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On August 13 2015 22:14 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2015 22:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 13 2015 22:03 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 21:55 MiniFotToss wrote:On August 13 2015 21:49 Nezgar wrote:On August 13 2015 21:45 Wrathsc2 wrote:On August 13 2015 21:44 Nezgar wrote:On August 13 2015 21:39 neptunusfisk wrote:
but also a great day of balance whine
it's like, where have you been the last five years, protoss lategame has always been strong and terran has always tried to multitask in midgame
get over it already Pretty much my point... When a Terran is winning in the midgame, Terran fans proclaim the players as a god. When a Protoss is winning in the lategame, Terran fans whine about Protoss being OP and "protossed" Doesn't help that Terran fans seem to be the most vocal part of the community probably because the way terran wins compared to protoss. When a terran wins its through exciting drops and out multitask. When toss wins its because of a big engagnement where they landed storms. And how the fuck are you supposed to do "exciting drops and multitask" when you don't have those tools as Protoss? And your army is weaker in small chunks compared to stimmed bio with medivac support? Defending that while getting to a high tech and building the right composition while keeping your bases alive and picking the right fight is how Protoss wins. Both require different sets of skills. But Terran fans don't understand that last bit. Terran drops = god Protoss doesn't drop = protossed It's an incredibly one-sided narrative and whenever a Protoss fan tries to say anything about it there are 10 Terrans screaming and hacking down on him. Terran fans are ignorant that's why, really shouldn't bother with them, they are always the most pitiful race "WITH THE MOST MICRO" that has no good tech and always complains "they are so ignorant, lets ignore them" you just held a mirror in front of yourself. Terran is the most mechanical race(with all the multi-harass, macro while micro), that is why it SEEMS that terran has to give more for the win. Protoss does a lot "hidden" since its a lot of decisions and composition - we don't see that, so it SEEMS Protoss is easy, just warp in the right units and move over the opponent. Zerg is a lot of perfect scouting, matching the composition and macroing like hell, Very much simplified and not 100% accurate I know, basically because of course every race is also about micro and macro and composition. However, because you SEE what the terran does all the times, it seems Terran has it harder to the neutral viewers (and all Terrans ofc) It doesn't matter if it is just as hard, but it matters if it is exciting to watch. This isn't about balance, it's about unit interactions and viable playstyles for each race. well I think it to be more exciting to watch if a player has to mechanically work harder for the win (multiprompt attacks, harass, micro, multitask...) and not sits at home and thinks about his unit comp, while defending. So maybe "excitement" while watching is different to each other, to me, constant harassement and trading and getting ahead by many small skirmirshes is what I prefer watching, not getting ahead all game and losing in 2 secs then. So for me, it would be fine if every race plays like Terran :D but that is only one mans opinion. Well I think Zerg is fine as well, but i never got "warm" with toss. Lazers and vanishing units don't do the same to me as BLOOD from Zerglings or Humans :D
Nah i agree with you and i also think this is true for a lot of people. I was just saying that i don't think this is much about balance ("huh protoss so ez!!" this isn't true), it's more about the general race design ("huh protoss is boring to watch")
Lots of action is what sc2 should be about. It would be even ok if one race turtles a little bit more, WHEN the actual engagements would be exciting to watch AND there still would be harass potential for both sides.
So yeah, matches which include protoss are simply less interesting on average (i think this is true, would be interesting to look at the TL top games of the year and look how many terran/zerg/protoss games are in there)
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On August 13 2015 22:20 RaFox17 wrote:I love Hyun but i don´t think he can beat Classic so GO ROGUE 
Yep, rooting for Sexy Boy zerg to advance 2nd.
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your Country52797 Posts
Hmm, I think Rogue could have killed quite a few workers at the gold from behind the mineral line if he was careful about it.
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On August 13 2015 22:18 MiniFotToss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2015 22:15 royalroadweed wrote:On August 13 2015 22:12 MiniFotToss wrote:On August 13 2015 22:09 royalroadweed wrote:On August 13 2015 22:08 MiniFotToss wrote:On August 13 2015 22:01 royalroadweed wrote:On August 13 2015 21:48 MiniFotToss wrote:On August 13 2015 21:44 Nezgar wrote:On August 13 2015 21:39 neptunusfisk wrote:
but also a great day of balance whine
it's like, where have you been the last five years, protoss lategame has always been strong and terran has always tried to multitask in midgame
get over it already Pretty much my point... When a Terran is winning in the midgame, Terran fans proclaim the players as a god. When a Protoss is winning in the lategame, Terran fans whine about Protoss being OP and "protossed" Doesn't help that Terran fans seem to be the most vocal part of the community Because Terran players are whiney f**kers, that's why, they ALWAYS complain, even when the whole race seems to be doing well, it's so frustrating to always hear them complaining. "OH, terran has no late game, terran needs to finish midgame or they lose and gets protossed/zergs" For f**ks sake, Terran has won the most tournaments and has dominated the longest in SC2, why are terran players still whining, because they love the feeling of their race dominating and don't EVER want that feeling gone. Terran has won 29 premier tournaments in HOTS. Protoss has won 31 in HOTS. what about in WOL? Irrelevant. HA! nice try, but you're mistaken.... from what I said in my post, it is VERY relevant I've already responded to you. Discussing a different game where the races are played differently, in different metas, 3 years ago is dumb as fuck. You might as well complain about terrans wining in Brood War. You missed my point, I'm talking about how terrans are complaining and always whining despite winning most tournaments. hence "Terran has won the most tournaments and has dominated the longest in SC2" I was not disgusting any gameplay at all LOL.
And I'm saying Terrans were whining about how Classic won game 1 in HOTs in 2015.
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On August 13 2015 22:14 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2015 22:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 13 2015 22:03 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 21:55 MiniFotToss wrote:On August 13 2015 21:49 Nezgar wrote:On August 13 2015 21:45 Wrathsc2 wrote:On August 13 2015 21:44 Nezgar wrote:On August 13 2015 21:39 neptunusfisk wrote:
but also a great day of balance whine
it's like, where have you been the last five years, protoss lategame has always been strong and terran has always tried to multitask in midgame
get over it already Pretty much my point... When a Terran is winning in the midgame, Terran fans proclaim the players as a god. When a Protoss is winning in the lategame, Terran fans whine about Protoss being OP and "protossed" Doesn't help that Terran fans seem to be the most vocal part of the community probably because the way terran wins compared to protoss. When a terran wins its through exciting drops and out multitask. When toss wins its because of a big engagnement where they landed storms. And how the fuck are you supposed to do "exciting drops and multitask" when you don't have those tools as Protoss? And your army is weaker in small chunks compared to stimmed bio with medivac support? Defending that while getting to a high tech and building the right composition while keeping your bases alive and picking the right fight is how Protoss wins. Both require different sets of skills. But Terran fans don't understand that last bit. Terran drops = god Protoss doesn't drop = protossed It's an incredibly one-sided narrative and whenever a Protoss fan tries to say anything about it there are 10 Terrans screaming and hacking down on him. Terran fans are ignorant that's why, really shouldn't bother with them, they are always the most pitiful race "WITH THE MOST MICRO" that has no good tech and always complains "they are so ignorant, lets ignore them" you just held a mirror in front of yourself. Terran is the most mechanical race(with all the multi-harass, macro while micro), that is why it SEEMS that terran has to give more for the win. Protoss does a lot "hidden" since its a lot of decisions and composition - we don't see that, so it SEEMS Protoss is easy, just warp in the right units and move over the opponent. Zerg is a lot of perfect scouting, matching the composition and macroing like hell, Very much simplified and not 100% accurate I know, basically because of course every race is also about micro and macro and composition. However, because you SEE what the terran does all the times, it seems Terran has it harder to the neutral viewers (and all Terrans ofc) It doesn't matter if it is just as hard, but it matters if it is exciting to watch. This isn't about balance, it's about unit interactions and viable playstyles for each race. well I think it to be more exciting to watch if a player has to mechanically work harder for the win (multiprompt attacks, harass, micro, multitask...) and not sits at home and thinks about his unit comp, while defending. So maybe "excitement" while watching is different to each other, to me, constant harassement and trading and getting ahead by many small skirmirshes is what I prefer watching, not getting ahead all game and losing in 2 secs then. So for me, it would be fine if every race plays like Terran :D but that is only one mans opinion. Well I think Zerg is fine as well, but i never got "warm" with toss. Lazers and vanishing units don't do the same to me as BLOOD from Zerglings or Humans :D
Every pro will tell you this: defending multi pronged attacks is more difficult than executing them.
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On August 13 2015 22:17 neptunusfisk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2015 22:12 yoshi245 wrote:On August 13 2015 22:10 neptunusfisk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think sc2 is in it's best spot ever right now proscene wise. All games are exciting and everyone knows the strengths of the other races. We even have large scale meta shifts in matches without patches. It is cool. Interesting chart. I didn't realize Terran was that poorly represented in early 2014, I knew it was bad, but not that bad. Thank you, it took me many hours of liquipedia to make it.
I didn't realize it was your chart, thought you took it from somewhere.
Great work!
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On August 13 2015 22:17 royalroadweed wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2015 22:15 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 22:12 yoshi245 wrote:On August 13 2015 22:10 neptunusfisk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think sc2 is in it's best spot ever right now proscene wise. All games are exciting and everyone knows the strengths of the other races. We even have large scale meta shifts in matches without patches. It is cool. Interesting chart. I didn't realize Terran was that poorly represented in early 2014, I knew it was bad, but not that bad. You already forgot GSL RO 32 where there were like 3 Terrans ? :D Recently I looked up the premier Tourney wins of 2014, which is basically all Toss besides Taeja and 1x Flash. Polt won a Rebull, I think. And Bomber won the final season of WCS AM.
I assume you mean EARLY 2014, because terrans won plenty of premier tournaments in 2014. The only race that really suffered through the whole of 2014 in terms of tournament wins was zerg.
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On August 13 2015 22:22 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2015 22:17 royalroadweed wrote:On August 13 2015 22:15 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 22:12 yoshi245 wrote:On August 13 2015 22:10 neptunusfisk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think sc2 is in it's best spot ever right now proscene wise. All games are exciting and everyone knows the strengths of the other races. We even have large scale meta shifts in matches without patches. It is cool. Interesting chart. I didn't realize Terran was that poorly represented in early 2014, I knew it was bad, but not that bad. You already forgot GSL RO 32 where there were like 3 Terrans ? :D Recently I looked up the premier Tourney wins of 2014, which is basically all Toss besides Taeja and 1x Flash. Polt won a Rebull, I think. And Bomber won the final season of WCS AM. I assume you mean EARLY 2014, because terrans won plenty of premier tournaments in 2014. The only race that really suffered through the whole of 2014 in terms of tournament wins was zerg.
Doesn't help that soO is a Kong
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On August 13 2015 22:20 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2015 22:14 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 22:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 13 2015 22:03 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 21:55 MiniFotToss wrote:On August 13 2015 21:49 Nezgar wrote:On August 13 2015 21:45 Wrathsc2 wrote:On August 13 2015 21:44 Nezgar wrote:On August 13 2015 21:39 neptunusfisk wrote:
but also a great day of balance whine
it's like, where have you been the last five years, protoss lategame has always been strong and terran has always tried to multitask in midgame
get over it already Pretty much my point... When a Terran is winning in the midgame, Terran fans proclaim the players as a god. When a Protoss is winning in the lategame, Terran fans whine about Protoss being OP and "protossed" Doesn't help that Terran fans seem to be the most vocal part of the community probably because the way terran wins compared to protoss. When a terran wins its through exciting drops and out multitask. When toss wins its because of a big engagnement where they landed storms. And how the fuck are you supposed to do "exciting drops and multitask" when you don't have those tools as Protoss? And your army is weaker in small chunks compared to stimmed bio with medivac support? Defending that while getting to a high tech and building the right composition while keeping your bases alive and picking the right fight is how Protoss wins. Both require different sets of skills. But Terran fans don't understand that last bit. Terran drops = god Protoss doesn't drop = protossed It's an incredibly one-sided narrative and whenever a Protoss fan tries to say anything about it there are 10 Terrans screaming and hacking down on him. Terran fans are ignorant that's why, really shouldn't bother with them, they are always the most pitiful race "WITH THE MOST MICRO" that has no good tech and always complains "they are so ignorant, lets ignore them" you just held a mirror in front of yourself. Terran is the most mechanical race(with all the multi-harass, macro while micro), that is why it SEEMS that terran has to give more for the win. Protoss does a lot "hidden" since its a lot of decisions and composition - we don't see that, so it SEEMS Protoss is easy, just warp in the right units and move over the opponent. Zerg is a lot of perfect scouting, matching the composition and macroing like hell, Very much simplified and not 100% accurate I know, basically because of course every race is also about micro and macro and composition. However, because you SEE what the terran does all the times, it seems Terran has it harder to the neutral viewers (and all Terrans ofc) It doesn't matter if it is just as hard, but it matters if it is exciting to watch. This isn't about balance, it's about unit interactions and viable playstyles for each race. well I think it to be more exciting to watch if a player has to mechanically work harder for the win (multiprompt attacks, harass, micro, multitask...) and not sits at home and thinks about his unit comp, while defending. So maybe "excitement" while watching is different to each other, to me, constant harassement and trading and getting ahead by many small skirmirshes is what I prefer watching, not getting ahead all game and losing in 2 secs then. So for me, it would be fine if every race plays like Terran :D but that is only one mans opinion. Well I think Zerg is fine as well, but i never got "warm" with toss. Lazers and vanishing units don't do the same to me as BLOOD from Zerglings or Humans :D Nah i agree with you and i also think this is true for a lot of people. I was just saying that i don't think this is much about balance ("huh protoss so ez!!" this isn't true), it's more about the general race design ("huh protoss is boring to watch") Lots of action is what sc2 should be about. It would be even ok if one race turtles a little bit more, WHEN the actual engagements would be exciting to watch AND there still would be harass potential for both sides. So yeah, matches which include protoss are simply less interesting on average (i think this is true, would be interesting to look at the TL top games of the year and look how many terran/zerg/protoss games are in there)
I think it's just a matter of identification. If you play a race you identify with it and you also tend to see the difficulties in it or the way builds are executed or whatever. If you don't play P then it will be harder for you to be engaged with P play.
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your Country52797 Posts
HyuN is taking pretty bad engagements, half of his corrupters weren't even firing there.
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your Country52797 Posts
On August 13 2015 22:25 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2015 22:20 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 13 2015 22:14 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 22:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 13 2015 22:03 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 21:55 MiniFotToss wrote:On August 13 2015 21:49 Nezgar wrote:On August 13 2015 21:45 Wrathsc2 wrote:On August 13 2015 21:44 Nezgar wrote:On August 13 2015 21:39 neptunusfisk wrote:
but also a great day of balance whine
it's like, where have you been the last five years, protoss lategame has always been strong and terran has always tried to multitask in midgame
get over it already Pretty much my point... When a Terran is winning in the midgame, Terran fans proclaim the players as a god. When a Protoss is winning in the lategame, Terran fans whine about Protoss being OP and "protossed" Doesn't help that Terran fans seem to be the most vocal part of the community probably because the way terran wins compared to protoss. When a terran wins its through exciting drops and out multitask. When toss wins its because of a big engagnement where they landed storms. And how the fuck are you supposed to do "exciting drops and multitask" when you don't have those tools as Protoss? And your army is weaker in small chunks compared to stimmed bio with medivac support? Defending that while getting to a high tech and building the right composition while keeping your bases alive and picking the right fight is how Protoss wins. Both require different sets of skills. But Terran fans don't understand that last bit. Terran drops = god Protoss doesn't drop = protossed It's an incredibly one-sided narrative and whenever a Protoss fan tries to say anything about it there are 10 Terrans screaming and hacking down on him. Terran fans are ignorant that's why, really shouldn't bother with them, they are always the most pitiful race "WITH THE MOST MICRO" that has no good tech and always complains "they are so ignorant, lets ignore them" you just held a mirror in front of yourself. Terran is the most mechanical race(with all the multi-harass, macro while micro), that is why it SEEMS that terran has to give more for the win. Protoss does a lot "hidden" since its a lot of decisions and composition - we don't see that, so it SEEMS Protoss is easy, just warp in the right units and move over the opponent. Zerg is a lot of perfect scouting, matching the composition and macroing like hell, Very much simplified and not 100% accurate I know, basically because of course every race is also about micro and macro and composition. However, because you SEE what the terran does all the times, it seems Terran has it harder to the neutral viewers (and all Terrans ofc) It doesn't matter if it is just as hard, but it matters if it is exciting to watch. This isn't about balance, it's about unit interactions and viable playstyles for each race. well I think it to be more exciting to watch if a player has to mechanically work harder for the win (multiprompt attacks, harass, micro, multitask...) and not sits at home and thinks about his unit comp, while defending. So maybe "excitement" while watching is different to each other, to me, constant harassement and trading and getting ahead by many small skirmirshes is what I prefer watching, not getting ahead all game and losing in 2 secs then. So for me, it would be fine if every race plays like Terran :D but that is only one mans opinion. Well I think Zerg is fine as well, but i never got "warm" with toss. Lazers and vanishing units don't do the same to me as BLOOD from Zerglings or Humans :D Nah i agree with you and i also think this is true for a lot of people. I was just saying that i don't think this is much about balance ("huh protoss so ez!!" this isn't true), it's more about the general race design ("huh protoss is boring to watch") Lots of action is what sc2 should be about. It would be even ok if one race turtles a little bit more, WHEN the actual engagements would be exciting to watch AND there still would be harass potential for both sides. So yeah, matches which include protoss are simply less interesting on average (i think this is true, would be interesting to look at the TL top games of the year and look how many terran/zerg/protoss games are in there) I think it's just a matter of identification. If you play a race you identify with it and you also tend to see the difficulties in it or the way builds are executed or whatever. If you don't play P then it will be harder for you to be engaged with P play.
I picked Protoss (in 2010) because I like lasers.
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On August 13 2015 22:21 CruelZeratul wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2015 22:14 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 22:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 13 2015 22:03 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 21:55 MiniFotToss wrote:On August 13 2015 21:49 Nezgar wrote:On August 13 2015 21:45 Wrathsc2 wrote:On August 13 2015 21:44 Nezgar wrote:On August 13 2015 21:39 neptunusfisk wrote:
but also a great day of balance whine
it's like, where have you been the last five years, protoss lategame has always been strong and terran has always tried to multitask in midgame
get over it already Pretty much my point... When a Terran is winning in the midgame, Terran fans proclaim the players as a god. When a Protoss is winning in the lategame, Terran fans whine about Protoss being OP and "protossed" Doesn't help that Terran fans seem to be the most vocal part of the community probably because the way terran wins compared to protoss. When a terran wins its through exciting drops and out multitask. When toss wins its because of a big engagnement where they landed storms. And how the fuck are you supposed to do "exciting drops and multitask" when you don't have those tools as Protoss? And your army is weaker in small chunks compared to stimmed bio with medivac support? Defending that while getting to a high tech and building the right composition while keeping your bases alive and picking the right fight is how Protoss wins. Both require different sets of skills. But Terran fans don't understand that last bit. Terran drops = god Protoss doesn't drop = protossed It's an incredibly one-sided narrative and whenever a Protoss fan tries to say anything about it there are 10 Terrans screaming and hacking down on him. Terran fans are ignorant that's why, really shouldn't bother with them, they are always the most pitiful race "WITH THE MOST MICRO" that has no good tech and always complains "they are so ignorant, lets ignore them" you just held a mirror in front of yourself. Terran is the most mechanical race(with all the multi-harass, macro while micro), that is why it SEEMS that terran has to give more for the win. Protoss does a lot "hidden" since its a lot of decisions and composition - we don't see that, so it SEEMS Protoss is easy, just warp in the right units and move over the opponent. Zerg is a lot of perfect scouting, matching the composition and macroing like hell, Very much simplified and not 100% accurate I know, basically because of course every race is also about micro and macro and composition. However, because you SEE what the terran does all the times, it seems Terran has it harder to the neutral viewers (and all Terrans ofc) It doesn't matter if it is just as hard, but it matters if it is exciting to watch. This isn't about balance, it's about unit interactions and viable playstyles for each race. well I think it to be more exciting to watch if a player has to mechanically work harder for the win (multiprompt attacks, harass, micro, multitask...) and not sits at home and thinks about his unit comp, while defending. So maybe "excitement" while watching is different to each other, to me, constant harassement and trading and getting ahead by many small skirmirshes is what I prefer watching, not getting ahead all game and losing in 2 secs then. So for me, it would be fine if every race plays like Terran :D but that is only one mans opinion. Well I think Zerg is fine as well, but i never got "warm" with toss. Lazers and vanishing units don't do the same to me as BLOOD from Zerglings or Humans :D Every pro will tell you this: defending multi pronged attacks is more difficult than executing them.
Not sure about that, but I take your opinion under consideration.
When I played Terran, avoiding being spotted, dropping, doing damage, pull out again without losing much was harder then defending on 2 fronts, but that is maybe because I started the game learning to play a greedy macro style with 3-4 army control groups and did just that until I finally had it in my blood. I was in gold league back than, getting cheesed by 30 APM Protosses while I had my 120 micro/macro APM. Once I really started to figure out the game itself and because I already had the mechanics I quickly jumped over to diamond.
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Hoping for a Classic vs. HyuN rematch 
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On August 13 2015 22:23 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2015 22:22 phagga wrote:On August 13 2015 22:17 royalroadweed wrote:On August 13 2015 22:15 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 22:12 yoshi245 wrote:On August 13 2015 22:10 neptunusfisk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think sc2 is in it's best spot ever right now proscene wise. All games are exciting and everyone knows the strengths of the other races. We even have large scale meta shifts in matches without patches. It is cool. Interesting chart. I didn't realize Terran was that poorly represented in early 2014, I knew it was bad, but not that bad. You already forgot GSL RO 32 where there were like 3 Terrans ? :D Recently I looked up the premier Tourney wins of 2014, which is basically all Toss besides Taeja and 1x Flash. Polt won a Rebull, I think. And Bomber won the final season of WCS AM. I assume you mean EARLY 2014, because terrans won plenty of premier tournaments in 2014. The only race that really suffered through the whole of 2014 in terms of tournament wins was zerg. Doesn't help that soO is a Kong
People always bring this up. And it hurts me every time.
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On August 13 2015 22:25 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2015 22:25 Heartland wrote:On August 13 2015 22:20 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 13 2015 22:14 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 22:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 13 2015 22:03 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 21:55 MiniFotToss wrote:On August 13 2015 21:49 Nezgar wrote:On August 13 2015 21:45 Wrathsc2 wrote:On August 13 2015 21:44 Nezgar wrote:
[quote]
Pretty much my point...
When a Terran is winning in the midgame, Terran fans proclaim the players as a god.
When a Protoss is winning in the lategame, Terran fans whine about Protoss being OP and "protossed"
Doesn't help that Terran fans seem to be the most vocal part of the community probably because the way terran wins compared to protoss. When a terran wins its through exciting drops and out multitask. When toss wins its because of a big engagnement where they landed storms. And how the fuck are you supposed to do "exciting drops and multitask" when you don't have those tools as Protoss? And your army is weaker in small chunks compared to stimmed bio with medivac support? Defending that while getting to a high tech and building the right composition while keeping your bases alive and picking the right fight is how Protoss wins. Both require different sets of skills. But Terran fans don't understand that last bit. Terran drops = god Protoss doesn't drop = protossed It's an incredibly one-sided narrative and whenever a Protoss fan tries to say anything about it there are 10 Terrans screaming and hacking down on him. Terran fans are ignorant that's why, really shouldn't bother with them, they are always the most pitiful race "WITH THE MOST MICRO" that has no good tech and always complains "they are so ignorant, lets ignore them" you just held a mirror in front of yourself. Terran is the most mechanical race(with all the multi-harass, macro while micro), that is why it SEEMS that terran has to give more for the win. Protoss does a lot "hidden" since its a lot of decisions and composition - we don't see that, so it SEEMS Protoss is easy, just warp in the right units and move over the opponent. Zerg is a lot of perfect scouting, matching the composition and macroing like hell, Very much simplified and not 100% accurate I know, basically because of course every race is also about micro and macro and composition. However, because you SEE what the terran does all the times, it seems Terran has it harder to the neutral viewers (and all Terrans ofc) It doesn't matter if it is just as hard, but it matters if it is exciting to watch. This isn't about balance, it's about unit interactions and viable playstyles for each race. well I think it to be more exciting to watch if a player has to mechanically work harder for the win (multiprompt attacks, harass, micro, multitask...) and not sits at home and thinks about his unit comp, while defending. So maybe "excitement" while watching is different to each other, to me, constant harassement and trading and getting ahead by many small skirmirshes is what I prefer watching, not getting ahead all game and losing in 2 secs then. So for me, it would be fine if every race plays like Terran :D but that is only one mans opinion. Well I think Zerg is fine as well, but i never got "warm" with toss. Lazers and vanishing units don't do the same to me as BLOOD from Zerglings or Humans :D Nah i agree with you and i also think this is true for a lot of people. I was just saying that i don't think this is much about balance ("huh protoss so ez!!" this isn't true), it's more about the general race design ("huh protoss is boring to watch") Lots of action is what sc2 should be about. It would be even ok if one race turtles a little bit more, WHEN the actual engagements would be exciting to watch AND there still would be harass potential for both sides. So yeah, matches which include protoss are simply less interesting on average (i think this is true, would be interesting to look at the TL top games of the year and look how many terran/zerg/protoss games are in there) I think it's just a matter of identification. If you play a race you identify with it and you also tend to see the difficulties in it or the way builds are executed or whatever. If you don't play P then it will be harder for you to be engaged with P play. I picked Protoss (in 2010) because I like lasers.
I have to respect that.
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On August 13 2015 22:23 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2015 22:22 phagga wrote:On August 13 2015 22:17 royalroadweed wrote:On August 13 2015 22:15 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 22:12 yoshi245 wrote:On August 13 2015 22:10 neptunusfisk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think sc2 is in it's best spot ever right now proscene wise. All games are exciting and everyone knows the strengths of the other races. We even have large scale meta shifts in matches without patches. It is cool. Interesting chart. I didn't realize Terran was that poorly represented in early 2014, I knew it was bad, but not that bad. You already forgot GSL RO 32 where there were like 3 Terrans ? :D Recently I looked up the premier Tourney wins of 2014, which is basically all Toss besides Taeja and 1x Flash. Polt won a Rebull, I think. And Bomber won the final season of WCS AM. I assume you mean EARLY 2014, because terrans won plenty of premier tournaments in 2014. The only race that really suffered through the whole of 2014 in terms of tournament wins was zerg. Doesn't help that soO is a Kong
Well, even in runner-up spots zerg is far behind protoss and terran in 2014.
Edit, only 9 runner-up spots, and 4 of those belong to soo...
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On August 13 2015 22:25 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2015 22:25 Heartland wrote:On August 13 2015 22:20 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 13 2015 22:14 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 22:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 13 2015 22:03 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 21:55 MiniFotToss wrote:On August 13 2015 21:49 Nezgar wrote:On August 13 2015 21:45 Wrathsc2 wrote:On August 13 2015 21:44 Nezgar wrote:
[quote]
Pretty much my point...
When a Terran is winning in the midgame, Terran fans proclaim the players as a god.
When a Protoss is winning in the lategame, Terran fans whine about Protoss being OP and "protossed"
Doesn't help that Terran fans seem to be the most vocal part of the community probably because the way terran wins compared to protoss. When a terran wins its through exciting drops and out multitask. When toss wins its because of a big engagnement where they landed storms. And how the fuck are you supposed to do "exciting drops and multitask" when you don't have those tools as Protoss? And your army is weaker in small chunks compared to stimmed bio with medivac support? Defending that while getting to a high tech and building the right composition while keeping your bases alive and picking the right fight is how Protoss wins. Both require different sets of skills. But Terran fans don't understand that last bit. Terran drops = god Protoss doesn't drop = protossed It's an incredibly one-sided narrative and whenever a Protoss fan tries to say anything about it there are 10 Terrans screaming and hacking down on him. Terran fans are ignorant that's why, really shouldn't bother with them, they are always the most pitiful race "WITH THE MOST MICRO" that has no good tech and always complains "they are so ignorant, lets ignore them" you just held a mirror in front of yourself. Terran is the most mechanical race(with all the multi-harass, macro while micro), that is why it SEEMS that terran has to give more for the win. Protoss does a lot "hidden" since its a lot of decisions and composition - we don't see that, so it SEEMS Protoss is easy, just warp in the right units and move over the opponent. Zerg is a lot of perfect scouting, matching the composition and macroing like hell, Very much simplified and not 100% accurate I know, basically because of course every race is also about micro and macro and composition. However, because you SEE what the terran does all the times, it seems Terran has it harder to the neutral viewers (and all Terrans ofc) It doesn't matter if it is just as hard, but it matters if it is exciting to watch. This isn't about balance, it's about unit interactions and viable playstyles for each race. well I think it to be more exciting to watch if a player has to mechanically work harder for the win (multiprompt attacks, harass, micro, multitask...) and not sits at home and thinks about his unit comp, while defending. So maybe "excitement" while watching is different to each other, to me, constant harassement and trading and getting ahead by many small skirmirshes is what I prefer watching, not getting ahead all game and losing in 2 secs then. So for me, it would be fine if every race plays like Terran :D but that is only one mans opinion. Well I think Zerg is fine as well, but i never got "warm" with toss. Lazers and vanishing units don't do the same to me as BLOOD from Zerglings or Humans :D Nah i agree with you and i also think this is true for a lot of people. I was just saying that i don't think this is much about balance ("huh protoss so ez!!" this isn't true), it's more about the general race design ("huh protoss is boring to watch") Lots of action is what sc2 should be about. It would be even ok if one race turtles a little bit more, WHEN the actual engagements would be exciting to watch AND there still would be harass potential for both sides. So yeah, matches which include protoss are simply less interesting on average (i think this is true, would be interesting to look at the TL top games of the year and look how many terran/zerg/protoss games are in there) I think it's just a matter of identification. If you play a race you identify with it and you also tend to see the difficulties in it or the way builds are executed or whatever. If you don't play P then it will be harder for you to be engaged with P play. I picked Protoss (in 2010) because I like lasers.
You're like a bug, attracted to the bright light
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On August 13 2015 22:25 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2015 22:25 Heartland wrote:On August 13 2015 22:20 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 13 2015 22:14 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 22:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 13 2015 22:03 Rollora wrote:On August 13 2015 21:55 MiniFotToss wrote:On August 13 2015 21:49 Nezgar wrote:On August 13 2015 21:45 Wrathsc2 wrote:On August 13 2015 21:44 Nezgar wrote:
[quote]
Pretty much my point...
When a Terran is winning in the midgame, Terran fans proclaim the players as a god.
When a Protoss is winning in the lategame, Terran fans whine about Protoss being OP and "protossed"
Doesn't help that Terran fans seem to be the most vocal part of the community probably because the way terran wins compared to protoss. When a terran wins its through exciting drops and out multitask. When toss wins its because of a big engagnement where they landed storms. And how the fuck are you supposed to do "exciting drops and multitask" when you don't have those tools as Protoss? And your army is weaker in small chunks compared to stimmed bio with medivac support? Defending that while getting to a high tech and building the right composition while keeping your bases alive and picking the right fight is how Protoss wins. Both require different sets of skills. But Terran fans don't understand that last bit. Terran drops = god Protoss doesn't drop = protossed It's an incredibly one-sided narrative and whenever a Protoss fan tries to say anything about it there are 10 Terrans screaming and hacking down on him. Terran fans are ignorant that's why, really shouldn't bother with them, they are always the most pitiful race "WITH THE MOST MICRO" that has no good tech and always complains "they are so ignorant, lets ignore them" you just held a mirror in front of yourself. Terran is the most mechanical race(with all the multi-harass, macro while micro), that is why it SEEMS that terran has to give more for the win. Protoss does a lot "hidden" since its a lot of decisions and composition - we don't see that, so it SEEMS Protoss is easy, just warp in the right units and move over the opponent. Zerg is a lot of perfect scouting, matching the composition and macroing like hell, Very much simplified and not 100% accurate I know, basically because of course every race is also about micro and macro and composition. However, because you SEE what the terran does all the times, it seems Terran has it harder to the neutral viewers (and all Terrans ofc) It doesn't matter if it is just as hard, but it matters if it is exciting to watch. This isn't about balance, it's about unit interactions and viable playstyles for each race. well I think it to be more exciting to watch if a player has to mechanically work harder for the win (multiprompt attacks, harass, micro, multitask...) and not sits at home and thinks about his unit comp, while defending. So maybe "excitement" while watching is different to each other, to me, constant harassement and trading and getting ahead by many small skirmirshes is what I prefer watching, not getting ahead all game and losing in 2 secs then. So for me, it would be fine if every race plays like Terran :D but that is only one mans opinion. Well I think Zerg is fine as well, but i never got "warm" with toss. Lazers and vanishing units don't do the same to me as BLOOD from Zerglings or Humans :D Nah i agree with you and i also think this is true for a lot of people. I was just saying that i don't think this is much about balance ("huh protoss so ez!!" this isn't true), it's more about the general race design ("huh protoss is boring to watch") Lots of action is what sc2 should be about. It would be even ok if one race turtles a little bit more, WHEN the actual engagements would be exciting to watch AND there still would be harass potential for both sides. So yeah, matches which include protoss are simply less interesting on average (i think this is true, would be interesting to look at the TL top games of the year and look how many terran/zerg/protoss games are in there) I think it's just a matter of identification. If you play a race you identify with it and you also tend to see the difficulties in it or the way builds are executed or whatever. If you don't play P then it will be harder for you to be engaged with P play. I picked Protoss (in 2010) because I like lasers.
Lasers are sweet. Why'd you change? I just got bored of 4-gating every game.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aWGPYv4.png)
