• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 14:08
CET 20:08
KST 04:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket12Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge1[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA12
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t GM / Master map hacker and general hacking and cheating thread
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune｜Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
Data analysis on 70 million replays A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group B - Sun 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
EVE Corporation Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile [Game] Osu! Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Health Impact of Joining…
TrAiDoS
Dyadica Evangelium — Chapt…
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1897 users

[IEM] New York Day 2 - Group A/B/C/D - Page 86

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 84 85 86 87 88 161 Next
Darkhorse
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States23455 Posts
October 11 2013 20:14 GMT
#1701
On October 12 2013 05:12 lolfail9001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2013 05:11 stuchiu wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:09 Darkhoarse wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:06 lolfail9001 wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:05 herMan wrote:
No one seems to remember flash's absolute tear at proleague. This community sure has a short memory.

He actually has a lower WR than Innovation at proleague. He was played by Kt almost every game though.

Yes he had a lower win rate than INNOVATION at proleague (by less than .5%) and was only played two more times than Innovation, so that clearly means his record in proleague wasn't that good.


PL was overrated, It was missing the other half of the really good Korean players.

This one too. And yes, if you talk about on a tear, you may want to consider if his winrate was an on a tear.

His winrate was on a tear. Despite being played the most of any player, he had the third highest winrate in the league, less that .3% behind sOs and less than .5% behind Innovation.
WriterRecently Necro'd (?)
Fat_Elephant
Profile Joined May 2013
Angola54 Posts
October 11 2013 20:14 GMT
#1702
Here we go!
I support and use Ad-blocker for this site as matter of convenience and disregard TL's financial responsibilities.
Noonius
Profile Joined April 2012
Estonia17413 Posts
October 11 2013 20:14 GMT
#1703
everybody PANIC
Terran forever | Maru hater forever
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45078 Posts
October 11 2013 20:14 GMT
#1704
Consistent stream issues with Twitch all day for me... mostly the audio cutting in and out
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8643 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-11 20:15:18
October 11 2013 20:15 GMT
#1705
On October 12 2013 05:14 Wiggins8 wrote:
Flash: "I'm outta here..."


and pulls the plug. " If I can't like SC2, no one can!"
in the age of "Person, Woman, Man, Camera, TV" leadership.
openbox1
Profile Joined March 2011
1393 Posts
October 11 2013 20:15 GMT
#1706
State, made one massively unlucky mistake though, clumping his probes into two little neat piles, just perfectly for the widow mine shots. I think that completely screwed his morale that he ended up screwing up his micro at the natural.

GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
October 11 2013 20:15 GMT
#1707
On October 12 2013 05:11 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2013 05:09 Darkhoarse wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:06 lolfail9001 wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:05 herMan wrote:
No one seems to remember flash's absolute tear at proleague. This community sure has a short memory.

He actually has a lower WR than Innovation at proleague. He was played by Kt almost every game though.

Yes he had a lower win rate than INNOVATION at proleague (by less than .5%) and was only played two more times than Innovation, so that clearly means his record in proleague wasn't that good.


PL was overrated, It was missing the other half of the really good Korean players.


Why does that matter? He still did extremely well against lots of good players. That's like saying "A GSL win is overrated. He didn't even play half the people in the tournament!"
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
October 11 2013 20:15 GMT
#1708
On October 12 2013 05:12 Keeemy wrote:
LR threads so full of whine


Really? It's been way whinier than this in other LR threads. This seems quite good to me, at least so far.
KT best KT ~ 2014
Darkhorse
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States23455 Posts
October 11 2013 20:15 GMT
#1709
On October 12 2013 05:13 sharkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2013 05:07 stuchiu wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:05 sharkie wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:04 SoFrOsTy wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:02 sharkie wrote:
On October 12 2013 04:59 Fat_Elephant wrote:
Hmmmm, I wasnt interested in StarCraft when Flash was dominating Broodwar. Im wondering how much of his skill was placed on the much higher demands of mechanics as opposed to overall game sense. Maybe players like Jaedong and Flash simply succeeded because there wasnt as much leniency in BW then today. idk


Jaedong is top3 zerg in sc2, dont compare him to the average terran


Top 3? You think he is better than soO, Soulkey, Hyvaa, Dongraegu, and Symbol? I don't think so. He is definitely below them. I might even put him below Hyun ATM.


better than hyvaa, drg and symbol easily
soo and soulkey depends on the matchups


Nah. His ZvZ is worse than Hyun. DRG's ZvT is better than Jaedong's. His ZvP is at best even with Soo and Soulkey, same thing for his ZvZ. But his ZvT is much worse than either of them.

You're underrating Symbol and Hyvaa greatly.


Symbol below 50% winrate, hyvaa barely 50% - no further need to mention those two
DRG is better in ONE matchup (1 > 2 or what?)

Symbol also sometimes makes GSL finals/ro8 while Jaedong is losing to theognis in AM challenger.
WriterRecently Necro'd (?)
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
October 11 2013 20:16 GMT
#1710
On October 12 2013 05:15 aZealot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2013 05:12 Keeemy wrote:
LR threads so full of whine


Really? It's been way whinier than this in other LR threads. This seems quite good to me, at least so far.


He did say threads.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
TommyP
Profile Joined December 2011
United States6231 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-11 20:17:38
October 11 2013 20:16 GMT
#1711
On October 12 2013 05:14 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2013 05:13 sharkie wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:07 stuchiu wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:05 sharkie wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:04 SoFrOsTy wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:02 sharkie wrote:
On October 12 2013 04:59 Fat_Elephant wrote:
Hmmmm, I wasnt interested in StarCraft when Flash was dominating Broodwar. Im wondering how much of his skill was placed on the much higher demands of mechanics as opposed to overall game sense. Maybe players like Jaedong and Flash simply succeeded because there wasnt as much leniency in BW then today. idk


Jaedong is top3 zerg in sc2, dont compare him to the average terran


Top 3? You think he is better than soO, Soulkey, Hyvaa, Dongraegu, and Symbol? I don't think so. He is definitely below them. I might even put him below Hyun ATM.


better than hyvaa, drg and symbol easily
soo and soulkey depends on the matchups


Nah. His ZvZ is worse than Hyun. DRG's ZvT is better than Jaedong's. His ZvP is at best even with Soo and Soulkey, same thing for his ZvZ. But his ZvT is much worse than either of them.

You're underrating Symbol and Hyvaa greatly.


Symbol below 50% winrate, hyvaa barely 50%
DRG is better in ONE matchup (1 > 2 or what?)


Symbol and Hyvaa also didn't run away from Code S and didn't get the chance to bolster their winrates through going to every lan outside of Korea. DRG is better in ZvT, but I can't prove or disprove his ZvP or ZvZ is better or worse because there is no data on it.

DRGs ZvZ and ZvP is good enough to beat anyone in the world. He 2-0d Life yesterday, honestly he looked better than Curious to me in all three games just made some silly mistakes that he shouldnt have and his series v. Dear and Soulkey were super super close.

On October 12 2013 05:15 Darkhoarse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2013 05:13 sharkie wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:07 stuchiu wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:05 sharkie wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:04 SoFrOsTy wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:02 sharkie wrote:
On October 12 2013 04:59 Fat_Elephant wrote:
Hmmmm, I wasnt interested in StarCraft when Flash was dominating Broodwar. Im wondering how much of his skill was placed on the much higher demands of mechanics as opposed to overall game sense. Maybe players like Jaedong and Flash simply succeeded because there wasnt as much leniency in BW then today. idk


Jaedong is top3 zerg in sc2, dont compare him to the average terran


Top 3? You think he is better than soO, Soulkey, Hyvaa, Dongraegu, and Symbol? I don't think so. He is definitely below them. I might even put him below Hyun ATM.


better than hyvaa, drg and symbol easily
soo and soulkey depends on the matchups


Nah. His ZvZ is worse than Hyun. DRG's ZvT is better than Jaedong's. His ZvP is at best even with Soo and Soulkey, same thing for his ZvZ. But his ZvT is much worse than either of them.

You're underrating Symbol and Hyvaa greatly.


Symbol below 50% winrate, hyvaa barely 50% - no further need to mention those two
DRG is better in ONE matchup (1 > 2 or what?)

Symbol also sometimes makes GSL finals/ro8 while Jaedong is losing to theognis in AM challenger.

that series was a really long time ago. Its just hard to gauge how good someone really is when they arent playing against the top players (WCS KR) day in and day out.
#TheOneTrueDong
dizzy101
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands2066 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-11 20:17:15
October 11 2013 20:16 GMT
#1712
Why does this event have so few viewers? Barely 5k.

That's as many as the 3rd most popular Hearthstone channel right now.
ReMinD_
Profile Joined May 2013
Croatia846 Posts
October 11 2013 20:16 GMT
#1713
On October 12 2013 05:11 aZealot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2013 05:09 DifuntO wrote:
That was some good cheese.


Indeed. Good cheese is good.


Indeed. Some very good cheese.
Parting: Well, even I can make better maps than these.
Frex
Profile Joined March 2012
Finland888 Posts
October 11 2013 20:16 GMT
#1714
That last game was actually the most impressing game from Flash in Sc2 that I have seen, not the usual stuff, something out of the ordinary.

WP Flash
SixStrings
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Germany2046 Posts
October 11 2013 20:17 GMT
#1715
On October 12 2013 05:15 Darkhoarse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2013 05:13 sharkie wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:07 stuchiu wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:05 sharkie wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:04 SoFrOsTy wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:02 sharkie wrote:
On October 12 2013 04:59 Fat_Elephant wrote:
Hmmmm, I wasnt interested in StarCraft when Flash was dominating Broodwar. Im wondering how much of his skill was placed on the much higher demands of mechanics as opposed to overall game sense. Maybe players like Jaedong and Flash simply succeeded because there wasnt as much leniency in BW then today. idk


Jaedong is top3 zerg in sc2, dont compare him to the average terran


Top 3? You think he is better than soO, Soulkey, Hyvaa, Dongraegu, and Symbol? I don't think so. He is definitely below them. I might even put him below Hyun ATM.


better than hyvaa, drg and symbol easily
soo and soulkey depends on the matchups


Nah. His ZvZ is worse than Hyun. DRG's ZvT is better than Jaedong's. His ZvP is at best even with Soo and Soulkey, same thing for his ZvZ. But his ZvT is much worse than either of them.

You're underrating Symbol and Hyvaa greatly.


Symbol below 50% winrate, hyvaa barely 50% - no further need to mention those two
DRG is better in ONE matchup (1 > 2 or what?)

Symbol also sometimes makes GSL finals/ro8 while Jaedong is losing to theognis in AM challenger.


But he was better in SC:BW, so he's clearly the better SC2 player. Duh...

Use your brain why don't you?
75
Profile Joined December 2012
Germany4057 Posts
October 11 2013 20:17 GMT
#1716
On October 12 2013 05:16 dizzy101 wrote:
Why does this event have so few viewers? Barely 5k.

That's like as many of the 3rd most popular Hearthstone channel right now.

its like 40k
yo twitch, as long as I can watch 480p lagfree I'm happy
Darkhorse
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States23455 Posts
October 11 2013 20:17 GMT
#1717
On October 12 2013 05:16 dizzy101 wrote:
Why does this event have so few viewers? Barely 5k.

That's like as many of the 3rd most popular Hearthstone channel right now.

Its main stream has 30k and the other streams put it over 40k concurrent.
WriterRecently Necro'd (?)
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
October 11 2013 20:17 GMT
#1718
On October 12 2013 05:15 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2013 05:11 stuchiu wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:09 Darkhoarse wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:06 lolfail9001 wrote:
On October 12 2013 05:05 herMan wrote:
No one seems to remember flash's absolute tear at proleague. This community sure has a short memory.

He actually has a lower WR than Innovation at proleague. He was played by Kt almost every game though.

Yes he had a lower win rate than INNOVATION at proleague (by less than .5%) and was only played two more times than Innovation, so that clearly means his record in proleague wasn't that good.


PL was overrated, It was missing the other half of the really good Korean players.


Why does that matter? He still did extremely well against lots of good players. That's like saying "A GSL win is overrated. He didn't even play half the people in the tournament!"


Because the idea of "PL is the highest level of competition in Korea" has stuck around despite the fact that its format and preparation can only be applied to itself. Sure being good at PL is good, but in that case Ryung is actually a god because he kicked the shit out of the GSTL but no one is applying that kind of logic to him.
Moderator
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
October 11 2013 20:17 GMT
#1719
On October 12 2013 05:16 dizzy101 wrote:
Why does this event have so few viewers? Barely 5k.

That's like as many of the 3rd most popular Hearthstone channel right now.


Which stream are you looking at? The ESLTV one has 30k.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Fat_Elephant
Profile Joined May 2013
Angola54 Posts
October 11 2013 20:17 GMT
#1720
Sponsored by RaidCall, indiscriminately banning SC2 accounts like a nerd baller.
I support and use Ad-blocker for this site as matter of convenience and disregard TL's financial responsibilities.
Prev 1 84 85 86 87 88 161 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12h 23m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 347
White-Ra 235
IndyStarCraft 121
UpATreeSC 115
MindelVK 45
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 39047
Calm 2672
Rain 2487
Dewaltoss 129
Backho 51
Leta 44
JulyZerg 22
HiyA 15
ivOry 3
Dota 2
Gorgc5466
qojqva2014
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps944
fl0m841
ScreaM569
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu142
Other Games
FrodaN1443
B2W.Neo645
DeMusliM486
XaKoH 449
crisheroes369
mouzStarbuck185
RotterdaM149
Sick139
C9.Mang082
Trikslyr48
SteadfastSC30
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream15710
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Dystopia_ 0
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
• intothetv
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix9
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2098
• WagamamaTV414
• Ler83
League of Legends
• Nemesis3463
• TFBlade1098
Other Games
• imaqtpie740
• Shiphtur245
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
12h 23m
Classic vs MaxPax
SHIN vs Reynor
herO vs Maru
WardiTV Korean Royale
16h 53m
SC Evo League
17h 23m
IPSL
21h 53m
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
OSC
21h 53m
BSL 21
1d
TerrOr vs Aeternum
HBO vs Kyrie
RSL Revival
1d 12h
Wardi Open
1d 18h
IPSL
2 days
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
BSL 21
2 days
StRyKeR vs Artosis
OyAji vs KameZerg
[ Show More ]
OSC
2 days
OSC
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
LAN Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-16
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.