcarlsoniv wrote: hmm, that's fair I see a lot of discrimination, hatred, and anger being attributed or rooting from religious beliefs (Middle East conflict right now is an easy example), which just doesn't make sense to me. It's all about being generous and helping those less fortunate and shit like that, who cares which religion that person follows? I know a lot of the violence comes from the religious extremists, and it's likely some confirmation bias on my part, but it just seems silly to want to kill people for not believing in the same invisible being that you do. its not religious beliefs at heart, its just when people have a hard time they like to band together and create an "us vs them" mentality instead of havingto blame things on their own lack of strength and it destroys everything see: Catholics vs Protestants, Medieval Christians Crusades, Nazis vs Jews, Feminism vs Patriarchy, KKK vs NEGROS, Muslims vs Jews, Muslims vs USA, USA vs Commies, Commies vs Capitalist Pigs, Natives vs Filthy Immigrants (Gangs of New York, vs Irish, Irish vs Polish, English vs Indians USA vs Mexicans Germans vs Turkish) soon: ATHEISTS VS CHRISTIANS of course you also have disputes district by district and country by country and family by family (think gypsy rivalries) I really like this old Arabian proverb: "Myself against my brother, myself and my brother against my family, my family against my clan, my clan against my country, my country against the world." | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
On August 01 2014 01:40 jcarlsoniv wrote: Sure, I understand. I've just always thought it was a bit odd that it's like "Hey, I just met you, and this is crazy, but these are my god's laws, so now you have to choose whether or not you want to abandon what you believed before to follow this thing I've now introduced to you, else burn in hell." Well when your view of it is that Yahweh is the god of the Jews, the Pantheon is the Greeks, and so-and-so is the god of these people than yeah, it's like I'm right you're wrong. But if you think about it this way, just shift to this as part of a thought experiment. There is a God who created everything. He revealed himself in the ways described in the Old and New Testament. What do you do? It's not about "or else burn in hell". It's, "You had an idea that nature/creation revealed that there is a god, intrinsically you knew that. Let me explain how He's revealed Himself to us and how He wants us to act and respond to Him." The burning in hell thing is over done. It's not about suffer because you chose wrong. It's when you choose to separate yourself from God, it's going to suck. He is everything that is good. He gave you the choice but if you chose yourself than there's consequences to choices. Otherwise there's no choice. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23468 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
I'm pretty good myself + Show Spoiler + at LoL | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On August 01 2014 01:47 Slayer91 wrote: And this means the reason you want them believe YOUR gods laws is because then you're one of "us" and not one of "them". If you want to look at it that way, but that's not how it's taught. Christians are called to spread the word of Christ because a) God loves everyone and He wants them to know that, and b) Christians are/should be brought to happiness through their connection with Christ and want to share that with as many people as possible. It's not about being right and wrong, it's more about wanting your neighbors in Christ (i.e. everyone) to be as happy as you are. That's not to say that happiness can only be found through religion, because obviously many people find happiness in their own ways. But, Christians believe that true, lasting, eternal happiness will be found in heaven, and spreading that to as many people as possible will bring happiness to those people. Of course, this isn't the thing that people on either side seem to focus on, but the point is to spread love and happiness. | ||
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