On November 28 2020 03:47 Calliope wrote: I would question lurker design, at least on paper. A siege unit that deploys and fires instantly shouldn't really have any counter. Compare with how slow and punishable siege tanks, liberators and brood lords are - units that can pretty much die instantly without dealing any damage whatsoever if you're careless.
I don't think Zerg would mind slower lurkers with longer burrow time if they had double damage, 13 range and a hitscan attack ^^
Lurkers are only strong because they can move in and force damage fast. They'd be entirely useless vs bio tank without that.
On November 28 2020 03:47 Calliope wrote: I would question lurker design, at least on paper. A siege unit that deploys and fires instantly shouldn't really have any counter. Compare with how slow and punishable siege tanks, liberators and brood lords are - units that can pretty much die instantly without dealing any damage whatsoever if you're careless.
Maybe just remove the fast burrow upgrade? I think a small nerf like that would turn it in a cool lategame-dynamic tvz.
this would completely remove the unit from the game. Id rather they added +1 supply to lurker to prevent 20 lurkers on the field.
On November 28 2020 03:50 DarkGamer wrote: Good games between Byun and Reynor so far!
On November 28 2020 03:47 Calliope wrote: I would question lurker design, at least on paper. A siege unit that deploys and fires instantly shouldn't really have any counter. Compare with how slow and punishable siege tanks, liberators and brood lords are - units that can pretty much die instantly without dealing any damage whatsoever if you're careless.
Maybe just remove the fast burrow upgrade? I think a small nerf like that would turn it in a cool lategame-dynamic tvz.
this would completely remove the unit from the game. Id rather they added +1 supply to lurker to prevent 20 lurkers on the field.
On November 28 2020 03:50 DarkGamer wrote: Good games between Byun and Reynor so far!
On November 28 2020 03:47 Calliope wrote: I would question lurker design, at least on paper. A siege unit that deploys and fires instantly shouldn't really have any counter. Compare with how slow and punishable siege tanks, liberators and brood lords are - units that can pretty much die instantly without dealing any damage whatsoever if you're careless.
Maybe just remove the fast burrow upgrade? I think a small nerf like that would turn it in a cool lategame-dynamic tvz.
this would completely remove the unit from the game. Id rather they added +1 supply to lurker to prevent 20 lurkers on the field.
its crazy that the ravager has the same supply cost as a lurker lol
On November 28 2020 03:50 DarkGamer wrote: Good games between Byun and Reynor so far!
On November 28 2020 03:47 Calliope wrote: I would question lurker design, at least on paper. A siege unit that deploys and fires instantly shouldn't really have any counter. Compare with how slow and punishable siege tanks, liberators and brood lords are - units that can pretty much die instantly without dealing any damage whatsoever if you're careless.
Maybe just remove the fast burrow upgrade? I think a small nerf like that would turn it in a cool lategame-dynamic tvz.
this would completely remove the unit from the game. Id rather they added +1 supply to lurker to prevent 20 lurkers on the field.
Why do they need a nerf at all?
Because they are a bit too strong dont you think? Being a siege unit is fine, but chasing bio and sieging upon them is a bit ridic. Also it does so much indirectly too the terran eco forcing 55 scans every minute. Together with the viper the only thing you can do is just engage well and hope for the best. Or avoid them entirely, but then also lose multiple orbitals at the ssame time
On November 28 2020 03:50 DarkGamer wrote: Good games between Byun and Reynor so far!
On November 28 2020 03:47 Calliope wrote: I would question lurker design, at least on paper. A siege unit that deploys and fires instantly shouldn't really have any counter. Compare with how slow and punishable siege tanks, liberators and brood lords are - units that can pretty much die instantly without dealing any damage whatsoever if you're careless.
Maybe just remove the fast burrow upgrade? I think a small nerf like that would turn it in a cool lategame-dynamic tvz.
this would completely remove the unit from the game. Id rather they added +1 supply to lurker to prevent 20 lurkers on the field.
Why do they need a nerf at all?
I don't know ... maybe to try something new and see if it shifts meta and adds some variety to the game?
On November 28 2020 03:50 DarkGamer wrote: Good games between Byun and Reynor so far!
On November 28 2020 03:47 Calliope wrote: I would question lurker design, at least on paper. A siege unit that deploys and fires instantly shouldn't really have any counter. Compare with how slow and punishable siege tanks, liberators and brood lords are - units that can pretty much die instantly without dealing any damage whatsoever if you're careless.
Maybe just remove the fast burrow upgrade? I think a small nerf like that would turn it in a cool lategame-dynamic tvz.
this would completely remove the unit from the game. Id rather they added +1 supply to lurker to prevent 20 lurkers on the field.
I dont think it would remove the unit from the game cuz the long range attack + vipers would make the unit still viable. But the idea of adding +1 supply seems a smaller nerf, what could work too.
On November 28 2020 03:50 DarkGamer wrote: Good games between Byun and Reynor so far!
On November 28 2020 03:47 Calliope wrote: I would question lurker design, at least on paper. A siege unit that deploys and fires instantly shouldn't really have any counter. Compare with how slow and punishable siege tanks, liberators and brood lords are - units that can pretty much die instantly without dealing any damage whatsoever if you're careless.
Maybe just remove the fast burrow upgrade? I think a small nerf like that would turn it in a cool lategame-dynamic tvz.
this would completely remove the unit from the game. Id rather they added +1 supply to lurker to prevent 20 lurkers on the field.
Why do they need a nerf at all?
Because they are a bit too strong dont you think? Being a siege unit is fine, but chasing bio and sieging upon them is a bit ridic. Also it does so much indirectly too the terran eco forcing 55 scans every minute. Together with the viper the only thing you can do is just engage well and hope for the best. Or avoid them entirely, but then also lose multiple orbitals at the ssame time
I don't think they (at least not vs Terran, vs Protoss maybe).
They're outranged by tanks, ghosts can generally get some snipes off and get away (and help vs vipers). A good lib count is also very helpful (and is effective harass for a player investing gas into lurker viper rather than muta / corruptor).
Besides, the game we saw was a bit of a tech mismatch. You're not supposed to be able to fight double upgraded lurker viper with just bio tank. That'd be terrible, one of those armies is double the price of the other (if not more) and takes a long time in game to get to.
On November 28 2020 03:50 DarkGamer wrote: Good games between Byun and Reynor so far!
On November 28 2020 03:47 Calliope wrote: I would question lurker design, at least on paper. A siege unit that deploys and fires instantly shouldn't really have any counter. Compare with how slow and punishable siege tanks, liberators and brood lords are - units that can pretty much die instantly without dealing any damage whatsoever if you're careless.
Maybe just remove the fast burrow upgrade? I think a small nerf like that would turn it in a cool lategame-dynamic tvz.
this would completely remove the unit from the game. Id rather they added +1 supply to lurker to prevent 20 lurkers on the field.
Why do they need a nerf at all?
Because they are a bit too strong dont you think? Being a siege unit is fine, but chasing bio and sieging upon them is a bit ridic. Also it does so much indirectly too the terran eco forcing 55 scans every minute. Together with the viper the only thing you can do is just engage well and hope for the best. Or avoid them entirely, but then also lose multiple orbitals at the ssame time
I don't think they (at least not vs Terran, vs Protoss maybe).
They're outranged by tanks, ghosts can generally get some snipes off and get away (and help vs vipers). A good lib count is also very helpful (and is effective harass for a player investing gas into lurker viper rather than muta / corruptor).
Besides, the game we saw was a bit of a tech mismatch. You're not supposed to be able to fight double upgraded lurker viper with just bio tank. That'd be terrible, one of those armies is double the price of the other (if not more) and takes a long time in game to get to.
I would say protoss can more easily deal with lurkers, the most important part being they have easier detection in the form of revelation and observers that dont hurt their eco. They then also have immortals, chargelots,disruptors and the eventual carrier switch that can render lurkers useless for some time until zerg transitions into air themselves.
We have seen tanks been made against lurkers, but just as libs they get picked off way too easily by abducts. Probably the best think against lurkers is ghosts if you can control them extremely well. But again the biggest problem for terran just is the scan mechanic in dealing with lurkers. 3 lurkers setting up at the 5th base PF, 4 lurkers sieging the 4th and a lurker sneaking in to the natural just forces out tons of scans everythere and then losing orbitals is extremely painful especially as you still somehow need to clear creep and scan in advance. Cant think about mules as well, every bit of energy needs to go into scans
Wat a game, GG. Good chance Byun still wont make it through with Stats in the winner match (stats leads their 2020 h2h 4-0) and then Reynor again in the rematch, but atleast this match delivered.
EPT
