|
On November 30 2020 07:44 Penev wrote:Do we actually have genuine Serral haters though, on this site? I really only see people objecting to the GOAT status thing, not that he isn't a great player. And baiting of course, LOTS of baiting 
I'm honestly not sure. People have definitely been aggressive and hostile towards people praising Serral (and foreigners in general) in the past but it's unclear who or what that hostility stems from.
|
On November 30 2020 07:44 Penev wrote:Do we actually have genuine Serral haters though, on this site? I really only see people objecting to the GOAT status thing, not that he isn't a great player. And baiting of course, LOTS of baiting
Is Serral the best foreigner ever? Yes. Would his career have taken an even bigger nosedive if if wasn't for the good old reliable Protoss punching bags he draws every other tournament? Absolutely. Just look at how he's unable to bring a single WCS EU title home because he doesn't have a Protoss to ride on.
|
On November 30 2020 07:25 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2020 07:22 JJH777 wrote:On November 30 2020 07:20 anachy wrote:
So this open the question again. Is Byun the Goat? A better candidate than Serral at least. Both are nice jokes.
Maybe if we speak of numbers Byun is not in the top. But being goat not about numbers it’s more about play style and feelings.
|
On November 30 2020 07:48 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2020 07:44 Penev wrote:Do we actually have genuine Serral haters though, on this site? I really only see people objecting to the GOAT status thing, not that he isn't a great player. And baiting of course, LOTS of baiting Is Serral the best foreigner ever? Yes. Would his career have taken an even bigger nosedive if if wasn't for the good old reliable Protoss punching bags he draws every other tournament? Absolutely.
I agree with this. Serral is undeniably the best foreigner, but it comes at a time of an extreme zerg dominance that has lasted years. Reynor is a top contender as well, but this dominance just does not seem possible to achieve by foreigners of any other race.
|
Did we have another pointless thread, "Have Korean reaches a rock bottom bla bla bla" again after this?
Why make so serious on DH Masters Series when you can do better in juicy tournaments like Kubo, ASUG, Katowice?
Btw congrats Byun for winning the first 🥇 two months after completing military service.
|
On November 30 2020 08:00 swarminfestor wrote:
Did we have another pointless thread, "Have Korean reaches a rock bottom bla bla bla" again after this?
Why make so serious on DH Masters Series when you can do better in juicy tournaments like Kubo, ASUG, Katowice?
Btw congrats Byun for winning the first 🥇 two months after completing military service.
TL has been built on pointless / random threads lol - it's part of the website lore. I've only been here since SC2, but I still remember the infamous "Elephant in the Room" article in 2011.
|
On November 30 2020 07:54 Calliope wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2020 07:48 Morbidius wrote:On November 30 2020 07:44 Penev wrote:Do we actually have genuine Serral haters though, on this site? I really only see people objecting to the GOAT status thing, not that he isn't a great player. And baiting of course, LOTS of baiting Is Serral the best foreigner ever? Yes. Would his career have taken an even bigger nosedive if if wasn't for the good old reliable Protoss punching bags he draws every other tournament? Absolutely. I agree with this. Serral is undeniably the best foreigner, but it comes at a time of an extreme zerg dominance that has lasted years. Reynor is a top contender as well, but this dominance just does not seem possible to achieve by foreigners of any other race.
This meme needs to die, it's simply false. Serral DID NOT benefit of Zerg being op in order to dominate Sc2 in 2018!
Also, in one ideal world in which Protoss are cold blooded killers Maru gets to win a single Code S and the only tournament Rogue wins in his career is BlizzCon 2017, something tells me Serral is in very good company.
|
On November 30 2020 08:06 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2020 07:54 Calliope wrote:On November 30 2020 07:48 Morbidius wrote:On November 30 2020 07:44 Penev wrote:Do we actually have genuine Serral haters though, on this site? I really only see people objecting to the GOAT status thing, not that he isn't a great player. And baiting of course, LOTS of baiting Is Serral the best foreigner ever? Yes. Would his career have taken an even bigger nosedive if if wasn't for the good old reliable Protoss punching bags he draws every other tournament? Absolutely. I agree with this. Serral is undeniably the best foreigner, but it comes at a time of an extreme zerg dominance that has lasted years. Reynor is a top contender as well, but this dominance just does not seem possible to achieve by foreigners of any other race. Serral DID NOT benefit of Zerg being op in order to dominate Sc2 in 2018!
Yeah sorry, i forgot he played Protoss in 2018.
|
On November 30 2020 08:09 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2020 08:06 Xain0n wrote:On November 30 2020 07:54 Calliope wrote:On November 30 2020 07:48 Morbidius wrote:On November 30 2020 07:44 Penev wrote:Do we actually have genuine Serral haters though, on this site? I really only see people objecting to the GOAT status thing, not that he isn't a great player. And baiting of course, LOTS of baiting Is Serral the best foreigner ever? Yes. Would his career have taken an even bigger nosedive if if wasn't for the good old reliable Protoss punching bags he draws every other tournament? Absolutely. I agree with this. Serral is undeniably the best foreigner, but it comes at a time of an extreme zerg dominance that has lasted years. Reynor is a top contender as well, but this dominance just does not seem possible to achieve by foreigners of any other race. Serral DID NOT benefit of Zerg being op in order to dominate Sc2 in 2018! Yeah sorry, i forgot he played Protoss in 2018.
How many times will I have to say that Serral reigned alone while Zerg weren't even reaching ro4 in Code S and that if you removed him you would have had one Zerg title in WCS, one Stats vs Dark and one Stats vs Rogue final?
Will you ever stop blindly hating? You'd better choose a more fit title for your next thread.
|
On November 30 2020 08:06 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2020 07:54 Calliope wrote:On November 30 2020 07:48 Morbidius wrote:On November 30 2020 07:44 Penev wrote:Do we actually have genuine Serral haters though, on this site? I really only see people objecting to the GOAT status thing, not that he isn't a great player. And baiting of course, LOTS of baiting Is Serral the best foreigner ever? Yes. Would his career have taken an even bigger nosedive if if wasn't for the good old reliable Protoss punching bags he draws every other tournament? Absolutely. I agree with this. Serral is undeniably the best foreigner, but it comes at a time of an extreme zerg dominance that has lasted years. Reynor is a top contender as well, but this dominance just does not seem possible to achieve by foreigners of any other race. This meme needs to die, it's simply false. Serral DID NOT benefit of Zerg being op in order to dominate Sc2 in 2018! Also, in one ideal world in which Protoss are cold blooded killers Maru gets to win a single Code S and the only tournament Rogue wins in his career is BlizzCon 2017, something tells me Serral is in very good company.
It's neither meme nor opinion, it is just results. It's rather the interpretation of them that everyone disagrees on. Zerg had an over 70% win rate in tournaments these past years (and something almost equally lopsided like 40% 2nd place finishers).
I think foreigner bias explains that by saying that he is just much better than everyone else. I think he is a better zerg than everyone else (but now there are two of them, curiously sharing the same race). However, the best player in my mind, is the one who succeeds despite his race. A fruitdealer, bisu, etc kind of story.
|
WOW Byun. Can he still clasify to Katowice?
I couldn't watch the finals, any recommended games?
|
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 30 2020 08:17 Calliope wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2020 08:06 Xain0n wrote:On November 30 2020 07:54 Calliope wrote:On November 30 2020 07:48 Morbidius wrote:On November 30 2020 07:44 Penev wrote:Do we actually have genuine Serral haters though, on this site? I really only see people objecting to the GOAT status thing, not that he isn't a great player. And baiting of course, LOTS of baiting Is Serral the best foreigner ever? Yes. Would his career have taken an even bigger nosedive if if wasn't for the good old reliable Protoss punching bags he draws every other tournament? Absolutely. I agree with this. Serral is undeniably the best foreigner, but it comes at a time of an extreme zerg dominance that has lasted years. Reynor is a top contender as well, but this dominance just does not seem possible to achieve by foreigners of any other race. This meme needs to die, it's simply false. Serral DID NOT benefit of Zerg being op in order to dominate Sc2 in 2018! Also, in one ideal world in which Protoss are cold blooded killers Maru gets to win a single Code S and the only tournament Rogue wins in his career is BlizzCon 2017, something tells me Serral is in very good company. It's neither meme nor opinion, it is just results. It's rather the interpretation of them that everyone disagrees on. Zerg had an over 70% win rate in tournaments these past years (and something almost equally lopsided like 40% 2nd place finishers). I think foreigner bias explains that by saying that he is just much better than everyone else. I think he is a better zerg than everyone else (but now there are two of them, curiously sharing the same race). However, the best player in my mind, is the one who succeeds despite his race. A fruitdealer, bisu, etc kind of story.
Depends on what you look at, Zerg won 60 % of the premiere tournaments from the Rogue's Blizzcon onwards. All WC titles since the Rogue's Blizzcon onwards and has 35 % of all the 2nd places. It's nice to mention that while this is all happening Rogue managed to win 3 WC titles while Serral managed to get 1 
The last nonzerg WC is TY from the 2017 IEM. The last Protoss WC is sOs from 2015 Blizzcon.
Zerg has a domination we haven't seen before. Zerg GOATs everywhere
Edit> Premiere tournaments numbers (not sure if the last DH is in but I think it should be)
Titles: 32/13/8 (Z/T/P)
runner ups: 19/11/23 (Z/T/P)
Top title achievers: Serral(13), Maru(7), Reynor(6), Rogue(6), Dark(3)
WC titles: Rogue(3), soO, Dark, Serral(1)
The biggest outlier is Maru with 7/13(54 %), the next is Serral with 13/32 (41 %). But hey, for the first time if we remove Serral then Terran and Protoss titles combined in the 3-year history are more than what's left of Zerg's titles
|
On November 30 2020 08:13 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2020 08:09 Morbidius wrote:On November 30 2020 08:06 Xain0n wrote:On November 30 2020 07:54 Calliope wrote:On November 30 2020 07:48 Morbidius wrote:On November 30 2020 07:44 Penev wrote:Do we actually have genuine Serral haters though, on this site? I really only see people objecting to the GOAT status thing, not that he isn't a great player. And baiting of course, LOTS of baiting Is Serral the best foreigner ever? Yes. Would his career have taken an even bigger nosedive if if wasn't for the good old reliable Protoss punching bags he draws every other tournament? Absolutely. I agree with this. Serral is undeniably the best foreigner, but it comes at a time of an extreme zerg dominance that has lasted years. Reynor is a top contender as well, but this dominance just does not seem possible to achieve by foreigners of any other race. Serral DID NOT benefit of Zerg being op in order to dominate Sc2 in 2018! Yeah sorry, i forgot he played Protoss in 2018. How many times will I have to say that Serral reigned alone while Zerg weren't even reaching ro4 in Code S and that if you removed him you would have had one Zerg title in WCS, one Stats vs Dark and one Stats vs Rogue final? Will you ever stop blindly hating? You'd better choose a more fit title for your next thread.
2017 Blizzcon Winner: Zerg
2018: Katowice& Blizzcon Winners: Zerg
2019: Katowice Winner: Zerg
Every single big international tournament before and after Serral's 2018 has a Zerg winner. Don't bring GSL into this, there's no point in judging Serral performance based on tournaments he did not play. It would be like using Terran awful performance in NA to boost up Maru's wins in KR. Why do you insist that Serral was the only poor Zerg surviving the imbalance when every international tournament before and after his run were won by Zergs?
|
On November 30 2020 07:20 anachy wrote:
So this open the question again. Is Byun the Goat?
It took byun winning an online non-premier tournament to open the question again?
|
On November 30 2020 08:17 Calliope wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2020 08:06 Xain0n wrote:On November 30 2020 07:54 Calliope wrote:On November 30 2020 07:48 Morbidius wrote:On November 30 2020 07:44 Penev wrote:Do we actually have genuine Serral haters though, on this site? I really only see people objecting to the GOAT status thing, not that he isn't a great player. And baiting of course, LOTS of baiting Is Serral the best foreigner ever? Yes. Would his career have taken an even bigger nosedive if if wasn't for the good old reliable Protoss punching bags he draws every other tournament? Absolutely. I agree with this. Serral is undeniably the best foreigner, but it comes at a time of an extreme zerg dominance that has lasted years. Reynor is a top contender as well, but this dominance just does not seem possible to achieve by foreigners of any other race. This meme needs to die, it's simply false. Serral DID NOT benefit of Zerg being op in order to dominate Sc2 in 2018! Also, in one ideal world in which Protoss are cold blooded killers Maru gets to win a single Code S and the only tournament Rogue wins in his career is BlizzCon 2017, something tells me Serral is in very good company. It's neither meme nor opinion, it is just results. It's rather the interpretation of them that everyone disagrees on. Zerg had an over 70% win rate in tournaments these past years (and something almost equally lopsided like 40% 2nd place finishers). I think foreigner bias explains that by saying that he is just much better than everyone else. I think he is a better zerg than everyone else (but now there are two of them, curiously sharing the same race). However, the best player in my mind, is the one who succeeds despite his race. A fruitdealer, bisu, etc kind of story.
Serral enjoyed the apex of his success in 2018 while korean Zerg weren't reaching semifinals in GSL.
Go check Zerg's results from June 2018 to February 2019; Zerg was not weak at the time but you cannot confuse that state of the game with that of the extremely Zerg infested 2019 and conclude that Serral won because Zerg was op; it's both simplistic and wrong.
[/QUOTE]
2017 Blizzcon Winner: Zerg
2018: Katowice& Blizzcon Winners: Zerg
2019: Katowice Winner: Zerg
Every single big international tournament before and after Serral's 2018 has a Zerg winner. Don't bring GSL into this, there's no point in judging Serral performance based on tournaments he did not play. It would be like using Terran awful performance in NA to boost up Maru's wins in KR. Why do you insist that Serral was the only poor Zerg surviving the imbalance when every international tournament before and after his run were won by Zergs?[/QUOTE]
Ah, so either GSL wasn't as good as a tournament as you always told me it was or korean Zerg were so inferior to Serral that they don't count when making balance assumpions; considering that we can discard both, the fact that Serral, alone, vastly outperformed the other Zerg players during that period implies that it was not racial balance who made him win.
Zerg wasn't weak but was far from being dominant or overpowered, Serral was just much better than anyone else at the time. What comes before and after is essentially the combination of certain Zerg players peaking, certain Protoss champions entering the Kong line and, at times, both Zerg becoming overtuned and Protoss being overnerfed.
On November 30 2020 07:47 StasisField wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2020 07:44 Penev wrote:Do we actually have genuine Serral haters though, on this site? I really only see people objecting to the GOAT status thing, not that he isn't a great player. And baiting of course, LOTS of baiting I'm honestly not sure. People have definitely been aggressive and hostile towards people praising Serral (and foreigners in general) in the past but it's unclear who or what that hostility stems from.
Here you have genuine haters, just look above.
It's ridicolous that Byun wins one tournament and the default response here on TL is trying to diminish Serral's accomplishments.
|
On November 30 2020 08:28 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2020 08:17 Calliope wrote:On November 30 2020 08:06 Xain0n wrote:On November 30 2020 07:54 Calliope wrote:On November 30 2020 07:48 Morbidius wrote:On November 30 2020 07:44 Penev wrote:Do we actually have genuine Serral haters though, on this site? I really only see people objecting to the GOAT status thing, not that he isn't a great player. And baiting of course, LOTS of baiting Is Serral the best foreigner ever? Yes. Would his career have taken an even bigger nosedive if if wasn't for the good old reliable Protoss punching bags he draws every other tournament? Absolutely. I agree with this. Serral is undeniably the best foreigner, but it comes at a time of an extreme zerg dominance that has lasted years. Reynor is a top contender as well, but this dominance just does not seem possible to achieve by foreigners of any other race. This meme needs to die, it's simply false. Serral DID NOT benefit of Zerg being op in order to dominate Sc2 in 2018! Also, in one ideal world in which Protoss are cold blooded killers Maru gets to win a single Code S and the only tournament Rogue wins in his career is BlizzCon 2017, something tells me Serral is in very good company. It's neither meme nor opinion, it is just results. It's rather the interpretation of them that everyone disagrees on. Zerg had an over 70% win rate in tournaments these past years (and something almost equally lopsided like 40% 2nd place finishers). I think foreigner bias explains that by saying that he is just much better than everyone else. I think he is a better zerg than everyone else (but now there are two of them, curiously sharing the same race). However, the best player in my mind, is the one who succeeds despite his race. A fruitdealer, bisu, etc kind of story. Serral enjoyed the apex of his success in 2018 while korean Zerg weren't reaching semifinals in GSL. Go check Zerg's results from June 2018 to February 2019; Zerg was not weak at the time but you cannot confuse that state of the game with that of the extremely Zerg infested 2019 and conclude that Serral won because Zerg was op; it's both simplistic and wrong.
Do you know what’s funny? During the apex of serrals success that you mentioned, I distinctly remember people complaining about how protoss was too strong against Zerg lmao. Namely those timing attacks. And after that is when protoss received a bunch of nerfs like warp prism, immortal, forge etc nerfs and Zerg got OL speed buff
Not to mention loss of graviton catapult prior
|
On November 30 2020 08:33 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2020 08:28 Xain0n wrote:On November 30 2020 08:17 Calliope wrote:On November 30 2020 08:06 Xain0n wrote:On November 30 2020 07:54 Calliope wrote:On November 30 2020 07:48 Morbidius wrote:On November 30 2020 07:44 Penev wrote:Do we actually have genuine Serral haters though, on this site? I really only see people objecting to the GOAT status thing, not that he isn't a great player. And baiting of course, LOTS of baiting Is Serral the best foreigner ever? Yes. Would his career have taken an even bigger nosedive if if wasn't for the good old reliable Protoss punching bags he draws every other tournament? Absolutely. I agree with this. Serral is undeniably the best foreigner, but it comes at a time of an extreme zerg dominance that has lasted years. Reynor is a top contender as well, but this dominance just does not seem possible to achieve by foreigners of any other race. This meme needs to die, it's simply false. Serral DID NOT benefit of Zerg being op in order to dominate Sc2 in 2018! Also, in one ideal world in which Protoss are cold blooded killers Maru gets to win a single Code S and the only tournament Rogue wins in his career is BlizzCon 2017, something tells me Serral is in very good company. It's neither meme nor opinion, it is just results. It's rather the interpretation of them that everyone disagrees on. Zerg had an over 70% win rate in tournaments these past years (and something almost equally lopsided like 40% 2nd place finishers). I think foreigner bias explains that by saying that he is just much better than everyone else. I think he is a better zerg than everyone else (but now there are two of them, curiously sharing the same race). However, the best player in my mind, is the one who succeeds despite his race. A fruitdealer, bisu, etc kind of story. Serral enjoyed the apex of his success in 2018 while korean Zerg weren't reaching semifinals in GSL. Go check Zerg's results from June 2018 to February 2019; Zerg was not weak at the time but you cannot confuse that state of the game with that of the extremely Zerg infested 2019 and conclude that Serral won because Zerg was op; it's both simplistic and wrong. Do you know what’s funny? During the apex of serrals success that you mentioned, I distinctly remember people complaining about how protoss was too strong against Zerg lmao. Namely those timing attacks. And after that is when protoss received a bunch of nerfs like warp prism, immortal, forge etc nerfs and Zerg got OL speed buff and the rest is history Not to mention loss of graviton catapult prior
I also remember when Protoss players dared outperforming Terran and Zerg for two consecutive GSL championships in the spring of 2019 and the very same people who are now screaming how op Zerg were during the last years(and they definitely became so) complained endlessly saying that Protoss needed to be nerfed to the ground.
|
On November 30 2020 08:24 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2020 08:17 Calliope wrote:On November 30 2020 08:06 Xain0n wrote:On November 30 2020 07:54 Calliope wrote:On November 30 2020 07:48 Morbidius wrote:On November 30 2020 07:44 Penev wrote:Do we actually have genuine Serral haters though, on this site? I really only see people objecting to the GOAT status thing, not that he isn't a great player. And baiting of course, LOTS of baiting Is Serral the best foreigner ever? Yes. Would his career have taken an even bigger nosedive if if wasn't for the good old reliable Protoss punching bags he draws every other tournament? Absolutely. I agree with this. Serral is undeniably the best foreigner, but it comes at a time of an extreme zerg dominance that has lasted years. Reynor is a top contender as well, but this dominance just does not seem possible to achieve by foreigners of any other race. This meme needs to die, it's simply false. Serral DID NOT benefit of Zerg being op in order to dominate Sc2 in 2018! Also, in one ideal world in which Protoss are cold blooded killers Maru gets to win a single Code S and the only tournament Rogue wins in his career is BlizzCon 2017, something tells me Serral is in very good company. It's neither meme nor opinion, it is just results. It's rather the interpretation of them that everyone disagrees on. Zerg had an over 70% win rate in tournaments these past years (and something almost equally lopsided like 40% 2nd place finishers). I think foreigner bias explains that by saying that he is just much better than everyone else. I think he is a better zerg than everyone else (but now there are two of them, curiously sharing the same race). However, the best player in my mind, is the one who succeeds despite his race. A fruitdealer, bisu, etc kind of story. Depends on what you look at, Zerg won 60 % of the premiere tournaments from the Rogue's Blizzcon onwards. All WC titles since the Rogue's Blizzcon onwards and has 35 % of all the 2nd places. It's nice to mention that while this is all happening Rogue managed to win 3 WC titles while Serral managed to get 1 The last nonzerg WC is TY from the 2017 IEM. The last Protoss WC is sOs from 2015 Blizzcon. Zerg has a domination we haven't seen before. Zerg GOATs everywhere Edit> Premiere tournaments numbers (not sure if the last DH is in but I think it should be) Titles: 32/13/8 (Z/T/P) runner ups: 19/11/23 (Z/T/P) Top title achievers: Serral(13), Maru(7), Reynor(6), Rogue(6), Dark(3) WC titles: Rogue(3), soO, Dark, Serral(1) The biggest outlier is Maru with 7/13(54 %), the next is Serral with 13/32 (41 %). But hey, for the first time if we remove Serral then Terran and Protoss titles combined in the 3-year history are more than what's left of Zerg's titles
That's a lot of clown faces but it concords with the results I mentioned. I don't find it funny, but sad. Sad for all the talented players who picked the wrong race. We'll never agree, but I would advocate that we talk less about goats, it's a shitty topic anyway, and more about the best players of each respective race. That is the only fair measurement, given blizzard's unwillingness to adjust the balance (that sadly is not reflected in earnings).
|
On November 30 2020 08:38 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2020 08:33 BerserkSword wrote:On November 30 2020 08:28 Xain0n wrote:On November 30 2020 08:17 Calliope wrote:On November 30 2020 08:06 Xain0n wrote:On November 30 2020 07:54 Calliope wrote:On November 30 2020 07:48 Morbidius wrote:On November 30 2020 07:44 Penev wrote:Do we actually have genuine Serral haters though, on this site? I really only see people objecting to the GOAT status thing, not that he isn't a great player. And baiting of course, LOTS of baiting Is Serral the best foreigner ever? Yes. Would his career have taken an even bigger nosedive if if wasn't for the good old reliable Protoss punching bags he draws every other tournament? Absolutely. I agree with this. Serral is undeniably the best foreigner, but it comes at a time of an extreme zerg dominance that has lasted years. Reynor is a top contender as well, but this dominance just does not seem possible to achieve by foreigners of any other race. This meme needs to die, it's simply false. Serral DID NOT benefit of Zerg being op in order to dominate Sc2 in 2018! Also, in one ideal world in which Protoss are cold blooded killers Maru gets to win a single Code S and the only tournament Rogue wins in his career is BlizzCon 2017, something tells me Serral is in very good company. It's neither meme nor opinion, it is just results. It's rather the interpretation of them that everyone disagrees on. Zerg had an over 70% win rate in tournaments these past years (and something almost equally lopsided like 40% 2nd place finishers). I think foreigner bias explains that by saying that he is just much better than everyone else. I think he is a better zerg than everyone else (but now there are two of them, curiously sharing the same race). However, the best player in my mind, is the one who succeeds despite his race. A fruitdealer, bisu, etc kind of story. Serral enjoyed the apex of his success in 2018 while korean Zerg weren't reaching semifinals in GSL. Go check Zerg's results from June 2018 to February 2019; Zerg was not weak at the time but you cannot confuse that state of the game with that of the extremely Zerg infested 2019 and conclude that Serral won because Zerg was op; it's both simplistic and wrong. Do you know what’s funny? During the apex of serrals success that you mentioned, I distinctly remember people complaining about how protoss was too strong against Zerg lmao. Namely those timing attacks. And after that is when protoss received a bunch of nerfs like warp prism, immortal, forge etc nerfs and Zerg got OL speed buff and the rest is history Not to mention loss of graviton catapult prior I also remember when Protoss players dared outperforming Terran and Zerg for two consecutive GSL championships in the spring of 2019 and the very same people who are now screaming how op Zerg were during the last years(and they definitely became so) complained endlessly saying that Protoss needed to be nerfed to the ground.
Yes I remember that too lol. Smh
|
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 30 2020 08:41 Calliope wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2020 08:24 deacon.frost wrote:On November 30 2020 08:17 Calliope wrote:On November 30 2020 08:06 Xain0n wrote:On November 30 2020 07:54 Calliope wrote:On November 30 2020 07:48 Morbidius wrote:On November 30 2020 07:44 Penev wrote:Do we actually have genuine Serral haters though, on this site? I really only see people objecting to the GOAT status thing, not that he isn't a great player. And baiting of course, LOTS of baiting Is Serral the best foreigner ever? Yes. Would his career have taken an even bigger nosedive if if wasn't for the good old reliable Protoss punching bags he draws every other tournament? Absolutely. I agree with this. Serral is undeniably the best foreigner, but it comes at a time of an extreme zerg dominance that has lasted years. Reynor is a top contender as well, but this dominance just does not seem possible to achieve by foreigners of any other race. This meme needs to die, it's simply false. Serral DID NOT benefit of Zerg being op in order to dominate Sc2 in 2018! Also, in one ideal world in which Protoss are cold blooded killers Maru gets to win a single Code S and the only tournament Rogue wins in his career is BlizzCon 2017, something tells me Serral is in very good company. It's neither meme nor opinion, it is just results. It's rather the interpretation of them that everyone disagrees on. Zerg had an over 70% win rate in tournaments these past years (and something almost equally lopsided like 40% 2nd place finishers). I think foreigner bias explains that by saying that he is just much better than everyone else. I think he is a better zerg than everyone else (but now there are two of them, curiously sharing the same race). However, the best player in my mind, is the one who succeeds despite his race. A fruitdealer, bisu, etc kind of story. Depends on what you look at, Zerg won 60 % of the premiere tournaments from the Rogue's Blizzcon onwards. All WC titles since the Rogue's Blizzcon onwards and has 35 % of all the 2nd places. It's nice to mention that while this is all happening Rogue managed to win 3 WC titles while Serral managed to get 1 The last nonzerg WC is TY from the 2017 IEM. The last Protoss WC is sOs from 2015 Blizzcon. Zerg has a domination we haven't seen before. Zerg GOATs everywhere Edit> Premiere tournaments numbers (not sure if the last DH is in but I think it should be) Titles: 32/13/8 (Z/T/P) runner ups: 19/11/23 (Z/T/P) Top title achievers: Serral(13), Maru(7), Reynor(6), Rogue(6), Dark(3) WC titles: Rogue(3), soO, Dark, Serral(1) The biggest outlier is Maru with 7/13(54 %), the next is Serral with 13/32 (41 %). But hey, for the first time if we remove Serral then Terran and Protoss titles combined in the 3-year history are more than what's left of Zerg's titles That's a lot of clown faces but it concords with the results I mentioned. I don't find it funny, but sad. Sad for all the talented players who picked the wrong race. We'll never agree, but I would advocate that we talk less about goats, it's a shitty topic anyway, and more about the best players of each respective race. That is the only fair measurement, given blizzard's unwillingness to adjust the balance (that sadly is not reflected in earnings).
helps me to not stop watching everything
Also I believe Blizzard haven't touched the Zergs because they don't know what to change to not break them too much as I believe now the Zerg problem lies in their design alone.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
