EPTuntil then its fun, but MMO-fun and not like special.
like if i could from level 1 start a town in the rough with a group of people i think i'd marry that game.
Off-Topic General Discussion - Page 2646
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
until then its fun, but MMO-fun and not like special. like if i could from level 1 start a town in the rough with a group of people i think i'd marry that game. | ||
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Shelke14
Canada6655 Posts
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On July 31 2014 12:43 Parnage wrote: You guys know you can settle on like a number of islands and build your own little empire there right? Or go full pirate and screw both factions. yeah, and the third continent as well. but you start deep within your own continent, and getting to the spots where you have that sort of freedom takes a lot of korean mmo grinding. which can be fun. but i literally have no idea how to start training my crafting for masonry and construction yet for example, so i'm worried i'm going to be super behind by the time i can do that, so that i'm actually unable.to settle and construct. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 31 2014 12:23 Requizen wrote: Roguelikes (and I agree with Yango that term is pretty liberally used nowadays) are pretty boring to me. Fundamentally a roguelike (in the truest sense referring to games like ADOM, Angband, Moria, DCSS, etc.) is a risk-management game. You are given a task to complete. Along the way you are given various finite perishable resources (scrolls, wands, potions, etc.). Your mission is time sensitive (hampered by limited resources like food--or sometimes corruption mechanics that injure your character if you take too long to prevent grinding). You are given challenges (boss monsters, etc.), many of which are not initially beatable, and some of which require you to use your finite resources to pass. The challenge and skill of the game is figuring out when to splurge and when to conserve your finite resources--which is particularly complicated that these resources tend to come unidentified and you have to try them to find out what they are. Here, the permadeath is important--because it puts weight on the risk management. You have to evaluate your challenges and your resources carefully because you don't get to go back and reload when you fuck up. You can't chance something with a low chance of success to try and save some resources cuz if you fuck up the game is over. And while the game sometimes feels like it's luck based, the good roguelikes like DCSS (probably the roguelike that best embraces this gameplay) are pretty damn good at rewarding this skill. Implemented correctly, the game is fun because it feels skill-based and you can see the results of your improvement over multiple playthroughs. The problem is that many of these modern roguelikes don't use permadeath all that well. They don't use it as a means to encourage certain modes of player decision-making, which doesn't make them feel interesting. Rather the term roguelike simply ends up referring to the permadeath+RPG elements combo. They don't fully embrace other risk-management schemes to complement the permadeath. Fundamentally, permadeath is supposed to change how you think about the game to make it a more interesting experience, but many of the neo-roguelikes are games that aren't actually improved by having permadeath in the game (other than to make the game longer thanks to the difficulty of completing the entire game in one run). As such, they lose the soul of what makes the roguelike genre interesting. | ||
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Frudgey
Canada3367 Posts
On July 31 2014 12:41 Shelke14 wrote: Shotgun being mayor of our town Can I be the guy who lives in the drinking well? That seems like the place that I'd be. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 31 2014 12:51 PrinceXizor wrote: I dislike the true roguelikes because if i want to play a strategy game i want it dressed up like a strategy game. not dressed like an RPG. Isn't that what DotA/LoL are? Strategy games dressed up as RPGs? They just dress it up a different way. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On July 31 2014 12:52 TheYango wrote: Isn't that what DotA/LoL are? Strategy games dressed up as RPGs? They just dress it up a different way. Eh to me its still dressed up as a strategy game. the games don't see very RPG-y to me. but like rogue/ dcss are seemingly RPGs but inherently you need far more strategy to beat them. you don't really explore anything in dota/lol you don't interact with the world around you in a lore-focused fashion, you don't find loot for example. the genre just feels very different to me than roguelikes do. roguelikes feel like RPGs that you play like strategy games. i also dislike the puzzle/strategy games that seem like RPGs as well, like desktop dungeons. | ||
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
On July 31 2014 12:47 PrinceXizor wrote: yeah, and the third continent as well. but you start deep within your own continent, and getting to the spots where you have that sort of freedom takes a lot of korean mmo grinding. which can be fun. but i literally have no idea how to start training my crafting for masonry and construction yet for example, so i'm worried i'm going to be super behind by the time i can do that, so that i'm actually unable.to settle and construct. Like most things in sandbox's you'll need to hit up 3rd party sources for how to do things quickly and properly so you don't end up messing up later at a critical point. Generally it's simple matter of google searching and if you are really lucky know someone who's played on the Russian servers and are familiar of the things you'll need to do(admittedly the russian version is more annoying from all accounts) | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
First item room is the Wafer. As the run progresses I pick up Epic Fetus, about 100 Health Up pills, Mitre, a million Soul Hearts, Sacrificial Knife....I don't even remember the rest. I wanted to take a screenshot. My health bar was full of red hearts and I had soul hearts way off the screen, probably close to 30. I literally just stood next to Blue baby to kill him. Pretty hilarious first run back. I think I may try learning to speedrun that game properly. Also NecroDancer is fun, and harder than it looks. The multitasking/rhythm aspect adds a very interesting level of difficulty. Yango re: modern roguelikes---the thing is, the modern roguelike is done in a way as to be easily digestible. The kind of game you're speaking about likely has a much lower target audience (in terms of numbers) as permadeath and trying to return to the power level you might have once achieved can be very frustrating. In the modern ones, the games are short and it's very easily accessible. As far as the risk management aspect goes, there is always risk management involved---I can speak about Isaac specifically---you need to know when it's worth it to pick up an item like Ipecac, for example, which has the potential to kill you if not used well, or when to trade health for money if you think you can try to benefit from it. Those are minor examples, but I think what the community has done in terms of the racing/speedrunning adds a greater depth to that risk management because you add the fact that you're racing against someone else or the clock: do you spend a longer period of time clearing a floor hoping for better items, or do you think you have enough to beat your opponent/time and rush to the end as fast as you can, risking failure if you in fact aren't strong enough? | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
At the same time, it could be argued that it's not really a roguelike because the technical aspect puts it in line with other top-down action games. If Isaac were released 25 years ago as an NES top down Zelda-like that didn't have continues, nobody would ever call it a roguelike despite the gameplay being essentially the same. My quip was largely at the glut of mediocre neo-roguelikes that have appeared on Steam that are thoroughly unmemorable. It was also trying to make a point of why Req might feel unsatisfied with many of these games because the ones that are done poorly ARE unsatisfying games to play. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
doesn't matter at all what you have after that, you are completely immortal as long as you have 1.5 spirit hearts total or more. maggie nuns habit wafer yum heart also works and is much easier to get going but wafer is difficult to get due to the pool its in. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On July 31 2014 14:49 PrinceXizor wrote: wave the best run you can hope for is nuns habit, wafer, blue baby, book of revelations. doesn't matter at all what you have after that, you are completely immortal as long as you have 1.5 spirit hearts total or more. maggie nuns habit wafer yum heart also works and is much easier to get going but wafer is difficult to get due to the pool its in. I've had a run like that once long ago. I think my current was better because with infinite health runs you gotta remember to press spacebar n' shit. Fuck that  Oh yeah I also had Crystal Ball for OP maphax and even more soul hearts | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On July 31 2014 14:53 WaveofShadow wrote: I've had a run like that once long ago. I think my current was better because with infinite health runs you gotta remember to press spacebar n' shit. Fuck that Oh yeah I also had Crystal Ball for OP maphax and even more soul hearts well if you don't want to remember to press space bar, farm curse room and d20/d6 on a floor to get 7-8 marks and brimstone.then just brimsnap once on blue baby and kill him.  side note: did a couple dungeons in rift. i'm happy with how my build is playing out in low levels. :D | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On July 31 2014 15:01 PrinceXizor wrote: well if you don't want to remember to press space bar, farm curse room and d20/d6 on a floor to get 7-8 marks and brimstone.then just brimsnap once on blue baby and kill him. side note: did a couple dungeons in rift. i'm happy with how my build is playing out in low levels. :DLol watching Dick Hammer do a breaking run right now...he's going to crash the game with giant teeth that are too big for the screen. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
Moving along: why is this not a movie yet, like how have they slept on this for so long? In development isn't good enough anymore, this should've been one of the first one's out when comic book movies became a thing. + Show Spoiler [Deadpool] + | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On July 31 2014 15:48 red_ wrote: I could never get that into Isaac. Beat mom, did a couple other runs for some extra stuff(this was before Lamb), then it was like cool fun game I'm done. For a game that I paid a dollar for or whatever I was really happy with what I got out of it, but I never got the attachment that would make me want to play for platinum god or speedrunning it. Moving along: why is this not a movie yet, like how have they slept on this for so long? In development isn't good enough anymore, this should've been one of the first one's out when comic book movies became a thing. + Show Spoiler [Deadpool] + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CphFZGH5030 because deadpool has to be written very very very well for the movie to be any good. its not like superman batman that can get away with being cheesy or dark respectively. deadpool comics have a very specific tone that is difficult to write for if you don't have experience with it. not only that but deadpool is an adult comic for the most part. and when comic book movies started coming out it was "for the family". Watchmen was the first to buck that trend and be successful though. so until that was proven i doubt studios wanted to take the risk on a difficult to script "niche market" movie. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On July 31 2014 16:25 PrinceXizor wrote: because deadpool has to be written very very very well for the movie to be any good. its not like superman batman that can get away with being cheesy or dark respectively. deadpool comics have a very specific tone that is difficult to write for if you don't have experience with it. not only that but deadpool is an adult comic for the most part. and when comic book movies started coming out it was "for the family". Watchmen was the first to buck that trend and be successful though. so until that was proven i doubt studios wanted to take the risk on a difficult to script "niche market" movie. And yet that didn't stop them from destroying the character in that godawful Xmen movie. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On July 31 2014 16:29 WaveofShadow wrote: And yet that didn't stop them from destroying the character in that godawful Xmen movie. yeah thats an example of someone only reading a summary of deadpool and trying to write him in as a character. I think more than anything, people will be able to look back at three things that lead to the deadpool movie being possible. the success financially of watchmen, ryan reynolds fayboyism for the character, and probably how mainstream MVC3 got. that game was everywhere because people wanted to play as the Xmen in a fighting game, then they saw the avengers and iron man movies and it blew up more. people tried out and got exposed to deadpool probably for the first time in that game, and the game does him justice and made him popular within that game. | ||
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