[ATC] Acer vs Liquid, Week 3, Season 2

On October 03 2013 21:16 ETisME wrote:
so it's basically innovation all kill vs taeja all kill

On October 03 2013 21:16 ETisME wrote:
so it's basically innovation all kill vs taeja all kill

On October 03 2013 22:18 MavivaM wrote:
Ret defense looks so refined.

On October 03 2013 22:20 Ketch wrote:


Yeah? Why is he not walling of? Or am I romanian here?

On October 03 2013 22:20 Ketch wrote:


Yeah? Why is he not walling of? Or am I romanian here?

On October 03 2013 22:23 MavivaM wrote:

I was refering to his natural, when dealing with ling bane: just the right amount of roaches, even between the spots on the mineral line.
After the muta switch, it doesn't look like that anymore.
But before of that... I feel like I learnt something when going roaches in ZvZ!

On October 03 2013 22:42 MavivaM wrote:
It has been a while since I had he opportunity to see my favourite terran... I hope I don't curse him

On October 03 2013 22:43 CrazyBirdman wrote:

Looking good so far!

On October 03 2013 22:58 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Taeja's TvZ is supposedly his weakest matchup... although I guess he said he's regained a lot of his confidence in it so there may not be a real weakness in his game atm

On October 03 2013 23:05 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Preparing for new patch

On October 03 2013 23:05 Amestir wrote:
Paranoid should have just gone for the fight. His army was quite big, I think he could have killed Teaja's army quite easy.

On October 03 2013 23:09 Aeromi wrote:
Nerchio next.

On October 03 2013 23:12 DarkLordOlli wrote:
They're trying really hard to guard Innovation against Taeja

I could see an all in from Nerchio to force the issue

On October 03 2013 23:05 Amestir wrote:
Paranoid should have just gone for the fight. His army was quite big, I think he could have killed Teaja's army quite easy.

On October 03 2013 23:14 Acer.ParanOid wrote:

Prolly, if I only wasnt lagging. I was there to buy the time for Nerchio who came back from university very recently.

On October 03 2013 23:25 NovemberstOrm wrote:
what did nerchio do? fast muta build?

On October 03 2013 23:17 Kaoru wrote:
FYI,

Scarlett & Innovation are not available for this Match, personal issues happened. Zerg Line-up vs TeamTaeja.

On October 03 2013 23:28 Squat wrote:
Taeja down with Nerchion playing, Innovation still in the pool, and possibly Scarlett as well. Looking good for Acer I'd say.

On October 03 2013 23:17 Kaoru wrote:
FYI,

Scarlett & Innovation are not available for this Match, personal issues happened. Zerg Line-up vs TeamTaeja.

On October 03 2013 23:35 NateTron wrote:
I just cant imagine losing to Nerchio

On October 03 2013 23:40 BlackCompany wrote:


It needs more DTs. Much much more DTs

Hero played too many 4v4s, thats where you go DT into Voidrays into more Voidrays

On October 03 2013 23:44 BlackCompany wrote:
Everytime i watch Protoss go basicly only units that are tier 3 they die to roach/hydra

On October 03 2013 23:35 NateTron wrote:
I just cant imagine losing to Nerchio

On October 03 2013 23:47 NovaMB wrote:
Nerchio needs a 4th and 5th base I feel. Or atleast get them while HerO is scared to move out

On October 03 2013 23:47 BlackCompany wrote:


I somehow counted Voidrays as T3, my bad. But Templar, DT, voidray zealot.. you get my point^^

On October 03 2013 23:48 Nerchio wrote:

I need hero to leave the game because it was over after the first attack

On October 03 2013 23:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:


It was over after you got a perfect build counter

On October 03 2013 23:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:


It was over after you got a perfect build counter

On October 03 2013 23:52 Nerchio wrote:

Fanboy detected :D

On October 03 2013 23:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:


It was over after you got a perfect build counter

On October 03 2013 23:55 DarkLordOlli wrote:


Oh it wasn't meant like that. You played it out well from there and deserved the win. It just was the perfect counter build

On October 03 2013 23:55 DarkLordOlli wrote:


Oh it wasn't meant like that. You played it out well from there and deserved the win. It just was the perfect counter build

On October 04 2013 00:02 FeyFey wrote:
And I thought TLO was still on EG.

On October 04 2013 00:03 b0ub0u wrote:
What did Nerchio said before he GGed?

On October 04 2013 00:03 b0ub0u wrote:
What did Nerchio said before he GGed?

On October 04 2013 00:09 metroid composite wrote:
Ok, I was seriously impressed by TLO this game. Often when I watch ZvZ I'm like "yeah, whatever, I do that, just with slower reactions and worse injects at home." But this game I was like "what is this sorcery????"

On October 04 2013 00:18 rave[wcr] wrote:
cant see anything on twitch either.. can watch youtube and forgg's stream just fine too. anyone know what the problem is?

On October 04 2013 00:18 rave[wcr] wrote:
cant see anything on twitch either.. can watch youtube and forgg's stream just fine too. anyone know what the problem is?

taketv: i keep saying its millenium
taketv: but its western wolves
taketv: playing» :D

On October 04 2013 00:27 BlackCompany wrote:
TLO 30 supply down without any real fights..
His gameplan seems really indecisive, like hes not sure what to do

On October 04 2013 00:32 Darkhoarse wrote:
Psh Nerchio beating Taeja and HerO? Flukes.

On October 04 2013 00:33 Bagration wrote:


He's one of the 3 great foreign zergs. First there was Idra, then Nerchio and Stephano.

On October 04 2013 00:34 Darkhoarse wrote:

Scarlett is better than Nerchio.

On October 04 2013 00:35 Bagration wrote:


Maybe, but she has yet to match his achievements.

On October 04 2013 00:36 Aeromi wrote:



WCS NA in 2012, RO4 WCS NA season 2 and RO8 season 2 finals.

On October 04 2013 00:36 Aeromi wrote:



WCS NA in 2012, RO4 WCS NA season 2 and RO8 season 2 finals.

On October 04 2013 00:34 Darkhoarse wrote:

Scarlett is better than Nerchio.

On October 04 2013 00:39 Bagration wrote:


I'm talking about Premier tournament wins. Nerchio won 2 Premier tournaments (Homestory Cup, and Dreamhack Bucharest) and made it to the finals of another one (IEM Cologne). Yes, they aren't very recent, but I was talking more about legacy as opposed to current skill.

If we talk about current skill, Idra and Stephano are sadly irrelevant.

On October 04 2013 00:39 Aeromi wrote:



I don't say that Nerchio is a bad player, I just want to show that Scarlett has good results.

On October 04 2013 00:45 Bagration wrote:
GG Liquid. It's strange how Acer does better against Liquid when they don't use Innovation :p

On October 04 2013 00:46 Darkhoarse wrote:

To be fair in the live setting Taeja demolished MMA as well

On October 04 2013 00:45 Aeromi wrote:
The king of Terran is back.

On October 04 2013 00:35 Bagration wrote:


Maybe, but she has yet to match his achievements.

On October 04 2013 00:48 Bagration wrote:


But in a live setting MMA has also all killed Liquid. Both teams are capable to crushing each other.

But I think one thing is clear: Acer and Liquid are starting to develop a nice little rivalry, and I like it.

On October 04 2013 00:45 Aeromi wrote:
The king of Terran is back.

On October 04 2013 00:51 liberate71 wrote:


When did he all kill them? :o

On October 04 2013 00:50 liberate71 wrote:


Mvp! where!?

On October 04 2013 00:40 Xoronius wrote:

Atm. she possibly is. Sure surely is better than Idra atm.. Still, he (Nerchio) is DH champion, HSC champion, IPL runner-up, IEM runner-up.... Historically Nerchio achieved much more, like Idra and Stephano did, so if you want to call 3 people "the great foreign zerg", it is definitly those three.

On October 04 2013 00:52 Darkhoarse wrote:

In ATC Season 1 Playoffs.

On October 04 2013 00:54 Squat wrote:

Achievements are easily quantified, skill not so much. If we are to determine who is the best player in terms of sheer ability, what matters the most is who you play and how you do against the best players. I struggle to think of a single foreigner other than Nani who can consistently compete with and beat top koreans apart from Scarlett, post Stephano's prime.

On October 04 2013 00:51 Aunvilgod wrote:


Achievements during BL-Infestor can be disregarded.

On October 04 2013 00:53 739 wrote:
lol Nerchio won both TaeJa and HerO, woot.

On October 04 2013 00:57 Musicus wrote:
I wonder when the offline finals will be, with HSC being announced to be November 14-17.

On October 04 2013 00:56 ratbert wrote:


because there weren't other zergs in these tournaments who had the same tools to win, right?

-.-

On October 04 2013 00:56 liberate71 wrote:


Jim(bo Jones)!

On October 04 2013 00:57 AlternativeEgo wrote:


Yeah. He came home from school, put his backpack on the bed, started up his sc2 client, slayed two fierce Koreans and proceeded to take care of his homework. Just another day for the Nerchio.

On October 04 2013 01:00 Aunvilgod wrote:


Because how good you are at Roach vs Roach ZvZ doesn't say a lot about your overall skill. ZvZ was not a very diverse matchup.

On October 04 2013 00:57 Musicus wrote:
I wonder when the offline finals will be, with HSC being announced to be November 14-17.

On October 04 2013 00:54 Squat wrote:

Achievements are easily quantified, skill not so much. If we are to determine who is the best player in terms of sheer ability, what matters the most is who you play and how you do against the best players. I struggle to think of a single foreigner other than Nani who can consistently compete with and beat top koreans apart from Scarlett, post Stephano's prime.

On October 04 2013 01:07 Xoronius wrote:


"Post Stephanos Prime" is exactly the wording, that matters here. If you just look at the current time, Scarlett is up there. If you look at 2010/2011 you will find world class games from Jinro and Idra. I like achievments as a way to determine skill, as they are neutral and not hype-biased. There are people, who are saying for years now, that Major/Illusion would be the best foreign terrans in terms of pure skill, based on watching their streams and there is still nothing to back that up. We can all see, that Scarlett is a top-foreigner at the moment and probably the no.1 zerg (although Nerchio and Vortix are on their way up again), but eventually she will have to turn that into results, if we should name her "great foreign zerg".

On October 04 2013 01:18 Squat wrote:

Results, like being one of two non-koreans to make it past the group stage in the season finals? Like top 4 WCS AM finish? Like winning WCS AM in a clean sweep? She has results, quite a few in fact. Also, recent results, even if they are not wins, trump wins from a year or more ago, especially if the field in those tournaments was not very strong.

I like raw skill as a measurement of skill, can this player consistently hang with the best players, yes or no, that's all I really care about. Winning a smaller, mostly local tourney does not impress me nearly as much as a 0.5 record against top players. Jinro and Idra in their prime would not measure up today. If we are to discuss the best foreign player, it has to be about who actually plays the best Starcraft, not who has more titles.

On October 04 2013 01:28 Bagration wrote:


You're focusing too much on the current and present. Think about if you were to look back 10 years from now, and look at the entire picture, year by year, as opposed to month by month. Who was the best Terran in 2010 in Starcraft 2? It's hard to say, because few people can remember and there was no Terran champion back then (though plenty of Terran GSL finalists).

On October 04 2013 01:34 Squat wrote:

We are talking about who is the best player, not the most accomplished. Nada was the most accomplished brood war player ever, together with flash. He is far from the best.

The present is what matter when we are talking about best. Most accomplished is another matter. Scarlett is better than Jinro/Idra/Huk/etc ever were, even if she has less accomplishments.

On October 04 2013 01:38 Bagration wrote:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentism_(literary_and_historical_analysis)

Read this article, it is quite insightful and pretty relevant to looking at Esports in the long run. Basically, we don't judge players by the standards (IE metagame in this case) of today, but of the standards (metagame) that they were active in.

On October 04 2013 01:48 Squat wrote:

Please don't insult me by linking wiki articles, I've read all that junk. It's nonsense, raw ability is not different because of meta game shifts. Every sports great from 30 years ago would be hopelessly inadequate today, even if they could adapt to modern playstyles(meta) because players are just better. I consider myself intelligent enough to distinguish when a player is clearly superior skill wise.

I simply disagree with you on to measure performance. I actually do judge players by modern standards. I don't think titles, especially old ones, are a good way, and I stand by that.

On October 04 2013 01:48 Squat wrote:

Please don't insult me by linking wiki articles, I've read all that junk. It's nonsense, raw ability is not different because of meta game shifts. Every sports great from 30 years ago would be hopelessly inadequate today, even if they could adapt to modern playstyles(meta) because players are just better. I consider myself intelligent enough to distinguish when a player is clearly superior skill wise.

I simply disagree with you on to measure performance. I actually do judge players by modern standards. I don't think titles, especially old ones, are a good way, and I stand by that.

On October 04 2013 01:57 Bagration wrote:


Sorry for insulting you with Wikipedia. That was really offensive of me

Also, check this article out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronological_snobbery

On October 04 2013 02:37 Xoronius wrote:


Going by logic everyone with an 2600+Elo is a better chess player than Philidor or Steinitz. Going by your logic every Code S zerg now (hyvaa, TRUE, etc.) is better than Fruitdealer.

Ofc. sports evolve, but that is just one more reason, to see stuff in relation. If you could sent Wladimir Klitschko back in time in his current state, he would destroy Joe Louis or George Foreman, but that does not change anything about their deserved legendary status.

On October 04 2013 02:41 Ansinjunger wrote:


It's pleasantly surprising, though humbling as well, to read about the ancient Greeks and find out they were just as smart as us. You could give Plato or Aristotle a primer on the 21st century and they'd be great men in this day.

More importantly, I hope Nerchio enjoyed his after dinner snack of Hero and Taeja before getting indigestion from TLO.