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Quarterfinal
Vortix 3:2 Life
Scarlett 3:2 StarDust
Jaedong 3:0 elfi
INnoVation 3:1 San
Semi-Final
Vortix 3:2 Scarlett
Jaedong 3:1 Innovation
Final
Jaedong 4:0 Vortix
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On December 07 2013 10:58 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 10:44 SkullZ9 wrote:On December 07 2013 10:36 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:34 tomatriedes wrote:On December 07 2013 10:28 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:27 tomatriedes wrote:Still not close to the level he used to be. What? His top6 at this Code S is more impressive than his Code S victory. No. At that time jakji was fearsome and considered one of the best terrans around. He hasn't showed that kind of consistency for a long time. At that time the competition was way less fierce, and Terran was also in a much better state. Can you please stop saying Terran is in a bad state ? Please ? Because it is getting really annoying. You might want to look at tournament results. Here, http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments, you can find a list of hots tournament. You will discover, maybe with surprise, that terrans players have won 14 premier tournaments in hots, while protoss have won 8 and zerg 7. That's right, terran players have almost the same number of titles than protoss and zerg players combined  I don't even have anything against terran lol, but you are just really annoying complaining without reason. And i'm not saying by these numbers that the game is imbalanced because it would be stupid to say so, I'm just saying that it is also stupid to say terrans are in a bad state. Now I'm going to sleep because I know that even confronted with proofs that you are wrong, you will probably continue to argue. Edit : And I agree that for some reason, terran seems harder for foreigners, but complaining that korean terrans have a hard time just makes me laugh For some reason? That is pretty lame. It is like saying back during GOMTvT, Korean Terrans were better for some reason.
I said that because the topic in question didn't concern foreign terran, it concerned whining about a KOREAN terran that made a bad tournament
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On December 07 2013 10:59 RiZu wrote:
Vortix 3:2 Life
Scarlett 3:2 StarDust
Jaedong 3:0 elfi
INnoVation 3:1 San
Vortix 3:2 Scarlett
Jaedong 3:1 Innovation
Jaedong 4:0 Vortix
That's my dream outcome, except maybe Scarlett 3:2 Vortix, and then Jaedong stomps in the finals.
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TLADT24920 Posts
Would be awesome if Jaedong won this. On a side note, Jjakji might have improved his game since his slump but I think Scarlett beating himself isn't odd at all. Elfi, maybe a bit but he played well from what I saw and Jjakji wasn't playing the greatest either. No reason to balance whine about Jjakji losing imo, not justified.
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On December 07 2013 10:54 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 10:53 lannisport wrote:
Anyone have direct links to the Scarlett VODs? I can't find them on the twitch archives. Scarlett vs jjakji
Thank you!
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On December 07 2013 10:59 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 10:48 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:42 tomatriedes wrote:On December 07 2013 10:36 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:34 tomatriedes wrote:On December 07 2013 10:28 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:27 tomatriedes wrote:Still not close to the level he used to be. What? His top6 at this Code S is more impressive than his Code S victory. No. At that time jakji was fearsome and considered one of the best terrans around. He hasn't showed that kind of consistency for a long time. At that time the competition was way less fierce, and Terran was also in a much better state. Whatever the state of the game certain players will show more consistency than others and you can hardly say that jakji has been playing as well this year as other top terrans like taeja. Im sure jakji himself would agree he hasn't been in his best form. It doesn't matter whether jjakji is at his best form or not. The fact is that he's better than Scarlett and elfi yet lost both of them. On December 07 2013 10:44 SkullZ9 wrote:On December 07 2013 10:36 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:34 tomatriedes wrote:On December 07 2013 10:28 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:27 tomatriedes wrote:Still not close to the level he used to be. What? His top6 at this Code S is more impressive than his Code S victory. No. At that time jakji was fearsome and considered one of the best terrans around. He hasn't showed that kind of consistency for a long time. At that time the competition was way less fierce, and Terran was also in a much better state. Can you please stop saying Terran is in a bad state ? Please ? Because it is getting really annoying. You might want to look at tournament results. Here, http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments, you can find a list of hots tournament. You will discover, maybe with surprise, that terrans players have won 14 premier tournaments in hots, while protoss have won 8 and zerg 7. That's right, terran players have almost the same number of titles than protoss and zerg players combined I don't even have anything against terran lol, but you are just really annoying complaining without reason. And i'm not saying by these numbers that the game is imbalanced because it would be stupid to say so, I'm just saying that it is also stupid to say terrans are in a bad state. Now I'm going to sleep because I know that even confronted with proofs that you are wrong, you will probably continue to argue. Edit : And I agree that for some reason, terran seems harder for foreigners, but complaining that korean terrans have a hard time just makes me laugh Your Premier Tournaments list is irrelevant and the rest of your post is off topic anyway. It's not about a simplistic "X or Y are OP," it's about Terran being the most at risk to lose inferior opponents. You are seriously underestimating Scarlett's skill if you think she should not be capable of beating jakji. Elfi was a surprise for sure, but we don't know the condition of jakji going into these matches. You are always far too quick to blame balance every time a terran loses in any tournament and you don't give credit to the skill of any zerg or protoss players.
Just like you give yourself credit when beating terrans on the ladder ? ^^
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On December 07 2013 10:55 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 10:51 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:On December 07 2013 10:48 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 07 2013 10:44 Popkiller wrote:On December 07 2013 10:38 Assirra wrote:
Terran doesn't win every game they play?
something is wrong with the game here! Code S Terran loses to Elfi? Yeah, something is off. But I think it's moreso that the tournament conditions threw Jjakji off his game. Delays, jet lag, fatigue, whatever. Jjakji also lost to Scarlett. While yes, Scarlett is likely better than Elfi, he is no slouch. Foreigners definitely have potential to take games away from Code S players, and like you said, the conditions were not the most favorable, and chances are Elfi was more prepared for them than Jjakji. As I already said, only foreign Zergs and Protoss players can take games off of Koreans. Happy is the only foreign Terran that has taken a game off of a Korean, let alone a foreigner, since the last patch. Lucifron was the only other hope and he completely fell off. I just don't understand how you can be arguing imbalance if when it comes to major tournaments since september, 5 of them were won by terran, 2 by zerg, and 4 by protoss. That seems like a VERY even distribution to me. And if we talk Winner + Runner-up for the tournaments since September, it is: 6 terran 7 zerg 9 protoss You really can't get much more even than this. The minor difference from being completely even can easily be explained by a small sample too. There is no evidence for a certain race being more favoured.
Did you read a single thing I said? I said that no foreigner Terrans are beating Korean Zergs/Protoss, and that they're barely beating foreigner Zergs/Protoss. I never said anything about racial distribution, imbalance, or any of that nonsense in that post.
Secondly, I also want to point out this: The only Terran winning anything is TaeJa. TaeJa also won HSC which might as well not have been a premier tournament. HyuN played like utter garbage in the finals and proved that he is only good at one thing in ZvT: abusing the metagame and using cheesy styles. Is HyuN bad? No, that series just showed that he crumbles when he is compared to solid players like TaeJa.
You can say whatever you want about balance and that's ok, but saying that foreigner Terrans are anywhere near the same level as foreigner Zergs/Protoss is unfair and stupid.
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On December 07 2013 10:40 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 10:38 Fjodorov wrote:On December 07 2013 10:37 Mozdk wrote:
Life > VortiX
Scarlett > StarDust (Close to 50/50)
Dong > Elfi
INnoVation > San
Seem right? I honestly think innovation and san is 50/50 aswell. Other than that I agree I think San wins after watching Innovation kind of struggle with Welmu in game 3, and lose to duckdeok pretty easily. San will certainly have good build orders planned and I think he can easily prepare for Innovation. Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 10:38 Assirra wrote:
Terran doesn't win every game they play?
something is wrong with the game here! You guys really don't get it. The issue isn't that Terran loses. If we look at the top 10 earning foreigner Terrans, almost none of them are active in tournaments anymore, let alone being able to take a game off of a top FOREIGNER. LucifroN can't even beat foreigners anymore. He used to be able to sort of compete with Koreans. Now he's not even in the running to be a top foreigner, and he's (arguably) the best foreigner Terran right now. There's no bias in the statement that foreigner Terrans don't beat Koreans, but foreigner Zergs/Protoss players (not only Scarlett/NaNiwa) beat Koreans.
So much wrong, so little time
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On December 07 2013 10:59 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 10:53 painkilla wrote:
Did Lucifron ever beat a top code S Zerg/Protoss, even in the "terran OP" period? Serious question. http://www.aligulac.com/players/50/results/?after=&before=&race=ptzr&country=KR&bestof=all&offline=both&game=HotS&op=FilterShow nested quote +On December 07 2013 10:59 tomatriedes wrote:On December 07 2013 10:48 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:42 tomatriedes wrote:On December 07 2013 10:36 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:34 tomatriedes wrote:On December 07 2013 10:28 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:27 tomatriedes wrote:Still not close to the level he used to be. What? His top6 at this Code S is more impressive than his Code S victory. No. At that time jakji was fearsome and considered one of the best terrans around. He hasn't showed that kind of consistency for a long time. At that time the competition was way less fierce, and Terran was also in a much better state. Whatever the state of the game certain players will show more consistency than others and you can hardly say that jakji has been playing as well this year as other top terrans like taeja. Im sure jakji himself would agree he hasn't been in his best form. It doesn't matter whether jjakji is at his best form or not. The fact is that he's better than Scarlett and elfi yet lost both of them. On December 07 2013 10:44 SkullZ9 wrote:On December 07 2013 10:36 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:34 tomatriedes wrote:On December 07 2013 10:28 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:27 tomatriedes wrote:Still not close to the level he used to be. What? His top6 at this Code S is more impressive than his Code S victory. No. At that time jakji was fearsome and considered one of the best terrans around. He hasn't showed that kind of consistency for a long time. At that time the competition was way less fierce, and Terran was also in a much better state. Can you please stop saying Terran is in a bad state ? Please ? Because it is getting really annoying. You might want to look at tournament results. Here, http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments, you can find a list of hots tournament. You will discover, maybe with surprise, that terrans players have won 14 premier tournaments in hots, while protoss have won 8 and zerg 7. That's right, terran players have almost the same number of titles than protoss and zerg players combined I don't even have anything against terran lol, but you are just really annoying complaining without reason. And i'm not saying by these numbers that the game is imbalanced because it would be stupid to say so, I'm just saying that it is also stupid to say terrans are in a bad state. Now I'm going to sleep because I know that even confronted with proofs that you are wrong, you will probably continue to argue. Edit : And I agree that for some reason, terran seems harder for foreigners, but complaining that korean terrans have a hard time just makes me laugh Your Premier Tournaments list is irrelevant and the rest of your post is off topic anyway. It's not about a simplistic "X or Y are OP," it's about Terran being the most at risk to lose inferior opponents. You are seriously underestimating Scarlett's skill if you think she should not be capable of beating jakji. Elfi was a surprise for sure, but we don't know the condition of jakji going into these matches. You are always far too quick to blame balance every time a terran loses in any tournament and you don't give credit to the skill of any zerg or protoss players. I didn't say Scarlett shouldn't be capable of beating jjakji. And elfi was not that much of a surprise to me, that's the problem.
Don't try to weasel out- your implication was pretty clear that you think jakji should not lose to scarlett whereas most people knowing the current form of both players would think it's a pretty reasonable outcome. You post a lot of this kind of whining in lr threads even before the patch when terran were winning the majority of tournaments.
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On December 07 2013 11:12 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 10:59 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:53 painkilla wrote:
Did Lucifron ever beat a top code S Zerg/Protoss, even in the "terran OP" period? Serious question. http://www.aligulac.com/players/50/results/?after=&before=&race=ptzr&country=KR&bestof=all&offline=both&game=HotS&op=FilterOn December 07 2013 10:59 tomatriedes wrote:On December 07 2013 10:48 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:42 tomatriedes wrote:On December 07 2013 10:36 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:34 tomatriedes wrote:On December 07 2013 10:28 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:27 tomatriedes wrote:Still not close to the level he used to be. What? His top6 at this Code S is more impressive than his Code S victory. No. At that time jakji was fearsome and considered one of the best terrans around. He hasn't showed that kind of consistency for a long time. At that time the competition was way less fierce, and Terran was also in a much better state. Whatever the state of the game certain players will show more consistency than others and you can hardly say that jakji has been playing as well this year as other top terrans like taeja. Im sure jakji himself would agree he hasn't been in his best form. It doesn't matter whether jjakji is at his best form or not. The fact is that he's better than Scarlett and elfi yet lost both of them. On December 07 2013 10:44 SkullZ9 wrote:On December 07 2013 10:36 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:34 tomatriedes wrote:On December 07 2013 10:28 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:27 tomatriedes wrote:Still not close to the level he used to be. What? His top6 at this Code S is more impressive than his Code S victory. No. At that time jakji was fearsome and considered one of the best terrans around. He hasn't showed that kind of consistency for a long time. At that time the competition was way less fierce, and Terran was also in a much better state. Can you please stop saying Terran is in a bad state ? Please ? Because it is getting really annoying. You might want to look at tournament results. Here, http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments, you can find a list of hots tournament. You will discover, maybe with surprise, that terrans players have won 14 premier tournaments in hots, while protoss have won 8 and zerg 7. That's right, terran players have almost the same number of titles than protoss and zerg players combined I don't even have anything against terran lol, but you are just really annoying complaining without reason. And i'm not saying by these numbers that the game is imbalanced because it would be stupid to say so, I'm just saying that it is also stupid to say terrans are in a bad state. Now I'm going to sleep because I know that even confronted with proofs that you are wrong, you will probably continue to argue. Edit : And I agree that for some reason, terran seems harder for foreigners, but complaining that korean terrans have a hard time just makes me laugh Your Premier Tournaments list is irrelevant and the rest of your post is off topic anyway. It's not about a simplistic "X or Y are OP," it's about Terran being the most at risk to lose inferior opponents. You are seriously underestimating Scarlett's skill if you think she should not be capable of beating jakji. Elfi was a surprise for sure, but we don't know the condition of jakji going into these matches. You are always far too quick to blame balance every time a terran loses in any tournament and you don't give credit to the skill of any zerg or protoss players. I didn't say Scarlett shouldn't be capable of beating jjakji. And elfi was not that much of a surprise to me, that's the problem. Don't try to weasel out- your implication was pretty clear that you think jakji should not lose to scarlett whereas most people knowing the current form of both players would think it's a pretty reasonable outcome. You post a lot of this kind of whining in lr threads even before the patch when terran were winning the majority of tournaments.
No. My implication was that on average, jjakji should win the majority of his games against Scarlett; that's why I won't say much about his 2:3 loss, because upsets can happen from time to time, even if it's clear to me that jjakji lost the last map despite playing better. Stick to what is written instead of trying to be smart and extrapolate things.
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Wow, Lucifron, what happened man? That puts his current tournament record at 0-14 from just 2 tournaments. I thought he'd gone full time as well, from someone who actually watched the game was it a total stomp? Were there any of his games that looked close?
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On December 07 2013 11:18 Greendotz wrote:
Wow, Lucifron, what happened man? That puts his current tournament record at 0-14 from just 2 tournaments. I thought he'd gone full time as well, from someone who actually watched the game was it a total stomp? Were there any of his games that looked close?
His games against jjakji were not streamed.
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On December 07 2013 11:18 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 11:12 tomatriedes wrote:On December 07 2013 10:59 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:53 painkilla wrote:
Did Lucifron ever beat a top code S Zerg/Protoss, even in the "terran OP" period? Serious question. http://www.aligulac.com/players/50/results/?after=&before=&race=ptzr&country=KR&bestof=all&offline=both&game=HotS&op=FilterOn December 07 2013 10:59 tomatriedes wrote:On December 07 2013 10:48 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:42 tomatriedes wrote:On December 07 2013 10:36 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:34 tomatriedes wrote:On December 07 2013 10:28 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:27 tomatriedes wrote:
[quote]
Still not close to the level he used to be. What? His top6 at this Code S is more impressive than his Code S victory. No. At that time jakji was fearsome and considered one of the best terrans around. He hasn't showed that kind of consistency for a long time. At that time the competition was way less fierce, and Terran was also in a much better state. Whatever the state of the game certain players will show more consistency than others and you can hardly say that jakji has been playing as well this year as other top terrans like taeja. Im sure jakji himself would agree he hasn't been in his best form. It doesn't matter whether jjakji is at his best form or not. The fact is that he's better than Scarlett and elfi yet lost both of them. On December 07 2013 10:44 SkullZ9 wrote:On December 07 2013 10:36 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:34 tomatriedes wrote:On December 07 2013 10:28 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 10:27 tomatriedes wrote:
[quote]
Still not close to the level he used to be. What? His top6 at this Code S is more impressive than his Code S victory. No. At that time jakji was fearsome and considered one of the best terrans around. He hasn't showed that kind of consistency for a long time. At that time the competition was way less fierce, and Terran was also in a much better state. Can you please stop saying Terran is in a bad state ? Please ? Because it is getting really annoying. You might want to look at tournament results. Here, http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments, you can find a list of hots tournament. You will discover, maybe with surprise, that terrans players have won 14 premier tournaments in hots, while protoss have won 8 and zerg 7. That's right, terran players have almost the same number of titles than protoss and zerg players combined I don't even have anything against terran lol, but you are just really annoying complaining without reason. And i'm not saying by these numbers that the game is imbalanced because it would be stupid to say so, I'm just saying that it is also stupid to say terrans are in a bad state. Now I'm going to sleep because I know that even confronted with proofs that you are wrong, you will probably continue to argue. Edit : And I agree that for some reason, terran seems harder for foreigners, but complaining that korean terrans have a hard time just makes me laugh Your Premier Tournaments list is irrelevant and the rest of your post is off topic anyway. It's not about a simplistic "X or Y are OP," it's about Terran being the most at risk to lose inferior opponents. You are seriously underestimating Scarlett's skill if you think she should not be capable of beating jakji. Elfi was a surprise for sure, but we don't know the condition of jakji going into these matches. You are always far too quick to blame balance every time a terran loses in any tournament and you don't give credit to the skill of any zerg or protoss players. I didn't say Scarlett shouldn't be capable of beating jjakji. And elfi was not that much of a surprise to me, that's the problem. Don't try to weasel out- your implication was pretty clear that you think jakji should not lose to scarlett whereas most people knowing the current form of both players would think it's a pretty reasonable outcome. You post a lot of this kind of whining in lr threads even before the patch when terran were winning the majority of tournaments. No. My implication was that on average, jjakji should win the majority of his games against Scarlett; that's why I won't say much about his 2:3 loss, because upsets can happen from time to time, even if it's clear to me that jjakji lost the last map despite playing better. Stick to what is written instead of trying to be smart and extrapolate things.
I read exactly what you wrote and it was pretty clear- you are the one trying to add things to it now.
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theres no such things as a good foreign terran because terran is UP right now... that might sound bad, people might get upset over it, but since this last patch, that is what happened.
widowmines being nerfed is KILLING tvz...
msc and oracle is KILLING tvp
why is it fair that foreign zerg and toss players enjoy soo much success and wins over code S korean terrans, but the same can not EVER be said about foreign terrans?
this game needs to be fair and balanced for everyone
User was temp banned for this post.
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can someone pm me where i can find vods i an typing this without looking at screen thanks
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To be fair, Sjow did beat Life. But foreign Terrans have been down for so long now that people take it for granted now.
And even if you look at the top terrans now, they are the old eSF Terrans besides Inno. Second is probably Flash.
For P, we have Dear, sOs, Trap, Rain, Sora, CJ herO...
In his Hot6ix interview, SK even mentioned that it was hard for him to practice ZvT due to lack of Terrans on KR ladder.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
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Sucks that San and Innovation are playing in the first round  . Want both of them to do well.
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Nerchio vs Stardust VODs available anywhere?
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United States23455 Posts
I am unable tomorrow. Someone please!
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EPT
