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Off-Topic General Discussion - Page 2537

Forum Index > The Shopkeeper′s Inn
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Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
July 20 2014 17:12 GMT
#50721
These teams are just clowns. That entertainment value.
Crusnik
Profile Joined December 2010
United States5378 Posts
July 20 2014 17:16 GMT
#50722
There is a reasons Cloud9 is called Clown9, jus' sayin'
Steam: rook492
Cixah
Profile Joined July 2010
United States11285 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-20 17:28:48
July 20 2014 17:17 GMT
#50723
This Meepo pick is doing MAD work.

EDIT:

This clock is the manliest fucker in the world. Holy shit.
Hug The Goat! Hug the Goat! Hug the Goat!
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
July 20 2014 17:28 GMT
#50724
ee han timing!
Crusnik
Profile Joined December 2010
United States5378 Posts
July 20 2014 17:30 GMT
#50725
That deathpush for VG though! C9 played that well, like really, really well. Holy shit. Game 3 is going to be sickkkkkkkkkkk
Steam: rook492
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
July 20 2014 17:31 GMT
#50726
You can't let bone7 get clock anymore. he shouldn't touch that hero the rest of the tournament.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
July 20 2014 17:33 GMT
#50727
I don't know if Lumi is just really C9 biased so he's making it sound like it's a miracle they won when they have an argubly better late game lineup than VG. How is the noob stream?
Cixah
Profile Joined July 2010
United States11285 Posts
July 20 2014 17:34 GMT
#50728
On July 21 2014 02:31 PrinceXizor wrote:
You can't let bone7 get clock anymore. he shouldn't touch that hero the rest of the tournament.


Yea but then who do you give C9? Lycan on Dire? Doom AND lycan? The first two bans for VG are pretty much already there, if they do ban clock you risk giving c9 an S tier hero and having to play into that while against the dire advantage in game 3.
Hug The Goat! Hug the Goat! Hug the Goat!
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
July 20 2014 17:37 GMT
#50729
On July 21 2014 02:34 Cixah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2014 02:31 PrinceXizor wrote:
You can't let bone7 get clock anymore. he shouldn't touch that hero the rest of the tournament.


Yea but then who do you give C9? Lycan on Dire? Doom AND lycan? The first two bans for VG are pretty much already there, if they do ban clock you risk giving c9 an S tier hero and having to play into that while against the dire advantage in game 3.

who cares about doom? he's good but he's far from an unbeatable hero. c9 values doom over everything so you know their first pick every time. bone7 has won half of c9's game off of his clockwerk. thats more of a threat than doom. you banned Prophet vs Alliance even though there were much stronger heroes in the pool because its something you don't give up.
Crusnik
Profile Joined December 2010
United States5378 Posts
July 20 2014 17:38 GMT
#50730
On July 21 2014 02:33 Numy wrote:
I don't know if Lumi is just really C9 biased so he's making it sound like it's a miracle they won when they have an argubly better late game lineup than VG. How is the noob stream?


Vici's comp was really, really AoE heavy. As that game showed, VG's late game was as good, if not better than C9s. Eclipse, double Ravage, Exorcism, plus Macropyre/ice path/liquid fire from Jakiro and Fissure/Echo Slam from Earth Shaker. If even most of those hit 2-3 people on C9, VG wins. Luna takes towers really quickly late game, bouncing blades with a butterfly/manta does a ton of damage, he could take both tier 4s in a matter of seconds, if he had focused on the towers instead of clockwerk, they could have easily had an open Ancient, if not a dead one and be in the LB Semis.
Steam: rook492
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-20 17:41:08
July 20 2014 17:38 GMT
#50731
On July 21 2014 02:37 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2014 02:34 Cixah wrote:
On July 21 2014 02:31 PrinceXizor wrote:
You can't let bone7 get clock anymore. he shouldn't touch that hero the rest of the tournament.


Yea but then who do you give C9? Lycan on Dire? Doom AND lycan? The first two bans for VG are pretty much already there, if they do ban clock you risk giving c9 an S tier hero and having to play into that while against the dire advantage in game 3.

who cares about doom? he's good but he's far from an unbeatable hero. c9 values doom over everything so you know their first pick every time. bone7 has won half of c9's game off of his clockwerk. thats more of a threat than doom. you banned Prophet vs Alliance even though there were much stronger heroes in the pool because its something you don't give up.


Doom was one of the reasons they even won that game. Doom in late game destroys single core teams which is basically what VG was in that game. DP in the late game has damage but it's very slow sustained damage so all doom had to do with get a doom on sylar and/or Tide to win the fight. The clock helped as well but it was the Doom that sealed the deal.

On July 21 2014 02:38 Crusnik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2014 02:33 Numy wrote:
I don't know if Lumi is just really C9 biased so he's making it sound like it's a miracle they won when they have an argubly better late game lineup than VG. How is the noob stream?


Vici's comp was really, really AoE heavy. As that game showed, VG's late game was as good, if not better than C9s. Eclipse, double Ravage, Exorcism, plus Macropyre/ice path/liquid fire from Jakiro and Fissure/Echo Slam from Earth Shaker. If even most of those hit 2-3 people on C9, VG wins. Luna takes towers really quickly late game, bouncing blades with a butterfly/manta does a ton of damage, he could take both tier 4s in a matter of seconds, if he had focused on the towers instead of clockwerk, they could have easily had an open Ancient, if not a dead one and be in the LB Semis.


Thing is you are forgetting about doom. Doom means all that farm on Luna is meaningless and Meepo doesn't care about Aoe late game. Double Doom just wins every single fight against VGs lineup due to them not having enough damage sources besides Luna in late game. Doom makes every fight 5v3 in the late game.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-20 17:42:40
July 20 2014 17:42 GMT
#50732
On July 21 2014 02:38 Numy wrote:

Thing is you are forgetting about doom. Doom means all that farm on Luna is meaningless and Meepo doesn't care about Aoe late game. Double Doom just wins every single fight against VGs lineup due to them not having enough damage sources besides Luna in late game.

Aegis beats doom, so you can play around him if you prioritize roshan. It'd be silly to ban doom over clock vs C9. C9 doom has won them less games than clock, you have to ban for the team. bone7 makes mistakes on many heroes, but clock is one he plays exceptionally well. EE is a mediocre doom player.

Numy you definitely over-value doom.
Cixah
Profile Joined July 2010
United States11285 Posts
July 20 2014 17:44 GMT
#50733
On July 21 2014 02:42 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2014 02:38 Numy wrote:

Thing is you are forgetting about doom. Doom means all that farm on Luna is meaningless and Meepo doesn't care about Aoe late game. Double Doom just wins every single fight against VGs lineup due to them not having enough damage sources besides Luna in late game.

Aegis beats doom, so you can play around him if you prioritize roshan. It'd be silly to ban doom over clock vs C9. C9 doom has won them less games than clock, you have to ban for the team. bone7 makes mistakes on many heroes, but clock is one he plays exceptionally well. EE is a mediocre doom player.

Numy you definitely over-value doom.


I think you Undervalue doom. If you're killing the doomed target during a 5 man team fight you are doing it wrong. Aegis counters it if you're playing bad, which you are already at that point playing bad.
Hug The Goat! Hug the Goat! Hug the Goat!
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-20 17:48:07
July 20 2014 17:46 GMT
#50734
On July 21 2014 02:42 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2014 02:38 Numy wrote:

Thing is you are forgetting about doom. Doom means all that farm on Luna is meaningless and Meepo doesn't care about Aoe late game. Double Doom just wins every single fight against VGs lineup due to them not having enough damage sources besides Luna in late game.

Aegis beats doom, so you can play around him if you prioritize roshan. It'd be silly to ban doom over clock vs C9. C9 doom has won them less games than clock, you have to ban for the team. bone7 makes mistakes on many heroes, but clock is one he plays exceptionally well. EE is a mediocre doom player.

Numy you definitely over-value doom.


Doom is one of the most banned heroes with Lycan and most picked. He has a 62% winrate at TI4 and is valued as first pick by all the Chinese teams. I guess pro teams also over-value doom? Aegis doesn't "beat" doom aegis. You can't just buy an aegis and it has a respawn time.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


and datdota stats http://www.datdota.com/tournament.php?q=285&tournament=The International 2014&p=heroes

PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-20 17:48:54
July 20 2014 17:47 GMT
#50735
On July 21 2014 02:46 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2014 02:42 PrinceXizor wrote:
On July 21 2014 02:38 Numy wrote:

Thing is you are forgetting about doom. Doom means all that farm on Luna is meaningless and Meepo doesn't care about Aoe late game. Double Doom just wins every single fight against VGs lineup due to them not having enough damage sources besides Luna in late game.

Aegis beats doom, so you can play around him if you prioritize roshan. It'd be silly to ban doom over clock vs C9. C9 doom has won them less games than clock, you have to ban for the team. bone7 makes mistakes on many heroes, but clock is one he plays exceptionally well. EE is a mediocre doom player.

Numy you definitely over-value doom.


Doom is one of the most banned heroes with Lycan and most picked. He has a 62% winrate at TI4 and is valued as first pick by all the Chinese teams. I guess pro teams also over-value doom? Aegis doesn't "beat" doom aegis. You can't just buy an aegis and it has a respawn time.

Pro teams don't value doom nearly as much as you do. you make him sound unbeatable. teams willingly give up doom especially vs C9 quite a bit. because EE isn't close to the best doom in the tournament. C9 plays one of the worst dooms. and the best clock.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
July 20 2014 17:48 GMT
#50736
On July 21 2014 02:47 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2014 02:46 Numy wrote:
On July 21 2014 02:42 PrinceXizor wrote:
On July 21 2014 02:38 Numy wrote:

Thing is you are forgetting about doom. Doom means all that farm on Luna is meaningless and Meepo doesn't care about Aoe late game. Double Doom just wins every single fight against VGs lineup due to them not having enough damage sources besides Luna in late game.

Aegis beats doom, so you can play around him if you prioritize roshan. It'd be silly to ban doom over clock vs C9. C9 doom has won them less games than clock, you have to ban for the team. bone7 makes mistakes on many heroes, but clock is one he plays exceptionally well. EE is a mediocre doom player.

Numy you definitely over-value doom.


Doom is one of the most banned heroes with Lycan and most picked. He has a 62% winrate at TI4 and is valued as first pick by all the Chinese teams. I guess pro teams also over-value doom? Aegis doesn't "beat" doom aegis. You can't just buy an aegis and it has a respawn time.

Pro teams don't value doom nearly as much as you do. you make him sound unbeatable. teams willingly give up doom especially vs C9 quite a bit.


Do you perhaps have any stats to back up this opinion?
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-20 17:56:56
July 20 2014 17:51 GMT
#50737
On July 21 2014 02:48 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2014 02:47 PrinceXizor wrote:
On July 21 2014 02:46 Numy wrote:
On July 21 2014 02:42 PrinceXizor wrote:
On July 21 2014 02:38 Numy wrote:

Thing is you are forgetting about doom. Doom means all that farm on Luna is meaningless and Meepo doesn't care about Aoe late game. Double Doom just wins every single fight against VGs lineup due to them not having enough damage sources besides Luna in late game.

Aegis beats doom, so you can play around him if you prioritize roshan. It'd be silly to ban doom over clock vs C9. C9 doom has won them less games than clock, you have to ban for the team. bone7 makes mistakes on many heroes, but clock is one he plays exceptionally well. EE is a mediocre doom player.

Numy you definitely over-value doom.


Doom is one of the most banned heroes with Lycan and most picked. He has a 62% winrate at TI4 and is valued as first pick by all the Chinese teams. I guess pro teams also over-value doom? Aegis doesn't "beat" doom aegis. You can't just buy an aegis and it has a respawn time.

Pro teams don't value doom nearly as much as you do. you make him sound unbeatable. teams willingly give up doom especially vs C9 quite a bit.


Do you perhaps have any stats to back up this opinion?

Besides in the main event not a single match did doom get banned against C9. only C9 has banned doom this past draft just now?

teams give up doom vs C9 consistently throughout the tournament.

Going back through the tournament, doom has only been banned once vs C9, haven't gone through the groups yet.

doom only been banned 4 times vs C9 all tournament. and 2 of those times the other team got bat.
Cixah
Profile Joined July 2010
United States11285 Posts
July 20 2014 17:52 GMT
#50738
Clown9 strikes back.
Hug The Goat! Hug the Goat! Hug the Goat!
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-20 17:58:07
July 20 2014 17:57 GMT
#50739
On July 21 2014 02:51 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2014 02:48 Numy wrote:
On July 21 2014 02:47 PrinceXizor wrote:
On July 21 2014 02:46 Numy wrote:
On July 21 2014 02:42 PrinceXizor wrote:
On July 21 2014 02:38 Numy wrote:

Thing is you are forgetting about doom. Doom means all that farm on Luna is meaningless and Meepo doesn't care about Aoe late game. Double Doom just wins every single fight against VGs lineup due to them not having enough damage sources besides Luna in late game.

Aegis beats doom, so you can play around him if you prioritize roshan. It'd be silly to ban doom over clock vs C9. C9 doom has won them less games than clock, you have to ban for the team. bone7 makes mistakes on many heroes, but clock is one he plays exceptionally well. EE is a mediocre doom player.

Numy you definitely over-value doom.


Doom is one of the most banned heroes with Lycan and most picked. He has a 62% winrate at TI4 and is valued as first pick by all the Chinese teams. I guess pro teams also over-value doom? Aegis doesn't "beat" doom aegis. You can't just buy an aegis and it has a respawn time.

Pro teams don't value doom nearly as much as you do. you make him sound unbeatable. teams willingly give up doom especially vs C9 quite a bit.


Do you perhaps have any stats to back up this opinion?

Besides in the main event not a single match did doom get banned against C9. only C9 has banned doom this past draft just now?

teams give up doom vs C9 consistently throughout the tournament.

Going back through the tournament, doom has only been banned once vs C9, haven't gone through the groups yet.


Ok so there's two points here. One is that I overvalue doom, this I think I've proven is not true. Second is that C9 is bad with doom. That you can definitely argue for and against. This is largely due to Bone7 not playing doom and having Envy use him so I agree with that point to a certain extent. The previous game Envy was a huge reason they won that game with always Dooming the correct targets. They have been lackluster with him but that game was definitely not it.

Man another farming veno, really dislike that but seems to work out.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-20 18:02:14
July 20 2014 17:59 GMT
#50740
If teams aren't banning doom vs C9 and you think its a MUST BAN vs them, then you are overvaluing it.

i swear lumi is saying clown 9 every time.
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