|
Maru/TY group only interesting because it has Maru in it; there's no quesiton who is getting out. Group B though, there are 3 players any of whom could get out. Will still be fun to watch Maru play.
|
7 koreans + serral to playoffs
rip zest
|
France12941 Posts
On October 26 2018 21:07 Rodya wrote:
Maru/TY group only interesting because it has Maru in it; there's no quesiton who is getting out. Group B though, there are 3 players any of whom could get out. Will still be fun to watch Maru play.
How so?
The meta is favorable for zergs so Lambo could pull off the upset, albeit very unlikely, and Neeb has shown in the GSL that he can take a bo3 against TY (he was up 2-1) so he could beat every one in his group.
It's not too far fetched to imagine: Maru > Lambo, TY>Neeb, TY>Maru, and Neeb>Lambo+Neeb>Maru.
|
On October 26 2018 21:23 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2018 21:07 Rodya wrote:
Maru/TY group only interesting because it has Maru in it; there's no quesiton who is getting out. Group B though, there are 3 players any of whom could get out. Will still be fun to watch Maru play. How so? The meta is favorable for zergs so Lambo could pull off the upset, albeit very unlikely, and Neeb has shown in the GSL that he can take a bo3 against TY (he was up 2-1) so he could beat every one in his group. It's not too far fetched to imagine: Maru > Lambo, TY>Neeb, TY>Maru, and Neeb>Lambo+Neeb>Maru.
Your argument about neeb is way too generous. Neeb convincingly lost to TY in GSL, and got stomped by Maru in groups.
Maru and TY are just way too strong to lose to someone of Lambo's calibre. Just making Blizzcon doesn't indicate that you're a strong player these days. If you're saying that there's a physical possibility then yes that's true, but it's so small that I'm going to write it off as zero.
|
|
|
France12941 Posts
On October 26 2018 21:39 Rodya wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2018 21:23 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 21:07 Rodya wrote:
Maru/TY group only interesting because it has Maru in it; there's no quesiton who is getting out. Group B though, there are 3 players any of whom could get out. Will still be fun to watch Maru play. How so? The meta is favorable for zergs so Lambo could pull off the upset, albeit very unlikely, and Neeb has shown in the GSL that he can take a bo3 against TY (he was up 2-1) so he could beat every one in his group. It's not too far fetched to imagine: Maru > Lambo, TY>Neeb, TY>Maru, and Neeb>Lambo+Neeb>Maru. Your argument about neeb is way too generous. Neeb convincingly lost to TY in GSL, and got stomped by Maru in groups. Maru and TY are just way too strong to lose to someone of Lambo's calibre. Just making Blizzcon doesn't indicate that you're a strong player these days. If you're saying that there's a physical possibility then yes that's true, but it's so small that I'm going to write it off as zero.
How is that generous?
Neeb was up against TY 2-1, so in bo3 he would have won.
|
Also, it could be argued Neeb was broken mentally by the draw -> loss on 16-bit, and that draw wouldn't have happened if he recalled 1 sec sooner. I believe he really wasn't that far from a win.
|
On October 26 2018 21:51 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2018 21:39 Rodya wrote:On October 26 2018 21:23 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 21:07 Rodya wrote:
Maru/TY group only interesting because it has Maru in it; there's no quesiton who is getting out. Group B though, there are 3 players any of whom could get out. Will still be fun to watch Maru play. How so? The meta is favorable for zergs so Lambo could pull off the upset, albeit very unlikely, and Neeb has shown in the GSL that he can take a bo3 against TY (he was up 2-1) so he could beat every one in his group. It's not too far fetched to imagine: Maru > Lambo, TY>Neeb, TY>Maru, and Neeb>Lambo+Neeb>Maru. Your argument about neeb is way too generous. Neeb convincingly lost to TY in GSL, and got stomped by Maru in groups. Maru and TY are just way too strong to lose to someone of Lambo's calibre. Just making Blizzcon doesn't indicate that you're a strong player these days. If you're saying that there's a physical possibility then yes that's true, but it's so small that I'm going to write it off as zero. How is that generous? Neeb was up against TY 2-1, so in bo3 he would have won.
Against TY. That doesn't mean he can beat Maru.
|
On October 26 2018 21:51 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2018 21:39 Rodya wrote:On October 26 2018 21:23 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 21:07 Rodya wrote:
Maru/TY group only interesting because it has Maru in it; there's no quesiton who is getting out. Group B though, there are 3 players any of whom could get out. Will still be fun to watch Maru play. How so? The meta is favorable for zergs so Lambo could pull off the upset, albeit very unlikely, and Neeb has shown in the GSL that he can take a bo3 against TY (he was up 2-1) so he could beat every one in his group. It's not too far fetched to imagine: Maru > Lambo, TY>Neeb, TY>Maru, and Neeb>Lambo+Neeb>Maru. Your argument about neeb is way too generous. Neeb convincingly lost to TY in GSL, and got stomped by Maru in groups. Maru and TY are just way too strong to lose to someone of Lambo's calibre. Just making Blizzcon doesn't indicate that you're a strong player these days. If you're saying that there's a physical possibility then yes that's true, but it's so small that I'm going to write it off as zero. How is that generous? Neeb was up against TY 2-1, so in bo3 he would have won.
Zest went up 2-0 against TY, and even BEAT him in the bo7. Against Maru he lost the most one-sided final in the last 7 years of GSL. Neeb also got rolled by Maru in groups while looking decent against TY. So clearly there's a difference in skill between those two terrans
But even then, Neeb has been in NA for about 3 months(?). That basically means no good terrain practice. In GSL he was actually practicing with TY and other korean terrans for a while.
|
Maru and TY 
|
France12941 Posts
On October 26 2018 22:13 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2018 21:51 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 21:39 Rodya wrote:On October 26 2018 21:23 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 21:07 Rodya wrote:
Maru/TY group only interesting because it has Maru in it; there's no quesiton who is getting out. Group B though, there are 3 players any of whom could get out. Will still be fun to watch Maru play. How so? The meta is favorable for zergs so Lambo could pull off the upset, albeit very unlikely, and Neeb has shown in the GSL that he can take a bo3 against TY (he was up 2-1) so he could beat every one in his group. It's not too far fetched to imagine: Maru > Lambo, TY>Neeb, TY>Maru, and Neeb>Lambo+Neeb>Maru. Your argument about neeb is way too generous. Neeb convincingly lost to TY in GSL, and got stomped by Maru in groups. Maru and TY are just way too strong to lose to someone of Lambo's calibre. Just making Blizzcon doesn't indicate that you're a strong player these days. If you're saying that there's a physical possibility then yes that's true, but it's so small that I'm going to write it off as zero. How is that generous? Neeb was up against TY 2-1, so in bo3 he would have won. Against TY. That doesn't mean he can beat Maru.
Yeah, but if he can beat a player of TY caliber he can beat Maru, who recently got stomped by sOs.
I'd still favour Maru and TY in this group but I'm not utterly confident.
About the TY vs Maru argument, TY is in a bad mental state vs Zest, and when Maru stomped Neeb in the group stages, the cheeses that Maru pulled off weren't yet figured out. Neeb is doing better in PvT nowadays.
|
On October 26 2018 22:20 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2018 22:13 Elentos wrote:On October 26 2018 21:51 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 21:39 Rodya wrote:On October 26 2018 21:23 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 21:07 Rodya wrote:
Maru/TY group only interesting because it has Maru in it; there's no quesiton who is getting out. Group B though, there are 3 players any of whom could get out. Will still be fun to watch Maru play. How so? The meta is favorable for zergs so Lambo could pull off the upset, albeit very unlikely, and Neeb has shown in the GSL that he can take a bo3 against TY (he was up 2-1) so he could beat every one in his group. It's not too far fetched to imagine: Maru > Lambo, TY>Neeb, TY>Maru, and Neeb>Lambo+Neeb>Maru. Your argument about neeb is way too generous. Neeb convincingly lost to TY in GSL, and got stomped by Maru in groups. Maru and TY are just way too strong to lose to someone of Lambo's calibre. Just making Blizzcon doesn't indicate that you're a strong player these days. If you're saying that there's a physical possibility then yes that's true, but it's so small that I'm going to write it off as zero. How is that generous? Neeb was up against TY 2-1, so in bo3 he would have won. Against TY. That doesn't mean he can beat Maru. Yeah, but if he can beat a player of TY caliber he can beat Maru, who recently got stomped by sOs. I'd still favour Maru and TY in this group but I'm not utterly confident. About the TY vs Maru argument, TY is in a bad mental state vs Zest, and when Maru stomped Neeb in the group stages, the cheeses that Maru pulled off weren't yet figured out. Neeb is doing better in PvT nowadays.
Back then Neeb was in Korea. His level of practice was much higher. One of the reasons he did so well vs TY was because he practiced a lot with TY for earlier rounds. But now he's spent a few months with the strongest practice available to him being, with all due respect, tiers below TY. Let alone Maru.
|
On October 26 2018 22:20 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2018 22:13 Elentos wrote:On October 26 2018 21:51 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 21:39 Rodya wrote:On October 26 2018 21:23 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 21:07 Rodya wrote:
Maru/TY group only interesting because it has Maru in it; there's no quesiton who is getting out. Group B though, there are 3 players any of whom could get out. Will still be fun to watch Maru play. How so? The meta is favorable for zergs so Lambo could pull off the upset, albeit very unlikely, and Neeb has shown in the GSL that he can take a bo3 against TY (he was up 2-1) so he could beat every one in his group. It's not too far fetched to imagine: Maru > Lambo, TY>Neeb, TY>Maru, and Neeb>Lambo+Neeb>Maru. Your argument about neeb is way too generous. Neeb convincingly lost to TY in GSL, and got stomped by Maru in groups. Maru and TY are just way too strong to lose to someone of Lambo's calibre. Just making Blizzcon doesn't indicate that you're a strong player these days. If you're saying that there's a physical possibility then yes that's true, but it's so small that I'm going to write it off as zero. How is that generous? Neeb was up against TY 2-1, so in bo3 he would have won. Against TY. That doesn't mean he can beat Maru. Neeb is doing better in PvT nowadays.
As much as I'd like to believe that, it doesn't seem reasonable. You can't go from living/practicing with TY/SpeCial/other korean terrans, to playing on NA/EU, and get better in the matchup.
And I think you underestimate the difference between Maru and TY. Classic also beat TY in season 2, only to lose 4-1 to Maru. TY may have choked a bit against Zest, but that doesn't make up for how one-sided that final was. TY also seemed reliant on the proxy meta to some extent.
|
On October 26 2018 22:28 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2018 22:20 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 22:13 Elentos wrote:On October 26 2018 21:51 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 21:39 Rodya wrote:On October 26 2018 21:23 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 21:07 Rodya wrote:
Maru/TY group only interesting because it has Maru in it; there's no quesiton who is getting out. Group B though, there are 3 players any of whom could get out. Will still be fun to watch Maru play. How so? The meta is favorable for zergs so Lambo could pull off the upset, albeit very unlikely, and Neeb has shown in the GSL that he can take a bo3 against TY (he was up 2-1) so he could beat every one in his group. It's not too far fetched to imagine: Maru > Lambo, TY>Neeb, TY>Maru, and Neeb>Lambo+Neeb>Maru. Your argument about neeb is way too generous. Neeb convincingly lost to TY in GSL, and got stomped by Maru in groups. Maru and TY are just way too strong to lose to someone of Lambo's calibre. Just making Blizzcon doesn't indicate that you're a strong player these days. If you're saying that there's a physical possibility then yes that's true, but it's so small that I'm going to write it off as zero. How is that generous? Neeb was up against TY 2-1, so in bo3 he would have won. Against TY. That doesn't mean he can beat Maru. Neeb is doing better in PvT nowadays. As much as I'd like to believe that, it doesn't seem reasonable. You can't go from living/practicing with TY/SpeCial/other korean terrans, to playing on NA/EU, and get better in the matchup. And I think you underestimate the difference between Maru and TY. Classic also beat TY in season 2, only to lose 4-1 to Maru. TY may have choked a bit against Zest, but that doesn't make up for how one-sided that final was. TY also seemed more reliant on the proxy meta.
TY and Maru may be even in TvT (maybe TY even has a slight advantage if they play standard, who knows), but Maru is just stronger in the non-mirrors. Especially against Protoss.
|
On October 26 2018 22:30 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2018 22:28 Fango wrote:On October 26 2018 22:20 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 22:13 Elentos wrote:On October 26 2018 21:51 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 21:39 Rodya wrote:On October 26 2018 21:23 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 21:07 Rodya wrote:
Maru/TY group only interesting because it has Maru in it; there's no quesiton who is getting out. Group B though, there are 3 players any of whom could get out. Will still be fun to watch Maru play. How so? The meta is favorable for zergs so Lambo could pull off the upset, albeit very unlikely, and Neeb has shown in the GSL that he can take a bo3 against TY (he was up 2-1) so he could beat every one in his group. It's not too far fetched to imagine: Maru > Lambo, TY>Neeb, TY>Maru, and Neeb>Lambo+Neeb>Maru. Your argument about neeb is way too generous. Neeb convincingly lost to TY in GSL, and got stomped by Maru in groups. Maru and TY are just way too strong to lose to someone of Lambo's calibre. Just making Blizzcon doesn't indicate that you're a strong player these days. If you're saying that there's a physical possibility then yes that's true, but it's so small that I'm going to write it off as zero. How is that generous? Neeb was up against TY 2-1, so in bo3 he would have won. Against TY. That doesn't mean he can beat Maru. Neeb is doing better in PvT nowadays. As much as I'd like to believe that, it doesn't seem reasonable. You can't go from living/practicing with TY/SpeCial/other korean terrans, to playing on NA/EU, and get better in the matchup. And I think you underestimate the difference between Maru and TY. Classic also beat TY in season 2, only to lose 4-1 to Maru. TY may have choked a bit against Zest, but that doesn't make up for how one-sided that final was. TY also seemed more reliant on the proxy meta. TY and Maru may be even in TvT (maybe TY even has a slight advantage if they play standard, who knows), but Maru is just stronger in the non-mirrors. Especially against Protoss.
Yeah I think they're close enough in TvT for either to win. But Maru is still better in my eyes. I really think had he not gone for proxies every game he'd have won that final 4-1 or 4-2. He was better in more areas of the game.
|
Maru's loss in ST 2 is not relevant. Anyone who has closely followed the Korean scene knows this: Maru does not care about ST (he said it before the first ST), he is focused on GSL and Blizzcon.
And yea, I forgot that TY and Neeb were practice partners during S3, which would have worked in the underdogs' benefit.
|
2h to Blizzcon and only 5 pages of guesscrafting about players form and priorities?!
|
On October 26 2018 22:39 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2018 22:30 Elentos wrote:On October 26 2018 22:28 Fango wrote:On October 26 2018 22:20 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 22:13 Elentos wrote:On October 26 2018 21:51 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 21:39 Rodya wrote:On October 26 2018 21:23 Poopi wrote:On October 26 2018 21:07 Rodya wrote:
Maru/TY group only interesting because it has Maru in it; there's no quesiton who is getting out. Group B though, there are 3 players any of whom could get out. Will still be fun to watch Maru play. How so? The meta is favorable for zergs so Lambo could pull off the upset, albeit very unlikely, and Neeb has shown in the GSL that he can take a bo3 against TY (he was up 2-1) so he could beat every one in his group. It's not too far fetched to imagine: Maru > Lambo, TY>Neeb, TY>Maru, and Neeb>Lambo+Neeb>Maru. Your argument about neeb is way too generous. Neeb convincingly lost to TY in GSL, and got stomped by Maru in groups. Maru and TY are just way too strong to lose to someone of Lambo's calibre. Just making Blizzcon doesn't indicate that you're a strong player these days. If you're saying that there's a physical possibility then yes that's true, but it's so small that I'm going to write it off as zero. How is that generous? Neeb was up against TY 2-1, so in bo3 he would have won. Against TY. That doesn't mean he can beat Maru. Neeb is doing better in PvT nowadays. As much as I'd like to believe that, it doesn't seem reasonable. You can't go from living/practicing with TY/SpeCial/other korean terrans, to playing on NA/EU, and get better in the matchup. And I think you underestimate the difference between Maru and TY. Classic also beat TY in season 2, only to lose 4-1 to Maru. TY may have choked a bit against Zest, but that doesn't make up for how one-sided that final was. TY also seemed more reliant on the proxy meta. TY and Maru may be even in TvT (maybe TY even has a slight advantage if they play standard, who knows), but Maru is just stronger in the non-mirrors. Especially against Protoss. Yeah I think they're close enough in TvT for either to win. But Maru is still better in my eyes. I really think had he not gone for proxies every game he'd have won that final 4-1 or 4-2. He was better in more areas of the game.
I don't think so to be honest. His early/early mid-game was a wreck in the 2 games he didn't proxy, too. And the early advantages is what TY used to get his 3 wins.
Also don't forget Maru got a 100% build-order win with proxy reactor cyclones vs 1 rax expand but did no damage at all. It's not just the build choices that hurt Maru.
|
On October 26 2018 23:03 Ej_ wrote:
2h to Blizzcon and only 5 pages of guesscrafting about players form and priorities?!
On the bright side, I finished the new Assassin's Creed game just in time for Blizzcon. So now I can properly focus on that.
|
I really hope Serral does survive the group stage. I expect
A: Maru, TY
B: Serral, Zest
May the overperformance of sOs at Blizzcon stop today.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/CK65kfj.png)
