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TSL 9 - Week 2
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[TSL 9] - Week 2
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
CSS: FO-nTTaX Awesomeness: Panda Banner: Team Liquid | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Poopi
France12877 Posts
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
On August 05 2022 20:27 Poopi wrote: Kinda one sided, I hope to see Clem win at least a game though To be fair Serral was just ahead after the hellbat attack and didn't give up his advantage. At the same time, Clem going for hellbat builds is telling about how he feels going up against Serral. Edit: NVM Clem just looks sort of lost, he's left marines with medivacs unattended twice now | ||
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Creager
Germany1894 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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VladSlymor
80 Posts
On August 05 2022 20:44 tigera6 wrote: Clem playing without a direction, just moving unit, fight, run away, run back to fight, run away again. Not in game 2, plan was clearly to turtle after the lack of damage in mid-game, but Serral was relentless and - as said above - nydus is really stupid in those scenarios, taxing way too much attention to the defender | ||
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stilt
France2749 Posts
And he missed a few pick ups. He wasn't in form overall. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
Excited for the Gumi vs Serral rematch. | ||
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Creager
Germany1894 Posts
On August 05 2022 21:10 Waxangel wrote: random WoL 1/1/1 steps out of a time warp into 2022 My thoughts exactly. | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On August 05 2022 20:45 VladSlymor wrote: Not in game 2, plan was clearly to turtle after the lack of damage in mid-game, but Serral was relentless and - as said above - nydus is really stupid in those scenarios, taxing way too much attention to the defender He didnt plan to turtle until he lost 20 units to bane hit without combat shield at 9-minute. I think the handling of the Nydus was somewhat okay but he never get to fully set up the defensive position, a couple time his tanks werent seiged and die for free. | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1106 Posts
On August 05 2022 20:43 Waxangel wrote: Damn, Serral has really flipped this relationship from what it was a year ago. None of the recent matches against Clem have felt particularly close. b/c Clem is predictable and plays the same mass marine pick-up tricks every game | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
On August 05 2022 21:19 SHODAN wrote: b/c Clem is predictable and plays the same mass marine pick-up tricks every game seems like a very uncharitable way to describe it. I mean, is Serral just doing ling-bane a-move tricks?  | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On August 05 2022 21:33 Waxangel wrote: seems like a very uncharitable way to describe it. I mean, is Serral just doing ling-bane a-move tricks? Ling/bane A-move doesn't count as a trick | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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stilt
France2749 Posts
His refusal to transition to BL with 4k/3k in the bank is pretty bad with the army comp astrea was playing. That's the sort of game serral would never lose. | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On August 05 2022 21:47 Elentos wrote: Maybe it's time Reynor starts practicing Zerg more than Protoss again MAybe he should practice his PvP instead of PvZ | ||
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Creager
Germany1894 Posts
On August 05 2022 21:47 stilt wrote: I am not very hyped by reynor's trip in korea considering his terrible zvp. His refusal to transition to BL with 4k/3k in the bank is pretty bad with the army comp astrea was playing. That's the sort of game serral would never lose. Hey, he's still young, he can learn | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1106 Posts
On August 05 2022 21:33 Waxangel wrote: seems like a very uncharitable way to describe it. I mean, is Serral just doing ling-bane a-move tricks? Clem never opens BC or mass hellion, never goes mech, never commits to a heavy turtle play, and I don't see him trying early marauder pushes either, not even in a bo7. it's the same mass marine timing attacks every game. you never have to worry about building a roach warren or preparing for something crazy. this prediactability is what makes it so comfortable for Serral to mass drones and banelings, a-move and win | ||
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Creager
Germany1894 Posts
On August 05 2022 22:01 Waxangel wrote: Astrea should have known u never go full Has 200 IQ play by Reynor, realized Astrea warped in DTs so figured he will never have detection for Lurkers himself. | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On August 05 2022 22:04 Creager wrote: 200 IQ play by Reynor, realized Astrea warped in DTs so figured he will never have detection for Lurkers himself. Astrea just did a poor job conserving his oracle energy (and oracles for that matter). He was chasing units around with pulsar beam active even after seeing the first lurkers. | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1106 Posts
On August 05 2022 22:17 Elentos wrote: I don't think Waterfall is a good map for Protoss against Zerg, at least not better than the maps Astrea veto'd. Kinda weird. Waterfall is a zerg favored map overall. it's not a good map for terran vs zerg either, which was very unexpected for me. most people took one look at it and said yep, terran map. definitely veto that shit vZ | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Moonerz
United States445 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On August 05 2022 23:23 tigera6 wrote: After seeing how amazing herO play in the GSL final, I dont understand why the hell the other Protoss played such a terrible PvT series today. "Just play like herO" is not actually a workable concept for most of the playerbase. | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On August 05 2022 23:24 Elentos wrote: "Just play like herO" is not actually a workable concept for most of the playerbase. Yeah, but there is a big difference between that and die to 2 base Terran push. Zoun and Creator look like some EU Protoss that just fold to a Terran push. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
On August 05 2022 23:44 Vindicare605 wrote: Lambo is continuing his best play I've ever seen from him, continuing from Homestory recently. I would have expected him to fold in this sort of game by now. He's playing very well. Lambo is inconsistent but I think he's shown us more than enough in the last year to prove he's a RO4+ player when he's playing at 100% | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On August 05 2022 23:56 Waxangel wrote: Lambo is inconsistent but I think he's shown us more than enough in the last year to prove he's a RO4+ player when he's playing at 100% Even for EU regionals Ro4 for Lambo is just a maybe | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On August 06 2022 00:30 Waxangel wrote: Maru just gonna play his cyclone exp builds from GSL huh? You'd think that would be a safe build but it really doesn't look like it is. | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On August 06 2022 00:33 Elentos wrote: You'd think that would be a safe build but it really doesn't look like it is. I guess if it's broken, just do it again and hope that the opponent is not as good? | ||
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Poopi
France12877 Posts
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tilhorizon
Germany191 Posts
"showtime needs a break out performance , showtime hasnt won anything so far" showtime has won many things for example a wcs title vs nerchio in a epic bo5 if the casters dont know history and are to lazy to check it up than they should not talk about it | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On August 06 2022 00:43 tilhorizon wrote: what are these young casters saying "showtime needs a break out performance , showtime hasnt won anything so far" showtime has won many things for example a wcs title vs nerchio in a epic bo5 if the casters dont know history and are to lazy to check it up than they should not talk about it Very true, showtime stans unite! Send some angry emails at whoever hired these young, inexperienced casters who participate in revisionist history! | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
On August 06 2022 00:53 The_Red_Viper wrote: Very true, showtime stans unite! Send some angry emails at whoever hired these young, inexperienced casters who participate in revisionist history! Maybe he's a radical Serralist who doesn't recognize history before 2018 | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:00 Waxangel wrote: What's even the correct theory for Protoss here? Sloooowly get Tempest value and win in 40 minutes? Showtime's bank makes Zerg players jealous. I think he could trade more and disregard efficiency for a while. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:03 Elentos wrote: Showtime's bank makes Zerg players jealous. I think he could trade more and disregard efficiency for a while. Unlike Zerg, Protoss actually can play for cost efficiency, too. | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:04 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Unlike Zerg, Protoss actually can play for cost efficiency, too. True, but unless you really mess up terribly trading would cut down a lot of time from this game by throwing some more money at the problem. Without risking a throw. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8240 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:08 Elentos wrote: Showtime has 20k resources banked up and is too cheap to upgrade Tectonic Destabilizers He's missing a lot of upgrades he should have, honestly. | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:10 Fanatic-Templar wrote: He's missing a lot of upgrades he should have, honestly. He also has access to gasses but doesn't mine from them? | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8240 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8240 Posts
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Poopi
France12877 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:12 Vindicare605 wrote: Maru really hates using Battlecruisers at this point in the game, but it's honestly the best thing he could do right now. Abuse Tempest mobility by just porting directly onto them. Hard disagree here, BCs trade horribly against Tempests and Protoss can anticipate BC harass movement. there's a reason Maru doesn't do it | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:21 Charoisaur wrote: Hard disagree here, BCs trade horribly against Tempests and Protoss can anticipate BC harass movement. there's a reason Maru doesn't do it Hasn't Maru won these kinds of late games all the time (like how hes playing now)? Thought he was pretty much unbreakable pretty late game TvP and this is consequently a very impressive showing from ShowTime. Could be wrong. | ||
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Poopi
France12877 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:20 Vindicare605 wrote: I'm not just fucking theorycrafting here, if you want to beat Protoss in those kind of split map situations, then you want Battlecruisers. Protoss doesn't have a good answer for them and they are so insanely cost effective when they can use their Yamato in a hit and run raid. Spirit destroyed Neeb on Blackburn split map scenario with battlecruiser, so I kinda trust you. But I am not sure Maru had the setup to go for them at this point / space for buildings was lacking on this map. I doubt he has encountered as good of a defensive protoss as ShoWTimE in KR, so that's why he usually won with this gameplay in split map scenarios | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:21 Charoisaur wrote: Hard disagree here, BCs trade horribly against Tempests and Protoss can anticipate BC harass movement. there's a reason Maru doesn't do it No they don't. Head to head Battlecruisers wreck Tempests, Tempests can only out trade BCs when they are able to poke at them, when you have BCs on top of Tempests they win. Anyway the point isn't to fight Tempests with BCs, the point is to use them to hit outlying bases and then force additional anti-air out of the Protoss which your Bio can then kill in a head to head fight. Tempests can't catch BCs that are attacking on their own, and playing around Recall is super easy. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:30 Vindicare605 wrote: No they don't. Head to head Battlecruisers wreck Tempests, Tempests can only out trade BCs when they are able to poke at them, when you have BCs on top of Tempests they win. Anyway the point isn't to fight Tempests with BCs, the point is to use them to hit outlying bases and then force additional anti-air out of the Protoss which your Bio can then kill in a head to head fight. Tempests can't catch BCs that are attacking on their own, and playing around Recall is super easy. Yeah but no Protoss lets his Tempests just fight the BCs head on. You can't jump on Tempests if they are supported by Voidray Stalker Battery as Protoss players learned to do. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
I know TL doesn't want to talk about how obvious it was that they are having issues with EU vs KR but it really is obvious. | ||
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FuRong
New Zealand3089 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8240 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
WP Showtime | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:38 Elentos wrote: Showtime played so much better this game than before it's almost uncanny. He always had ocassionally this game where he suddenly looked like the best macro Protoss in the world | ||
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Poopi
France12877 Posts
Hopefully Maru comes out ahead in the lower bracket | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:35 Waxangel wrote: the lowkey funniest part of Maru loss would be Solar randomly getting punished with another match against Maru in the lower bracket And Ragnarok - the two biggest punching bags for Maru | ||
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Poopi
France12877 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:39 Vindicare605 wrote: That looked absolutely horrendous. Obvious latency issues here from both players, explains why Protoss was so reliant on Collosus and Maru on tanks. Problem is, Siege Tanks are shit in late game vs Protoss and Disruptors and Collosus are not. I know TL doesn't want to talk about how obvious it was that they are having issues with EU vs KR but it really is obvious. Well it's not as bad as the first WoL TSL (the one Thorzain won) in which mvp was playing absolutely horrendous (was it even NA server?) because of ping + not being used to it, losing vs Adelscott of all players. But indeed, looking at this series I would say it was ShoWTimE's server in g1 and g3 and Maru on g2, but either way it's laggy even when it's "your" server since it's probably NA central or NA west | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:38 darklycid wrote: Maru needs to work on his openers against hero and here vs showtime he lost so hard on the early game alone. Maru keep making the same Widow Mine drop again and again is just sad to watch at time. Those mines drop are like completely predictable and so easy to defend unless the opponent mess up big time. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:39 Vindicare605 wrote: That looked absolutely horrendous. Obvious latency issues here from both players, explains why Protoss was so reliant on Collosus and Maru on tanks. Problem is, Siege Tanks are shit in late game vs Protoss and Disruptors and Collosus are not. I know TL doesn't want to talk about how obvious it was that they are having issues with EU vs KR but it really is obvious. How much latency does Maru have to lose those Medivacs? Five seconds? | ||
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stilt
France2749 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:43 Poopi wrote: Well it's not as bad as the first WoL TSL (the one Thorzain won) in which mvp was playing absolutely horrendous (was it even NA server?) because of ping + not being used to it, losing vs Adelscott of all players. But indeed, looking at this series I would say it was ShoWTimE's server in g1 and g3 and Maru on g2, but either way it's laggy even when it's "your" server since it's probably NA central or NA west Come on, adelscott was playing out of this mind with his mass gateway style, I screamed so much my dog got afraid lol Nestea vs goody was funnier | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:44 tigera6 wrote: Maru keep making the same Widow Mine drop again and again is just sad to watch at time. Those mines drop are like completely predictable and so easy to defend unless the opponent mess up big time. Yeah, he seems kinda lost in TvP at the moment sadly | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:38 darklycid wrote: Maru needs to work on his openers against hero and here vs showtime he lost so hard on the early game alone. It's the hallmark of Dark and Maru though. Get yourself behind with garbage openers then claw your way back into the game. | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:44 Fanatic-Templar wrote: How much latency does Maru have to lose those Medivacs? Five seconds? More like he was falling asleep or something, or a cat jumped on his keyboard. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:44 Fanatic-Templar wrote: How much latency does Maru have to lose those Medivacs? Five seconds? Which ones, do you really want to go back and cherry pick every moment from the game about where lag was maybe a factor and where it wasn't? Because it was all over the place in every fight. The fact the micro was so outrageously sloppy from both of them makes it incredibly obvious there was a lot of lag. The difference though is that in PvT, it's on the Terran to execute the high APM micro in order to have a chance vs Protoss ground armies. And Maru was taking tons of incremental damage in every engagement that offline he probably wouldn't have. Just one more reason Maru shouldn't have been dragging those games out to late game in the first place though. I don't know why he's being so stubborn in thinking that this is the best way to be playing PvT in this meta. I don't know how much evidence he needs to have to see that it isn't. | ||
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angry_maia
314 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8240 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:44 tigera6 wrote: Maru keep making the same Widow Mine drop again and again is just sad to watch at time. Those mines drop are like completely predictable and so easy to defend unless the opponent mess up big time. What’s a better opener? Marine Tank is all I can think of. 3 Rax is easily defendable in these important games. | ||
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
5:45:40 on the video. | ||
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Poopi
France12877 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:45 stilt wrote: Come on, adelscott was playing out of this mind with his mass gateway style, I screamed so much my dog got afraid lol Nestea vs goody was funnier I don't remember the mid game at all, just mvp losing his reaper to like zealot by not kiting successfully and stuff :o Pretty sure some KR players adapted better to the latency back then though, MC didn't seem to have as much issues for example. Thorzain even got Thors nerf with that tournament iirc? | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:57 Poopi wrote: I don't remember the mid game at all, just mvp losing his reaper to like zealot by not kiting successfully and stuff :o Pretty sure some KR players adapted better to the latency back then though, MC didn't seem to have as much issues for example. Thorzain even got Thors nerf with that tournament iirc? Yea he did, because Blizzard didn't realize in their own dumb game design that spell damage pierced Hardened Shields. They had specifically designed the Immortal in WoL to hard counter everything that Terran had from the factory, so to see Thors owning them like that was unacceptable. So it was a bandaid fix to make up for their own stupid game design. The Thor was a mess of a unit (still is) that had gone a complete overhaul from its original design and they hadn't figured out all of the details of it by the time Thorzain stumbled on that interaction. | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On August 06 2022 01:52 geokilla wrote: What’s a better opener? Marine Tank is all I can think of. 3 Rax is easily defendable in these important games. Helion drop/runby, early Single tank push, double cloak banshee might work as well. To be clear, I dont mind the mine drop opening if its being mixed, but Maru has consistently used it forever in TvP so his opponent knew where to set up the Stalker-Oracle before it came over. On August 06 2022 01:53 dysenterymd wrote: Rough bracket for Maru, Ragnarok then probably Solar then Reynor/herO. Wonder if this will be the start of a magical lower bracket run. Two good things from that: he wont be playing cross-server, and he wont be playing as late. I seriously think he was falling asleep at game 3 or something. Edit: 3rd thing is he wont be playing any Protoss soon other than herO (or Reynor offracing) | ||
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Gescom
Canada3397 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On August 06 2022 02:46 Elentos wrote: So will TIME play top 12 online or be forced to forfeit? Or does TSL cover flight costs that exceed the prize money for 2nd place? Clearly the plan is to DQ him like O'Gaming did. | ||
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SeaGnome
United States32 Posts
On August 06 2022 02:46 Elentos wrote: So will TIME play top 12 online or be forced to forfeit? Or does TSL cover flight costs that exceed the prize money for 2nd place? We're working with TIME and KaiZi Gaming to go through all the proper channels so he can make it to Utrecht, with Team Liquid covering the travel expenses. If it's unfortunately not possible, we will allow TIME to play online. | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On August 06 2022 03:07 SeaGnome wrote: We're working with TIME and KaiZi Gaming to go through all the proper channels so he can make it to Utrecht, with Team Liquid covering the travel expenses. If it's unfortunately not possible, we will allow TIME to play online. Also, how does the schedule of the offline tournament work against GSL schedule? Would GSL stop the week the players traveling for TSL? | ||
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SeaGnome
United States32 Posts
On August 06 2022 03:13 tigera6 wrote: Also, how does the schedule of the offline tournament work against GSL schedule? Would GSL stop the week the players traveling for TSL? We're coordinating with GSL to try to minimize the effect it'll have on any of the players that are playing in both tournaments. We're hoping that it should only cause minor rescheduling, but they're aware of our schedule and have been fantastic to work with to minimize scheduling overlaps. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Poopi
France12877 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On August 06 2022 20:35 Poopi wrote: How do players micro in such situations? Even with intel i7 7700k (not OC’d though) my fps is kinda bad if the zerg goes for that many lings, even when they are off screen. Most players play on shitty settings to maximize performance (& visibility). | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On August 06 2022 20:39 Elentos wrote: Most players play on shitty settings to maximize performance (& visibility). Also, it literally is (or was, for the part-time players now) their job, so I assume their PC can play SC2 in decent conditions. Not like the game has changed in the past 5 years or so, performance-wise. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Poopi
France12877 Posts
One more match to go | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
Maru also completely throw 4-5 FULL Medivacs away by not looking at the army. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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M2
Bulgaria4116 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On August 06 2022 22:38 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Unexpected result, given how well Creator held Byun's early attack. He was not teching up enough in the later fight in the game, I expected him to throw down 2 more Robo after he got the 4th and start making Disruptor non-stop, and it seems like he didnt make enough Gateway neither. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
It's incredible! It's revolutionary! It's remarkable! | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On August 06 2022 23:11 Vindicare605 wrote: This is wild. HOW MANY years did it take for Protoss to FINALLY start making static defenses on their outlying expansions? It's incredible! It's revolutionary! It's remarkable! ? | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
On August 06 2022 23:25 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Those are the Storms I love to see! Indeed "fanatic templar" | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
For 24 years now :D. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
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Captain Peabody
United States3110 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Captain Peabody
United States3110 Posts
Here, though, is another wrinkle to that story from an oldster (me) who was very actively involved during the early phases of SC2 Pre-Beta. In that pre-beta phase, in early released videos, screenshots, and on the original website, SC2 Archons did have legs. This was one of a few things, though, that created an absolutely feverish negative response from people complaining that Blizzard was ruining the visuals of SC and making the WC3-ish. People yelled and screamed that Archons in SC1 didn't have legs and Archons shouldn't have legs, that they looked silly, etc, etc. And this was one of a number of visual things (of which there were a fair many: the way SC2 looks was actually very shaped by early visual feedback) that Blizzard did actually change, explicitly in response to that feedback. Even so, though, some of the (fair number, actually, of) artists who worked on both SC1 and SC2 eventually pointed out that Archons had always been intended to have legs, and were able to point to concept art and the actual 3D model used in SC1 as proof. This was confirmed well before SC: Remastered, but that obviously made it visible in a way it had never been before. So there: the reason SC2 Archons don't have legs is because BW fans (wrongly) hadn't noticed that they had had legs in SC1 and attacked the legged archons SC2 as a stupid change from BW. Strange world. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On August 07 2022 01:04 Captain Peabody wrote: Even so, though, some of the (fair number, actually, of) artists who worked on both SC1 and SC2 eventually pointed out that Archons had always been intended to have legs, and were able to point to concept art and the actual 3D model used in SC1 as proof. This was confirmed well before SC: Remastered, but that obviously made it visible in a way it had never been before. Yeah, if you look at the Archon in the SC manual, it's practically unrecognisable. I do have to side with not showing their legs though. Not so much with switching the scorpion-tail Sentries for the snowglobes. | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Captain Peabody
United States3110 Posts
On August 07 2022 01:23 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Yeah, if you look at the Archon in the SC manual, it's practically unrecognisable. I do have to side with not showing their legs though. Not so much with switching the scorpion-tail Sentries for the snowglobes. Yeah, I also miss the scorpion-tail Sentries. I imagine they did it in part for easy-visual-read reasons, but the snow-globe just still looks kinda cheap to me and makes it have less of a distinctive or interesting silhouette imo. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
On August 07 2022 01:25 Elentos wrote: Shoutout to the fact that Team Liquid's best result in TSL for SC2 is still uThermal getting top 6 in TSL 5. Proof that StarCraft II is very fair and unbiased; no Alpha X player has ever placed top four in a King of Battles either Only KeSPA would be so uncouth as to have SKT win the SK Proleague | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On August 07 2022 01:36 Waxangel wrote: Proof that StarCraft II is very fair and unbiased; no Alpha X player has ever placed top four in a King of Battles either Only KeSPA would be so uncouth as to have SKT win the SK Proleague Let's not forget Apollo rigging brackets for foreigners, shall we? | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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BeoMulf
United States92 Posts
On August 07 2022 02:08 Vindicare605 wrote: Special continues to be a better TvT player than Clem. And yet Clem was 9-1 in series v Special since 2021.... | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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BeoMulf
United States92 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On August 07 2022 02:22 BeoMulf wrote: And yet Clem was 9-1 in series v Special since 2021.... As a caster, you have to learn to ignore facts that disrupt your narrative. Just like a TL writer or shitposter would. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
Why did you write a synonym after "or"? | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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Creager
Germany1894 Posts
On August 07 2022 02:22 BeoMulf wrote: And yet Clem was 9-1 in series v Special since 2021.... How you are a professional caster and only have 38 posts on your TL account is beyond me - pure blasphemy!!! | ||
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BeoMulf
United States92 Posts
On August 07 2022 05:27 Creager wrote: How you are a professional caster and only have 38 posts on your TL account is beyond me - pure blasphemy!!! It's a moral failing of mine. I've always been more of a lurker than a poster on TL :D | ||
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Poopi
France12877 Posts
Tomorrow should be hype too | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On August 07 2022 02:22 BeoMulf wrote: And yet Clem was 9-1 in series v Special since 2021.... I could ammend this to say that Special is the better TvT player, strategically than Clem is. Clem still has him beat mechanically seemingly 1.5x over. That's enough a lot of the time. Even when Clem wins, it's pretty much just with brute force. Either way, Special kicked his butt in that series. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On August 07 2022 06:17 Poopi wrote: Kinda sad for Clem but not entirely surprising in a bo3, he struggled against SpeCial in DH: Valencia already. Tomorrow should be hype too Clem can be on same level as Reynor/Serral but even at his best he's always dropped many games - bo3 format hurts him way more than Serral/Reynor. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1710 Posts
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Poopi
France12877 Posts
Hopefully Maru defeats Solar, afaik he has only this match to win to secure his offline spot. TIME vs Lambo should be interesting given the terran's recent performances in EPT EU, I think he will find a way to win even though the meta doesn't necessarily suit him (according to Big Gabe, being aggressive in TvZ doesn't really pay off on this map pool) edit: if you were not already hyped by Reynor vs herO... remember that it's without ping since Reynor is in Korea | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On August 07 2022 19:12 Poopi wrote: Just looking at the line-up for today and I am already hyped! Hopefully Maru defeats Solar, afaik he has only this match to win to secure his offline spot. TIME vs Lambo should be interesting given the terran's recent performances in EPT EU, I think he will find a way to win even though the meta doesn't necessarily suit him (according to Big Gabe, being aggressive in TvZ doesn't really pay off on this map pool) edit: if you were not already hyped by Reynor vs herO... remember that it's without ping since Reynor is in Korea Seeing how Reynor was struggling with Creator earlier today in Open Cup, I think herO will send him to the Lower Bracket. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
On August 07 2022 19:56 tigera6 wrote: Seeing how Reynor was struggling with Creator earlier today in Open Cup, I think herO will send him to the Lower Bracket. he seemed a bit unconfident in his interview yesterday saying he didn't want to face herO quite yet, so not sure how it would go | ||
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
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Poopi
France12877 Posts
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On August 07 2022 20:28 dysenterymd wrote: Hmm zero tank mech, interesting build... Was Gumi just expecting Serral to lean hardcore into the longer game? Probably didn't expect a hard swap from ling/muta into a roach/ravager/corruptor "all-in" | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Poopi
France12877 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On August 07 2022 20:53 Elentos wrote: TvZ is the worst matchup Succesfully flipped with pvz. | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On August 07 2022 20:59 Argonauta wrote: the serral praising game is top obnoxious here It's the 5th year of their lord, time to get used to it. | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
Problematically it was already not that good before and it's not gotten a single bit better after the patch that allowed herO to save PvZ | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
On August 07 2022 21:02 Elentos wrote: It's the 5th year of their lord, time to get used to it. I know I know, I guess there were too many tournaments lately where serial got eliminated early on I forgot how it actually is . | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On August 07 2022 21:27 Elentos wrote: herO just showed up with units when Reynor had no units yet. herO decided waiting for glaives is a low test strat. | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Poopi
France12877 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On August 07 2022 21:38 Poopi wrote: This build seemed terribly bad wow I mean it's there to counter zergs going pure ling expecting stalkers but the execution was pretty shit this time. | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On August 07 2022 21:42 Argonauta wrote: I agree with Steadfast this time., oracles were meant to pull queens apart, losing them and facing a clump of queens killed all momentum Yeah losing both oracles for essentially free was objectively bad from herO. So was letting Reynor into his natural when he still had units at the wall. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On August 07 2022 21:53 Waxangel wrote: It's great how every Has strategy becomes meta once a better player figures out how to do it "What the King dreams, the Hand builds." | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
Also Reynor: Uses Lurkers to crush herO in a brutal timing. | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
On August 07 2022 21:56 Vindicare605 wrote: Reynor: "I don't like using Lurkers." Also Reynor: Uses Lurkers to crush herO in a brutal timing. Contextually, he said he didn't like using Lurkers after he lost a game against Astrea where he had control on a huge map, where he shoulda been attacking with a more mobile comp. | ||
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yepjan
20 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On August 07 2022 21:58 darklycid wrote: herO and maru are still in post gsl finals blues let them be. Looks like they'll be flying to the Netherlands to play a rematch. Seems a bit overkill, but alright. | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On August 07 2022 22:01 yepjan wrote: korea elitist malding with no korean in the upper bracket You mean after the DH Valencia where top 4 are all KR? I think those guys are doing fine. | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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yepjan
20 Posts
On August 07 2022 22:05 tigera6 wrote: You mean after the DH Valencia where top 4 are all KR? I think those guys are doing fine. but this is not dh valencia. spotted the malding one | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On August 07 2022 22:06 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Uh-oh, we've got a Zerg in the finals already, even with Rogue/Dark not participating.... "GSL was an accident that won't repeat any time soon" - Zerg players I think you could pretty safely put a Zerg icon next to every international event 1st place on Liquipedia already and end up being right | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
On August 07 2022 22:05 Elentos wrote: Tournaments are better when they don't have an interview after every match. excessive downtime is bad, interviews are always good | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On August 07 2022 22:11 Waxangel wrote: excessive downtime is bad, interviews are always good Interviewing the same 4 players over and over again is not interesting. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
On August 07 2022 22:12 Elentos wrote: Interviewing the same 4 players over and over again is not interesting. dispassionate fans like you killed SC2, not blizzard | ||
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On August 07 2022 22:33 Elentos wrote: TvZ is past its prime The lack of a dynamic early game is not great to watch, and that forcing all the game go into lategame where "Ghost is OP". | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
We could also just convert to competitive WarCraft 2. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
Twitch chat: Ghosts unfair! Never change Twitch chat. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On August 07 2022 22:49 Waxangel wrote: I don't get these 6 marine 1 mine drop builds but I guess since Maru does them they must be good The logical theory would be to counter some kind of meta greedy build that is on the Asian ladders. The drop hits at a timing where Zerg has nothing. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On August 07 2022 22:53 Argonauta wrote: those snipes by Time were marvelous And online, no less. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
Also I want "170" memes in twitch chat | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
On August 07 2022 23:04 tigera6 wrote: Time TvZ look better than Clem at the moment, not gonna lie. not on a match to match basis... but at his peak yes | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
EDIT: So was this what he wanted? | ||
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stilt
France2749 Posts
On August 07 2022 22:40 Vindicare605 wrote: Lambo charges face first into sieged tanks, widow mines, deployed Liberators and a Planetary. Twitch chat: Ghosts unfair! Never change Twitch chat. Zerg are generally forced to this kind of trade in this ghost meta. | ||
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Poopi
France12877 Posts
On August 07 2022 22:33 Elentos wrote: TvZ is past its prime We should revert banelings to 2016 era | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On August 07 2022 23:12 stilt wrote: Zerg are generally forced to this kind of trade in this ghost meta. The META dictates I must face tank a Planetary with Lurkers. I MUST do it! /s | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On August 07 2022 23:19 Waxangel wrote: ppl complain about ghosts but Thors are just such boring statballs The worst. It's the only way I beat better Zergs than me is by massing them. They're disgusting units. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On August 07 2022 23:19 Waxangel wrote: ppl complain about ghosts but Thors are just such boring/efficient statballs I hate them. I've always hated them. I don't even like how they work with the lore flavour of Terran. | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On August 07 2022 23:23 Fanatic-Templar wrote: I hate them. I've always hated them. I don't even like how they work with the lore flavour of Terran. Just replace them with Goliath would be great then :D | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On August 07 2022 23:19 Waxangel wrote: ppl complain about ghosts but Thors are just such boring/efficient statballs At ladder level I hate them waaaay more as Zerg - at least the Terran opponent massing ghosts has to do stuff to win the fight ;P I do wonder what sort of changes could be made to some combo of creep, ghosts, thors and broods to try change the pace of this MU a bit. Something to keep players off lategame armies and turtling a bit more. Terran feels forced into a lot and as a Zerg facing and watching it is bad for blood pressure. EDIT: Exciting to see how well Time is playing tho. | ||
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stilt
France2749 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On August 07 2022 23:23 Fanatic-Templar wrote: I hate them. I've always hated them. I don't even like how they work with the lore flavour of Terran. They don't. Thors were originally designed to be hero units for Terran, along with the Queen for Zerg and Mothership for Protoss. It was one of David Kim's teams original ideas that was scrapped in alpha for Wings of Liberty. They thought the Thor model was too cool to get rid of so they just turned it into a big bulky Goliath that wasn't designed properly to do what the Goliath was really good at which was GtA anti-air. Overtime the design of the Thor was adjusted to resemble that role more and more, till the point that we have the Thor that we have today. It's a relic of the "principle of cool" that drove a lot of WoL's bad game design that they were in love with too much to get rid of, a lot like Warp Gate. Skip to 7:34 that's what the original design looked like. If you've ever played the WoL campaign you'll recognize that model design as the Odin from the campaign. | ||
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stilt
France2749 Posts
On August 07 2022 23:16 Vindicare605 wrote: The META dictates I must face tank a Planetary with Lurkers. I MUST do it! /s The meta dictates the terran growth must be delayed even at the cost at cost inefficient trade, sometimes it can go really bad, sorry if you don't get it. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On August 07 2022 23:25 tigera6 wrote: Just replace them with Goliath would be great then :D Even Goliaths I'm not super fond of, original Terran's kinda scrappy aesthetic doesn't feel like it works great with bipedal mechs, but the Thor and Odin take it to ridiculous extremes. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On August 07 2022 23:30 stilt wrote: The meta dictates the terran growth must be delayed even at the cost at cost inefficient trade, sometimes it can go really bad, sorry if you don't get it. It's you that's not understanding what I am making fun of. | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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stilt
France2749 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
EDIT: The team colours on the Shield Batteries is pretty awful. | ||
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stilt
France2749 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On August 08 2022 00:02 Elentos wrote: Maru's 2 modes are 2 base all-in and 40 minute late game turtling What happened to Proxy Rax? | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
That could be the opener for either of those things | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On August 08 2022 00:05 Elentos wrote: That could be the opener for either of those things Fair. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
he's been on a pretty bad streak with it lately so maybe he's lost some confidence in it. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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stilt
France2749 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
On August 08 2022 00:20 Argonauta wrote: really cool first map, I though once lurkers hit the field Solar will be able to turn the tide, but maru managed to squeeze in some ghosts to counter Not great if you survive to the premier defensive unit in Lurkers but still lose all your expansions D: | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
"Maru, the hatch hater" | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
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Poopi
France12877 Posts
Since everyone is camping like Maru, he is back to fast tempo TvZ, truly the most fun player to watch at all times | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On August 08 2022 00:36 Elentos wrote: From the makers of "Polt the nexus sniper", we present to you the long awaited sequel "Maru, the hatch hater" I swear I've noticed Maru doing this before. | ||
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Poopi
France12877 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On August 08 2022 00:42 Fanatic-Templar wrote: I swear I've noticed Maru doing this before. Yeah, he did that against Dark in 2020 Super Tournament 1 Final, drop multiple place and crush 5-6 hatches. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On August 08 2022 00:44 tigera6 wrote: Yeah, he did that against Dark in 2020 Super Tournament 1 Final, drop multiple place and crush 5-6 hatches. The one I was thinking of was IEM Katowice 2018. Against.... Solar  . | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
On August 08 2022 00:49 Waxangel wrote: I feel like reflexive Vipers when there's no tanks was a misplay; Infestors would been way more useful, and I feel like even Corruptors woulda somehow been better. I think 1/2 infestors in the edge bases to slowdown marine hatch snipper squads would have been awesome | ||
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On August 08 2022 01:23 darklycid wrote: Feels like Heromarine hasn't been too on top of his game after Valencia so far. Right? Thought he can defeat Byun with the ways he countered Maru before. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On August 08 2022 02:25 dysenterymd wrote: Classic still has a long way to go but this is an encouraging performance. He looked a disaster against herO (that was partly bad build order luck), but Astrea and Byun are good victories. Considering he has another PvP next round I can see him going a little further. herO is easily the best Protoss in the world right now, so that's hardly a real knock on his form at the moment. Yea he's getting back to top shape, but he's on a good pace IMO. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
Just kind of disappointing that if you look across the bracket the 2-0's greatly outnumber the 2-1's. | ||
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ronin_1138
3 Posts
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olimoley
United States742 Posts
On August 09 2022 04:43 ronin_1138 wrote: I will be in the Netherlands around that time. Are the offline matches played in front of a crowd? No, it will be a closed studio with no live audience. | ||
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