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On December 07 2013 21:07 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 21:06 m0ck wrote:On December 07 2013 21:05 Heartland wrote:On December 07 2013 21:04 m0ck wrote:On December 07 2013 20:58 Zealously wrote:On December 07 2013 20:57 m0ck wrote:On December 07 2013 20:55 Zealously wrote:On December 07 2013 20:54 m0ck wrote:On December 07 2013 20:53 Zealously wrote:On December 07 2013 20:49 m0ck wrote:
Those build order wins If being intelligent is a build order win then yes, he won this series with build orders alone It looks that way when it works Does it strike you as strange that he makes it work so frequently? Life looses plenty of ZvZs due to his risky/all in'ish style And is currently on a 7-match win streak. I would love to be that lucky. And before that lost 4 out of 5.. In fact, going by Aligulacs rating, ZvZ is by far his weakest match-up. Intelligent or not, an all-in on top of a feint is still an all-in. And all-ins are all about taking a big risk for an effortless victory. Not that there is anything wrong with that. All-ins aren't effortless. Good, important point that really cuts to the heart of the issue Sorry for my snarky tone. I just think it should be mentioned. Because there is some sort of idea that all-ins are somehow morally worse than playing like HasuObs.
Well, likewise 
And I agree completely. The Idra school of shaming all-ins really held back the foreign scene for a long time, I feel.
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I am so sad I have to go when elfi murders JD :/
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Gogo Scarlett, tear StarDust a new one!
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On December 07 2013 21:08 Heartland wrote:
@Startale_Life 1m
Scarlett come on!!
I have a feeling he would have an easier time with Stardust. But I guess he is really confident in his ZvZ
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On December 07 2013 21:07 Ctesias wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 21:04 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On December 07 2013 21:01 Heartland wrote:
We have to stop this rampant racism vs Protoss. Reducing their number of effective all-ins might do that I thought we hated Protoss end game?
We hate every part of the protoss game, just in a different way. It's kind of like being pepper-sprayed after getting a knee to the balls, it hurts in entirely distinct yet still agonizing ways.
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The guy who made this royalty free saxophone music could have earned so many esports dollars.
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On December 07 2013 21:08 Heartland wrote:
@Startale_Life 1m
Scarlett come on!!
Life was with scarlett a few minutes ago
said nothing
not even a look
cheer on twitters
koreans...ahah
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On December 07 2013 21:00 Walitgon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 20:56 Dingodile wrote:On December 07 2013 20:53 Zealously wrote:On December 07 2013 20:49 m0ck wrote:
Those build order wins If being intelligent is a build order win then yes, he won this series with build orders alone build order wins are so retarted, I still cant believe that this is a part of esports rts game. It ruins almost everything and entertaining and this happened before you scout the build of your opponent. This is just luck. [...] Vortix did not of that. He made no attempt to scout Life's drone lines. He had no ovies in position to check gas etc. He did not try to run a few lings into Life's main or nat to check drone levels. Instead, he dropped a blind third, and two evos without a bane nest. Not even a spine. Could you be greedier? It's not a BO loss. It's taking a HUGE risk that, if you make it to the mid game, will pay off. It was deservedly punished.
Life's triple Queen killed all possible scouts by Vortix. These two evos was just a try to make a wall to stop ~15 supply lings. Since all scouts were killed, everything went blindly, sir.
It is a BO loss, but not 100%. BO made a very big difference here.
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switching streams? so back to glorious 480p as source?
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Canada16217 Posts
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Crap, why do they have to switch now when things are finally working.
I have a bad feeling about this.
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On December 07 2013 21:12 Noonius wrote:
switching streams? so back to glorious 480p as source?
Its still the same setup, why would switching streams cause that.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 07 2013 21:04 m0ck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 20:58 Zealously wrote:On December 07 2013 20:57 m0ck wrote:On December 07 2013 20:55 Zealously wrote:On December 07 2013 20:54 m0ck wrote:On December 07 2013 20:53 Zealously wrote:On December 07 2013 20:49 m0ck wrote:
Those build order wins If being intelligent is a build order win then yes, he won this series with build orders alone It looks that way when it works Does it strike you as strange that he makes it work so frequently? Life looses plenty of ZvZs due to his risky/all in'ish style And is currently on a 7-match win streak. I would love to be that lucky. And before that lost 4 out of 5.. In fact, going by Aligulacs rating, ZvZ is by far his weakest match-up. Intelligent or not, an all-in on top of a feint is still an all-in. And all-ins are all about taking a big risk for an effortless victory. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Going by Aligulac's rating, ZvZ is the match-up that Life has improved in the most over the last 2 months.
Anyway, most of these all-ins are used in response to an opponent playing greedy. Greed is supposed to be a risk, an economic gamble. When you scout greed, you punish it. RTS games typically work like that. There is risk involved in a blind 10pool as well. If it's stopped, you'll fall very far behind economically. There's a balance - you're rewarded when your gambles pay off, and you're rewarded if you manage to punish your opponent for theirs. Players like Life and Soulkey can make their all-ins even stronger because they have flawless macro and incredible micro. Not anyone can pull of an all-in like that. It's not inconceivable that some players could have held that very all-in in Vortix's situation, given the same information.
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I will always thank to Twitch for that "Hide Chat" option, it is saving lives.
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Stream will restart 'shortly'  . Time to do the dishes
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On December 07 2013 21:13 NovaMB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 21:12 Noonius wrote:
switching streams? so back to glorious 480p as source?
Its still the same setup, why would switching streams cause that.
I wondered same thing, there is no difference except stream's name ;P
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On December 07 2013 21:15 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Stream will restart 'shortly' . Time to do the dishes
If it's the same time measuring as yesterday, I might as well do my Christmas shopping now.
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On December 07 2013 21:11 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 21:00 Walitgon wrote:On December 07 2013 20:56 Dingodile wrote:On December 07 2013 20:53 Zealously wrote:On December 07 2013 20:49 m0ck wrote:
Those build order wins If being intelligent is a build order win then yes, he won this series with build orders alone build order wins are so retarted, I still cant believe that this is a part of esports rts game. It ruins almost everything and entertaining and this happened before you scout the build of your opponent. This is just luck. [...] Vortix did not of that. He made no attempt to scout Life's drone lines. He had no ovies in position to check gas etc. He did not try to run a few lings into Life's main or nat to check drone levels. Instead, he dropped a blind third, and two evos without a bane nest. Not even a spine. Could you be greedier? It's not a BO loss. It's taking a HUGE risk that, if you make it to the mid game, will pay off. It was deservedly punished. Life's triple Queen killed all possible scouts by Vortix. These two evos was just a try to make a wall to stop ~15 supply lings. Since all scouts were killed, everything is blindly, sir. It is a BO loss, but not 100%. BO made a very big difference here.
I disagree about the queen point. First, a better zerg notices the two queens approaching and saves the overlord. Second, it's a choice to place it there. Different zergs float it near the back of the nat, and take peeks at drone saturation.
Next, you can still get ling scouts off to check saturation levels. With virtually no saturation at the nat (there were around 3 drones), it will be obvious that an attack is immiment. Vortix also did not try to do that.
Third, in nobody's book is a third hatch with a small batch of lings, no bane nest and no spine safe. That's a choice to do that.
I mean, if you want to call a build order choice that is completely unsafe given any number of options your opponent may make, then you can call it a BO loss. But in my opinion, a BO loss is something like proxy oracle against 1-gate robo, both of which are fairly standard builds.
What Vortix did is not standard and is just hugely greedy without even attempting to scout or setting up a contingency. It is economic cheese; it is going all-in with droning. I can't call that a BO loss, just poor play in my opinion.
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On December 07 2013 21:16 ZeRoXSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 21:13 NovaMB wrote:On December 07 2013 21:12 Noonius wrote:
switching streams? so back to glorious 480p as source?
Its still the same setup, why would switching streams cause that. I wondered same thing, there is no difference except stream's name ;P
Maybe it has something to do with their sponsors? They want to see how many tuned into their stream, etc.
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On December 07 2013 21:11 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 21:00 Walitgon wrote:On December 07 2013 20:56 Dingodile wrote:On December 07 2013 20:53 Zealously wrote:On December 07 2013 20:49 m0ck wrote:
Those build order wins If being intelligent is a build order win then yes, he won this series with build orders alone build order wins are so retarted, I still cant believe that this is a part of esports rts game. It ruins almost everything and entertaining and this happened before you scout the build of your opponent. This is just luck. [...] Vortix did not of that. He made no attempt to scout Life's drone lines. He had no ovies in position to check gas etc. He did not try to run a few lings into Life's main or nat to check drone levels. Instead, he dropped a blind third, and two evos without a bane nest. Not even a spine. Could you be greedier? It's not a BO loss. It's taking a HUGE risk that, if you make it to the mid game, will pay off. It was deservedly punished. Life's triple Queen killed all possible scouts by Vortix. These two evos was just a try to make a wall to stop ~15 supply lings. Since all scouts were killed, everything is blindly, sir. It is a BO loss, but not 100%. BO made a very big difference here.
Life opened hatch 1st, Vortix opened Pool first. Life knew he had a Larva advantage. Vortix took fast gas, Life didn't. After Life scouted Vortix's build and saw his gas timing with his Overlord, he instantly took double gas and pulled off after getting 100 for speed. He saw what kind of build Vortix was going for, and knew when Vortix was going to try to Drone up, and saw he had a window for aggression. It wasn't blind, it was a decision based on what he saw and his game sense.
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EPT
