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Waxangel
United States33196 Posts
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/EPT/summer2020/dhmastersbanner750.jpg) DreamHack SC2 Masters WinterSchedule ![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/EPT/Winter2020/dhwschedule.jpg) Players North America Latin America China Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau, and Japan Oceania / Asia Streams  ESL StarCraft II - Main Stream ESL StarCraft II - B Stream ESL StarCraft II - C Stream ESL - Supplementary StreamVODs ESL Archive on YouTube (time to upload may vary) | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On October 22 2020 07:10 Argonauta wrote: Special play is really sloppy today. he is not in korea rigth? I m pretty sure he still is | ||
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geokilla
Canada8224 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On October 23 2020 02:28 mierin wrote: Why couldn't Stats just have played like Goblin? The more important question is why couldn't Big Gabe just play like TY | ||
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Sibiryak
111 Posts
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
 Lets see if the Oce winners final will be supper close and the Taiwan Winners final a stomp, just like it s meant to be :D | ||
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Husyelt
United States823 Posts
imgur.com edit: I can see it now | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
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darklycid
3375 Posts
On October 24 2020 02:44 Vindicare605 wrote: So the logic of GM Protoss players is that they'd rather lose 100 probes and several Nexus in a game to constant drops and Liberator harassment than to make a Stargate for a couple of Phoenix just to prevent drops. They won't ever make static defense either. Too expensive. lol. I agree on the static d, but getting phoenix after a blink/robo opener is not optimal to stop drops, you just need to many. E: what i dont understand is why marinelord goes for hellion drop twice when he can't even do dmg when the builds line up for it | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States1456 Posts
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Moonerz
United States442 Posts
On October 24 2020 04:15 Vindicare605 wrote: Well today's games have been pretty damn garbage. Just a lot of totally mismatched players and one sided stomps. Theres just too many lower tier players IMO. It removes almost all the suspense out of these group stages because its quite clear who is going to go through and who has literally no shot at all. While I understand giving these players experience so they can get better, it really makes 90% of these matches pointless. 32 slots is just too much for EU. | ||
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Darkness2k11
Chile313 Posts
On October 24 2020 02:44 Vindicare605 wrote: So the logic of GM Protoss players is that they'd rather lose 100 probes and several Nexus in a game to constant drops and Liberator harassment than to make a Stargate for a couple of Phoenix just to prevent drops. They won't ever make static defense either. Too expensive. lol. Lmao a couple phoenixes don't prevent drops, there's no need to shit on players just because they aren't Stats or Trap. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
On October 24 2020 04:54 Darkness2k11 wrote: Lmao a couple phoenixes don't prevent drops, there's no need to shit on players just because they aren't Stats or Trap. HeroMarine literally parked 4 Medivacs in the dead space behind the Protoss base on Romanticide and just left them there, he just moved to the 3rd or main whenever his opponent moved anywhere on the map. Literally ONE phoenix would keep him from doing that. I'm not saying I love the idea, but if the alternative is going to be to take THAT much damage from those 4 Medivacs because you have nothing that flies that can reach them, I think 300 minerals and 250 Gas is more than worth it. It'd be a hell of a lot cheaper than the amount he lost due to those 4 Medivacs hanging around there for most of the game. Alternatively he could have made a couple of Photon Cannons and a Shield Battery protecting them and the Medivacs wouldn't have been able to drop right on his probe line each time too, and that wouldn't have cost him any gas at all. I'm laughing at the logic of players thinking that those are wasted investments when because they aren't investing in any drop protection they end up taking MASSIVE amounts of preventable damage that could easily be avoided if they weren't so stubborn about deviating from their build. If Protoss are gonna keep doing this heavy Robotics style then multi-pronged drops are the natural way to defeat it. It's no different than TvT mech vs bio. If you try and fight Bio with Mech and you don't invest and turrets and sensor towers you're going to have a hard time preventing the Bio player from dropping everywhere. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
On October 24 2020 04:37 Moonerz wrote: Theres just too many lower tier players IMO. It removes almost all the suspense out of these group stages because its quite clear who is going to go through and who has literally no shot at all. While I understand giving these players experience so they can get better, it really makes 90% of these matches pointless. 32 slots is just too much for EU. King of Battles was like this too in the first group stage. Just REALLY obvious who had no shot of competing at all against the top tier competitors, but there were so many Koreans in that group stage that you actually had a couple of good series here and there. Just across the board, the gap between the top competitors in each region and the next tier down is pretty huge it might just be me but it seems like that gap is getting wider as time goes on not narrower. | ||
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ilax30
720 Posts
On October 24 2020 04:28 CicadaSC wrote: this tourney is so confusing to follow i never know what matches are gonna be played on stream Just follow liquipedia, all matches are listed there and you should also see on what stream they are being played. | ||
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Moonerz
United States442 Posts
On October 24 2020 05:33 Vindicare605 wrote: King of Battles was like this too in the first group stage. Just REALLY obvious who had no shot of competing at all against the top tier competitors, but there were so many Koreans in that group stage that you actually had a couple of good series here and there. Just across the board, the gap between the top competitors in each region and the next tier down is pretty huge it might just be me but it seems like that gap is getting wider as time goes on not narrower. That's true too even in GSL Ro32 these days there's a pretty large gap between the top and bottom tiers(though its not nearly as bad in GSL since we have koreans and foreigners to spice up the lineup). I think the round robin format just makes it seem even worse. | ||
Poopi
France12761 Posts
French still going strong overall though | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 24 2020 06:02 Moonerz wrote: That's true too even in GSL Ro32 these days there's a pretty large gap between the top and bottom tiers(though its not nearly as bad in GSL since we have koreans and foreigners to spice up the lineup). I think the round robin format just makes it seem even worse. GSL scaled down to 24 slots rather than 32 for a reason. I don't think the difference between the best and the worst players is all that different between GSL or DH Master Europe (we could check using aligulac), but the format just results in more mismatches getting played out. Someone like Nightmare just plays two opponents in GSL, whereas MilkiCow has to play seven players. But this format also means more games which means more consistent seeding and less players getting lucky/unlucky with match-ups so it has its advantages--though the scheduling makes for a rough viewing experience. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
On October 24 2020 06:58 Poopi wrote: Fucking disappointed MarineLord lost to skillous :/. Qualifying will be a little more difficult. He felt un confident against any of the Protosses. Still a doable group though French still going strong overall though You guys have Clem to carry the flag for the forseeable future. You guys are doing fine. | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On October 24 2020 07:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote: GSL scaled down to 24 slots rather than 32 for a reason. There's 28 players in Code S | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Penev
28453 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
Edit: but this push though | ||
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darklycid
3375 Posts
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Penev
28453 Posts
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Totoro1
25 Posts
Theres just too many lower tier players IMO. I actually like it. One of the big complaints with GSL is that we almost see the exact same players in Code S, there is no novelty. Sure the first group stage is boring if you watch EVERYTHING. But I find it very nice if you follow a few specific players that you like. For example, I'm excited to see goblin's progress, and I'm a bit nostalgic to see older "monsters" still around like Stefano. Such players wouldn't have a chance (and might not have the motivation to practice) if we had a tournament with 16 players. Many games in the first round are one-sided, but it should be pretty obvious which games are going to be bad. For me, I might not watch Raynor vs. Gerald in the first round, but I watched Clem vs. Showtime yesterday and I found it a pretty great series. Liquipedia has the dates and times of every game, so it's quite easy to pick what to watch at a quick glance. If you just want the top of EU. Consider the first round as a qualification round and start watching once we are in the top 16 . | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Swisslink
2949 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
It will be very tough to qualify now that he lost to DnS | ||
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Swisslink
2949 Posts
On October 24 2020 06:02 Moonerz wrote: That's true too even in GSL Ro32 these days there's a pretty large gap between the top and bottom tiers(though its not nearly as bad in GSL since we have koreans and foreigners to spice up the lineup). I think the round robin format just makes it seem even worse. I think there's more to it than simply the larger gap compared to earlier days. I'm not denying that the gap seems larger than ever before. It might also be larger than ever before, but I think that's not the sole reason. The game is getting older and older and therefore players had enough time to figure out what to do in which situation. In my opinion that's the main difference between a few years ago and today. While lower tier players back then were able to surprise the favourites by playing some unexpected, weird stuff, this seems to become increasingly difficult to do. Of course it still happens from time to time, but especially the top tier players don't just seem insanely strong, they are also less vulnerable to this kind of stuff. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24396 Posts
On October 26 2020 08:06 Swisslink wrote: I think there's more to it than simply the larger gap compared to earlier days. I'm not denying that the gap seems larger than ever before. It might also be larger than ever before, but I think that's not the sole reason. The game is getting older and older and therefore players had enough time to figure out what to do in which situation. In my opinion that's the main difference between a few years ago and today. While lower tier players back then were able to surprise the favourites by playing some unexpected, weird stuff, this seems to become increasingly difficult to do. Of course it still happens from time to time, but especially the top tier players don't just seem insanely strong, they are also less vulnerable to this kind of stuff. Yeah it’s extremely difficult to get to the level required while being an unknown quantity in terms of your style. Standard play is essentially the ironing out of holes in trying to play the ‘correct’ stable way, so over time with so many people working at it it’s got the get harder and harder to upset the applecart. Minor gripe about the tournament itself, I’m not sure why the groups are so staggered out, doing a little bit of every group rather than a bigger chunk of one group or two groups. I dunno I just feel it resets a bit of momentum and engagement doing it this way. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12045 Posts
He'll probably adjust within a few days but printf must be shaking his head right now | ||
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darklycid
3375 Posts
Maxpax: plays like has with better mechanics in his games | ||
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darklycid
3375 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12045 Posts
On October 28 2020 04:39 darklycid wrote: Yeah can we please Just remove Cannon Rush from PvP it's beyond dumb. Cannon rush is an inferior strategy, you're making a mistake if you're losing to it. Showtime's reactions were not the best and I think that's what was weird about this match. | ||
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darklycid
3375 Posts
On October 28 2020 04:43 Nebuchad wrote: Cannon rush is an inferior strategy, you're making a mistake if you're losing to it. Showtime's reactions were not the best and I think that's what was weird about this match. Nah Cannon Rush is pretty Solid If you can Play it, it's Just dumb Shit in PvP. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12045 Posts
On October 28 2020 04:44 darklycid wrote: Nah Cannon Rush is pretty Solid If you can Play it, it's Just dumb Shit in PvP. Kevin to the rescue | ||
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darklycid
3375 Posts
I watched that too, still Look at how many Games harstem lost at first, it's very easy to fuck smth Up against it, and it's still pretty degenerate stuff. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12045 Posts
On October 28 2020 04:49 darklycid wrote: I watched that too, still Look at how many Games harstem lost at first, it's very easy to fuck smth Up against it, and it's still pretty degenerate stuff. Well yeah that's my point when Harstem didn't have the optimal reactions he lost, then he started winning. | ||
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darklycid
3375 Posts
On October 28 2020 04:54 Nebuchad wrote: Well yeah that's my point when Harstem didn't have the optimal reactions he lost, then he started winning. I mean i'm Not saying Cannon Rush is OP or that Showtime lost bc it is too strong, it's Just dumb to watch and to play, noone i know Likes to Play against it or watch Cannon Rush games (also i don't think any pro has voiced His approvement ever). | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12045 Posts
On October 28 2020 04:56 darklycid wrote: I mean i'm Not saying Cannon Rush is OP or that Showtime lost bc it is too strong, it's Just dumb to watch and to play, noone i know Likes to Play against it or watch Cannon Rush games (also i don't think any pro has voiced His approvement ever). I find it interesting in terms of strategic play that Maxpax had the idea of testing whether Showtime was good at countering this, and then pressed on when he saw that Showtime wasn't. I think that's good play. Like, if the next time they play Maxpax still does it that will be questionable, because Showtime will obviously work on it in the meanwhile. But for this series it was interesting. | ||
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mikedupp
233 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
And then we have Stephano v uThermal in which last season the Dutchman made the best comeback we have seen in Dh this year so far. Both players are 2-1 so a win would put them in a great position going forward and maybe even challenging the top-2 spot behind Serral. And talking about Serral, he hasnt lost a map yet in his group. But hes taking on Drogo who back in june took 2 games off him in the stay at homestory cup with some great aggressive builds Drogo is known for in the PvZ matchup. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8224 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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Luolis
Finland7098 Posts
On October 28 2020 04:56 darklycid wrote: I mean i'm Not saying Cannon Rush is OP or that Showtime lost bc it is too strong, it's Just dumb to watch and to play, noone i know Likes to Play against it or watch Cannon Rush games (also i don't think any pro has voiced His approvement ever). Cannon rushing is a thousand times better than the average PvP with the adept shuffle. | ||
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darklycid
3375 Posts
On October 29 2020 03:47 Luolis wrote: Cannon rushing is a thousand times better than the average PvP with the adept shuffle. wrong. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12045 Posts
On October 29 2020 05:11 Argonauta wrote: hmmm now that the folk heroes serral and reynor fully embtace the swarmhost play.... will thry be label as evil beasts as it with Rogue? Reynor has been using swarm hosts for a while. That's the beauty of ZvP, you don't just use one broken strategy all the time, you switch between a few strategies that are all very good. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24396 Posts
On October 29 2020 04:37 Xain0n wrote: Have I ever told you the story of Darth Serral the wise? A few times :p | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
Were you watching the games today? He was wearing a black hood in true Sith fashion. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8224 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Penev
28453 Posts
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Penev
28453 Posts
right? | ||
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geokilla
Canada8224 Posts
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
edit: ...guess not | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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Penev
28453 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8224 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24396 Posts
On October 29 2020 06:06 Xain0n wrote: Were you watching the games today? He was wearing a black hood in true Sith fashion. I was looking forward to getting caught up with VoDs, now even more so now. Although I’m not sure Serral suits being a villain, too nice a fellow. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24396 Posts
On October 29 2020 09:20 geokilla wrote: My head hurts Reading the last few posts, it sounds like I missed some fantastic clown fiesta goodness, NA style. Anyone able to give a brief summary? | ||
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LennX
4530 Posts
On October 29 2020 09:30 WombaT wrote: Reading the last few posts, it sounds like I missed some fantastic clown fiesta goodness, NA style. Anyone able to give a brief summary? 30+ zealots vs 5 carriers, cannons vs interceptors in a no mining situation, 38 mins PvP | ||
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ilax30
720 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24396 Posts
On October 29 2020 19:00 LennX wrote: 30+ zealots vs 5 carriers, cannons vs interceptors in a no mining situation, 38 mins PvP Sounds beautiful | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
Hopefully Mlord manages to qualify but even if he closes it out vs HeroMarine it'll be hard... Gz Clem clean sheet still | ||
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ilax30
720 Posts
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
"So I made a decision, and it was wrong. It was a bad call, Ripley; it was a bad call." | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6805 Posts
Bit disappointed by ma boi MaxPax and Vanya. Hope they show up to the mysterious January event thingy | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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stilt
France2746 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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darklycid
3375 Posts
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darklycid
3375 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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TheCheapSkate
Slovenia316 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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Kreuger
Sweden656 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/jlq270/dh_winter_2020_final_day_bracket_possibilities/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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thickertom
China612 Posts
On November 01 2020 22:55 Elentos wrote: X Y F A N S still going strong Later,  TIME won Game 1 by "TvT", won Game 2 by "ZvT" and won Game 3 by "PvT"... | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12045 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
On November 02 2020 01:47 Nebuchad wrote: Is it map difference or direct confrontation? (Sry I'm sure they said it but I was watching the french stream) Map difference first. The order is listed on liquipedia. Sad series from mana, takes the W but loses the map and is out.. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12045 Posts
On November 02 2020 01:59 ilax30 wrote: Map difference first. The order is listed on liquipedia. Sad series from mana, takes the W but loses the map and is out.. Yeah that's what I thought, thx. When I asked liquipedia was saying something else that's why I was surprised | ||
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ilax30
720 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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followZeRoX
Serbia1449 Posts
On November 02 2020 07:50 Xain0n wrote: When will the pairings be announced? Should be tomorrow judging by other seasons. | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
Lambo actually still has a Chance to get to top 7 in EPT standings, the race is on between him, Elazer, uThermal and MLord | ||
CynicalDeath
Italy3209 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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aringadingding
474 Posts
On November 02 2020 22:25 Elentos wrote: I didn't even realize when looking at the EU standings that all advancing Protoss players will start in the lower bracket. Yeah.... however, its not very surprising. I doubt very much that any toss will survive further than loser's round 4. | ||
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Swisslink
2949 Posts
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On November 03 2020 04:45 Swisslink wrote: I just find it funny how all regions seem to have a race that does better than the others. In Korea we just had a TvT finals, in Europe a ZvZ final would be no surprise and I wouldn‘t be shocked if it ended up being PvP in NA. Just like season 1 | ||
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ilax30
720 Posts
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Gina
241 Posts
On November 04 2020 01:09 ilax30 wrote: Cant wait to see lurkers in every TvZ today, gonna be fun. Enjoy the games every1 :/ | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
That timing in game 4 would have been defended without that huge supply block... | ||
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ilax30
720 Posts
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Gina
241 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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Swisslink
2949 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8224 Posts
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Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
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Rubicant1
115 Posts
On November 04 2020 01:09 ilax30 wrote: Cant wait to see lurkers in every TvZ today, gonna be fun. Enjoy the games every1 Oops. | ||
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medium_AI
Norway42 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
Cant make lurkers if terran dies so soon everytime, i cry | ||
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medium_AI
Norway42 Posts
On November 04 2020 03:00 ilax30 wrote: Cant make lurkers if terran dies so soon everytime, i cry It's okay to admit you fucked up. They can't all be zingers | ||
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ilax30
720 Posts
On November 04 2020 03:06 medium_AI wrote: It's okay to admit you fucked up. They can't all be zingers If they were long games yes, but its hard to make loerkers when terran all ins you Im alll-in on reynor making them though, I know the faith of the peeps here has been challenged, and I know after today I may lose a lot of followers here. But I need to make these tough choices, and my choice has been made. See you guys on the other side. | ||
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ilax30
720 Posts
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Gina
241 Posts
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Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8224 Posts
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On November 04 2020 04:38 geokilla wrote: I have never seen Lurkers lose against Terran. Someone inform Harstem, a meme needs to be created. | ||
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ilax30
720 Posts
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
On November 04 2020 04:45 blooblooblahblah wrote: Honestly, it was just the forgetting upgrades that was the real problem. Terran is so momentum based and he lost his timing, so even though his position was great, he couldn't really capitalise. That was a problem for sure, but would it really have mattered? It was reynor settiing up lurkers at multiple bases avoiding a big confontration. Upgrades would of been even at best, I guess with even upgrades reynor would of gotten worse trades and his bank wouldnt be that insane. But to win the match he needed something more. | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
On November 04 2020 04:47 ilax30 wrote: That was a problem for sure, but would it really have mattered? It was reynor settiing up lurkers at multiple bases avoiding a big confontration. Upgrades would of been even at best, I guess with even upgrades reynor would of gotten worse trades and his bank wouldnt be that insane. But to win the match he needed something more. It's more that the reason it got into a game like that is because uThermal couldn't capitalise on his timing. He was forced to play that game because of that. | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
*Reynor starts 2 lurker dens* | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
On November 04 2020 04:38 geokilla wrote: I have never seen Lurkers lose against Terran. Funny how the little +1 range buff turned them from a meme unit (in TvZ) to the best unit in the matchup. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24396 Posts
On November 04 2020 04:38 geokilla wrote: I have never seen Lurkers lose against Terran. DRG wishes this were true. | ||
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Calliope
297 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 04 2020 05:56 Calliope wrote: Racially balanced at the top like usual... please, Clem, do your best. I guess you are worried about T being op in LA e China and P being op in Taiwan then! In the last years Serral and then Reynor have been head and shoulders above the competition outside of Korea , Zerg or not, especially after Neeb's decline; that's even true now that there are regional Dreamhacks, complaining seems out of place. Clem is up there in terms of skill now, he just have to win a championship. | ||
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followZeRoX
Serbia1449 Posts
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mpmaley86
115 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6805 Posts
On November 04 2020 05:56 Calliope wrote: Racially balanced at the top like usual... please, Clem, do your best. 1st $25,000 ₩28,299,709 900 South Korea TY Afreeca Freecs 2nd $12,000 ₩13,583,860 630 South Korea Maru Jin Air Green Wings 3rd-4th $8,500 ₩9,596,339 450 South Korea Stats Afreeca Freecs ahhm what? T clearly OP | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
On November 04 2020 07:44 Xain0n wrote: I guess you are worried about T being op in LA e China and P being op in Taiwan then! In the last years Serral and then Reynor have been head and shoulders above the competition outside of Korea , Zerg or not, especially after Neeb's decline; that's even true now that there are regional Dreamhacks, complaining seems out of place. Clem is up there in terms of skill now, he just have to win a championship. China and Taiwan are not representative because they have a tiny pool of players, Europe has the biggest pool. | ||
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ilax30
720 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
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mpmaley86
115 Posts
edit: After some refreshing I see them on their YT channel! | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + sarcasm | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6805 Posts
Future needs a perfect run while Scarlett can't get any further for him to still have a chance | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
On November 05 2020 23:01 mierin wrote: I don't think UT has any chance against Showtime. I mean, Marinelord should of taken game 4 and went to a decider yesterday, and I would consider Thermy's TvP to be better. So eh | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
NVM he went hydra instead of roach :/ | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33196 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8224 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
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darklycid
3375 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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darklycid
3375 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
On November 07 2020 02:11 darklycid wrote: Throwtime in the house. Its ironic that F2 would have saved Showtime and dragged this game for much longer | ||
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darklycid
3375 Posts
On November 07 2020 02:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Its ironic that F2 would have saved Showtime and dragged this game for much longer I dare to say that showtime was in a good position after he took out the base. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12045 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On November 07 2020 02:37 Nebuchad wrote: Is there a way for me to bet that protoss won't win any major tourneys in 2021? If there was the odds would be terrible anyway. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12045 Posts
On November 07 2020 02:55 Morbidius wrote: If there was the odds would be terrible anyway. I don't know, Astrea and Neeb are likely to win at least one of the Masters NA, I think I'd be taking a decent risk. | ||
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darklycid
3375 Posts
On November 07 2020 02:57 Nebuchad wrote: I don't know, Astrea and Neeb are likely to win at least one of the Masters NA, I think I'd be taking a decent risk. Masters NA and Major in one sentence | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12045 Posts
Well it counts as premier on TL so it would probably be included in the bet regardless of what I think about it :p | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On November 07 2020 02:57 Nebuchad wrote: I don't know, Astrea and Neeb are likely to win at least one of the Masters NA, I think I'd be taking a decent risk. Would not be so terrible if these were included. These are safe Protoss wins. | ||
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darklycid
3375 Posts
On November 07 2020 03:00 Morbidius wrote: Would not be so terrible if these were included. These are safe Protoss wins. Sometimes Scarlett wins tho. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Rubicant1
115 Posts
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ytherik
199 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
On November 07 2020 03:25 Rubicant1 wrote: Gotta say, as much as Clem has these prodigious peaks of skill at times, his pretty consistent rage quits or "g" when he gets frustrated makes it hard to really root for him. i get your point and its valid but id give him a break here for still being quite young. Not everyone can really manage their emotions, but he’ll get there, he’s a good egg. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Rubicant1
115 Posts
On November 07 2020 03:27 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: i get your point and its valid but id give him a break here for still being quite young. Not everyone can really manage their emotions, but he’ll get there, he’s a good egg. Yeah, true. He does seem like a good dude, so I'm probably being a bit harsh. | ||
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Calliope
297 Posts
On November 07 2020 03:25 Rubicant1 wrote: Gotta say, as much as Clem has these prodigious peaks of skill at times, his pretty consistent rage quits or "g" when he gets frustrated makes it hard to really root for him. Who cares about gg's without taking into account that we got a very young, still inexperienced guy who's also combatting an extreme zerg dominance the past years. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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darklycid
3375 Posts
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youaremysin
119 Posts
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Rubicant1
115 Posts
On November 07 2020 03:53 darklycid wrote: Not Clearing the Rocks seems Like Something zerg shouldn't do when taking that Base. Yeah...sort of seems like it played a pretty big role in Clem getting that initial position, lol. Odd not to just click on it sometime in the first 6 minutes. | ||
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darklycid
3375 Posts
Edit: Well... | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
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NotSoHappy
445 Posts
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Calliope
297 Posts
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Pwere
Canada1556 Posts
More! | ||
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Rubicant1
115 Posts
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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Haku
Germany550 Posts
Both were choking at some points and i can't believe how often Serral managed to pull things back with his relentless runbys. STOP THE GAME! No seriously, GGs, thanks for the great game! | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
On November 07 2020 04:16 mierin wrote: Man, what a nail biter. I wonder if I missed something significant, but like halfway through the game when they were both at 180 ish supply Clem looked like he had already lost in the player cam. that was when he realised he missclicked in the ebay and didnt have the perfect timing for upgrades for his very strong push ... | ||
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Husyelt
United States823 Posts
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On November 07 2020 04:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: that was when he realised he missclicked in the ebay and didnt have the perfect timing for upgrades for his very strong push ... Oh right, the building armor thing. Thanks | ||
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Rubicant1
115 Posts
On November 07 2020 04:16 mierin wrote: Man, what a nail biter. I wonder if I missed something significant, but like halfway through the game when they were both at 180 ish supply Clem looked like he had already lost in the player cam. I think it was right after where he had taken some amazing engagements/outpaced Serral, then took a really bad fight that had knocked him down to 150/ish supply--which Serral promptly rewarded by throwing away a ton of lings/banes up a ramp. Or maybe the armor>< | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
EDIT: Reynor is the literal interview GOAT | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 07 2020 05:34 mierin wrote: Yet another 2-2-1 series. I wasn't expecting either of these last 2 to go to 5 games. EDIT: Reynor is the literal interview GOAT Clem vs Serral goes to game 5 pretty often. | ||
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stilt
France2746 Posts
On November 07 2020 05:34 mierin wrote: Yet another 2-2-1 series. I wasn't expecting either of these last 2 to go to 5 games. EDIT: Reynor is the literal interview GOAT His energy is so infectious, it's a great but I still prefer the more ironic approach of Stephano :p | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On November 07 2020 07:52 stilt wrote: His energy is so infectious, it's a great but I still prefer the more ironic approach of Stephano :p I'll never forget his "JA JA JA" homestory cup performance haha man the guy has talents on so many levels. | ||
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SharkStarcraft
Austria2196 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24396 Posts
On November 08 2020 01:56 SharkStarcraft wrote: Off topic I guess but I find it really inappropriate how Nathanias is wearing a freaking tank top while casting this premiere event. A proper shirt like DeMu would be ideal imo but not necessarily required but man put in a little bit of effort. He looks like a hobo. You misspelt 'sexy'. | ||
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stilt
France2746 Posts
On November 07 2020 16:13 mierin wrote: I'll never forget his "JA JA JA" homestory cup performance haha man the guy has talents on so many levels. Or his "to the bank" :p Anyway, if Showtime wins this, it will be the first time a toss manages to get in the top 4 of dh eu. Oh and as usual, very solid play by Gabe, GG ! | ||
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Luolis
Finland7098 Posts
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OsaX Nymloth
Poland3244 Posts
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darklycid
3375 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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darklycid
3375 Posts
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ytherik
199 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Calliope
297 Posts
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ytherik
199 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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darklycid
3375 Posts
On November 08 2020 03:09 [PkF] Wire wrote: that one was 100% on Showtime looking rather off today, you could see how frustrated he was when he conceded gg in g3. Probably just one of those days when you don't feel it and everything goes wrong. While true, pvt is pretty hard right now i'd say, terran has alot of builds and you kinda need to guess what it is and it is easy to die to them (like blink can easily die hard to hellion drop, sg can easily die to those tank pushes with scvs etc.). | ||
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ytherik
199 Posts
On November 08 2020 03:09 Calliope wrote: This young man is the boss. I love Big Gabe but I'm crossing my fingers for Clem, he is our only hope among this Z dominance. Can't see Heromarine having any chance against Serral or Reynor on these maps. Imagine thinking T is currently not favored in TvZ smh | ||
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darklycid
3375 Posts
On November 08 2020 03:12 ytherik wrote: Imagine thinking T is currently not favored in TvZ smh Kr terrans look pretty good in tvz rn even vs serral/reynor :D edit: misread im dumb | ||
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ytherik
199 Posts
On November 08 2020 03:12 darklycid wrote: Kr terrans look pretty good in tvz rn even vs serral/reynor :D edit: misread im dumb Yeah exactly my point. But Calliope seems to be stuck in 2019 :D | ||
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darklycid
3375 Posts
On November 08 2020 03:13 ytherik wrote: Yeah exactly my point. But Calliope seems to be stuck in 2019 :D I just wanna see toss do something (na doesn't count tbh), but if trap doesn't have a good run it seems kinda impossible :D | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On November 08 2020 03:11 darklycid wrote: While true, pvt is pretty hard right now i'd say, terran has alot of builds and you kinda need to guess what it is and it is easy to die to them (like blink can easily die hard to hellion drop, sg can easily die to those tank pushes with scvs etc.). I don't disagree that the state of P looks pretty harsh these days (v both Z and T). The 3-0 is still 100% on Showtime's lackluster performance and 0% on the current state of P imo. Anyway the upcoming matches should be really good | ||
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darklycid
3375 Posts
On November 08 2020 03:15 [PkF] Wire wrote: I don't disagree that the state of P looks pretty harsh these days (v both Z and T). The 3-0 is still 100% on Showtime's lackluster performance and 0% on the current state of P imo. Anyway the upcoming matches should be really good As i said i agree. this was deffo on showtime, hope he'll bounce, back has been a rough year in wcs for him. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 08 2020 03:12 darklycid wrote: Kr terrans look pretty good in tvz rn even vs serral/reynor :D edit: misread im dumb KR terrans? Cure did. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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stilt
France2746 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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Calliope
297 Posts
On November 08 2020 03:13 ytherik wrote: Yeah exactly my point. But Calliope seems to be stuck in 2019 :D And 2020, only the last GSL was not a z fest. After 10 years there still is no foreigner who can dominate with any other race than Z. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 08 2020 03:55 Calliope wrote: And 2020, only the last GSL was not a z fest. After 10 years there still is no foreigner who can dominate with any other race than Z. That's false, Code S S1 2020 had Cure, Inno and TY in the ro4. | ||
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Calliope
297 Posts
On November 08 2020 03:58 Xain0n wrote: That's false, Code S S1 2020 had Cure, Inno and TY in the ro4. And S2, 2/4 Z and Rogue a victor as well as an almost complete foreign Z domination like always. Not to mention a 70% win rate in major tournaments. It is too soon to declare 2020 as being very different. And I am hoping for Clem to prove me wrong by finally having a foreigner being a top contender with any other race than Z. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On November 08 2020 03:55 Calliope wrote: And 2020, only the last GSL was not a z fest. After 10 years there still is no foreigner who can dominate with any other race than Z. That's on foreigners, not on race. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
Come on Joona, take this 3-2 home! | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 08 2020 04:02 Calliope wrote: And S2, 2/4 Z and Rogue a victor as well as an almost complete foreign Z domination like always. Not to mention a 70% win rate in major tournaments. It is too soon to declare 2020 as being very different. And I am hoping for Clem to prove me wrong by finally having a foreigner being a top contender with any other race than Z. The Korean or Global events this year have really not been zerg fests--Zerg won some of them sure, but they have hardly dominated in TvZ. In fact the TvZ winrate has favored Terran in most of the premier tournaments this year. | ||
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ytherik
199 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24396 Posts
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Zzzapper
1791 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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ytherik
199 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Zzzapper
1791 Posts
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TentativePanda
United States800 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On November 08 2020 03:55 Calliope wrote: And 2020, only the last GSL was not a z fest. After 10 years there still is no foreigner who can dominate with any other race than Z. We've had periods where Naniwa, Neeb and Lilbow dominated the foreign scene. | ||
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ilax30
720 Posts
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ytherik
199 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 08 2020 04:46 royalroadweed wrote: We've had periods where Naniwa, Neeb and Lilbow dominated the foreign scene. I don't think he meant locally. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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Calliope
297 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On November 08 2020 05:44 royalroadweed wrote: These little marines squads running around as spotters is a small arms race. Years ago it was 1, then it became 2 cause your 2 marines will kill your opponents 1 marine and now a 3 marine squad isn't uncommon. I wonder how high it will go? I'm ready for the "spotter" 20 marine force lol | ||
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ytherik
199 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 08 2020 08:09 ilax30 wrote: Hm, Neeb didnt look great at the start of the year and thought Covid would help him as that mean the regionals came back and he would play mostly against NA players again.. But boy, even in NA he now isnt the king pin anymore it seems.. And thats not just because of Neeb.. Astrea really stepped it up these last 12 months. Astrea has improved and I'm glad that happened but Neeb has been playing so much worse in 2020, it feels like he's barely a top 10 non korean atm. | ||
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aringadingding
474 Posts
On November 08 2020 08:26 Xain0n wrote: Astrea has improved and I'm glad that happened but Neeb has been playing so much worse in 2020, it feels like he's barely a top 10 non korean atm. He has improved for sure, but it seems like toss right now are a bit disheartened in general which might have influenced Neeb as well Toss are more or less extinct when it comes to winning big tourneys the last couple of years, and now when Blizzard will only make tweaks at most to change anything in the game, that will probably continue to be the case in the future of sc2. So no new young player will begin and chose toss in the hope of becoming a winner in the bigger events, and the older ones who continues will have to choose if it is worth the effort they put in. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33196 Posts
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stilt
France2746 Posts
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Tsubbi
Germany7967 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
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ytherik
199 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
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Calliope
297 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33196 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On November 09 2020 03:36 Waxangel wrote: u'd think someone who's made over $800,000 in prize money could afford to turn up the heat He's Finnish, it's a question of national pride | ||
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Scarlett`
Canada2377 Posts
On November 09 2020 03:58 Waxangel wrote: Serral so good he's advanced the classic "Ultralisks into lose" strat into its next form, "Hive into lose" Maybe it was ultra cavern into lose all along | ||
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On November 09 2020 03:58 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Yeah uncharacteristic play from Serral--messing up some micro is one thing, but that decision making was another. yeah it felt like he was almost always fighting way of creep and losing tons of banelings, Clem did play amazing in the second half of that game but i don't think he should have been able to win that one | ||
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Calliope
297 Posts
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ytherik
199 Posts
Maybe he should take a page from Reynor's book and go straight into Lurkers these days. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33196 Posts
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darklycid
3375 Posts
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Tsubbi
Germany7967 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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ytherik
199 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Aeromi
France14456 Posts
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Oukka
Finland1683 Posts
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mpmaley86
115 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:09 Tsubbi wrote: Terran attacks from start to finish in every zvt after these last patches, it's really one sided. Also the risk reward on mine drops is off after getting cloak so easily Ah cmon - Just because we finally see one guy outmultitasking Serral we don't have to immediately blame it on balance | ||
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Calliope
297 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:09 Charoisaur wrote: ok that was Maru level multitasking Yes, this is pure poetry. How is he everywhere? Seriously worried about his wrists, though. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:11 Charoisaur wrote: Ah cmon - Just because we finally see one guy outmultitasking Serral we don't have to immediately blame it on balance We just had another ZvZ winner finals but zerg players here are convinced the game is unplayable. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
Clem's multitasking is too much. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:12 Morbidius wrote: We just had another ZvZ winner finals but zerg players here are convinced the game is unplayable. yeah its a little crazy, if anyone should be complaining about balance it is Protoss rn | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
Just seems to be having a bad day | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
I gotta say, Clem looks a tad sharper than their previous series in the Upper Bracket (a series that looked decent for him at one point too), and it's making a big difference. Serral looks sloppier, but it's hard to tell if it's just the elevated level of Clem causing more unforced errors or he's just not quite in the zone today. Either way, Serral has been noticeably un-clutch this year, despite still having a very high skill level. Rooting for Clem just so we get to see all of the Big 3 of Europe play each other again this tournament. | ||
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NotSoHappy
445 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Oukka
Finland1683 Posts
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ytherik
199 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33196 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:24 ytherik wrote: Window mines are just swarm host level of stupid. It's not about balance. It's about stupid design and risk-reward ratio. It's not about balance or design or even widow mines. It's about people getting butthurt when Serral loses. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:27 Charoisaur wrote: Clem throwing it by not going tanks vs mass Roach Ravager? That's just Clem's playstyle. He doesn't seem to favour tanks all that often in longer macro games. | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
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Gina
241 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:31 ZigguratOfUr wrote: That's just Clem's playstyle. He doesn't seem to favour tanks all that often in longer macro games. I'm pretty sure though you win almost 100% if you go for a 2/2 tank timing after defending a mass Roach Ravager attack. This way he allowed Serral to go to the lategame. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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ytherik
199 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:35 Charoisaur wrote: I'm pretty sure though you win almost 100% if you go for a 2/2 tank timing after defending a mass Roach Ravager attack. This way he allowed Serral to go to the lategame. Tanks might be the textbook answer, but if Clem rarely practices that style and usually just goes for fewer mines and more marauders against ravagers, there is some additional risk to changing it up on the fly. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:35 sneakyfox wrote: Tbh I think that was a bit of nerves from Clem. He could probably just have sat back a bit longer (and defended the burrow roaches) but seemed overeager to end the game. He totally went for the ''forget base, micro the attack''. | ||
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ytherik
199 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
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Aeromi
France14456 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:42 Charoisaur wrote: Serral didn't target the medivac at all!? Evidently. I doubt medivac can survive so long against this many queens without ignoring it. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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ytherik
199 Posts
TvZ looking rather sad for Z though ;( | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:42 Charoisaur wrote: Serral didn't target the medivac at all!? Yeah really not sure what happened there, would have to rewatch it to see if Clem maybe kept microing it out of range. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:46 ytherik wrote: TvZ looking rather sad for Z though ;( what are you talking about?! | ||
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Calliope
297 Posts
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:28 ZigguratOfUr wrote: It's not about balance or design or even widow mines. It's about people getting butthurt when Serral loses. And you manage to balance whine about toss in ZvT matchup. | ||
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Calliope
297 Posts
I don't understand anything. Is he angry that it is not a ZvZ finals like usual? Z has 70% win rates and the winners bracket winner is zerg... | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:49 Calliope wrote: I don't understand anything. Is he angry that it is not a ZvZ finals like usual? Z has 70% win rates and the winners bracket winner is zerg... the top Zergs aren't supposed to lose to the top players of the other races. | ||
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ytherik
199 Posts
The amount of effective builds/openings Terran can do right now vs Z seems crazy. Feels like Z has to either cheese or take punches for 12 minutes while scouting and defending perfectly to maybe have a slight chance in the late game. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:49 Morbidius wrote: GOAT can't win region locked tournament a single time in a year. hahhhaha where's Xainon when we need him? | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:49 Calliope wrote: I don't understand anything. Is he angry that it is not a ZvZ finals like usual? Z has 70% win rates and the winners bracket winner is zerg... yes seems like maru loosing to a terran and serral splitting series with a terran is a sign of terran being OP... | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:48 Ryndika wrote: And you manage to balance whine about toss in ZvT matchup. Dunno what you're talking about--I haven't mentioned toss. | ||
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tennisl
United Kingdom44 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:51 tennisl wrote: that widowmine drops from Clem did remind me how Cure beat both Serral and Reynor few weeks ago correct. However that there was a mistake both times as siege tanks are a better strategy | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:50 Charoisaur wrote: hahhhaha where's Xainon when we need him? I'm here but that's so senseless it doesn't even trigger me. GOAT has nothing to do with winning a certain tournament, Serral being the GOAT is something you guys are more obsessed than me with and I have never denied that this year he hasn't been as good as the previous ones. I am rooting for Clem to win a Dreamhack, I'm actually happy he advanced. | ||
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stilt
France2746 Posts
But Gg Clem ! | ||
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ytherik
199 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:51 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: yes seems like maru loosing to a terran and serral splitting series with a terran is a sign of terran being OP... Why are you looking at the score only? The series Serral won vs Clem were 2x cheese wins and one barely won with many lucky bane hits. At no point it looked like Z has viable choices to put T under pressure except cheesing. It's just not the ZvT I loved to watch in the past so I am a little sad. It seems too one sided these days where T is doing constant aggression and Z can't do much about it except taking punches and hoping to survive until 3/3 and Hive tech. Nevertheless, Clem played phenomenally today. Congrats to him. | ||
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Scarlett`
Canada2377 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:58 ytherik wrote: Why are you looking at the score only? The series Serral won vs Clem were 2x cheese wins and one barely won with many lucky bane hits. At no point it looked like Z has viable choices to put T under pressure except cheesing. It's just not the ZvT I loved to watch in the past so I am a little sad. It seems too one sided these days where T is doing constant aggression and Z can't do much about it except taking punches and hoping to survive until 3/3 and Hive tech. reynors g onna win this just watch the final | ||
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Gina
241 Posts
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Calliope
297 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:58 ytherik wrote: Why are you looking at the score only? The series Serral won vs Clem were 2x cheese wins and one barely won with many lucky bane hits. At no point it looked like Z has viable choices to put T under pressure except cheesing. It's just not the ZvT I loved to watch in the past so I am a little sad. It seems too one sided these days where T is doing constant aggression and Z can't do much about it except taking punches and hoping to survive until 3/3 and Hive tech. Nevertheless, Clem played phenomenally today. Congrats to him. This wierd and anachronistic balance whine is disregarding pretty much the entire tournament except the games vs Clem. What foremost needs lamenting is the state of P. | ||
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ytherik
199 Posts
On November 09 2020 05:03 Calliope wrote: This wierd and anachronistic balance whine is disregarding pretty much the entire tournament except the games vs Clem. What foremost needs lamenting is the state of P. The state of P is tragic I agree. Okay let's see what Reynor can do here, for a moment I forgot about the wonder kid | ||
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Gina
241 Posts
On November 09 2020 05:03 Calliope wrote: What foremost needs lamenting is the state of P. Needs mourning. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
On November 09 2020 05:03 Calliope wrote: This wierd and anachronistic balance whine is disregarding pretty much the entire tournament except the games vs Clem. What foremost needs lamenting is the state of P. yeah broken logic and missed facts prevail here big time. We have now the dream finals of two wunderkinds!!! | ||
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33196 Posts
On November 09 2020 05:01 Scarlett` wrote: reynors g onna win this just watch the final such a transparent reverse jinx | ||
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Calliope
297 Posts
On November 09 2020 05:05 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: yeah broken logic and missed facts prevail here big time. We have now the dream finals of two wunderkinds!!! It's a dream! I hope it will be as good as the two vs serral games. I don't really like Clem's chances with Reynor 1 game up and the first map being Jagganatha, though. Being a negative nancy I am also a bit scared of whathever impact fatigue may have. The Serral matches, particularly the first two maps seemed extremely intense. Still, I trust these guys to give us the zvt this game was made for! | ||
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Gina
241 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
On November 09 2020 04:50 ytherik wrote: The amount of effective builds/openings Terran can do right now vs Z seems crazy. Feels like Z has to either cheese or take punches for 12 minutes while scouting and defending perfectly to maybe have a slight chance in the late game. so hows it going? | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 09 2020 05:17 Gina wrote: How many maps up does he start again? Well there is the one he earns from winning the upper bracket and then there is ZERGANNATHA!! | ||
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Calliope
297 Posts
On November 09 2020 05:17 Gina wrote: How many maps up does he start again? 1 map. ESL Pro Tour/2020/21/Masters/Winter/EU | ||
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Gina
241 Posts
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ytherik
199 Posts
I would like to say that kid is already restoring my hope for Z but I would like to see some normal games first  | ||
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Calliope
297 Posts
On November 09 2020 05:19 Gina wrote: Sorry, Xainon's answer is the right one =) Oh okay, yeah, Jagannatha is a weird map. Why have something that lopsided in? Isn't it almost Lost temple levels of bad, where your nat was pretty much your opponent's nat. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24396 Posts
On November 09 2020 05:02 Gina wrote: How about looking at this next series before coming to big conclusions? What absolute insanity is this? :O | ||
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Waxangel
United States33196 Posts
this is sports; the only thing that matters is the thing that JUST happened | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
On November 09 2020 05:31 ZigguratOfUr wrote: That wasn't even hold-position lurkers was it--just lurkers on the other side of the Line of Sight blockers... perhaps both | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
2 more! Totally doable | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33196 Posts
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Poaktree
165 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
Gogo! The prophecy! Clem on top of the foreign world!! From top 3 to top 2 to top 1 | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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egrimm
Poland1199 Posts
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Calliope
297 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33196 Posts
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ytherik
199 Posts
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
On November 09 2020 06:17 Waxangel wrote: Reminder that Reynor came back from 2-3 to win the last EU finals against Clem :0 Except this time it was Reynor with the game advantage so Clem actually has the momentum here, whereas the feeling of last time was very different with essentially a 2-2 actual game score. Felling much more confident this time! | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
A Terran makes it to the finals after fighting it out on the lower bracket: Unplayable garbage. Stay predictable EU zerg fans. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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Oukka
Finland1683 Posts
E: as I write it Clem closes it out, GG! | ||
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
That said, great story arc for Clem, only needs a proper conclusion at global round. | ||
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Penev
28453 Posts
great games Clem | ||
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egrimm
Poland1199 Posts
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NotSoHappy
445 Posts
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
Congratulations Clem! Huge fucking series, total domination, best foreigner, it took more time than expected but 2020 year of Clem indeed, prophecy was right all along | ||
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Poaktree
165 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On November 09 2020 06:26 Penev wrote: finally the bugs lose! great games Clem Nostradamus level sig right there | ||
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Calliope
297 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24396 Posts
Still think he’s below Reynor and Serral as an overall player and outside of the TvZ paradigm but it’s getting bloody close! | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 09 2020 06:28 royalroadweed wrote: I guess him mixing up his standard stellar bio play gave him the unpredictability that put him over the top. Reynor said Clem was too predictable last time, so Clem played like he used to do the whole tournament before operating a drastical change in the finals! Well done!! | ||
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Waxangel
United States33196 Posts
...or did it ? | ||
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nvrs
Greece481 Posts
I have started this year watching SC2 again after 6-7 years of hiatus and boy, the game and players are simply amazing to watch. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Aeromi
France14456 Posts
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ytherik
199 Posts
As a salty Zerg I can't help but notice the matchup doesn't look too hot for Z for quite some time now. | ||
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egrimm
Poland1199 Posts
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mpmaley86
115 Posts
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Rubicant1
115 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Aeromi
France14456 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On November 09 2020 06:29 WombaT wrote: Clemmmmmm. Still think he’s below Reynor and Serral as an overall player and outside of the TvZ paradigm but it’s getting bloody close! Wait what? Clearly Clem is the GOAT. | ||
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Penev
28453 Posts
I changed it, maybe it helps | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
Global finals? | ||
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Calliope
297 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33196 Posts
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
On November 09 2020 06:36 Waxangel wrote: Clem went to the Serral school of interviews hes so happy ^_^ | ||
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Athenau
569 Posts
On November 09 2020 06:31 ytherik wrote: Congrats Clem, finally we have a top level foreign Terran! As a salty Zerg I can't help but notice the matchup doesn't look too hot for Z for quite some time now. Yeah, apparently that 45.9% TvZ winrate is totally unacceptable. | ||
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TheCheapSkate
Slovenia316 Posts
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Husyelt
United States823 Posts
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Aeromi
France14456 Posts
Smol GOAT | ||
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Pwere
Canada1556 Posts
On November 09 2020 06:35 royalroadweed wrote: It wasn't a play. He had no vision so his lurkers couldn't fire until the tanks were on top, leaving the marines untouched.Still that g2 though. Don't think I've seen a burrow play fail that badly since Moon's banelings. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
On November 09 2020 06:39 Pwere wrote: It wasn't a play. He had no vision so his lurkers couldn't fire until the tanks were on top, leaving the marines untouched. but still he burrowed them there as a trap. that kinda backfired | ||
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Waxangel
United States33196 Posts
On November 09 2020 06:38 Aeromi wrote: https://twitter.com/YoanMerlo/status/1325553092880969734 Smol GOAT he finally started using a real keyboard and it was like when goku took off all the weights actually maybe this is a bad comparison because I don't remember if goku ended up winning that fight or not | ||
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Calliope
297 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
Surely no one person could wield such power... | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 09 2020 06:42 Waxangel wrote: he finally started using a real keyboard and it was like when goku took off all the weights actually maybe this is a bad comparison because I don't remember if goku ended up winning that fight or not I think it's a good one, as far as I know he defeated Tehenshihan the first time he took off all the weights | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 09 2020 06:45 Xain0n wrote: I think it's a good one, as far as I know he defeated Tehenshihan the first time he took off all the weights Comparing Reynor to Tenshinhan seems kinda rude to Reynor. At least it's not Yamcha. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33196 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33196 Posts
On November 09 2020 06:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Comparing Reynor to Tenshinhan seems kinda rude to Reynor. At least it's not Yamcha. it's only insulting in hindsight where we know the entire arc of the series. back in the day the writer was just churning out new villains that were supposed to be the strongest one ever faced | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24396 Posts
On November 09 2020 06:42 Waxangel wrote: he finally started using a real keyboard and it was like when goku took off all the weights actually maybe this is a bad comparison because I don't remember if goku ended up winning that fight or not I’m not sure it works like that, otherwise me playing years of WC3 without a right click would have made me gosu! | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33196 Posts
On November 09 2020 07:01 WombaT wrote: I’m not sure it works like that, otherwise me playing years of WC3 without a right click would have made me gosu! you joke but there was an era where mac players were playing StarCraft 1 with a one-button mouse | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24396 Posts
On November 09 2020 07:08 Waxangel wrote: you joke but there was an era where mac players were playing StarCraft 1 with a one-button mouse I was a Mac player with one of said mice. Long time user of their products but fuck me that was a ridiculously stubborn stance of theirs for years haha | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 09 2020 06:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Comparing Reynor to Tenshinhan seems kinda rude to Reynor. At least it's not Yamcha. Well, the comparison Wax did works even if Reynor now is stronger than Tehenshinan in that tournament(he got to the semifinals there tho, it wasn't bad). | ||
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Waxangel
United States33196 Posts
 .I'm still worried about a potential Scarlett vs Maru match in the season finals | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On November 09 2020 06:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Comparing Reynor to Tenshinhan seems kinda rude to Reynor. At least it's not Yamcha. Hey at that moment in time Tenshinhan was one of the 5 strongest characters in DB. And that's not unfair to Reynor. Though Reynor is unlikely to get power crept as hard as him. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24396 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On November 09 2020 07:24 WombaT wrote: Who is the Krillen of SC2? Trap. | ||
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
I would say Brat_Ok! | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
Krillin is an actually important character I'll have you know. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 09 2020 07:38 Elentos wrote: Krillin is an actually important character I'll have you know. Hmm well ok he was somehow relevant in the Freezer saga. TLO then! | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On November 09 2020 07:40 Xain0n wrote: Hmm well ok he was somehow relevant in the Freezer saga. TLO then! Realistically if this analogy is to make any sense and Reynor is Tenshinhan the step down to Krillin can't be this huge and Krillin ends up being Heromarine. Or maybe Lambo tier. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 09 2020 07:44 Elentos wrote: Realistically if this analogy is to make any sense and Reynor is Tenshinhan the step down to Krillin can't be this huge and Krillin ends up being Heromarine. Or maybe Lambo. But Reynor is not Tehenshihan, Wax says that Clem freed himself of a burden like Goku did against Tehenshihan. Sc2's Krillin must be someone that was relevant at the start and who's still around now despite being way lower in the tier list. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24396 Posts
On November 09 2020 07:49 Xain0n wrote: But Reynor is not Tehenshihan, Wax says that Clem freed himself of a burden like Goku did against Tehenshihan. Sc2's Krillin must be someone that was relevant at the start and who's still around now despite being way lower in the tier list. Zest? | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
Zest is way too strong, currently Krillin is totally irrelevamg if compared to Goku. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
Stephano? | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
Stephano was really good at one point--Krillin was never that good. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On November 09 2020 08:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Stephano was really good at one point--Krillin was never that good. GunGFuBanDa, he was decent/somewhat good in 2015 and now is on the fringe of the scene | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Scarlett`
Canada2377 Posts
On November 09 2020 08:20 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Neeb's playstyle is infuriating, but he's handling the viper vs high templar dance quite well. Vipers have so many advantages in that dance (they fly, they're faster, abduct is an instant kill as opposed to feedback), but he's leveraging his own advantages (mothership cloak, revelation, zoning with tempests) really well. theyre invisible from mothership have longer range and tempset instakill viper if they get anywhere near theres a reason no zerg wants to play lategame right now | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On November 09 2020 08:20 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Neeb's playstyle is infuriating, but he's handling the viper vs high templar dance quite well. Vipers have so many advantages in that dance (they fly, they're faster, abduct is an instant kill as opposed to feedback), but he's leveraging his own advantages (mothership cloak, revelation, zoning with tempests) really well. Neeb showed why he was arguably the best late game protoss in 2017 in that last game. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 09 2020 08:26 Scarlett` wrote: theyre invisible from mothership have longer range and tempset instakill viper if they get anywhere near theres a reason no zerg wants to play lategame right now The European Protosses still managed to get everything abducted and their skytoss armies jumped upon most of the lategame PvZs they played from what I saw, so it's still pretty impressive from Neeb. With perfect play (and both players being equal when entering the lategame) things do look good for Protoss currently, but perfect play is hard to find. | ||
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Scarlett`
Canada2377 Posts
On November 09 2020 08:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote: The European Protosses still managed to get everything abducted and their skytoss armies jumped upon most of the lategame PvZs they played from what I saw, so it's still pretty impressive from Neeb. With perfect play (and both players being equal when entering the lategame) things do look good for Protoss currently, but perfect play is hard to find. some of them skip tempest which make the game much easier to play for Z | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On November 09 2020 08:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote: The European Protosses still managed to get everything abducted and their skytoss armies jumped upon most of the lategame PvZs they played from what I saw, so it's still pretty impressive from Neeb. With perfect play (and both players being equal when entering the lategame) things do look good for Protoss currently, but perfect play is hard to find. EU Protoss gameplay doesn't come close to the bullshit Neeb(or KR)can pull off. Showtime looks good because he can upset any Protoss in PvP but that's about it, you know 3-0s are coming when he's against T or Z. | ||
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followZeRoX
Serbia1449 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 09 2020 20:17 followZeRoX wrote: Im affraid no EU protoss is contender for top4 anymore. Showtime was solid, Skillous also, but they cant really upset topdogs. Astrea and Neeb on otherside have slightly better chances. I am not sure, Showtime can very well beat Heromarine. The most promising players in the next generation of gamers are Protoss but they might rise too late for Sc2 to have a such active(and highly funded) competitive scene; I am looking at Arrogfire, Exostriker and so on. MaxPax could make it in time but I really think next patch should help Protoss at least a little! | ||
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mpmaley86
115 Posts
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followZeRoX
Serbia1449 Posts
On November 09 2020 23:31 Xain0n wrote: I am not sure, Showtime can very well beat Heromarine. The most promising players in the next generation of gamers are Protoss but they might rise too late for Sc2 to have a such active(and highly funded) competitive scene; I am looking at Arrogfire, Exostriker and so on. MaxPax could make it in time but I really think next patch should help Protoss at least a little! I agree completely but I was talking about this DH (Winter). It seemed like Showtime is off, Skillous had good start and overall performed well but lacked some tweeks to compete for top4. I dont know wheather protoss youngsters will arrive in time to contest in sc2 because its future is doubtful but this season protoss had the most representstives but no one shined. | ||
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