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On June 29 2012 09:54 SeeKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 08:24 Kharnage wrote:On June 29 2012 03:06 SeeKeR wrote:On June 29 2012 03:03 uLaLuLaLume wrote:
I think Seeker should stop providing these game 'recaps' and his own subjective ratings in the recommended section. Not only are they biased (in favor of Terran, go figure), but they're also somewhat of a spoiler, and a lot of people simply wish to know which games are most worth watching without knowing what to expect beforehand. Today my recaps were retarded because I was angry I admit that. But all my other ones I take care in writing them. I always make sure nothing is spoiled. I apologize for today's recaps, but it won't happen again. But in order for me to improve, please post the ones where you felt like I spoiled something. I will work on those and make sure it doesn't happen again Seeker. You are awesome.That is all. Haha. Thank you very much ^^ Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 09:24 uLaLuLaLume wrote:On June 29 2012 03:06 SeeKeR wrote:On June 29 2012 03:03 uLaLuLaLume wrote:
I think Seeker should stop providing these game 'recaps' and his own subjective ratings in the recommended section. Not only are they biased (in favor of Terran, go figure), but they're also somewhat of a spoiler, and a lot of people simply wish to know which games are most worth watching without knowing what to expect beforehand. Today my recaps were retarded because I was angry I admit that. But all my other ones I take care in writing them. I always make sure nothing is spoiled. I apologize for today's recaps, but it won't happen again. But in order for me to improve, please post the ones where you felt like I spoiled something. I will work on those and make sure it doesn't happen again In reference to your own subjective ratings; they bear no relevance. Ultimately, an objective game rating is desired, and the polls bring us as close as humanly possible to said desired objectivity status. In reference to which recaps were spoilers; imo, they're all spoilers. Imo, even the remotest hint at how, strategically, a game was played out (quality aside) is a spoiler. I want the game I'm about to watch to be a surprise in every sense of the term (besides knowing beforehand, owing to the polls, that it's going to be a gg). I am confident that there are many others like myself who try not to read your recaps whilst looking at the polls. Don't get me wrong, however; I truly appreciate the effort you put into these threads. I understand what you are saying. Unfortunately, there isn't much I can do about that. I guess the only way to avoid that would be to just post the polls themselves and no recap. But I often feel that polls do not do the game justice. Most polls seems to have answers purely based on whether or not their favorite player lost or won. And that often leads to inaccurate polls that will deprive ppl of watching good games. That's why I add my recaps. I let my readers decided whether or not the game is worth watching or not. Granted, I often slip up and let my own bias get the best of me, but I do really try hard to write these recaps as non objective as possible.
You could always spoiler the recaps and leave it up to the reader whether to open them.
I can see both sides of this - personally I agree with Kharnage but I suspect some people would agree with you. It would be nice to cater for both views.
Also, second the awesome comment.  Especially for the many times you have been the lone voice of LR in one of these threads.
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I was reading LR last night, so this morning I went to watch Game 2 of MC v Squirtle.
Oh man I was not disappointed haha.
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On June 29 2012 10:50 tdt wrote:
Because MC is best player in the world. That's right over DRG MVP and all the rest. He plays a very underrepresented race and dominates. It's no accident he was picked almost last and players made thier fear known dispite crappy GSL results last year.
I think MC is up there and you have a right to your opinion...That is a bold statement. MC is one of the best I will say that for sure...The best player in the world overall...I would have to give that title to the reigning four time champion MVP...For this current year I would have to give it up to DRG. Though wouldn't it be cool if MC vs DRG finals happened O_O;..
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Can someone translate what MKP is saying here?
이정훈 @MKPS2
정찰해두 테란 생더블로 저그 노스포삼햇 못죽입니다..
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How is MVP the best player in the world? Last season's GSL was his only accomplishment this year, and it's almost July. Though I don't condone his cheeses, he basically showed no awe-dropping skill to get his 3rd title (WC not counted). MC has won the most tournys this year while I agree MC is not the undisputed best player, he is definitely better than MVP.
Also what is up with labeling MC all innish? He all inned in game 2 vs MKP out of 5 sets today. He only all inned today as a result of punishing a 14cc in antiga. When MVP did this against HerO in blizz cup MVP was praised with "nice strategy!" all over the LR. Damn terran bias, your whining is annoying in itself but with bias it becomes too much sometimes
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On June 29 2012 12:14 power-overwhelming wrote:
How is MVP the best player in the world? Last season's GSL was his only accomplishment this year, and it's almost July. Though I don't condone his cheeses, he basically showed no awe-dropping skill to get his 3rd title (WC not counted). MC has won the most tournys this year while I agree MC is not the undisputed best player, he is definitely better than MVP.
Also what is up with labeling MC all innish? He all inned in game 2 vs MKP out of 5 sets today. He only all inned today as a result of punishing a 14cc in antiga. When MVP did this against HerO in blizz cup MVP was praised with "nice strategy!" all over the LR. Damn terran bias, your whining is annoying in itself but with bias it becomes too much sometimes
Whining about whining isn't conducive now.
But let's look at it: "Why is MVP the best player in the world?" comes down to the fact that, as far as accomplishments go, MVP has the strongest accomplishments. Sure, MC has more wins overall given all the foreign money he likes to take, and sure MC is our Protoss president, but MVP's dominance doesn't vanish so easily. It's definitely not the year of MVP, but how long do you wait until you undoubtedly crown someone as the new "best player in the world?".
Is it now Taeja? Is it DRG? Is it Symbol?
I mean, really people were basically saying that last season Parting, Squirtle and Naniwa were the best players in the world, and then MVP beat them so for a bit people would still blame cheese.
And yet there goes Squirtle and Parting from this seasons GSL. Sooooooo?
"Best player in the world" is a silly thing, too subjective since everyone has their own qualitative aspects. I mean, in my opinion it's between MVP and DRG currently. You sure can make an argument for MC, but in my eyes he's had too many mediocre placings in the last few months.
Answer is: if there's ever an undisputed "best player in the world" it's actually a huge thing. MVP in spring (autumn for Northern Hemisphere) 2011 was it and no-one is yet to dominate as much since.
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On June 29 2012 11:30 dgwow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 10:50 tdt wrote:
Because MC is best player in the world. That's right over DRG MVP and all the rest. He plays a very underrepresented race and dominates. It's no accident he was picked almost last and players made thier fear known dispite crappy GSL results last year. I lol'd. Protoss is pretty well represented in Code S at the moment.. anyways I'd be happy if he gets far as long as he doesn't do all-ins every second game! You don't get to see many MC macro games
He's probably more referring to how there's no Toss consistently winning big events besides MC. I mean, look at sc2earnings. In the 10 top earners, there's only one Protoss player, and that's MC. Not to mention that he might have overtaken MVP in earnings now (not sure how much more you get for making Ro8 in code S compared to Ro16). Oh, and he's also the only Toss player to actually win a GSL, and he's done it twice. Meanwhile we have 7 Terran GSL wins between MVP, Jjakji, Polt, and MMA, while 5 Zerg wins between FruitDealer, Nestea, and DRG.
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On June 29 2012 12:35 bittman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:14 power-overwhelming wrote:
How is MVP the best player in the world? Last season's GSL was his only accomplishment this year, and it's almost July. Though I don't condone his cheeses, he basically showed no awe-dropping skill to get his 3rd title (WC not counted). MC has won the most tournys this year while I agree MC is not the undisputed best player, he is definitely better than MVP.
Also what is up with labeling MC all innish? He all inned in game 2 vs MKP out of 5 sets today. He only all inned today as a result of punishing a 14cc in antiga. When MVP did this against HerO in blizz cup MVP was praised with "nice strategy!" all over the LR. Damn terran bias, your whining is annoying in itself but with bias it becomes too much sometimes Whining about whining isn't conducive now. But let's look at it: "Why is MVP the best player in the world?" comes down to the fact that, as far as accomplishments go, MVP has the strongest accomplishments. Sure, MC has more wins overall given all the foreign money he likes to take, and sure MC is our Protoss president, but MVP's dominance doesn't vanish so easily. It's definitely not the year of MVP, but how long do you wait until you undoubtedly crown someone as the new "best player in the world?". Is it now Taeja? Is it DRG? Is it Symbol? I mean, really people were basically saying that last season Parting, Squirtle and Naniwa were the best players in the world, and then MVP beat them so for a bit people would still blame cheese. And yet there goes Squirtle and Parting from this seasons GSL. Sooooooo? "Best player in the world" is a silly thing, too subjective since everyone has their own qualitative aspects. I mean, in my opinion it's between MVP and DRG currently. You sure can make an argument for MC, but in my eyes he's had too many mediocre placings in the last few months. Answer is: if there's ever an undisputed "best player in the world" it's actually a huge thing. MVP in spring (autumn for Northern Hemisphere) 2011 was it and no-one is yet to dominate as much since.
Lol.. i know its subjective, but there are reasons for subjectivity. How exactly is it between MVP and DRG for you? MVP has only one win this year. MKP didn't win a GSL but he won multiple MLGs same with DRG + a GSL. No one labeled Parting and Naniwa as best players lol, they are both weak to zergs.
Just because MVP won last GSL doesn't make him ahead of MKP, DRG, and MC. He cheesed his way to the finals. He did nothing of the sort to make him a better PvTer than say MKP or Polt.
I know there is no "best player in the world right now", even then there wasn't. MVP's TvP was never tested but his TvT and TvZ were good enough to win him championships. But as of right now, MVP is not even top 5. People like MKP, DRG, Symbol, MC and some new breeds are better than him.
I don't understand how his performance last season can even equate to being good it was all cheese. I don't even have anything against with how he won, but to say that he is the best along with DRG because he won a GSL is ridiculous.
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On June 29 2012 13:55 power-overwhelming wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:35 bittman wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 power-overwhelming wrote:
How is MVP the best player in the world? Last season's GSL was his only accomplishment this year, and it's almost July. Though I don't condone his cheeses, he basically showed no awe-dropping skill to get his 3rd title (WC not counted). MC has won the most tournys this year while I agree MC is not the undisputed best player, he is definitely better than MVP.
Also what is up with labeling MC all innish? He all inned in game 2 vs MKP out of 5 sets today. He only all inned today as a result of punishing a 14cc in antiga. When MVP did this against HerO in blizz cup MVP was praised with "nice strategy!" all over the LR. Damn terran bias, your whining is annoying in itself but with bias it becomes too much sometimes Whining about whining isn't conducive now. But let's look at it: "Why is MVP the best player in the world?" comes down to the fact that, as far as accomplishments go, MVP has the strongest accomplishments. Sure, MC has more wins overall given all the foreign money he likes to take, and sure MC is our Protoss president, but MVP's dominance doesn't vanish so easily. It's definitely not the year of MVP, but how long do you wait until you undoubtedly crown someone as the new "best player in the world?". Is it now Taeja? Is it DRG? Is it Symbol? I mean, really people were basically saying that last season Parting, Squirtle and Naniwa were the best players in the world, and then MVP beat them so for a bit people would still blame cheese. And yet there goes Squirtle and Parting from this seasons GSL. Sooooooo? "Best player in the world" is a silly thing, too subjective since everyone has their own qualitative aspects. I mean, in my opinion it's between MVP and DRG currently. You sure can make an argument for MC, but in my eyes he's had too many mediocre placings in the last few months. Answer is: if there's ever an undisputed "best player in the world" it's actually a huge thing. MVP in spring (autumn for Northern Hemisphere) 2011 was it and no-one is yet to dominate as much since. Lol.. i know its subjective, but there are reasons for subjectivity. How exactly is it between MVP and DRG for you? MVP has only one win this year. MKP didn't win a GSL but he won multiple MLGs same with DRG + a GSL. No one labeled Parting and Naniwa as best players lol, they are both weak to zergs. Just because MVP won last GSL doesn't make him ahead of MKP, DRG, and MC. He cheesed his way to the finals. He did nothing of the sort to make him a better PvTer than say MKP or Polt. I know there is no "best player in the world right now", even then there wasn't. MVP's TvP was never tested but his TvT and TvZ were good enough to win him championships. But as of right now, MVP is not even top 5. People like MKP, DRG, Symbol, MC and some new breeds are better than him. I don't understand how his performance last season can even equate to being good it was all cheese. I don't even have anything against with how he won, but to say that he is the best along with DRG because he won a GSL is ridiculous.
How is cheese not a legitimate indication of a player's skill if he actually has results by utilising cheese? What if you are the best in the world at macro but can't get far in tournaments because you don't cheese? Does that mean your the best player in the world with no results?
Based on accomplishments, MVP is indeed the best players in SC2 so far. Maybe not the current best player though.
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On June 28 2012 22:09 La1 wrote:
it would be 2-2 in extended series right now .. i still dont like the wya the group system works in gsl..
Wow I never thought I'd hear anyone say that, I didn't think anyone actually liked extended series. It's horribly unfair and theres a reason why its not standard tournament format. GSL uses the standard tournament format, the only tournament that uses extended series is the one that invented it, MLG.
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On June 29 2012 14:49 Disastorm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 22:09 La1 wrote:
it would be 2-2 in extended series right now .. i still dont like the wya the group system works in gsl..
Wow I never thought I'd hear anyone say that, I didn't think anyone actually liked extended series. It's horribly unfair and theres a reason why its not standard tournament format. GSL uses the standard tournament format, the only tournament that uses extended series is the one that invented it, MLG.
Just to play devil's advocate, the standard argument against extended series is that the loser's bracket player already has to play more games. That doesn't apply in GSL.
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Overall the best player in the world right now has to go to either MC, DRG, or MKP. They've all been putting up results in foreign tournaments, while Mvp has stayed in Korea with the exception of a couple MLG arenas .
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On June 29 2012 14:59 Havik_ wrote:
Overall the best player in the world right now has to go to either MC, DRG, or MKP. They've all been putting up results in foreign tournaments, while Mvp has stayed in Korea with the exception of a couple MLG arenas .
I refuse to name a best player in the world who is unable to win a GSL. Until he does, MKP is, in my opinion, ineligible for best player in the world. The reason is simple, GSL is the toughest and most important SC2 tournament in the world, and it shows the mettle and discipline of true champions.
MC showed us in this group that when everyone thinks he's down, he can show some amazing performances. His play in Game 2 vs Squirtle was champion stuff, and you need that kind of mentality to be the best in the world.
MVP, MC, NesTea, DRG, MMA. These players gather these qualities, and couple them with skill in the diverse areas involved in SC2, each with their own strengths and weaknesses, but these are the players I think about when I try and picture the best in the world, thinking from a "historical" point of view.
If I had to pick someone for this moment right now, I'd take DRG.
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On June 29 2012 14:05 poorcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 13:55 power-overwhelming wrote:On June 29 2012 12:35 bittman wrote:On June 29 2012 12:14 power-overwhelming wrote:
How is MVP the best player in the world? Last season's GSL was his only accomplishment this year, and it's almost July. Though I don't condone his cheeses, he basically showed no awe-dropping skill to get his 3rd title (WC not counted). MC has won the most tournys this year while I agree MC is not the undisputed best player, he is definitely better than MVP.
Also what is up with labeling MC all innish? He all inned in game 2 vs MKP out of 5 sets today. He only all inned today as a result of punishing a 14cc in antiga. When MVP did this against HerO in blizz cup MVP was praised with "nice strategy!" all over the LR. Damn terran bias, your whining is annoying in itself but with bias it becomes too much sometimes Whining about whining isn't conducive now. But let's look at it: "Why is MVP the best player in the world?" comes down to the fact that, as far as accomplishments go, MVP has the strongest accomplishments. Sure, MC has more wins overall given all the foreign money he likes to take, and sure MC is our Protoss president, but MVP's dominance doesn't vanish so easily. It's definitely not the year of MVP, but how long do you wait until you undoubtedly crown someone as the new "best player in the world?". Is it now Taeja? Is it DRG? Is it Symbol? I mean, really people were basically saying that last season Parting, Squirtle and Naniwa were the best players in the world, and then MVP beat them so for a bit people would still blame cheese. And yet there goes Squirtle and Parting from this seasons GSL. Sooooooo? "Best player in the world" is a silly thing, too subjective since everyone has their own qualitative aspects. I mean, in my opinion it's between MVP and DRG currently. You sure can make an argument for MC, but in my eyes he's had too many mediocre placings in the last few months. Answer is: if there's ever an undisputed "best player in the world" it's actually a huge thing. MVP in spring (autumn for Northern Hemisphere) 2011 was it and no-one is yet to dominate as much since. Lol.. i know its subjective, but there are reasons for subjectivity. How exactly is it between MVP and DRG for you? MVP has only one win this year. MKP didn't win a GSL but he won multiple MLGs same with DRG + a GSL. No one labeled Parting and Naniwa as best players lol, they are both weak to zergs. Just because MVP won last GSL doesn't make him ahead of MKP, DRG, and MC. He cheesed his way to the finals. He did nothing of the sort to make him a better PvTer than say MKP or Polt. I know there is no "best player in the world right now", even then there wasn't. MVP's TvP was never tested but his TvT and TvZ were good enough to win him championships. But as of right now, MVP is not even top 5. People like MKP, DRG, Symbol, MC and some new breeds are better than him. I don't understand how his performance last season can even equate to being good it was all cheese. I don't even have anything against with how he won, but to say that he is the best along with DRG because he won a GSL is ridiculous. How is cheese not a legitimate indication of a player's skill if he actually has results by utilising cheese? What if you are the best in the world at macro but can't get far in tournaments because you don't cheese? Does that mean your the best player in the world with no results? Based on accomplishments, MVP is indeed the best players in SC2 so far. Maybe not the current best player though.
Accomplishments from this year? MVP is not even top 5 like I said. We don't base people's achievement from last year in this kinda argument. That was my whole point. Cheese is not a legitimate indication of players skill. If so then that proves my point in bias as most protosses (MC especially) get labeled as skilless and only won 2 GSLs from all inning/cheese. Of course MVP gets special treatment for that. Terrans usually do lol
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DRG is the top player at the moment I guess, but it's pretty hard to say for sure as there's no one dominant player and MVP is easily the best player of all-time
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On June 29 2012 10:30 neoghaleon55 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 10:26 Lunchador wrote:
MC vs Squirtle.
Games taken through sheer force of will. I am so awed! Force of will! My friends and I watched game 2 live...our jaws dropped.... "how on earth did he..." o_O
Utter insanity. That game 2 man...I was all set to be sad about Squirtle's monstrous PvP and his subsequent 2-0 advancement, but somehow, SOMEHOW, MC just came out on top there. Total bossmode.
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On June 29 2012 12:04 neoghaleon55 wrote:Can someone translate what MKP is saying here?
Even if you scout it, there's no way for Terran to beat two hatch before pool if you go CC first
(생더블 is usually used for Protoss 15 Nex builds, but I assume it means CC first when it refers to Terran)
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MKP out again? The GSL albatross continues to hang around his neck it seems.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On June 29 2012 15:15 power-overwhelming wrote:
Accomplishments from this year? MVP is not even top 5 like I said. We don't base people's achievement from last year in this kinda argument. That was my whole point. Cheese is not a legitimate indication of players skill. If so then that proves my point in bias as most protosses (MC especially) get labeled as skilless and only won 2 GSLs from all inning/cheese. Of course MVP gets special treatment for that. Terrans usually do lol
The most "objective" (I put it in quotation marks, because even deciding on what measure to use is certainly subjective) way to identify the supposed best player in the world is to see who wins the most important, most difficult, and most respected tournament available. Currently, that tournament is the GSL (sorry MLG fans, hard to argue with this). Even if you win a handful of MLGs, no reign sounds legitimate without a GSL title. When Mvp won last season's GSL, he was the best player at the time. It doesn't matter how he won; he was the champion, and beat the 3 best players in his weakest matchup, in arguably their best matchups. However, after his defeat the other day, Mvp is no longer the best player. That title is once again up for grabs.
Sheesh guys lighten up
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The most skilled player in the world, as of right now, is undoubtedly DRG.
As for Protoss, MC can win when no other Protoss can in situations when every other Protoss would roll over and die. At the same time, he can still lose to pretty much anyone in Code S/A. I don't know how people can deny that he is the best Protoss at the moment, in terms of skill (game 2 Squirtle vs MC) or accomplishments (having more prize money than the next 5 Protoss players combined).
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EPT
