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Northern Ireland25372 Posts
On July 30 2013 23:29 redviper wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 23:08 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 30 2013 22:59 redviper wrote:
Sad thing is that Innovation isn't even crying. MKP would have cried.
That is why its hard to even like Innovation. No emotion IRL and no grace in the game. Tbh you just seem to hate Innovation. Yeah he's not the most charismatic but what does it even mean to say his game has no 'grace'? Its not like I am trying to hide it. You aren't seeing some deep dark secret. I hate Innovation. Because he has none. His games have no grace because they are lacking style and innovation. He is brute force mechanics and no thought.
It's a common misconception that strong mechanical players don't 'think.' Their thought process, and decision making on-the-fly has to feature correct decisions, on correct decisions, especially his famous parade-pushing style in TvZ. You have to priotise what you're doing, and correctly. Pay attention to your drop, or micro your main army, or add production etc etc, if you choose wrong consistently, you lose. There's a reason that even among players who practice an equivalent amount, some are simply better at multitasking and the mechnical side of the game.
I'm intrigued to see what players actually fall under your judgement of acceptability
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On July 30 2013 16:17 Dodgin wrote:
also I look forward to changing my signature to Maru is better than Innovation when I wake up
holy shit rofl
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France9034 Posts
On July 30 2013 23:56 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 16:17 Dodgin wrote:
also I look forward to changing my signature to Maru is better than Innovation when I wake up holy shit rofl
Haha, that's sick.
Next step : "Bomber is the best player in the world".
Okeh ?
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Sure a lot of upsets recently, but this one takes the cake. When I saw the results, I thought I woke up in some topsy-turvey world.
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I did not see that coming, Congratulations Maru! Although if Rain beats Bomber, I can't see Maru beating Rain.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On July 30 2013 23:56 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 16:17 Dodgin wrote:
also I look forward to changing my signature to Maru is better than Innovation when I wake up holy shit rofl
Watch it
It won't take long
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if Maru win OSL, will he become OptimusPrime?
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Northern Ireland25372 Posts
On July 31 2013 00:00 iLevitate wrote:
if Maru win OSL, will he become OptimusPrime?
Will always be Polt :p
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I'm tempted to buy a GSL ticket just to see the look on artosis' face after the 4th game
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On July 30 2013 22:33 redviper wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 22:30 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 30 2013 22:22 redviper wrote:On July 30 2013 22:07 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 30 2013 22:06 redviper wrote:On July 30 2013 21:59 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 30 2013 21:57 redviper wrote:
Innovation is really the best player in the world. Lolololololoooool (can't type enough lolz on tur phone).
And still, I bet he will be number on power rank. Mary read him like a book, opened it up and then burned all the pages. Who is then? Runner-up, winner, Ro4 in the hardest leagues in SC2 innovation has won the grand total of ONE tournament. remember when taeja was unbeatable? Remember when fruitdealer was unbeatable? right now, Maru is a better player. Lucky for innovation that osl bo1 format kept him safe in ro32. Disagree heavily. Maru's TvT may be better, it probably is, but Innovation is still the overall better player. If you wanna go down the tournaments won route, how many has Maru won? I don't think Maru is the best player. I said Maru is a better player right now. Innovation is nowhere near the levels of the hype that people seem to associate to him. He didn't show any innovation (haha) or insight in his matches ever. Yeah he has good mechanics but how has he evolved the metagame? And where did I say that Innovation is the best player? I just said that he's overall better than Maru. Your arguments can be reflected back on Maru. Innovation has better mechanics. So what exactly makes Maru better? He sure as hell isn't the most creative player. He also hasn't evolved the metagame whereas Innovation sure as hell has. People are trying to copy his TvZ and TvP style as we speak. Maru is a lot more creative than Innovation. Even in the old GSTL days where MKP was driving the prime team Maru showed new strats. Hahah though Tasteless jokingly predicted that Maru will 4-0! And I bet you Maru isn't going to be top 3 in the power rank for july.
He doesn't play pro league or any other international tournaments. He won't be in there at all!
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I love this result so much. It illustrates so well how SC2 fans in general see a player do extremely well in two tournaments over a 4 month period and immediately assume that he is invincible. I agree that Innovation had better results prior to this day and that Maru was kind of coming out of nowhere but seriously, you have to start to realize that SC2 is a game that change extremely fast. We haven't had any repeating champion ever in GSL, there is a reason.
So many "No way Maru even wins a game" message to savor now.
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On July 25 2013 17:42 painkilla wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 17:37 Nebuchad wrote:
Well,
Rain vs First => First vs Innovation
Rain vs Bomber => Rain vs Innovation
Supernova vs First isn't really gonna happen so I don't know =)
Supernova vs Bomber => I get to sleep at night instead of waiting for GSL o/ Innovation isn't gonna get a free win from Maru. In a preparation series, brute force player with a well known style like Innovation has a disadvantage. Think MMA vs Mvp. And Maru has more WoL TvT experience. I predicted Maru > Innovation
Well play Maru, he did what I expected him to do (prepare well). It's up to Bomber now. Shouldn't be hard considering Rain just barely able to win against SN.
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On July 31 2013 00:03 ColtraneL wrote:
We haven't had any repeating champion ever in GSL.
....?
Mvp? NesTea? MC? MMA? Life?
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On July 30 2013 22:14 GWdeathscythe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 21:36 lichter wrote:On July 30 2013 21:24 ffadicted wrote:
Ahmahgaaawd I missed this series but sitting here at work going full WHAT THA F
Can anyone give me a summary of the games? No live report :[ Game 1: Banshees by Maru, late turret by Innovation, marine tank banshee all-in by Maru kills Innovation because he isn't scouting trying to defend from the banshees. Game 2: Proxy starport into elevator marine hellion (2 medivacs). Innovation goes Raven first on his Starport because he expects banshees, and then cancels a tank. GG. Game 3: Proxy 2rax vs CC first lol Game 4: Similar openings, but Innovation is too aggressive out on the map and carelessly loses a lot of units. Maru does incredible damage on the counter and just macros to victory, sealing the win with a couple of big drops. So.. Maru cheesed his way into the finals. Sad that Bogus didn't adapt and scout earlier to counter Maru. EDIT: we all know that even Bogus said his TvT is not that good, so it is expected that he fell in that MU.
Lol
Game 1: Inno reacts poorly to scouted banshees and loses too many SCVs. He flips coin to just rebuild his Eco instead of army. Maru punishes him for it with a 1 base push.
Game 2: Inno decides to flip the coin again by going raven first which puts him behind all non cloaked banshee builds. Again, Maru kills him with all-in.
Game 3: Inno flips the coin again with a greedy CC first and gets punished again
Game 4: mirror build and Inno gets out micro'ed
Yes, Maru did go for some coin flip builds. But the same arguement could be made that innovation flipped a few coins himself. He could have scanned in game 1 but he wanted to remain even on Eco with his additional CC. He coin flipped in game 2 with raven build gambling that Maru would go banshees. 14CC is a big gamble in TvT.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On July 31 2013 00:06 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 00:03 ColtraneL wrote:
We haven't had any repeating champion ever in GSL. ....? Mvp? NesTea? MC? MMA? Life?
He means back-to-back
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France9034 Posts
On July 31 2013 00:03 ColtraneL wrote:
I love this result so much. It illustrates so well how SC2 fans in general see a player do extremely well in two tournaments over a 4 month period and immediately assume that he is invincible. I agree that Innovation had better results prior to this day and that Maru was kind of coming out of nowhere but seriously, you have to start to realize that SC2 is a game that change extremely fast. We haven't had any repeating champion ever in GSL, there is a reason.
So many "No way Maru even wins a game" message to savor now.
How is it a problem to consider that a player who looked nearly intouchable for months (and INno looked that way, excepted the GSL finals) is favored over a player that isn't even remotely on the same level before the match ? It's not like Maru has beaten consistently top tier player (like Flash, Soulkey, Life, Rain, etc), while INnovation was busy getting the trophy for the WCS Season 1 finals, the 2nd place for the GSL, carrying STX soul in the proleague against KT and SKT.
It's all about probabilities. Of course INnoVatioN isn't invincible.
But who would you've bet your life on before the match ? INno, or Maru ?
I think very, very few Maru fans would've bet on him, even knowing INno """"""weak"""""" TvT.
It's not always fully black or fully white, y'know ?
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They have to change this game so that normal strong play is more rewarded. It ultimately will destroy the "sport" that no one can consistently win by being a more skilled player - like the bonjwas in BW.
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On July 30 2013 23:37 braller wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 22:22 redviper wrote:On July 30 2013 22:07 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 30 2013 22:06 redviper wrote:On July 30 2013 21:59 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 30 2013 21:57 redviper wrote:
Innovation is really the best player in the world. Lolololololoooool (can't type enough lolz on tur phone).
And still, I bet he will be number on power rank. Mary read him like a book, opened it up and then burned all the pages. Who is then? Runner-up, winner, Ro4 in the hardest leagues in SC2 innovation has won the grand total of ONE tournament. remember when taeja was unbeatable? Remember when fruitdealer was unbeatable? right now, Maru is a better player. Lucky for innovation that osl bo1 format kept him safe in ro32. Disagree heavily. Maru's TvT may be better, it probably is, but Innovation is still the overall better player. If you wanna go down the tournaments won route, how many has Maru won? I don't think Maru is the best player. I said Maru is a better player right now. Innovation is nowhere near the levels of the hype that people seem to associate to him. He didn't show any innovation (haha) or insight in his matches ever. Yeah he has good mechanics but how has he evolved the metagame? Sure he's "boring," but he's also currently at 77.77777% in TvZ and 80% in TvP. Those are both absurd numbers, especially given that he hasn't exactly had many "easy" opponents to pad his numbers.
They are sacrificing him enough victims in proleague Imo. And since the great wcs exodus out of korea, the competition in GSL/OSL has gotten slimmer. The winrate ist still awesome, but the biggest reason is that he is feared in spl and the teams send their strong players against the others of the team.
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On July 31 2013 00:06 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 00:03 ColtraneL wrote:
We haven't had any repeating champion ever in GSL. ....? Mvp? NesTea? MC? MMA? Life?
In a row... Sorry for forgetting this mention.
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On July 31 2013 00:06 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 22:14 GWdeathscythe wrote:On July 30 2013 21:36 lichter wrote:On July 30 2013 21:24 ffadicted wrote:
Ahmahgaaawd I missed this series but sitting here at work going full WHAT THA F
Can anyone give me a summary of the games? No live report :[ Game 1: Banshees by Maru, late turret by Innovation, marine tank banshee all-in by Maru kills Innovation because he isn't scouting trying to defend from the banshees. Game 2: Proxy starport into elevator marine hellion (2 medivacs). Innovation goes Raven first on his Starport because he expects banshees, and then cancels a tank. GG. Game 3: Proxy 2rax vs CC first lol Game 4: Similar openings, but Innovation is too aggressive out on the map and carelessly loses a lot of units. Maru does incredible damage on the counter and just macros to victory, sealing the win with a couple of big drops. So.. Maru cheesed his way into the finals. Sad that Bogus didn't adapt and scout earlier to counter Maru. EDIT: we all know that even Bogus said his TvT is not that good, so it is expected that he fell in that MU. Lol Game 1: Inno reacts poorly to scouted banshees and loses too many SCVs. He flips coin to just rebuild his Eco instead of army. Maru punishes him for it with a 1 base push. Game 2: Inno decides to flip the coin again by going raven first which puts him behind all non cloaked banshee builds. Again, Maru kills him with all-in. Game 3: Inno flips the coin again with a greedy CC first and gets punished again Game 4: mirror build and Inno gets out micro'ed Yes, Maru did go for some coin flip builds. But the same arguement could be made that innovation flipped a few coins himself. He could have scanned in game 1 but he wanted to remain even on Eco with his additional CC. He coin flipped in game 2 with raven build gambling that Maru would go banshees. 14CC is a big gamble in TvT.
to be fair with innovation, it's very uncommon to go gas first into marine/hellion/medivac. He anticipated cloak banshees after he scouted gas first and got surprised big time. This can happen.
to go cc first while 2rax reaper builds are still somewhat around in the metagame (at least in europe) on the other hand, is plain stupid. because it doesn't need a proxy 2rax to punish it. it could be proxy marauders or a mentioned reaper pressure.
EDIT: but to deny his status as one of the best players in the world (to me there is never THE best player: only a group of top notch players above the rest, who can beat themselves on a regular basis.) after just this series is also very dumb. He remains his quality and power. noone should deny that.
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EPT
