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On March 24 2018 22:20 AzAlexZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 21:45 Shuffleblade wrote:
Just watched the twitch vod since the semifinals was 5 AM for me. This match had a lot of the best games I've seen in a long time, it was amazing. TvZ is in a really great place in terms of how entertaining it is for spectators. Please let Maru take his triple crown, that would make me so happy! Maru is a god =D I thought Triple crown is for winning a premier tournament in KR, NA and EU, I think you mean Triple Premier Starleague wins (AKA at least a win in one GSL, one OSL and one SSL), which is a title ONLY POSSIBLE for Maru since the only other SC2 OSL Winner Rain is retired. Unless OSL return back to SC2
Inno is GSL, SSL and VSL winner
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Despite my username, I was rooting for Dark because Maru has been winning too much and I love the way Dark drinks from a straw.
But I thought Darks micro was pretty bad in alot of cases, he lost alot of banelings needlessly and their cost adds up. Also was hoping to see him do more drop play.
Maru played pretty flawlessly to be honest.
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^ I was sad when they didn't translate Maru's answer to what his thoughts on his performance were, Artosis was like "watch him say 40%", haha.
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well one record for sOO still stands as the only zerg to make it to the GSL finals in Legacy of the void. Also what if Maru is the only Terran that understands the power of Ravens and knows how to get to the spot were ravens rule over all. sooooon we shall have AfreecaTVT era and we shall be gifted with raven vs raven TV. But jokes aside well done by Maru and having a shot at the rarest of triple crowns. May the power of Ravens guide him to victory for a much better triple Korean Crown than inno !!
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On March 24 2018 23:29 juicyjames wrote:
Was this recommended?
Games 1 and 5 were excellent
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Catching on this- I like that with the captions on, Maru is referred to as Morrow.
Wow, that game1, what a great start to the series!
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On March 24 2018 17:46 Ej_ wrote:I'm glad Maru could display the heights of his skill by winning 60 workers down, truly the raven and ghost micro was incredible, what a player  . I wish him good luck in the finals vs the Protoss player Stats and in all next iterations of the game!
That game was insanity! "Ok, he's dead... how is he winning it?"
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On March 25 2018 04:12 Fran_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 17:46 Ej_ wrote:I'm glad Maru could display the heights of his skill by winning 60 workers down, truly the raven and ghost micro was incredible, what a player . I wish him good luck in the finals vs the Protoss player Stats and in all next iterations of the game! That game was insanity! "Ok, he's dead... how is he winning it?"
Ejmill strikes again
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France12875 Posts
On March 25 2018 04:12 Fran_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 17:46 Ej_ wrote:I'm glad Maru could display the heights of his skill by winning 60 workers down, truly the raven and ghost micro was incredible, what a player . I wish him good luck in the finals vs the Protoss player Stats and in all next iterations of the game! That game was insanity! "Ok, he's dead... how is he winning it?"
He was way ahead in army so even tho the map is big it was easy at that point
The guy you are quoting is a low mmr zerg trolling / being sarcastic tho
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On March 24 2018 15:15 yangluphil wrote:
Game is over. But let's pretend it's an epic game 10 minutes later.
To be fair, good move from Maru for the hidden base this game.
Gotta love these 30 minutes games that are over by 10 minutes mark. So easy to call yet so epic and 'insane'. False tension is good to feast on, pretensively I guess.
If anything, Dark vs Inno last season was a much better series. Terran fans don't see that the complain here is not due to 'a terran won', which most fans are and should be perfectly ok with.
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On March 25 2018 07:35 yangluphil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2018 15:15 yangluphil wrote:
Game is over. But let's pretend it's an epic game 10 minutes later.
To be fair, good move from Maru for the hidden base this game. Gotta love these 30 minutes games that are over by 10 minutes mark. So easy to call yet so epic and 'insane'. False tension is good to feast on, pretensively I guess. If anything, Dark vs Inno last season was a much better series. Terran fans don't see that the complain here is not due to 'a terran won', which most fans are and should be perfectly ok with.
Why are you replying to yourself?
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On March 25 2018 07:19 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2018 04:12 Fran_ wrote:On March 24 2018 17:46 Ej_ wrote:I'm glad Maru could display the heights of his skill by winning 60 workers down, truly the raven and ghost micro was incredible, what a player . I wish him good luck in the finals vs the Protoss player Stats and in all next iterations of the game! That game was insanity! "Ok, he's dead... how is he winning it?" He was way ahead in army so even tho the map is big it was easy at that point The guy you are quoting is a low mmr zerg trolling / being sarcastic tho
Fair enough. I was referring to map 1 which really impressed me.
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On March 25 2018 07:44 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2018 07:35 yangluphil wrote:On March 24 2018 15:15 yangluphil wrote:
Game is over. But let's pretend it's an epic game 10 minutes later.
To be fair, good move from Maru for the hidden base this game. Gotta love these 30 minutes games that are over by 10 minutes mark. So easy to call yet so epic and 'insane'. False tension is good to feast on, pretensively I guess. If anything, Dark vs Inno last season was a much better series. Terran fans don't see that the complain here is not due to 'a terran won', which most fans are and should be perfectly ok with. Why are you replying to yourself?
I thought that's a quote button instead of reply button? Did I read it wrong?
I saw many people think the games are incredible, which sickens me. Game was over as I and many people called here at 10 minutes mark (this particular post was for G6). Even tasteless repeatedly said there's no way for Dark to win despite having 11k bank and 2/3 of the map, and the game having false tension. It takes a REALLY one sided game for a caster to say something like this. All it took for Maru was patience and not suiciding his entire army. If you are not blind and know the game to some extent, you know this.
So that was why I'm quoting myself, my friend.
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It's just sad that such an amazing series is being overshadowed by whining and balance complaints.
Great, great, great series.. and for those who said that Maru wouldn't have beaten Dark on macro games.. wink wink
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On March 25 2018 07:55 yangluphil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2018 07:44 pvsnp wrote:On March 25 2018 07:35 yangluphil wrote:On March 24 2018 15:15 yangluphil wrote:
Game is over. But let's pretend it's an epic game 10 minutes later.
To be fair, good move from Maru for the hidden base this game. Gotta love these 30 minutes games that are over by 10 minutes mark. So easy to call yet so epic and 'insane'. False tension is good to feast on, pretensively I guess. If anything, Dark vs Inno last season was a much better series. Terran fans don't see that the complain here is not due to 'a terran won', which most fans are and should be perfectly ok with. Why are you replying to yourself? I thought that's a quote button instead of reply button? Did I read it wrong? I saw many people think the games are incredible, which sickens me. Game was over as I and many people called here at 10 minutes mark (this particular post was for G6). Even tasteless repeatedly said there's no way for Dark to win despite having 11k bank and 2/3 of the map, and the game having false tension. It takes a REALLY one sided game for a caster to say something like this. All it took for Maru was patience and not suiciding his entire army. If you are not blind and know the game to some extent, you know this. So that was why I'm quoting myself, my friend.
Game 6 was far from over 10 minutes in, not that it matters, using tasteless expert knowledge of SC2 as your source says it all.
It sickens you that fans of starcraft liked the games? You are a sad person and I really hope you learn to not be sick when other people enjoy something you don't. Try to be happy for them instead, to each their own, I loved the games but that doesn't mean I don't respect the opinion of others that did not enjoy them or thought they were low quality.
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On March 25 2018 08:07 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2018 07:55 yangluphil wrote:On March 25 2018 07:44 pvsnp wrote:On March 25 2018 07:35 yangluphil wrote:On March 24 2018 15:15 yangluphil wrote:
Game is over. But let's pretend it's an epic game 10 minutes later.
To be fair, good move from Maru for the hidden base this game. Gotta love these 30 minutes games that are over by 10 minutes mark. So easy to call yet so epic and 'insane'. False tension is good to feast on, pretensively I guess. If anything, Dark vs Inno last season was a much better series. Terran fans don't see that the complain here is not due to 'a terran won', which most fans are and should be perfectly ok with. Why are you replying to yourself? I thought that's a quote button instead of reply button? Did I read it wrong? I saw many people think the games are incredible, which sickens me. Game was over as I and many people called here at 10 minutes mark (this particular post was for G6). Even tasteless repeatedly said there's no way for Dark to win despite having 11k bank and 2/3 of the map, and the game having false tension. It takes a REALLY one sided game for a caster to say something like this. All it took for Maru was patience and not suiciding his entire army. If you are not blind and know the game to some extent, you know this. So that was why I'm quoting myself, my friend. Game 6 was far from over 10 minutes in, not that it matters, using tasteless expert knowledge of SC2 as your source says it all. It sickens you that fans of starcraft liked the games? You are a sad person and I really hope you learn to not be sick when other people enjoy something you don't. Try to be happy for them instead, to each their own, I loved the games but that doesn't mean I don't respect the opinion of others that did not enjoy them or thought they were low quality.
Tasteless as my source of knowledge? That's a twist. I quoted my own call there. If you go back the earlier in this game thread and WESG's, you will find in-game calls for other games too.
Yes it sickens me if a bad series is held high regard. No it does not sicken me when fans like games in general. You can misconstruct my point by childish word play all you want, I'm glad you loved the games. Calling me a sad person all you want, I'm only interested in arguments not personal attacks. If you think it is wrong in general to argue on game state after a series, then ok we disagree about that.
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On March 25 2018 08:18 yangluphil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2018 08:07 Shuffleblade wrote:On March 25 2018 07:55 yangluphil wrote:On March 25 2018 07:44 pvsnp wrote:On March 25 2018 07:35 yangluphil wrote:On March 24 2018 15:15 yangluphil wrote:
Game is over. But let's pretend it's an epic game 10 minutes later.
To be fair, good move from Maru for the hidden base this game. Gotta love these 30 minutes games that are over by 10 minutes mark. So easy to call yet so epic and 'insane'. False tension is good to feast on, pretensively I guess. If anything, Dark vs Inno last season was a much better series. Terran fans don't see that the complain here is not due to 'a terran won', which most fans are and should be perfectly ok with. Why are you replying to yourself? I thought that's a quote button instead of reply button? Did I read it wrong? I saw many people think the games are incredible, which sickens me. Game was over as I and many people called here at 10 minutes mark (this particular post was for G6). Even tasteless repeatedly said there's no way for Dark to win despite having 11k bank and 2/3 of the map, and the game having false tension. It takes a REALLY one sided game for a caster to say something like this. All it took for Maru was patience and not suiciding his entire army. If you are not blind and know the game to some extent, you know this. So that was why I'm quoting myself, my friend. Game 6 was far from over 10 minutes in, not that it matters, using tasteless expert knowledge of SC2 as your source says it all. It sickens you that fans of starcraft liked the games? You are a sad person and I really hope you learn to not be sick when other people enjoy something you don't. Try to be happy for them instead, to each their own, I loved the games but that doesn't mean I don't respect the opinion of others that did not enjoy them or thought they were low quality. Tasteless as my source of knowledge? That's a twist. I quoted my own call there. If you go back the earlier in this game thread and WESG's, you will find in-game calls for other games too. Yes it sickens me if a bad series is held high regard. No it does not sicken me when fans like games in general. You can misconstruct my point by childish word play all you want, I'm glad you loved the games. Calling me a sad person all you want, I'm only interested in arguments not personal attacks. If you think it is wrong in general to argue on game state after a series, then ok we disagree about that.
Argue game state by all means, I have yet to see you do that here though. The "quality" of a game(or game series) is all you have been arguing about the last couple of pages. Earlier I see quite a bit of balance whine, something that has nothing to do with one semifinals and surely does not belong here. When your balance whine fail you turn to whining about game quality, you obviously are not looking to "argue" anything here only push your subjective opinions onto others.
"Game quality" is subjective, there are no criteria as to what series should be "held in high regard". Some viewers consider mind games or build order centric series of high quality, others prefer micro intense, harass centric, macro heavy or varied ones best.
This is why when you say that it sickens you that other fans consider this series high quality it basically translates into this:
"I don't like this series, I don't consider it good, other people do, I don't like when other people like things that I don't like, I want everyone to like what I like".
You go on these forums and try to convince others that while they are of course allowed to "enjoy" these games, they need to realize they aren't "really" good since you don't think they are good. The fact that you think this qualifies as "arguing" just makes it sadder.
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On March 25 2018 08:01 djack0666 wrote:
It's just sad that such an amazing series is being overshadowed by whining and balance complaints.
Great, great, great series.. and for those who said that Maru wouldn't have beaten Dark on macro games.. wink wink
Yeah, I haven't seen the complaining volume dial turned up this high in a while. Maybe since tankivacs? Though I don't even remember that being so charged. Honestly, I can understand why people as spectators would want Blizzard to find a different way to balance lategame terran (which, as far as I can tell, is mostly viable right now because of unintended gameplay), but I can't quite wrap my head around this level of upset. Literally one terran in the world right now is looking unbelievably good and the sight of it seems to be giving a lot of people rabies. Is it the historical (but not current) terran dominance?
http://aligulac.com/periods/
I'm even reading about comparisons to the old turtle mech days... I guess people don't quite remember how different those were, but I remember INnoVation's games back then turning into these really slow methodical pushes that took forever and looked nearly invincible (unless ByuL got mad enough to put INnoVation on tilt). The closest we got to anything even remotely resembling that in this series was game 6, and despite Maru taking a sneaky early expansion, that game had a lot of action to it, even if Maru was ahead. The old slow push style was just... not really there as far as I could see. And that game only could work out how it did because of that crazy early game economy boost. Which was a risk, not a playstyle.
So this leads me to think that some people are just having a radically different perception of these games and reading some stuff into them that might be more based on their personal feelings than anything else. Which is cool, we all do that. I'm doing it too: I like these games even more than I ordinarily would because I'm a fan of Maru and glad he's in form again. I think the key is to recognise when you're doing it and try to bring something to the discussion that leaves some room for different viewpoints. Having been following SC2 discussions since the beta, I'm not going to pretend like I have some high expectation that everyone's gonna do that. But I think it'd be nice.
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What impresses me most about Maru's TvZ play recently is his ability to take and hold bases that Terran are not traditionally supposed to be able to get. Maybe we've so rarely seen that in the past is because Terran was traditionally disadvantaged in the late game so people were playing a different style and composition which made that nigh impossible.
When Blizzard inevitably nerfs ravens, I'd like their nerf to be to their speed, not their anti-armor missile. The reason the unit is so powerful is because it brings aoe damage without any real positional requirement because they fly and are decently fast. Terran needs some of that to actually stand toe to toe with late game Zerg, especially with the ability to remax instantly, but it is somewhat too good at that making it hard to play around them.
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Tbh I'm far from convinced that Blizzard is actually going to nerf Ravens, at least in any significant capacity. Blizzard applies nerfs first and foremost based on the imbalance of a matchup, and the TvZ winrates are very close to 50%, as they have been for months. Professional representation of Terran in general and Ravens in particular is......well, only Maru.
Blizzard will also nerf something if there's significant community outcry–refer to 4.0 creating BL/Infestor and Disruptor drops–but the community outcry already happened with Ravens, and the backlash of community outcry against that was enough to stop the proposed nerf. Though a minority of the community continues to whine, the amount of attention that whine receives has decreased substantially–reasonable people get sick of the same whine if repeated incessantly.
As an example of what I'm talking about, Skytoss was very obviously Protoss-favored for about a year (from 3.8 to 4.0), but despite continuous Zerg whine, Blizzard never significantly nerfed Skytoss because the winrates remained balanced and there wasn't enough outrage in the community. (As an aside, I do find it rather ironic that as soon as Zerg finally managed to counter Skytoss, they now have to deal with Skyterran)
Unless something big happens to change the status quo, I can't see them going forward with a Raven nerf. Despite what the whiners claim about the sky falling, Ravens have enough exploitable weaknesses that I doubt the winrates will change drastically. Likewise, the whine about a new strategy is always the worst when that strategy first appears; as time goes on people figure out counters and it simply becomes part of the new meta. Blizzard might throw the whiners a bone by applying some token nerf though (maybe AAM energy increase or something).
TL;DR I'll believe a Raven nerf is happening once I read the community update that says it is. Until then people are just fantasizing about what they want, not what actually is.
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EPT
