EPTOff-Topic General Discussion - Page 2014
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Kyrie
1594 Posts
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
On May 21 2014 00:41 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: We'll take this into consideration but truth be told one of the things on our vast to-do list is actually simplifying customization instead of adding more options to it. Considering that LoL is the only game at the moment that is customizable, why don't you make LoL streams by default show under "other games," and then you can customize it by selecting "show LoL streams" where it actually organizes them into a specific LoL group on the sidebar? Then you can do this with any other big name games you add as well. That way by default only the Starcraft streams show, and all other game streams are put under "other games," but customizable, that way you can keep a standardized site look. However, if you're part of that "4%" you'll know about and can customize your sidebar so it organizes them in specific groups like "LoL streams," "x streams," "y streams," etc. | ||
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Shelke14
Canada6655 Posts
On May 21 2014 00:55 jcarlsoniv wrote: He's taken the time to offer our OT as a public forum. Please don't be rude. Has para ever posted before in off topic? I'm thrilled that naz is answering so many questions here with long well answered responses. Guy is busy enough as is and is willing to come do this, that itself shows he respects and understands the popularity that is TL-LoL. Para, show some respect. TL has a lot to consider when figuring out what to spend money on and at the moment they don't see league being something they can dive into yet. It's not like they don't notice how big league is globally but from a business stand point the risk to reward on how much they have to spend to even be considered a moderate to decent team is probably too much. Give it time. If it works out... Awesome... If not... Oh well. I wouldn't be surprised if League is brought up at most higher up meetings. Anyways I gotta get back to work. Lots to do! Mobile posting is so frustrating when typing this much! Just wanted to say thanks naz! Love the website | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
I really want to build my Monolith but I feel like this is one of those models I want to paint first. I don't think it would be too hard to paint once fully assembled, but I feel like the convenience might be better on this one for painting first with the 4 "sponsons" and all the corners. I might at least spray the whole thing black and then assemble, that way I could make sure it's a consistent base before putting it together, at least. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
@Nazgul - Do you guys view the TL sites now more as content producing entities than community forums? It feels like a lot of the issues people have may stem from different base ideas of what they wish the sites to be. If everyone knew where the other party was coming from I think this would go over easier. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
On May 21 2014 00:44 ParadeofMadness wrote: Why does TL hate LoL so much? One of the biggest games with the most active posters, yet only stream not by default is lol. Is Nazgul just jelly of Lol's popularity? pathetic If by TL you mean the community I can't answer that for you. If you mean staff I can tell you you're wrong. p.s. The only streams showing up as default are StarCraft 2 and Brood War now. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
This is a fantastic site and I will be using it for my campaign in the future. It's also a cool read for Pokemon fans in general. | ||
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ketchup
14521 Posts
On May 20 2014 20:57 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: The community is only one part of the variables involved with starting a standalone site. News coverage, Staff, Riot esports coverage, existing presence of large community sites, not having a Liquipedia, timing (better to come in early like we were able to do with Hearthstone), and other factors all play an important role as well. We do recognize there is a tight community here but we don't think it translates to standalone site opportunities the way this was the case for other games. Nazgul, Around the time TL introduced that you would be officially covering DotA2, the LoL blurb on the article was fairly dismissive of LoL on TL. A lot of times that TL gets mentioned on reddit for an article the TL LoL staff did, this transition into DotA2 is referenced, and the dismissive tone is set from there on. If I have my timeline correct, Season 2 World Championships for LoL were also coming up shortly after this article. This period of time was so perfect for TL to get a foot into LoL. This is a long time ago now, but it always confused me how it was handled. Would you change how you handled LoL back then or not? I know this is a long time ago, but there is definitely still room for TL to get into LoL. The only thing stopping progression has been TL staff. To add on to the above, there is still no "good" forum for LoL yet. There are various sites that cover LoL, but nothing that attempts to build on the community aspect. The official LoL forums are not really taken care of too well to develop it, or at least there is no real moderation there. Reddit's /r/LeagueofLegends is the closest thing, and it doesn't build the same type of community that TL can. I believe sincerely that there are still people looking for a community that TL LoL can offer, but that a lot of what TL staff have chosen to do has worked against growing TL LoL. These new changes seem like a pretty huge step backwards. Again, if I look at his from an outside perspective, you get a feeling that it dismisses LoL on TL. Any new user that might wander into TL from an article that TL LoL put out will probably wonder why TL LoL is under "other games" section. You would think that with how large the game itself is, it would be natural for it to be on a section of it's own. Lastly, speaking of LoL articles, why were they never spotlighted before? I don't understand how anyone would think that LoL articles/staff did not want to be spotlighted on TL. This makes absolutely no sense to me at all no matter how much I think about it. I know the quality was there. The amount of effort put in to the articles is easily seen. From what I recall, there were a few articles that were translated into Korean. This was so cool to hear about for me, because it was always TL who translated from various Korean news sites, but TL LoL actually got the reverse to happen! I find the lack of care given to TL LoL by TL just off putting, and honestly, it's not really difficult to see why TL LoL has staff issues. I don't know of any person that does not want to be acknowledged for their effort. To put it simply, TL has shown that it is fairly dismissive of the TL LoL staff/community. I sincerely wish you would change this, but I'm probably just hoping for something that will not happen. It's not really a surprise that TL LoL gets put back into the other games section, and I can understand why you think it fits what you see TL as being. I just don't think it's the correct choice when considering what TL means to many of us. I don't think I'll leave the TL LoL forums as long as they exist with the community we have, but it really does suck to see how stubborn TL has been with LoL any time it comes up. This is all coming from someone who is barely involved in TL LoL, so I cannot even imagine how TL LoL staff/writers must be feeling. I apologize for the length that this turned out to be | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
On May 21 2014 01:41 wei2coolman wrote: @Nazgul, would you say the huge influx of people to the site the main reason you guys started moving away from community aspect of TL? From our perspective we're actually moving towards the community aspect. I've explained this more in depth in my blog. Whenever doing things like that it's not going to resonate perfectly with every aspect of the community so I can understand if you feel that way. | ||
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ketchup
14521 Posts
On May 21 2014 01:59 NeoIllusions wrote: @ketchup: The reason why TL LoL articles weren't spotlighted before was because I never put in the request for it back then. There was a miscommunication disconnect between myself and the admins about what was expected from both parties (I didn't realize our articles could get spotlighted, admins weren't particularly made aware of our articles). I'll be honest here and say that I don't understand how that happens. If anyone from TL staff was paying attention to TL LoL articles, I think this issue would have been brought up or pointed out to you a lot earlier. Basically, as far as I remember, it's been around 2 years since TL LoL has been writing content for TL(even that DotA2 release has two articles from TL LoL which dates back to 2012). In that 2 years, no one from TL staff thought to say to you or pointed out to you that you could spotlight TL LoL articles? I don't see how that isn't a dismissal of TL LoL, and I see it as a statement that supports what I am saying. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
For example, the Twitch/Youtube deal discussion is posted three times: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/450721-youtube-to-acquire-twitch-for-1bn http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/hearthstone/2687-youtube-to-acquire-twitch-for-1bn http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/general/3289-youtube-to-acquire-twitch Was this a conscious decision to split the community into sections lead by more recognizable members of the subcommunity? Also why does LiquidDota have so much better CSS/Javascript swag than the main TL site? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On May 21 2014 02:12 xes wrote: To follow up on adding other games into streams cross-site, has there been consideration for cross-site community as well? Most of the subforums under the "Community" category are game agnostic and it would make for more streamlined TL engagement to not have to go to separate sites. For example, the Twitch/Youtube deal discussion is posted three times: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/450721-youtube-to-acquire-twitch-for-1bn http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/hearthstone/2687-youtube-to-acquire-twitch-for-1bn http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/general/3289-youtube-to-acquire-twitch Was this a conscious decision to split the community into sections lead by more recognizable members of the subcommunity? Also why does LiquidDota have so much better CSS/Javascript swag than the main TL site? -->large influx of players -->tl overcrowded -->split into forums based on the main game they play -->removes clutter from the sites that people don't want to read rather than just customizing it so they only want to see what they want makes sense to me | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
On May 21 2014 01:53 ketchup wrote: Nazgul, Around the time TL introduced that you would be officially covering DotA2, the LoL blurb on the article was fairly dismissive of LoL on TL. A lot of times that TL gets mentioned on reddit for an article the TL LoL staff did, this transition into DotA2 is referenced, and the dismissive tone is set from there on. If I have my timeline correct, Season 2 World Championships for LoL were also coming up shortly after this article. This period of time was so perfect for TL to get a foot into LoL. This is a long time ago now, but it always confused me how it was handled. Would you change how you handled LoL back then or not? I know this is a long time ago, but there is definitely still room for TL to get into LoL. The only thing stopping progression has been TL staff. To add on to the above, there is still no "good" forum for LoL yet. There are various sites that cover LoL, but nothing that attempts to build on the community aspect. The official LoL forums are not really taken care of too well to develop it, or at least there is no real moderation there. Reddit's /r/LeagueofLegends is the closest thing, and it doesn't build the same type of community that TL can. I believe sincerely that there are still people looking for a community that TL LoL can offer, but that a lot of what TL staff have chosen to do has worked against growing TL LoL. These new changes seem like a pretty huge step backwards. Again, if I look at his from an outside perspective, you get a feeling that it dismisses LoL on TL. Any new user that might wander into TL from an article that TL LoL put out will probably wonder why TL LoL is under "other games" section. You would think that with how large the game itself is, it would be natural for it to be on a section of it's own. Lastly, speaking of LoL articles, why were they never spotlighted before? I don't understand how anyone would think that LoL articles/staff did not want to be spotlighted on TL. This makes absolutely no sense to me at all no matter how much I think about it. I know the quality was there. The amount of effort put in to the articles is easily seen. From what I recall, there were a few articles that were translated into Korean. This was so cool to hear about for me, because it was always TL who translated from various Korean news sites, but TL LoL actually got the reverse to happen! I find the lack of care given to TL LoL by TL just off putting, and honestly, it's not really difficult to see why TL LoL has staff issues. I don't know of any person that does not want to be acknowledged for their effort. To put it simply, TL has shown that it is fairly dismissive of the TL LoL staff/community. I sincerely wish you would change this, but I'm probably just hoping for something that will not happen. It's not really a surprise that TL LoL gets put back into the other games section, and I can understand why you think it fits what you see TL as being. I just don't think it's the correct choice when considering what TL means to many of us. I don't think I'll leave the TL LoL forums as long as they exist with the community we have, but it really does suck to see how stubborn TL has been with LoL any time it comes up. This is all coming from someone who is barely involved in TL LoL, so I cannot even imagine how TL LoL staff/writers must be feeling. I apologize for the length that this turned out to be For the full answer on whether or not it was a mistake I could probably fill a book. We've recently gone through a whole period of realization where we have started to feel adding Dota to TL was a mistake. Not because the game isn't worth it, but because TL wasn't equipped for multi-gaming. I have to refer to my blog again that explains this more in depth. Dota resonated incredibly well with our community yet it didn't lead to growth. Our coverage was great, our Dota community was great, yet people from the outside still saw us as that StarCraft site. So with what we have learned about this I definitely think it would have been a mistake to add LoL to the frontpage. Based on what we experienced with Dota we don't think that would have lead to a great position in the LoL community. If two games lead to this many issues three games would have been worse. TL basically did nothing but BW for nearly 10 years. We didn't care which game was bigger we just liked what we were doing. When SC2 came out we took a similar approach and especially when SC2 blew up and TL was in a great spot we thought it was good to keep everything on TL. The thought of a standalone Dota site didn't even cross our mind back then. If I had to point out a mistake it would be that we were late to realize standalone sites dedicated to games were a better option to forming and shaping communities than keeping everything on TL. If we had figured that out in the early stages of League's popularity maybe it could have been possible. The short answer is no I don't think it was a mistake not to add LoL. It would have been too much for TL to handle and additionally in that period there was a lot of fear and dislike among TL SC2 fans. However we have made mistakes such as not thinking about standalone sites in the earlier stages of LoL's popularity. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
On May 21 2014 02:12 xes wrote: To follow up on adding other games into streams cross-site, has there been consideration for cross-site community as well? Most of the subforums under the "Community" category are game agnostic and it would make for more streamlined TL engagement to not have to go to separate sites. For example, the Twitch/Youtube deal discussion is posted three times: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/450721-youtube-to-acquire-twitch-for-1bn http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/hearthstone/2687-youtube-to-acquire-twitch-for-1bn http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/general/3289-youtube-to-acquire-twitch Was this a conscious decision to split the community into sections lead by more recognizable members of the subcommunity? Also why does LiquidDota have so much better CSS/Javascript swag than the main TL site? It was definitely a conscious decision to split the games into separate communities. You can read more about that here. LiquidDota was created only recently so everything is up to date according to our latest thoughts and preferences. We're working out the bugs there currently and over time hope to take a good look at TL to see which things can be used here as well. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35144 Posts
Hey! Just got into Floccesy town and boy so much has happened! I guess I should start with my first battle, since I left it out before. At first I wanted to kick myself when Heung-soo brought out his Snivy. How could I have forgotten and picked into a weak match up!? I'll have to find something to train that will be strong against it. That's fire, right? Anyway, I decided to go all out, hoping to put him on the back foot. Despite early resistance, the Snivy just stared back at us for most of the fight and I'm not really sure what's going on. When Yuwott got in the final blow, Bianca called out that it was a critical hit. What a finish! I was shown around the pokemart, given pokeballs(enough to finish off a team!), new shoes to replace the ones I ran the soles off at school, and lastly a potion before I was on my way to route 19. I caught a Purrloin(Purrple) and a Patrat(Praelle)! I think I may be allergic to cat pokemon, so I don't know if I'm going to use it. I searched around some more, but that's all I found. Anyway, I can barely keep my eyes open so I'm gonna stop typing now. Til next time! (If he asks questions, you can answer them.) | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
Everyone who has played StarCraft has at some point in their lives made a "LoL is easy" joke but every time I'm asked seriously about this topic I always criticize the SC fans and players who hate on another game that people enjoy. Simply because I personally don't play a game does not mean I hate it or don't respect it or the scene it has created. Also, it may go without saying but I would love nothing more than to have a TL LoL site that is successful and great. However, after long discussion and a lot of thought about it, we've decided we can't do it right now. A lot factors go into this decision and a lot of them are outside our control, but in summary, considering these factors, we do not feel we have the capability to pull off a standalone TL LoL site the way we want to, with the impact and success we would like. Does anyone actually believe that despite publicly stating that nobody on TL staff actively or irrationally hates on LoL that we'd just secretly spite-kill a TL LoL site if we had the capability of doing one? Who wouldn't want a successful standalone LoL site? Do you really believe we hate LoL so much that we'd give up ad money and traffic and success and a potentially great community? It's a bit ridiculous right? | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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caelym
United States6421 Posts
On May 21 2014 02:37 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: It was definitely a conscious decision to split the games into separate communities. You can read more about that here. LiquidDota was created only recently so everything is up to date according to our latest thoughts and preferences. We're working out the bugs there currently and over time hope to take a good look at TL to see which things can be used here as well. I've always felt the cross contamination of different games was an attractive quality of TL. Being able to discuss General forum topics with fans of other games made it feel like I was part of a bigger community. | ||
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